oski003 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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oski003 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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oski003 said:

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Shouldn't it somewhat mitigate the police's ignoring of George Floyd's cries that he couldn't breathe if he said he couldn't breathe earlier in the arrest? Wouldn't this either help prove that either something else was keeping him from breathing or he was crying wolf about the can't breathe claims?

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It's literally the opposite. Google "eggshell rule" if you've never heard of it. You don't get to kill or injure someone and then say "but if they were stronger and healthier it wouldn't have happened or been as bad." Police are no different, as much as they--and you--would like them to be treated differently. If anything, Floyd's prior claims put Chauvin on actual notice that he had breathing issues. It made the use of MRT even more unreasonable because he posed even less of a threat. For everyone except RWNJs this video just makes the case against Chauvin stronger.

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A manslaughter verdict is fine. Yes, officers are duty bound to deal with an arrestee as they find them. However, before we burn apart cities, we should properly report that Floyd had a previous recent lawful arrest where he had dangerously high blood pressure after swallowing drugs to conceal them AND he had dangerous amounts of fentanyl and other drugs in his system during this arrest AND George Floyd was 6'4 225 pounds.

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So many dog whistles damn. Very sad and disturbing post. You should be ashamed.

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That says more about you than me.

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The **** it does. You're pathetic.

oski003 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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oski003 said:

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Shouldn't it somewhat mitigate the police's ignoring of George Floyd's cries that he couldn't breathe if he said he couldn't breathe earlier in the arrest? Wouldn't this either help prove that either something else was keeping him from breathing or he was crying wolf about the can't breathe claims?

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It's literally the opposite. Google "eggshell rule" if you've never heard of it. You don't get to kill or injure someone and then say "but if they were stronger and healthier it wouldn't have happened or been as bad." Police are no different, as much as they--and you--would like them to be treated differently. If anything, Floyd's prior claims put Chauvin on actual notice that he had breathing issues. It made the use of MRT even more unreasonable because he posed even less of a threat. For everyone except RWNJs this video just makes the case against Chauvin stronger.

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A manslaughter verdict is fine. Yes, officers are duty bound to deal with an arrestee as they find them. However, before we burn apart cities, we should properly report that Floyd had a previous recent lawful arrest where he had dangerously high blood pressure after swallowing drugs to conceal them AND he had dangerous amounts of fentanyl and other drugs in his system during this arrest AND George Floyd was 6'4 225 pounds.

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Did the officers know about the previous arrest as they were dealing with Floyd? If they didn't, as was likely the case, then it's irrelevant to analyzing how the officers treated (or mistreated) Floyd. If nothing else, they should have call for paramedics if he was unable to breathe.

oski003 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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oski003 said:

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Shouldn't it somewhat mitigate the police's ignoring of George Floyd's cries that he couldn't breathe if he said he couldn't breathe earlier in the arrest? Wouldn't this either help prove that either something else was keeping him from breathing or he was crying wolf about the can't breathe claims?

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It's literally the opposite. Google "eggshell rule" if you've never heard of it. You don't get to kill or injure someone and then say "but if they were stronger and healthier it wouldn't have happened or been as bad." Police are no different, as much as they--and you--would like them to be treated differently. If anything, Floyd's prior claims put Chauvin on actual notice that he had breathing issues. It made the use of MRT even more unreasonable because he posed even less of a threat. For everyone except RWNJs this video just makes the case against Chauvin stronger.

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A manslaughter verdict is fine. Yes, officers are duty bound to deal with an arrestee as they find them. However, before we burn apart cities, we should properly report that Floyd had a previous recent lawful arrest where he had dangerously high blood pressure after swallowing drugs to conceal them AND he had dangerous amounts of fentanyl and other drugs in his system during this arrest AND George Floyd was 6'4 225 pounds.

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Just couple of things:

• The actions that were taken by the officers were eminently dangerous to human life. It doesn't matter whether the victim was vulnerable or not. If anything, engaging in such action to a person who is vulnerable is an aggravating factor and not a mitigating factor.
• The only time to engage in such behavior is if the officers felt their lives or someone else's life was in danger. They had no reason to believe anyone's life other than Floyd was in danger.
• Even if Floyd were an angel (which is not a requirement to not be abused by the police), people should not burn down buildings and create more victims. You don't rage against victimhood by creating more victims. Everyone is accountable, including the police and the rioters. It makes me sick to my stomach that people justify criminals on either side.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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oski003 said:

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Shouldn't it somewhat mitigate the police's ignoring of George Floyd's cries that he couldn't breathe if he said he couldn't breathe earlier in the arrest? Wouldn't this either help prove that either something else was keeping him from breathing or he was crying wolf about the can't breathe claims?

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It's literally the opposite. Google "eggshell rule" if you've never heard of it. You don't get to kill or injure someone and then say "but if they were stronger and healthier it wouldn't have happened or been as bad." Police are no different, as much as they--and you--would like them to be treated differently. If anything, Floyd's prior claims put Chauvin on actual notice that he had breathing issues. It made the use of MRT even more unreasonable because he posed even less of a threat. For everyone except RWNJs this video just makes the case against Chauvin stronger.

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A manslaughter verdict is fine. Yes, officers are duty bound to deal with an arrestee as they find them. However, before we burn apart cities, we should properly report that Floyd had a previous recent lawful arrest where he had dangerously high blood pressure after swallowing drugs to conceal them AND he had dangerous amounts of fentanyl and other drugs in his system during this arrest AND George Floyd was 6'4 225 pounds.

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Did the officers know about the previous arrest as they were dealing with Floyd? If they didn't, as was likely the case, then it's irrelevant to analyzing how the officers treated (or mistreated) Floyd. If nothing else, they should have call for paramedics if he was unable to breathe.

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Yes, they certainly could have done a better job. I believe they thought he was uncooperative and high on drugs.

WalterSobchak said:

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calbear93 said:

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It makes me sick to my stomach that people justify criminals on either side.

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I've never seen anyone on this board defend the looters and rioters. I have seen many examples of people on this board say or imply, as 003 does above, that people who didn't loot or riot are responsible for the ones who did.

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You simultaneously believe that people who didn't loot or riot (the media fanning flames) cannot be responsible for those who did, yet also blame Trump for J6. Doesn't it appear that there are holes in your logic?

dajo9 said:

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oski003 said:

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AunBear89 said:

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oski003 said:

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If posters on this board state inaccurate information on Alito

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Inaccurate according to whom? You? Your opinion is noted. Do you have facts to support your position? Perhaps you should present support for your counter argument before demanding same from others.

oski003 said:

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is asking them to explain their inaccurate information a form of fake questioning?

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Yes. If you aren't willing to first explain why you feel it is inaccurate, than all you are doing is deflecting. Third grade debate tactics - your only tool in your kit.

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Seriously, you all think a Federal Supreme Court Justice made abortion illegal in certain states? Have you ever taken a civics course?

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The job of the Supreme Court is to protect people's rights.

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Due to its power of judicial review, it plays an essential role in ensuring that each branch of government recognizes the limits of its own power. Doing this, it protects civil rights and liberties by striking down laws that violate the Constitution.

To be clear, being one of the SC Justices ruling that abortion is not an absolute right protected by the Constitution, does not

"Control other people's wives" nor "Control their Reproductive Systems" nor even "deny them their rights."

...

WalterSobchak said:

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calbear93 said:

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It makes me sick to my stomach that people justify criminals on either side.

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I've never seen anyone on this board defend the looters and rioters. I have seen many examples of people on this board say or imply, as 003 does above, that people who didn't loot or riot are responsible for the ones who did.

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You definitely were not here during the rioting.

There was a majority of folks here who were claiming that rioters were protesters and were justified.

We need to stop excusing people for their bad behavior but we need to treat them as equals by expecting accountability from all, both the cops and criminals.

George Floyd should be alive. He deserved so much more.

Today, I join all those who loved him and all those touched by the civil rights movement he inspired in remembering the tragedy and injustice of his death.

He changed the world.

Now, let's act in his memory. pic.twitter.com/uPSCkxFMRs

— President Biden (@POTUS) May 25, 2024

At least he died doing what he loved, overdosing on fentanyl. Now he's one of Biden's heroes.

calbear93 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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calbear93 said:

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It makes me sick to my stomach that people justify criminals on either side.

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I've never seen anyone on this board defend the looters and rioters. I have seen many examples of people on this board say or imply, as 003 does above, that people who didn't loot or riot are responsible for the ones who did.

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You definitely were not here during the rioting.

There was a majority of folks here who were claiming that rioters were protesters and were justified.

We need to stop excusing people for their bad behavior but we need to treat them as equals by expecting accountability from all, both the cops and criminals.

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I definitely was here. People were correctly pointing out the fact that the vast majority of protestors didn't loot or riot. That's not the same thing.

bear2034 said:

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At least he died doing what he loved, overdosing on fentanyl. Now he's one of Biden's heroes.

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More dog whistles. You must feel so proud!

bear2034 said:

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George Floyd should be alive. He deserved so much more.

Today, I join all those who loved him and all those touched by the civil rights movement he inspired in remembering the tragedy and injustice of his death.

He changed the world.

Now, let's act in his memory. pic.twitter.com/uPSCkxFMRs

— President Biden (@POTUS) May 25, 2024

At least he died doing what he loved, overdosing on fentanyl. Now he's one of Biden's heroes.

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I agree with the first two sentences. The rest is just roll your eyes pandering and just inauthentic bull**** politician speak.

What inspired change was people being tired of bad behavior by the police.

It is not a heroic act to be a victim, no more than it was a heroic act by victims who are continuing to be victimized by criminals in Oakland.

But their victimhood can cause people to rise up and demand change.

WalterSobchak said:

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calbear93 said:

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WalterSobchak said:

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calbear93 said:

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It makes me sick to my stomach that people justify criminals on either side.

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I've never seen anyone on this board defend the looters and rioters. I have seen many examples of people on this board say or imply, as 003 does above, that people who didn't loot or riot are responsible for the ones who did.

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You definitely were not here during the rioting.

There was a majority of folks here who were claiming that rioters were protesters and were justified.

We need to stop excusing people for their bad behavior but we need to treat them as equals by expecting accountability from all, both the cops and criminals.

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I definitely was here. People were correctly pointing out the fact that the vast majority of protestors didn't loot or riot. That's not the same thing.

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That's almost gaslighting. I was extremely supportive of the protesters. I was not supportive of looting.

Most of the conversation I had was about the looters and rioters. I even had a tough back and forth with a poster I otherwise respected very much (Oaktownbear) because he wrote that rioting and looting was a form of protest. Also had very confrontational discussion with another poster I respect (U2sucks) on whether rioting is justifiable.

I didn't see those conversations. I saw what I described. I wasn't accusing you of not supporting protestors.

WalterSobchak said:

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I didn't see those conversations. I saw what I described. I wasn't accusing you of not supporting protestors.

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That's fair. We tend to focus on posts that directly involve our specific conversation instead of reading the often misinformed opinion of every Joe Schmoe (or calbear93 schmoe) who thinks his/her opinion is important.

So, with respect to the conversations that I had at the time, the debate I had were three topics that did become heated (i) trying to separate legitimate protestors (in a legal, 1st amendment protected manner) and looters vs, whether in the face of such great injustice, they should be treated the same, (ii) whether any amount of anger justifies creating more victims in your own neighborhood of people who had nothing to do with what you are protesting (other than they live in America), and (iii) whether the medical field harmed their credibility by making their advice political and saying protesting is safe while saying outdoor funeral for a loved one should be prohibited and then saying racism is a health issue vs a critical and just as important social and dignity issue.

Maybe we both need to be humble and recognize that what I saw was different from what you saw and avoid overarching statement as if our perspective constituted the totality of everyone's experience. I mean that for both of us.