Anybody disagree with me? If you do, why? (25 points)

You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

Why would anyone blame Trump? According to the ministry of truth, he didn't want to pull out of Afghanistan.

BREAKING: The Republican Party has deleted a page from their website that pointed out that Trump wanted to pull out of Afghanistan.

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) August 15, 2021

MinotStateBeav said:

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You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

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S the taliban has taken over ...but...you'll still get your favorite beer and have your house where you have a PC to continue to post here to foster consternation for some sick reason among fellow Cal football fans?

Blueblood said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

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S the taliban has taken over ....you're still get your favorite beer and have your house where you have a PC to continue to post here to foster consternation for some sick reason?

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Hunter Biden is the smartest guy Biden knows. That's why we are where we are.

Blueblood...Your statement disqualifies you from a first-grade seminar on politics and honest discussion. Lame is not the word for your point..

MinotStateBeav said:

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You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

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If the media was leftist, they wouldn't have done George W. Bush's bidding from 2001 through 2003.

The media is pro-military and pro-military industrial complex. Because those are their main sources. What, they are going to rely on the other side? A lot of people have made a lot of money by prolonging this war. It's in their interest to keep it going.

Afghanistan might have gone a lot better if the US had focused on that instead of invading Iraq for no reason.

okaydo said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

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If the media was leftist, they wouldn't have done George W. Bush's bidding from 2001 through 2003.

The media is pro-military and pro-military industrial complex. Because those are their main sources. What, they are going to rely on the other side? A lot of people have made a lot of money by prolonging this war. It's in their interest to keep it going.

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If you read what I wrote, I didn't call "The Media" leftist.

dimitrig said:

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Afghanistan might have gone a lot better if the US had focused on that instead of invading Iraq for no reason.

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Eh, not sure how that would have made a difference. We accomplished our objectives a long time ago and couldn't make Afghanistan stand on their own. The Afghan military is bigger and had more resources than the Taliban but couldn't even hold the country for a week. Hard to imagine what we would have had to have done differently in order to achieve a different outcome without continuing a military presence for decades into the future.

Unit2Sucks said:

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dimitrig said:

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Afghanistan might have gone a lot better if the US had focused on that instead of invading Iraq for no reason.

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Eh, not sure how that would have made a difference. We accomplished our objectives a long time ago and couldn't make Afghanistan stand on their own. The Afghan military is bigger and had more resources than the Taliban but couldn't even hold the country for a week. Hard to imagine what we would have had to have done differently in order to achieve a different outcome without continuing a military presence for decades into the future.

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We wasted trillions on Iraq. If some of that had gone to Afghanistan maybe we would have captured Bin Laden a lot sooner - as in Tora Bora.

There would have been little reason to stick around in Afghanistan like we did but as long as Osama was at large we had to.

I don't understand why we stayed after Obama got him, but it's good to be out now.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Blueblood said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

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S the taliban has taken over ....you're still get your favorite beer and have your house where you have a PC to continue to post here to foster consternation for some sick reason?

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Hunter Biden is the smartest guy Biden knows. That's why we are where we are.

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Hunter leads the taliban?

Blueblood said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Blueblood said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

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S the taliban has taken over ....you're still get your favorite beer and have your house where you have a PC to continue to post here to foster consternation for some sick reason?

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Hunter Biden is the smartest guy Biden knows. That's why we are where we are.

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Hunter leads the taliban?

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you lost BB, take the L.

dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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dimitrig said:

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Afghanistan might have gone a lot better if the US had focused on that instead of invading Iraq for no reason.

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Eh, not sure how that would have made a difference. We accomplished our objectives a long time ago and couldn't make Afghanistan stand on their own. The Afghan military is bigger and had more resources than the Taliban but couldn't even hold the country for a week. Hard to imagine what we would have had to have done differently in order to achieve a different outcome without continuing a military presence for decades into the future.

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We wasted trillions on Iraq. If some of that had gone to Afghanistan maybe we would have captured Bin Laden a lot sooner - as in Tora Bora.

There would have been little reason to stick around in Afghanistan like we did but as long as Osama was at large we had to.

I don't understand why we stayed after Obama got him, but it's good to be out now.

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Well, we know why Obama stayed now. Because he/they knew this was going to happen.

Biden can rip the bandaid because it's early in his first term and 20 years is a long amount of time compared to 10 years.

A week from today, this story won't be the lead of the news anymore.

Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

2. There's a large foreign policy community -- especially journalists at places like NYT or WP who worship "objectivity" 99% of the time -- for whom Afghanistan is personal. They have human ties there, with no greater priority -- human nature, understandable -- than...

— Will Bunch (@Will_Bunch) August 16, 2021

4. It's on the rest of us without personal ties to point out the obvious bigger picture: That a government that collapses in days without America propping them up wasn't worth $2.2 trillion and thousands of U.S. lives. Biden was right to leave but...

— Will Bunch (@Will_Bunch) August 16, 2021

okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

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He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

Blueblood said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Blueblood said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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You know the dems really f'd up when even the leftist media isn't blaming Trump for this historic afghanistan collapse., lol.

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S the taliban has taken over ....you're still get your favorite beer and have your house where you have a PC to continue to post here to foster consternation for some sick reason?

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Hunter Biden is the smartest guy Biden knows. That's why we are where we are.

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Hunter leads the taliban?

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Maybe

oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

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He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

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So in other words, more nation-building. A thing that has never worked in the long history of Afghanistan.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

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He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

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So in other words, more nation-building. A thing that has never worked in the long history of Afghanistan.

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Exactly. The Afghan government was rife with corruption. Apparently the troops weren't being paid what they were owed and weren't treated well. They largely chose to lay down their arms rather than engage with the Taliban.

If that was the case after 20 years and a trillion US taxpayer dollars wasted, I'm not sure we could have done anything to achieve a superior outcome for the Afghan people, apart from making it a territory of the US. Obviously that wasn't an option.

So while this exit was a mess, it was a mess from the start and no amount of tactical execution led by Blinken and Biden would have achieved a different big picture outcome.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

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He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

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So in other words, more nation-building. A thing that has never worked in the long history of Afghanistan.

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Yeah, why bother.

This is a good read. A lot of people are at blame for Afghanistan.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/15/opinions/afghanistan-taliban-takeover-us-withdrawal-bergen/index.html

oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

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He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

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As pointed out on the post you "LOL"-ed at, Biden halting withdrawal efforts would've prompted the Taliban to go on the offensive.

okaydo said:

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oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

---

He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

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As pointed out on the post you "LOL"-ed at, Biden halting withdrawal efforts would've prompted the Taliban to go on the offensive.

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Good thing the Taliban did not go on the offensive then.

oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

---

He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

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As pointed out on the post you "LOL"-ed at, Biden halting withdrawal efforts would've prompted the Taliban to go on the offensive.

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Good thing the Taliban did not go on the offensive then.

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They waited until the US withdrew. Otherwise they would have continued taking on US troops directly.

CNN reporter on the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan: “They’re just chanting ‘Death to America,’ but they seem friendly at the same time.” #Afghanistan #Talibans pic.twitter.com/hYtCBVqeTc

— Sophia Fisher (@sophiabfisher) August 16, 2021

CNN reported it was a mostly peaceful insurrection except for the people the Taliban slaughtered for working with the Americans.

There was very little blood shed. One would expect the opposition militias ( not the Afghan army) would have fought but most capitulated with negotiation not violence. Maybe after the Russians, Pakistanis and Americans an Afghan solution is still better than a foreign one. The only thing this fiasco tells you is the complete and utter incompetence of our military, intelligence and political leadership over 20 years

Hope Never Dies said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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There was very little blood shed. One would expect the opposition militias ( not the Afghan army) would have fought but most capitulated with negotiation not violence. Maybe after the Russians, Pakistanis and Americans an Afghan solution is still better than a foreign one. The only thing this fiasco tells you is the complete and utter incompetence of our military, intelligence and political leadership over 20 years

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Both Trump and Biden were adamant about withdrawing all US troops from Afghanistan, and both were right. That country doesn't belong to the US and the US can't run it forever.

But the idea that problems with withdrawal plans belongs to anyone but Biden is preposterous.

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 15, 2021

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Trump would have never left Afghanistan because he was too cowardly to take this heat.

Trump had 4 years. All he did was free Taliban soldiers in exchange for not mucking up his reelection campaign.

oski003 said:

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okaydo said:

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Trump says the Taliban is very tough, sharp and smart, but even they are tired of fighting.

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 18, 2020

---

He is correct. If takeover by the Taliban was inevitable, Obama, Trump, and/or Biden with the international community should have negotiated an inclusive government held together with a International Peace Keeping mission.

While Obama and Trump had more opportunity to implement these plans, Biden could have halted withdrawal efforts to accomplish an inclusive solution. I am not saying this is easy solution. I am just saying it is much better than what actually happened.

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oski003 supports endless war

dajo9 said:

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Hope Never Dies said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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There was very little blood shed. One would expect the opposition militias ( not the Afghan army) would have fought but most capitulated with negotiation not violence. Maybe after the Russians, Pakistanis and Americans an Afghan solution is still better than a foreign one. The only thing this fiasco tells you is the complete and utter incompetence of our military, intelligence and political leadership over 20 years

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Both Trump and Biden were adamant about withdrawing all US troops from Afghanistan, and both were right. That country doesn't belong to the US and the US can't run it forever.

But the idea that problems with withdrawal plans belongs to anyone but Biden is preposterous.

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 15, 2021

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Trump would have never left Afghanistan because he was too cowardly to take this heat.

Trump had 4 years. All he did was free Taliban soldiers in exchange for not mucking up his reelection campaign.

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He conveniently set a withdrawal date for after the election.

Rumors that Kamala Harris was asked to speak on Afghanistan by the Presidents staffers and declined, stating she was only responsible for Haiti. All day today the Harris and Biden staffers have been arguing. "The Adults have arrived".

Watching Biden officials and their partisans (neocons + liberals) try to claim this withdrawal was Trump's plan is shamelessly deceitful.

Trump did want to leave Afghanistan. But Biden spent the year boasting that it was his choice and plan. Kamala leaked that she was key to it. pic.twitter.com/rngZEvrgGO

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 16, 2021

Kamala played a role in the withdrawal but her office said she's focusing her efforts on Haiti.

Look at this hillbilly insurrection- guns! - how backwards, no bear spray or fire extinguishers. Probably a shaman or two though with the funny hat.

Going into Afghanistan was the right thing to do after 9/11. We killed bin Laden and that was the goal as far as this citizen is concerned.

The biggest mistake was by Bush for focusing on Iraq even as we attacked bin Laden in Tora Bora. The 2nd biggest mistake was Obama not leaving after we killed bin Laden, though it probably wasn't politically feasible given his attempt to exit Iraq.

I am thankful President Biden has the courage to leave.

Trump making the Taliban stronger in exchange for his own political benefit is just Trump being Trump. Trump was a laughably bad President.

BearForce2 said:

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Watching Biden officials and their partisans (neocons + liberals) try to claim this withdrawal was Trump's plan is shamelessly deceitful.

Trump did want to leave Afghanistan. But Biden spent the year boasting that it was his choice and plan. Kamala leaked that she was key to it. pic.twitter.com/rngZEvrgGO

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 16, 2021

Kamala played a role in the withdrawal but her office said she's focusing her efforts on Haiti.

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She's having a designer burka made in Italy

look at that photo, the guy has the barrel of his gun pointed directly at the guy sitting, really poor gun safety from the Taliban.