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The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

2,279,802 Views | 13955 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by Cal88
movielover
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Ukraine Prosecutor General (ergo our AG) Ruslan Kravchenko resigns following criminal corruption probe Involving his office.

Ukraine PM Yulia Svyrydenko resigned recently. She too was under a corruption investigation.

Previously, Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov resigned, citing internal struggles over "procurement priorities."

Looks like it's a giant grift.

cbbass1
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sycasey said:

Peace process seems to be going well!



Putin knows that Trump trusts Kushner & Witkoff. So they'll be reliable messengers & tell Trump what the deal is.

Putin, Iran, & China know that the U.S. is out of weapons & can't sustain any military conflict.

Next month, Ukraine's progress with drones will disappear when the fog rolls in. And when there's fog, Russia will exert its huuge advantage in artillery.

Ukraine's military is falling apart. They know they're screwed.

Putin & Russia are holding all the cards. They will not compromise on their original bottom line.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.
sycasey
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cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?
oski003
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?


1) Negotiate peace deal
2) Abide by peace deal

Please note that the above steps are difficult to achieve if NATO really doesn't want peace other than a deal that destroys Russia.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?


1) Negotiate peace deal
2) Abode by peace deal

Please note that the above steps are difficult to achieve if NATO really doesn't want peace other than a deal that destroys Russia.

Also even more difficult to achieve if Russia doesn't want peace, given that they are the ones doing the invasion.
movielover
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Scott Ritter, who leans anti Trump, claims we have even pulled air defense systems from the Asian theater to use in the Middle East / Ukraine, and claims Germany can't even outfit a battalion. (Is Ritter paid by Rusdian sources?)

If we have pulled all of our navy away from Iran, it proves we underestimated their capabilities. Does Hegseth contemplate managing resource depletion? Ritter claims we were staging helicopters in Jordan, to go to Iraq (?), then attack; but Iran Day 1 (US / Jordan expel Patriot missiles), and on Day 2 Iran hit them with the real attack missiles, damaging the attack group.

Russia seems to be playing both sides, aiding Iran (along with China), and talking business potential w Trump emissaries. Has a new pathway out of Hormouth been completed by our Navy Corps of Engineers (CEC), deepening an existing water passageway?
movielover
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?


1) Negotiate peace deal
2) Abode by peace deal

Please note that the above steps are difficult to achieve if NATO really doesn't want peace other than a deal that destroys Russia.

Also even more difficult to achieve if Russia doesn't want peace, given that they are the ones doing the invasion.


Ukraine/ NATO could have facilitated the Istanbul Peace Accords, not end them. And they could have not run the 2014 coup and civil war. It appears in retrospect Ukraine / NATO had some military successes, their heads got big, and they decided to go forth to "weaken Russia". The bear mobilized, and we see the results. The West's stockpiles have apparently gone far lower (Scott Ritter claims we're cannibalizing Asian theater hardware, missile defense systems, etc), Patriot defense missiles are threadbare, while Russia appears unconstrained.

Ukraine apparently used operating funds for current military purchases, and likely graft, with three top officials stepping down, under investigation, in one month. NATO appears to be a paper tiger that became an offensive tool, not defensive.
sycasey
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movielover said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?


1) Negotiate peace deal
2) Abode by peace deal

Please note that the above steps are difficult to achieve if NATO really doesn't want peace other than a deal that destroys Russia.

Also even more difficult to achieve if Russia doesn't want peace, given that they are the ones doing the invasion.


Ukraine/ NATO could have facilitated the Istanbul Peace Accords, not end them. And they could have not run the 2014 coup and civil war. It appears in retrospect Ukraine / NATO had some military successes, their heads got big, and they decided to go forth to "weaken Russia". The bear mobilized, and we see the results. The West's stockpiles have apparently gone far lower (Scott Ritter claims we're cannibalizing Asian theater hardware, missile defense systems, etc), Patriot defense missiles are threadbare, while Russia appears unconstrained.

Ukraine apparently used operating funds for current military purchases, and likely graft, with three top officials stepping down, under investigation, in one month. NATO appears to be a paper tiger that became an offensive tool, not defensive.

Russia also could have not attacked anyone.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?

Once U.S./NATO/Ukrainian aggression stops & there's no more threat to Russia, it's over. The SMO has been a purely defensive operation from the very beginning.

You might recall that Russia / Lavrov / Putin eagerly agreed to end hostilities in early April, 2022, with the Donbass (Donetsk & Luhansk) remaining as independent oblasts IN UKRAINE. The reports from the negotiations said that they had a tentative agreement initialed, and that "the champagne had popped". All that was required was for Zelenskyy to concede that Ukraine would not join NATO.

It was the U.S. & UK who insisted that Ukraine should continue to fight.

Also remember that it was Russia that requested negotiations with NATO in December, 2021, for a security architecture for Ukraine, Russia, & Eastern Europe, with the intention of avoiding war. NATO & the U.S. refused to negotiate -- ignoring Russia's security concerns while amassing troops just outside the Donbass.
sycasey
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cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?

Once U.S./NATO/Ukrainian aggression stops & there's no more threat to Russia, it's over. The SMO has been a purely defensive operation from the very beginning.

A "defensive" operation that involves invading another country? Okay.

I think you are naively optimistic about Putin's motivations here (just like you were naively optimistic that he wouldn't invade Ukraine at all), but thanks for laying out your views at least. May as well get them on the record here.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?

Once U.S./NATO/Ukrainian aggression stops & there's no more threat to Russia, it's over. The SMO has been a purely defensive operation from the very beginning.

A "defensive" operation that involves invading another country? Okay.

I think you are naively optimistic about Putin's motivations here (just like you were naively optimistic that he wouldn't invade Ukraine at all), but thanks for laying out your views at least. May as well get them on the record here.

It's known as a "pre-emptive strike".

Putin launched the SMO with a force of -- at most -- 190,000 poorly-trained & equipped troops. They attacked a much larger U.S.-funded, trained, & equipped Ukrainian army that was poised to conquer / "re-take" the Donbass & cleanse it of ethnic Russians. (Remember -- when the purpose is to invade and conquer, military strategists recommend an invading force that's 3x larger than the defending army. In the SMO, Russia launched its pre-emptive attack with about half of the Ukrainian troop strength.)

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

The SMO accomplished its purpose -- to get Ukraine to the negotiating table.

It was only after the U.S. & UK killed the diplomatic solution in April 2022 that Russia did its mobilization. At that point, it was obvious that the only path for Russia's safety & survival was a clear military victory in Ukraine.

Putin, Lavrov, & Russia have been clear & consistent about their motivations since 2021. They don't want a hostile military threat at their doorstep. As Putin said, "We will not live at the end of a rifle barrel."

It's the U.S. / NATO / CIA / MIC that carries out its foreign policy in secret, only leaking out the bits & pieces that it wants Western Taxpayers to believe. The entire Russian "threat" to Europe was a narrative to justify $Trillions in U.S. / EU / NATO war spending. It's been the biggest scam / grift in world history. Most of that $$$ has lined the pockets of Ukrainian scammers & oligarchs, Zelenskyy's villa, the strip clubs in Kyiv, and the shareholders of Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, General Dynamics, Starlink, Microsoft, etc, etc.

sycasey
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cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

DaddyLegend said:

Can you get banned here for saying Trump is Putin's puppet?

Asking for all my friends here.


No.

But you'll likely be dismissed for believing nonsense.

Clearly Trump is FAR more beholden to Netanyahu, Miriam Adelson, the NeoCons, the Israel Lobby, the AI/Tech Bros, the PayPal Mafia, and Elon Musk than he is to Putin.

Trump is simply recognizing reality. The U.S. cannot defeat Russia, nor dislodge Putin. Any $$$ spent on the Ukraine War, or "defending Europe" is a waste.

Like it or not, the U.S. must learn to "get along with others" in order to survive. That includes Russia, China, and Iran.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned "puppet masters" cannot tolerate anything but U.S. Global Hegemony.

This is why they're discussing the use of nuclear weapons.

Idiots!

It's time to return control of U.S. foreign policy to the U.S. Sovereignty is important.


What's your thinking for how to get Putin to stop attacking Ukraine?

Putin will stop attacking Ukraine when Ukraine & the U.S. & NATO stop attacking Russia, and stop arming Ukraine.

That's what Witkoff & Kushner will be telling Trump.

It's over.

Ah, more confident predictions. So your position is that the US should leave Ukraine and then Putin will just stop the war? Won't be conquering any more territory? That's your thinking?

Once U.S./NATO/Ukrainian aggression stops & there's no more threat to Russia, it's over. The SMO has been a purely defensive operation from the very beginning.

A "defensive" operation that involves invading another country? Okay.

I think you are naively optimistic about Putin's motivations here (just like you were naively optimistic that he wouldn't invade Ukraine at all), but thanks for laying out your views at least. May as well get them on the record here.

It's known as a "pre-emptive strike".

Like the US in Iraq, another bad idea.
sycasey
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cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.
DaddyLegend
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

There are also no U.S. funded bioweapons labs in Ukraine and NATO and its allies didn't blow up the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.
Go Bears Forever - Heisman Mendoza
sycasey
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DaddyLegend said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

There are also no U.S. funded bioweapons labs in Ukraine and NATO and its allies didn't blow up the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

Didn't they catch a small team of Ukrainians who attacked Nord Stream? I mean, I guess that would technically be US allies but it doesn't look like a coordinated effort.

Also, correct that there were no bioweapons labs. There were bio-research labs, which may be what you're confused about.

All of the stuff you are claiming is pretty much you 100% swallowing the Russian government's narrative on each of these topics, by the way. And yet people complain about me sharing propaganda!
DaddyLegend
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sycasey said:

DaddyLegend said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

There are also no U.S. funded bioweapons labs in Ukraine and NATO and its allies didn't blow up the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

Didn't they catch a small team of Ukrainians who attacked Nord Stream? I mean, I guess that would technically be US allies but it doesn't look like a coordinated effort.

Also, correct that there were no bioweapons labs. There were bio-research labs, which may be what you're confused about.

All of the stuff you are claiming is pretty much you 100% swallowing the Russian government's narrative on each of these topics, by the way. And yet people complain about me sharing propaganda!

My Russian friend who works for state media once visited Wuhan, China and saw Covid leave a wet market with own eyes.
Go Bears Forever - Heisman Mendoza
movielover
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Prime Minister Carney has injected himself into the Ukraine-Russia negotiations by stating his intention to ensure that Ukraine becomes a member of NATO.

Ukraine not becoming a NATO member state is a hardline for Russia. This is deeply engeained in the negotiations between the U.S.-led discussions with Russia and Ukraine. Carney is also aligned w Democrsts in wanting to diminish President Trump in the midterms.
sycasey
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We must stop this Russian genocide of the Ukrainians.

Anarchistbear
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movielover said:

Prime Minister Carney has injected himself into the Ukraine-Russia negotiations by stating his intention to ensure that Ukraine becomes a member of NATO.

Ukraine not becoming a NATO member state is a hardline for Russia. This is deeply engeained in the negotiations between the U.S.-led discussions with Russia and Ukraine. Carney is also aligned w Democrsts in wanting to diminish President Trump in the midterms.


Europeans don't want Ukraine in NATO, have repeatedly rejected it. Do you think they want their young men dying for Ukraine? No, better to sell arms and let the Ukrainians die.
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

We must stop this Russian genocide of the Ukrainians.



#1. Person who complains about tweets from Twitter randos posts video from Twitter rando that we can't check to see if it's a real person or someone with any sort of credibility.
#2. Proxy war supporter deeply concerned about Russian man in occupied territory, not concerned about actual Nazis (as opposed to the pretend Nazis his party talks about in the Republican Party).





Aun "unburdened by what has been" Bear is the OG legend
- DaddyLegend 9/6/2026
movielover
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But the Euro elites seem to have that desire, at least NATO and their clueless leaders.
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

We must stop this Russian genocide of the Ukrainians.



#1. Person who complains about tweets from Twitter randos posts video from Twitter rando that we can't check to see if it's a real person or someone with any sort of credibility.
#2. Proxy war supporter deeply concerned about Russian man in occupied territory, not concerned about actual Nazis (as opposed to the pretend Nazis his party talks about in the Republican Party).

Hey, you are free to keep ignoring all evidence of Russia's war crimes if you prefer.


Anarchistbear
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movielover said:

But the Euro elites seem to have that desire, at least NATO and their clueless leaders.


Previously the US, Germany, and France have opposed. Maybe times have changed but nobody wants to die for them.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

What do you think they've been doing with their drone strikes for the last few months?

Didn't Zelenskyy & the Ukrainian army go across the Russian border & grab territory near Kursk??

Why do you think they funded, armed, & trained the Neo-Nazi militias & brought them together to form the Ukrainian army? To hand out cookies?? NO. The purpose of the exercise was for Ukraine to engage with Russia militarily, in order to weaken Russia, with the ultimate purpose of either defeating Russia, or diminishing its ability to thrive & influence world affairs.

Why did the CIA set up 12 signals / intelligence bases in Eastern Ukraine, near Russia's border, soon after the 2014 Maidan Coup?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html


The whole point of U.S. foreign policy since the end of the USSR, as laid out in Paul Wolfowitz's "FY 94-98 Defense Planning Guidance Sections for Comment" in 1992, was to
  • Assert & maintain U.S. hegemony world-wide;
  • Prevent any rival powers or potential rival powers from arising;
  • Assert that the U.S. military was both willing to, and able to, engage in preemptive military attacks, if necessary, without going to the UN, and without collective action.
"FY 94-98 Defense Planning Guidance Sections for Comment,"

This document was leaked in 1992 because many Americans, especially within the DoD, thought that this abrupt change in policy should be subjected to a public debate. The NeoCons were NOT interested in Public debate. They sought Dominance, and they were determined to ignore the UN, the Geneva Convention, and all international law in order to achieve it.

sycasey
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cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

What do you think they've been doing with their drone strikes for the last few months?

Didn't Zelenskyy & the Ukrainian army go across the Russian border & grab territory near Kursk??

Why do you think they funded, armed, & trained the Neo-Nazi militias & brought them together to form the Ukrainian army? To hand out cookies?? NO. The purpose of the exercise was for Ukraine to engage with Russia militarily, in order to weaken Russia, with the ultimate purpose of either defeating Russia, or diminishing its ability to thrive & influence world affairs.

Why did the CIA set up 12 signals / intelligence bases in Eastern Ukraine, near Russia's border, soon after the 2014 Maidan Coup?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

Every one of these things happened as a response to a Russian incursion on Ukrainian territory, not before. The earlier ones came in response to Crimean annexation and Russia backing separatist groups in Eastern Ukraine to foment a civil war. The later ones came after Russia had already outright invaded the capital. You are blaming Ukraine for fighting back and for asking for help from the US, and saying that this justifies further Russian aggression.

Can't help but feel like this means you really just think that it's okay for Russia to take as much of Ukraine as they want. Is that your position? Honestly, everything you argue would be a lot more consistent if it was.
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

What do you think they've been doing with their drone strikes for the last few months?

Didn't Zelenskyy & the Ukrainian army go across the Russian border & grab territory near Kursk??

Why do you think they funded, armed, & trained the Neo-Nazi militias & brought them together to form the Ukrainian army? To hand out cookies?? NO. The purpose of the exercise was for Ukraine to engage with Russia militarily, in order to weaken Russia, with the ultimate purpose of either defeating Russia, or diminishing its ability to thrive & influence world affairs.

Why did the CIA set up 12 signals / intelligence bases in Eastern Ukraine, near Russia's border, soon after the 2014 Maidan Coup?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

Every one of these things happened as a response to a Russian incursion on Ukrainian territory, not before. The earlier ones came in response to Crimean annexation and Russia backing separatist groups in Eastern Ukraine to foment a civil war. The later ones came after Russia had already outright invaded the capital. You are blaming Ukraine for fighting back and for asking for help from the US, and saying that this justifies further Russian aggression.

Can't help but feel like this means you really just think that it's okay for Russia to take as much of Ukraine as they want. Is that your position? Honestly, everything you argue would be a lot more consistent if it was.

Your black and white view of Russia and Ukraine is honestly hilarious. It's so much easier to understand the situation when you stop thinking like a child in terms of trying to figure out who is the good guy.
Aun "unburdened by what has been" Bear is the OG legend
- DaddyLegend 9/6/2026
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

What do you think they've been doing with their drone strikes for the last few months?

Didn't Zelenskyy & the Ukrainian army go across the Russian border & grab territory near Kursk??

Why do you think they funded, armed, & trained the Neo-Nazi militias & brought them together to form the Ukrainian army? To hand out cookies?? NO. The purpose of the exercise was for Ukraine to engage with Russia militarily, in order to weaken Russia, with the ultimate purpose of either defeating Russia, or diminishing its ability to thrive & influence world affairs.

Why did the CIA set up 12 signals / intelligence bases in Eastern Ukraine, near Russia's border, soon after the 2014 Maidan Coup?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

Every one of these things happened as a response to a Russian incursion on Ukrainian territory, not before. The earlier ones came in response to Crimean annexation and Russia backing separatist groups in Eastern Ukraine to foment a civil war. The later ones came after Russia had already outright invaded the capital. You are blaming Ukraine for fighting back and for asking for help from the US, and saying that this justifies further Russian aggression.

Can't help but feel like this means you really just think that it's okay for Russia to take as much of Ukraine as they want. Is that your position? Honestly, everything you argue would be a lot more consistent if it was.

Your black and white view of Russia and Ukraine is honestly hilarious. It's so much easier to understand the situation when you stop thinking like a child in terms of trying to figure out who is the good guy.

You are in here posting about how Ukrainians are Nazis and I'm the one with a black-and-white view? That's the truly hilarious thing here.

I'm talking about realities on the ground. Even if I accept your premise that everything here is America's or NATO's fault (I don't, but just for the sake of argument), the current reality is that Russia is attempting to overrun Ukraine and take away its sovereignty. My question is, how do you deal with that? Or do you not care? And if you don't care about this, why do you care so much about Palestine?
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

What do you think they've been doing with their drone strikes for the last few months?

Didn't Zelenskyy & the Ukrainian army go across the Russian border & grab territory near Kursk??

Why do you think they funded, armed, & trained the Neo-Nazi militias & brought them together to form the Ukrainian army? To hand out cookies?? NO. The purpose of the exercise was for Ukraine to engage with Russia militarily, in order to weaken Russia, with the ultimate purpose of either defeating Russia, or diminishing its ability to thrive & influence world affairs.

Why did the CIA set up 12 signals / intelligence bases in Eastern Ukraine, near Russia's border, soon after the 2014 Maidan Coup?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

Every one of these things happened as a response to a Russian incursion on Ukrainian territory, not before. The earlier ones came in response to Crimean annexation and Russia backing separatist groups in Eastern Ukraine to foment a civil war. The later ones came after Russia had already outright invaded the capital. You are blaming Ukraine for fighting back and for asking for help from the US, and saying that this justifies further Russian aggression.

Can't help but feel like this means you really just think that it's okay for Russia to take as much of Ukraine as they want. Is that your position? Honestly, everything you argue would be a lot more consistent if it was.

Your black and white view of Russia and Ukraine is honestly hilarious. It's so much easier to understand the situation when you stop thinking like a child in terms of trying to figure out who is the good guy.

You are in here posting about how Ukrainians are Nazis and I'm the one with a black-and-white view? That's the truly hilarious thing here.

I'm talking about realities on the ground. Even if I accept your premise that everything here is America's or NATO's fault (I don't, but just for the sake of argument), the current reality is that Russia is attempting to overrun Ukraine and take away its sovereignty. My question is, how do you deal with that? Or do you not care? And if you don't care about this, why do you care so much about Palestine?


No comparison between this war and Palestine, for those who know the basic facts about the Ukraine war since 2014. Some of the main differences:

-Russia doesn't target civilians, Ukraine does, since the 2014 bombings of Donetsk and the Donbas. Around 2% of the war deaths in Ukraine were civilians, vs 80%-90% in Gaza.

-Russia is not motivated by territorial conquest, as proven by the Minsk and Istanbul accords. Russia held 20% of Ukraine in April 22, they could have held on to the Donbas and other territories but offered to withdraw completely from these territories (except Crimea) in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality and greater autonomy for the Donbas along the lines of the Scottish or Catalan model. Their primary motives are security (neutral neighbor) and the well-being of persecuted large Russian minority in Ukraine. They wanted a neutral Ukraine where the Russian minority is protected, similar to minorities in the rest of Europe. They view the Donbas war as a burden they would have rather solved through political means.

Where the two conflicts are similar is that both the Israelis and Kiev government espouse a dogma of ethno-racial superiority. Kiev pushes WW2 nazis as their founding fathers, and characterize Russians as racially inferior.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

What do you think they've been doing with their drone strikes for the last few months?

Didn't Zelenskyy & the Ukrainian army go across the Russian border & grab territory near Kursk??

Why do you think they funded, armed, & trained the Neo-Nazi militias & brought them together to form the Ukrainian army? To hand out cookies?? NO. The purpose of the exercise was for Ukraine to engage with Russia militarily, in order to weaken Russia, with the ultimate purpose of either defeating Russia, or diminishing its ability to thrive & influence world affairs.

Why did the CIA set up 12 signals / intelligence bases in Eastern Ukraine, near Russia's border, soon after the 2014 Maidan Coup?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

Every one of these things happened as a response to a Russian incursion on Ukrainian territory, not before. The earlier ones came in response to Crimean annexation and Russia backing separatist groups in Eastern Ukraine to foment a civil war. The later ones came after Russia had already outright invaded the capital. You are blaming Ukraine for fighting back and for asking for help from the US, and saying that this justifies further Russian aggression.

Can't help but feel like this means you really just think that it's okay for Russia to take as much of Ukraine as they want. Is that your position? Honestly, everything you argue would be a lot more consistent if it was.

Your black and white view of Russia and Ukraine is honestly hilarious. It's so much easier to understand the situation when you stop thinking like a child in terms of trying to figure out who is the good guy.

You are in here posting about how Ukrainians are Nazis and I'm the one with a black-and-white view? That's the truly hilarious thing here.

I'm talking about realities on the ground. Even if I accept your premise that everything here is America's or NATO's fault (I don't, but just for the sake of argument), the current reality is that Russia is attempting to overrun Ukraine and take away its sovereignty. My question is, how do you deal with that? Or do you not care? And if you don't care about this, why do you care so much about Palestine?


No comparison between this war and Palestine, for those who know the basic facts about the Ukraine war since 2014. Some of the main differences:

-Russia doesn't target civilians, Ukraine does, since the 2014 bombings of Donetsk and the Donbas. Around 2% of the war deaths in Ukraine were civilians, vs 80%-90% in Gaza.

-Russia is not motivated by territorial conquest, as proven by the Minsk and Istanbul accords. Russia held 20% of Ukraine in April 22, they could have held on to the Donbas and other territories but offered to withdraw completely from these territories (except Crimea) in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality and greater autonomy for the Donbas along the lines of the Scottish or Catalan model. Their primary motives are security (neutral neighbor) and the well-being of persecuted large Russian minority in Ukraine. They wanted a neutral Ukraine where the Russian minority is protected, similar to minorities in the rest of Europe. They view the Donbas war as a burden they would have rather solved through political means.

Where the two conflicts are similar is that both the Israelis and Kiev government espouse a dogma of ethno-racial superiority. Kiev pushes WW2 nazis as their founding fathers, and characterize Russians as racially inferior.

1. Russia clearly does target civilians.





2. Russia definitely is motivated by territorial conquest. In the most recent negotiations with the US envoys (Kushner/Witkoff), Putin demanded additional territory BEYOND what Russia now holds. That's a weird thing to do if you only care about "security." They want to colonize Ukraine.



Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

After conquering the Donbass, the Ukrainian army was going to invade Russian territory, with the intention of getting Russia bogged down in an expensive conflict.

By the way, I think this is also completely insane, basically taking Putin's most paranoid fears as gospel truth. Ukraine was not going to invade Russia, come on now.

What do you think they've been doing with their drone strikes for the last few months?

Didn't Zelenskyy & the Ukrainian army go across the Russian border & grab territory near Kursk??

Why do you think they funded, armed, & trained the Neo-Nazi militias & brought them together to form the Ukrainian army? To hand out cookies?? NO. The purpose of the exercise was for Ukraine to engage with Russia militarily, in order to weaken Russia, with the ultimate purpose of either defeating Russia, or diminishing its ability to thrive & influence world affairs.

Why did the CIA set up 12 signals / intelligence bases in Eastern Ukraine, near Russia's border, soon after the 2014 Maidan Coup?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

Every one of these things happened as a response to a Russian incursion on Ukrainian territory, not before. The earlier ones came in response to Crimean annexation and Russia backing separatist groups in Eastern Ukraine to foment a civil war. The later ones came after Russia had already outright invaded the capital. You are blaming Ukraine for fighting back and for asking for help from the US, and saying that this justifies further Russian aggression.

Can't help but feel like this means you really just think that it's okay for Russia to take as much of Ukraine as they want. Is that your position? Honestly, everything you argue would be a lot more consistent if it was.

Your black and white view of Russia and Ukraine is honestly hilarious. It's so much easier to understand the situation when you stop thinking like a child in terms of trying to figure out who is the good guy.

You are in here posting about how Ukrainians are Nazis and I'm the one with a black-and-white view? That's the truly hilarious thing here.

I'm talking about realities on the ground. Even if I accept your premise that everything here is America's or NATO's fault (I don't, but just for the sake of argument), the current reality is that Russia is attempting to overrun Ukraine and take away its sovereignty. My question is, how do you deal with that? Or do you not care? And if you don't care about this, why do you care so much about Palestine?


No comparison between this war and Palestine, for those who know the basic facts about the Ukraine war since 2014. Some of the main differences:

-Russia doesn't target civilians, Ukraine does, since the 2014 bombings of Donetsk and the Donbas. Around 2% of the war deaths in Ukraine were civilians, vs 80%-90% in Gaza.

-Russia is not motivated by territorial conquest, as proven by the Minsk and Istanbul accords. Russia held 20% of Ukraine in April 22, they could have held on to the Donbas and other territories but offered to withdraw completely from these territories (except Crimea) in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality and greater autonomy for the Donbas along the lines of the Scottish or Catalan model. Their primary motives are security (neutral neighbor) and the well-being of persecuted large Russian minority in Ukraine. They wanted a neutral Ukraine where the Russian minority is protected, similar to minorities in the rest of Europe. They view the Donbas war as a burden they would have rather solved through political means.

Where the two conflicts are similar is that both the Israelis and Kiev government espouse a dogma of ethno-racial superiority. Kiev pushes WW2 nazis as their founding fathers, and characterize Russians as racially inferior.

1. Russia clearly does target civilians.





2. Russia definitely is motivated by territorial conquest. In the most recent negotiations with the US envoys (Kushner/Witkoff), Putin demanded additional territory BEYOND what Russia now holds. That's a weird thing to do if you only care about "security." They want to colonize Ukraine.






1-Ukraine has long been using ambulances and other civilian vehicles and buildings for military purposes.



Russia also has a history of targeting apartments and hotels where Ukraine and NATO officers are housed. If they wanted to kill random Ukrainian civilians, they would have used $1,000 long range shells instead of a $50,000 drone. They could level entire blocks with artillery shells for the price of one precision guided drone hitting one apartment in a building. Note that these drones are hitting specific apartments.

2- I believe those extra territories claimed by Russia are part of the 4 oblasts they have officially annexed, most notably the western bank of the Kherson oblast. They already hold most of the land in the other 3 oblasts annexed. They've made it clear that they could accept such an arrangement and no further territories annexed provided their main conditions of Ukraine neutrality and reform were met.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

1-Ukraine has long been using ambulances and other civilian vehicles and buildings for military purposes.

Wow, this sounds exactly like Israel's justification for targeting civilian areas in Gaza. Yet you don't accept their explanations when they do it. I wonder why?

Cal88 said:

2- I believe those extra territories claimed by Russia are part of the 4 oblasts they have officially annexed, most notably the western bank of the Kherson oblast. They already hold most of the land in the other 3 oblasts annexed. They've made it clear that they could accept such an arrangement and no further territories annexed provided their main conditions of Ukraine neutrality and reform were met.

Oh okay, Ukraine should just let them have whatever they say they annexed. And the next time when they say they annexed something else? I can't blame the Ukrainians or anyone else for not buying this.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

1-Ukraine has long been using ambulances and other civilian vehicles and buildings for military purposes.

Wow, this sounds exactly like Israel's justification for targeting civilian areas in Gaza. Yet you don't accept their explanations when they do it. I wonder why?

Because over 98% of Ukrainian KIAs were military. The Russians have used over 10 million shells, tens of thousands of drones and missiles yet only around 2% of their victims were civilians. They clearly do not target civilians.

This war is nothing like the Gaza war, where the Israelis have not only targeted and killed thousands of health workers, first aid workers, journalists, but even went out of their way to killing these civilian workers along with their families.

Look, if the Russians were anywhere near as bad as the Israelis, I would have been the first to denounce them. The difference between your perception of the conflict and mine is that you have a cultural bias against Russia and Russian culture that has been ingrained since the Cold War days. This is not unlike pro-zionists who buy into the Israeli narrative because they are culturally biased against Arabs and Muslims.


Quote:

Oh okay, Ukraine should just let them have whatever they say they annexed. And the next time when they say they annexed something else? I can't blame the Ukrainians or anyone else for not buying this.

Look, the Russians are tired of this war, they have had over 3 times our Vietnam War losses, and already have more land than they can possibly use with 145M people spread over 11 time zones and a land twice the size of the US.

NATO's entire raison d'etre is to fight against Russia, and NATO/EU leaders and think tankers openly call for regime change and the dismemberment of Russia, the Ukraine war is essentially the pushback against that, along with the protection of the Russian minority there. If NATO didn't coup Ukraine in 2014 and abided by Minsk, the Russians would never have invaded. NATO clearly knew Russia's red lines and deliberately crossed them, using Ukraine to weaken Russian.
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