Why do republicans hate gays?

11,321 Views | 102 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by concordtom
Unit2Sucks
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BearGoggles said:

Unit2Sucks said:

BG is purposefully ignoring the private right of action which has been widely adopted the last few years to chill behavior. Just like in the Texas anti choice bill and Florida's anti woke act, whatever that is supposed to be about. How long before some parent sues a school because his kid's kindergarten teacher is gay?

It's completely on brand for BG to take a reductionist view of the language and ignore why it's happening. No one was teaching sex ed in Kindergarten in Florida. If the entire purpose of the bill was to prevent 5 year olds from being exposed to sex ed, the bill is completely unnecessary. So why would it have been proposed and passed?

Maybe we should pass a bill to prevent elementary school kids from being radicalized by the NRA and taught how to operate machine guns? After that we can focus on preventing them from being taught how to abuse their spouses. I mean who would oppose that?

This bill didn't happen by accident. BG's view is intentionally ignoring the purpose behind the bill, which is of course the very reason this thread was started.

LOL at the comparison to Texas. The Texas law created a private right of action against individuals to impose anti-abortion rules that a state could not lawfully adopt. I think that is wrong and unconstitutional and have posted as such.

The Florida law gives parents the right to sue the school district - not individuals - if the school district is not following the law. That is not only materially different than the Texas law, it is common place. People sue all the time to enforce laws and/or rights - the gay marriage litigation was exactly that. Pretty much every civil rights action was exactly that.

There is no chance a parent is going to successfully sue under this law for having a gay teacher. Just stop. If the teachers follow the curriculum, there won't be an issue.

I'm not intentionally ignoring the purpose behind the law - it is to prevent woke teachers from imposing their views on students in derogation of parental rights.

If you agree that republicans hate gays, I guess I'll ask why democrats/liberals hate babies?

And you accuse me of being reductionist.
BS and you know it. There will be frivolous lawsuits that wouldn't have happened but for this dumb law and it will chill conduct. That's the entire point. As for "following" the curriculum - that was already the case and no curriculum includes teaching kindergarteners to be gay. There is no legitimate purpose to this bill. It exists in part for deplorable signalling and in part to chill behavior. But of course you won't let that get in the way of your reductionist analysis that ignores the motivations for and, likely consequences of, the bill.

Here's a good discussion of this bill, the private right of action and the playbook that DeSantis is using:

Quote:

Florida's bill goes further, by encouraging everyday civilians to enforce it. If passed, parents would be allowed to directly sue a school districtand possibly receive damages in addition to attorney's feesif they suspect an educator has violated the law.

This "private right of action" has been a recurring theme in the DeSantis agenda. Last June, he signed into law a bill that allows any student who has been "deprived of an athletic opportunity" by a trans kid to sue the school. And DeSantis' proposed "Stop WOKE Act," an initiative to ban the teaching of critical race theory in schools and businesses, would have allowed parents and students to bring lawsuits against school districts that contravened the law.

Republicans in the state Senate are currently advancing another version of that proposal, which would prohibit teachings that suggest students and employees should "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin." (DeSantis has expressed frustration with it, because it doesn't allow individuals to sue the schools directly.)

Even though it hasn't yet passed, that bill has already had a chilling effect. This week, a Florida school district canceled a history professor's planned seminar for teachers on the civil rights movement. In an email to educators who'd planned to attend, the superintendent said the school district wanted a committee to review the professor's presentation, "in light of the current conversations across our state and in our community about critical race theory."

This kind of smothering environment is the desired outcome of Florida's "don't say gay" bill.

If parents are empowered to take legal action against any already-cash-strapped school that acknowledges the existence of LGBTQ people, schools will simply stop acknowledging that LGBTQ people exist. As Wolf put it: "Teachers would be fearful of legal repercussions, and therefore resistant or reluctant to create an affirming or inclusive classroom environment."

And by outsourcing enforcement to vigilante parents rather than leaving it to the statejust as Texas legislators did with their abortion ban, in a tactic blessed by the Supreme CourtFlorida lawmakers have ensured that no one can challenge the law in federal court before it's enforced.



helltopay1
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okaydo. Repubs don't hate gays....The MSM has outrageously fabricated the Florida bill. The bill simply says that teachers are prohibited from mentioning sexual orientation to kids from k-through the third grade. Period. The word "gay" is not mentioned or implied in the bill. Florida simply does not want kids at this vulnerable , innocent age to be bombarded with references to any sexual lifestyle, mainstream or otherwise. Bringing up children these days is hard enough without vulnerable kids becoming confused and anxious about topics which are better left to family, church and advanced age. Here's a news flash.....The great majority of Americans, including Floridians want to protect children from these "woke' fantasies until such age as they can better understand them. Do you have kids K-eight years old?????This is sick, sick, sick stuff to throw at vulnerable kids.....shameful beyond belief....Just give me ten min Utes alone in a room with the author/s of this sick stuff.....
Unit2Sucks
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Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.


Why not put the law on the books then? Trump seems to think it's a big problem. I guess Republicans no longer care about children's lives.


BearForce2
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!

You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.

He can run for office and try passing such a bill himself but the Democrats would laugh at him.
sycasey
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BearGoggles said:

sycasey said:

BearGoggles said:

Section 3 "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students"

Again- how is this controversial? Do we need sex ed for students under 8? Above that age, it should be age appropriate - ABSOULETLY SHOCKING. Age appropriate means that gender and sexual preference issues will be discussed - most likely in high school. Why is that a problem?
Who decides what is "age appropriate?"

What if a student has gay parents and the class is talking about their mommies and daddies and what they do? Or has a day when parents are to visit the classroom?

Is the school required to shield K-3 students from the discussion that would inevitably follow from seeing the kid with gay parents? Could they be opening themselves up to a lawsuit if they don't?

The language seems pretty vague here. That's the problem.


It is vague - just like every other curriculum standard. It seems the legislature is saying that under grade 3, not appropriate. After that, subject to local school boards to determine curriculum.

I think a significant issue is when individual teachers have an agenda to incorporate woke politics and social justice in to curriculum. There is really no question that is happening - many teachers are open in their agenda to do so.

Regarding a students discussion of their gay parents, the law doesn't apply. It applies to classroom instruction - not comments from students.

And when some enterprising conservative family decides to sue the school because a 2nd grade teacher mentioned a student's gay family? Or maybe the teacher is gay and mentions their own?

This law seems to invite that kind of thing.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.


Why not put the law on the books then? Trump seems to think it's a big problem. I guess Republicans no longer care about children's lives.





Not going on some weird tangent with you here as I respect the honest discussion before you attempted to derail it like an *******.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.


Why not put the law on the books then? Trump seems to think it's a big problem. I guess Republicans no longer care about children's lives.





Not going on some weird tangent with you here as I respect the honest discussion before you attempted to derail it like an *******.


This was never going to be an honest discussion because it's based on a disingenuous piece of legislation. It's not attempting to solve a real problem and is intended to further the Republican culture war.

The comparison to abortion of children is apt because it's likewise a non existent issue pushed by disingenuous conservatives to support their culture war.

No one will mind if you don't respond.
MinotStateBeav
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.


Why not put the law on the books then? Trump seems to think it's a big problem. I guess Republicans no longer care about children's lives.



Unit2Sucks
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MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.


Why not put the law on the books then? Trump seems to think it's a big problem. I guess Republicans no longer care about children's lives.






Thank you MSB for addressing the gravity of this issue. We can both agree that aborting elementary school aged children is abhorrent. And yet there is still no law on the books in Florida to address this.

Why don't Florida republicans think aborting elementary school children is a crime? I don't know about you, but that sure seems like a bigger deal than worrying about non existent discussions of sexual orientation in kindergarten. It saddens me to see Republicans so focused on the culture war that they are prioritizing it over the safety of school children, none of whom should have to worry about being aborted. I would also like to see a private right of action when they do tackle 20th trimester abortions.
concordtom
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Sebastabear said:

These anti-gay pieces of legislation always have a strong streak of "Well if we don't outlaw it then everyone will do it" in them. This guy from Florida is a classic case in point. Lol.

You know which men want to have sex with other men? Gay men. You know who doesn't? Not gay men. These guys (and they are alway guys) who think that all that stands between them and joining a Village People tribute band is a piece of legislation may want to look in the mirror.




That's simply hilarious!!!!!
concordtom
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kelly09 said:

concordtom said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

This thread has the potential of being the most unifying thread in Off Topic history as everyone basically agrees.


I'll wait until The Usual Suspects chime in first.
(And of course with a thread title like that they are going to read, so a no-response = dissent.)
Tom, you are The Usual Suspect.


Ha, good one!


I'm only a hater of Trumpists, not minorities.

Oh, wait, Trump has ALWAYS been in the minority, too. Never mind.
cbbass1
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BearGoggles said:

cbbass1 said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

bearister said:

20 Republican Politicians Brought Down By Big Gay Sex Scandals | NewNowNext


http://www.newnownext.com/19-republican-politicians-gay-sex/12/2016/
Thanks for sharing.

I am still wondering if you know, what does the bill actually say?

Why don't you just google it up yourself instead of asking us to do it for you?

I know what the bills says. Its pretty clear from the posts in this thread that most people don't.

As I read it - as opposed to how it has been portrayed - the law is mostly a statement of parental rights and a restriction on curriculum (and teacher's going off the curriculum).

Section 2 - Basically says that the schools can't provide guidance or counseling in decisions affecting a student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being without parental involvement - with a pretty broad carve out for situations that might result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect.

The fact that this is even controversial is absurd. A parent's rights - and preferences - in these areas absolutely trump those of the teachers/schools (absent abuse, etc.). The fact that many teachers feel it is their role to be involved in this part of a student's life - without parent involvement - is outrageous.

And for those of you who would claim that doesn't happen, read here.

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids?s=r

Section 3 "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students"

Again- how is this controversial? Do we need sex ed for students under 8? Above that age, it should be age appropriate - ABSOULETLY SHOCKING. Age appropriate means that gender and sexual preference issues will be discussed - most likely in high school. Why is that a problem?

Big picture: : "The procedures must reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children by requiring school district personnel to encourage a student to discuss issues relating to his or her well-being with his or her parent or to facilitate discussion of the issue with the parent."

It is not the job of public schools and educators to undermine parents - even if we would agree the parents' views are homophobic (or whatever). Maybe the teachers should just teach math, english, history and science and leave the social issues to parents/churches/outside groups?
The reality is that not all parents are perfect, or even capable of parenting.

You might remember, many years ago, a dramatic increase in the rates of teen suicide. In many cases, the victims were gay children of homophobic parents. They felt rejected and alone, with no one to talk to. No one who would accept them and love them for who they are.

This led to a cultural movement of gay people "coming out" to friends & family. Across the nation, and even in the NFL, people who had been homophobic now had a family member or friend who was gay. Even Dick Cheney.

A cottage industry of cruel, anti-gay, pseudo-science "conversion therapy" camps started up. "Conversion Therapy" was subsequently banned by many states & municipalities, beginning with California in 2012.

The culmination of this was SCOTUS's Obergefell v Hodges decision (2015) that legalized Marriage Equality, citing the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

Without the public schools, gay children of homophobic parents have no institution with a policy of accepting who they are.

The promotion of tolerance and acceptance by schools, public and private, led to widespread acceptance and tolerance of gays (and other races) among young people, and a rejection of homophobes, racists, and Republicans.

The GOP is trying to "put the genie back in the bottle." They're attempting another round of de-funding for Public Education, perceiving it as an anti-American / anti-Republican institution. This is driving U.S. Public Education even further back to the Stone Age.





I don't think its the role of teachers or school administrators to decide who are "good parents" and "bad parents". They are not trained to provide counseling and we have social services to do that in cases of abuse, etc. And they certainly should not be circumventing or undermining parents, even if the we might agree the parents' views are repugnant (at least until the intolerance reaches a level of abuse).
If parents reject their children because they're gay, then they're bad parents.

If parents reject their gay children because they (the parents) are Christian, then they're not even Christian.

You can search the New Testament all you want -- Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

What he did say is "Love your Neighbor as yourself."

It's not complicated.
concordtom
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BearForce2 said:



Quote:

There is no bill in Florida forbidding students or teachers from saying the word "gay." That doesn't exist. Nothing like it exists. Not at all. Not remotely. What does exist is legislation preventing teachers from sexually indoctrinating pre-schoolers.



In Roseville a couple years ago there was a kindergartner who was to return to school after a weekend one week before summer break as a different gender than on the prior Friday. New name. New clothes. New gender.

The parents were demanding that the entire class be given a full explanation and that there be counseling group discussion. Something like this. "Look, this is the same student you were sitting next to, except he's now a girl and her name is..."

A bunch of parents were horrified and pulled their kids rather than enter that conversation with them.
The school was in a complete bind. I don't know how it ended. I remember some teachers at our school rolling their eyes. I did sigh. Why not wait one week? These kids are so young.

I decided that the parents simply had an agenda!!
BearGoggles
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cbbass1 said:

BearGoggles said:

cbbass1 said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

bearister said:

20 Republican Politicians Brought Down By Big Gay Sex Scandals | NewNowNext


http://www.newnownext.com/19-republican-politicians-gay-sex/12/2016/
Thanks for sharing.

I am still wondering if you know, what does the bill actually say?

Why don't you just google it up yourself instead of asking us to do it for you?

I know what the bills says. Its pretty clear from the posts in this thread that most people don't.

As I read it - as opposed to how it has been portrayed - the law is mostly a statement of parental rights and a restriction on curriculum (and teacher's going off the curriculum).

Section 2 - Basically says that the schools can't provide guidance or counseling in decisions affecting a student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being without parental involvement - with a pretty broad carve out for situations that might result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect.

The fact that this is even controversial is absurd. A parent's rights - and preferences - in these areas absolutely trump those of the teachers/schools (absent abuse, etc.). The fact that many teachers feel it is their role to be involved in this part of a student's life - without parent involvement - is outrageous.

And for those of you who would claim that doesn't happen, read here.

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids?s=r

Section 3 "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students"

Again- how is this controversial? Do we need sex ed for students under 8? Above that age, it should be age appropriate - ABSOULETLY SHOCKING. Age appropriate means that gender and sexual preference issues will be discussed - most likely in high school. Why is that a problem?

Big picture: : "The procedures must reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children by requiring school district personnel to encourage a student to discuss issues relating to his or her well-being with his or her parent or to facilitate discussion of the issue with the parent."

It is not the job of public schools and educators to undermine parents - even if we would agree the parents' views are homophobic (or whatever). Maybe the teachers should just teach math, english, history and science and leave the social issues to parents/churches/outside groups?
The reality is that not all parents are perfect, or even capable of parenting.

You might remember, many years ago, a dramatic increase in the rates of teen suicide. In many cases, the victims were gay children of homophobic parents. They felt rejected and alone, with no one to talk to. No one who would accept them and love them for who they are.

This led to a cultural movement of gay people "coming out" to friends & family. Across the nation, and even in the NFL, people who had been homophobic now had a family member or friend who was gay. Even Dick Cheney.

A cottage industry of cruel, anti-gay, pseudo-science "conversion therapy" camps started up. "Conversion Therapy" was subsequently banned by many states & municipalities, beginning with California in 2012.

The culmination of this was SCOTUS's Obergefell v Hodges decision (2015) that legalized Marriage Equality, citing the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

Without the public schools, gay children of homophobic parents have no institution with a policy of accepting who they are.

The promotion of tolerance and acceptance by schools, public and private, led to widespread acceptance and tolerance of gays (and other races) among young people, and a rejection of homophobes, racists, and Republicans.

The GOP is trying to "put the genie back in the bottle." They're attempting another round of de-funding for Public Education, perceiving it as an anti-American / anti-Republican institution. This is driving U.S. Public Education even further back to the Stone Age.





I don't think its the role of teachers or school administrators to decide who are "good parents" and "bad parents". They are not trained to provide counseling and we have social services to do that in cases of abuse, etc. And they certainly should not be circumventing or undermining parents, even if the we might agree the parents' views are repugnant (at least until the intolerance reaches a level of abuse).
If parents reject their children because they're gay, then they're bad parents.

If parents reject their gay children because they (the parents) are Christian, then they're not even Christian.

You can search the New Testament all you want -- Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

What he did say is "Love your Neighbor as yourself."

It's not complicated.

It is not a teacher place to make any of these judgments.

And I have no idea why you're referring me to the New Testament. I'm not a believer in that book religiously speaking (though I would agree with some of its ethos), but the fact that you're relying on it to justify your position strikes me as quite ironic.

As a counterpoint, there are many people who feel giving puberty blockers to children with gender dysphoria is child abuse and/or horribly damaging. Would you be in favor of schools, teacher and social services intervening based on those beliefs? If a teacher objects to the decision to give puberty blockers, is it ok for the teacher to encourage the student not to take his/her medicine and hide that from their parents? Or is it up to the parent to make that decision in consultation with their advisors?

You can't have it both ways. Maybe the teachers and schools should let the parents make parental decisions?
BearGoggles
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.


Why not put the law on the books then? Trump seems to think it's a big problem. I guess Republicans no longer care about children's lives.





Not going on some weird tangent with you here as I respect the honest discussion before you attempted to derail it like an *******.


This was never going to be an honest discussion because it's based on a disingenuous piece of legislation. It's not attempting to solve a real problem and is intended to further the Republican culture war.


This is peak Unit2. There can't be an honest discussion according to him, yet here he is posting away. If you truly think that (which I wonder), why are you here? Just to demagogue?

You may reject it, but the Florida legislation is addressing a real issue in the culture wars. Many teachers don't even attempt to hide their desire to bring culture/politics/wokeism into the classroom at a very young age. Their unions endorse it and in many places like CA, it is now legally mandated as part of the curriculum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAIR_Education_Act

California has also eliminated parental opt out rights for the most part;

https://www.aclunc.org/docs/lgbtq_inclusivity_requirements_and_how_they_interact_with_parental_opt_out.pdf

This is Florida saying they don't want their schools/teachers following that type of curriculum and conferring a variety of rights on parents to ensure transparency and protect their parental prerogatives.

Fine to disagree with Florida - maybe you like the CA approach. But don't suggest this is not a real issue in schools or the culture. It unequivocally is. If CA can pass a law mandating statewide curriculum standards, so can Florida.
Unit2Sucks
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BearGoggles said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Why hasn't Florida passed a law making it illegal to abort kindergartners? Surely aborting 6 year olds is worse than talking about sexual orientation but the Republicans running Florida don't seem to care. SAD!


You can't abort a six year old. Stop being disingenuous.


Why not put the law on the books then? Trump seems to think it's a big problem. I guess Republicans no longer care about children's lives.





Not going on some weird tangent with you here as I respect the honest discussion before you attempted to derail it like an *******.


This was never going to be an honest discussion because it's based on a disingenuous piece of legislation. It's not attempting to solve a real problem and is intended to further the Republican culture war.


This is peak Unit2. There can't be an honest discussion according to him, yet here he is posting away. If you truly think that (which I wonder), why are you here? Just to demagogue?

You may reject it, but the Florida legislation is addressing a real issue in the culture wars. Many teachers don't even attempt to hide their desire to bring culture/politics/wokeism into the classroom at a very young age. Their unions endorse it and in many places like CA, it is now legally mandated as part of the curriculum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAIR_Education_Act

California has also eliminated parental opt out rights for the most part;

https://www.aclunc.org/docs/lgbtq_inclusivity_requirements_and_how_they_interact_with_parental_opt_out.pdf

This is Florida saying they don't want their schools/teachers following that type of curriculum and conferring a variety of rights on parents to ensure transparency and protect their parental prerogatives.

Fine to disagree with Florida - maybe you like the CA approach. But don't suggest this is not a real issue in schools or the culture. It unequivocally is. If CA can pass a law mandating statewide curriculum standards, so can Florida.
This is not a real problem in kindergarten in Florida and is just another example of republican disingenuous BS. It's an attempt by DeSantis to stoke the flames of a culture war just like his idiotic anti-WOKE act and a number of other stunts he's pulled - like yelling at kids to stop wearing masks at an event.

The fact that you think this is a "real issue in the culture wars" supports my comment. The only demagoguery here is Florida/DeSantis attacking LGBTQ people. Here's his spokesperson accusing people who oppose this bill as being in favor of grooming children.



But please continue to lecture us on how real and important this culture war is and how I'm a demagogue. Your argument is totally credible.
NVBear78
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They don't. Why do dems and media gaslight Americans 24/7? Do you think kids grade 3 and under should be taught about transgender, sex etc? That's inappropriate. Please teach children how to read and write and math.
okaydo
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NVBear78 said:

They don't. Why do dems and media gaslight Americans 24/7? Do you think kids grade 3 and under should be taught about transgender, sex etc? That's inappropriate. Please teach children how to read and write and math.

Do you have links to stories about teachers teaching young kids about sex?
concordtom
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NVBear78 said:

They don't. Why do dems and media gaslight Americans 24/7? Do you think kids grade 3 and under should be taught about transgender, sex etc? That's inappropriate. Please teach children how to read and write and math.


We interrupt this conversation to bring you a FOX NEWS ALERT!



Not necessary to spy on you when you're so transparent.
dajo9
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NVBear78 said:

They don't. Why do dems and media gaslight Americans 24/7? Do you think kids grade 3 and under should be taught about transgender, sex etc? That's inappropriate. Please teach children how to read and write and math.
Typical big government conservative, passing needless laws for nonexistent problems to appease their political base
oski003
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Curriculum guidance laws would be less necessary if teachers had at-will employment. The FEA is the largest union in Florida.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oski003 said:

Curriculum guidance laws would be less necessary if teachers had at-will employment. The FEA is the largest union in Florida.
How much lower than almost zero need can you go? You guys aren't even able to give any examples of this happening.
cbbass1
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BearGoggles said:

cbbass1 said:

BearGoggles said:

cbbass1 said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

bearister said:

20 Republican Politicians Brought Down By Big Gay Sex Scandals | NewNowNext


http://www.newnownext.com/19-republican-politicians-gay-sex/12/2016/
Thanks for sharing.

I am still wondering if you know, what does the bill actually say?

Why don't you just google it up yourself instead of asking us to do it for you?

I know what the bills says. Its pretty clear from the posts in this thread that most people don't.

As I read it - as opposed to how it has been portrayed - the law is mostly a statement of parental rights and a restriction on curriculum (and teacher's going off the curriculum).

Section 2 - Basically says that the schools can't provide guidance or counseling in decisions affecting a student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being without parental involvement - with a pretty broad carve out for situations that might result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect.

The fact that this is even controversial is absurd. A parent's rights - and preferences - in these areas absolutely trump those of the teachers/schools (absent abuse, etc.). The fact that many teachers feel it is their role to be involved in this part of a student's life - without parent involvement - is outrageous.

And for those of you who would claim that doesn't happen, read here.

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids?s=r

Section 3 "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students"

Again- how is this controversial? Do we need sex ed for students under 8? Above that age, it should be age appropriate - ABSOULETLY SHOCKING. Age appropriate means that gender and sexual preference issues will be discussed - most likely in high school. Why is that a problem?

Big picture: : "The procedures must reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children by requiring school district personnel to encourage a student to discuss issues relating to his or her well-being with his or her parent or to facilitate discussion of the issue with the parent."

It is not the job of public schools and educators to undermine parents - even if we would agree the parents' views are homophobic (or whatever). Maybe the teachers should just teach math, english, history and science and leave the social issues to parents/churches/outside groups?
The reality is that not all parents are perfect, or even capable of parenting.

You might remember, many years ago, a dramatic increase in the rates of teen suicide. In many cases, the victims were gay children of homophobic parents. They felt rejected and alone, with no one to talk to. No one who would accept them and love them for who they are.

This led to a cultural movement of gay people "coming out" to friends & family. Across the nation, and even in the NFL, people who had been homophobic now had a family member or friend who was gay. Even Dick Cheney.

A cottage industry of cruel, anti-gay, pseudo-science "conversion therapy" camps started up. "Conversion Therapy" was subsequently banned by many states & municipalities, beginning with California in 2012.

The culmination of this was SCOTUS's Obergefell v Hodges decision (2015) that legalized Marriage Equality, citing the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

Without the public schools, gay children of homophobic parents have no institution with a policy of accepting who they are.

The promotion of tolerance and acceptance by schools, public and private, led to widespread acceptance and tolerance of gays (and other races) among young people, and a rejection of homophobes, racists, and Republicans.

The GOP is trying to "put the genie back in the bottle." They're attempting another round of de-funding for Public Education, perceiving it as an anti-American / anti-Republican institution. This is driving U.S. Public Education even further back to the Stone Age.





I don't think its the role of teachers or school administrators to decide who are "good parents" and "bad parents". They are not trained to provide counseling and we have social services to do that in cases of abuse, etc. And they certainly should not be circumventing or undermining parents, even if the we might agree the parents' views are repugnant (at least until the intolerance reaches a level of abuse).
If parents reject their children because they're gay, then they're bad parents.

If parents reject their gay children because they (the parents) are Christian, then they're not even Christian.

You can search the New Testament all you want -- Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

What he did say is "Love your Neighbor as yourself."

It's not complicated.

It is not a teacher place to make any of these judgments.

And I have no idea why you're referring me to the New Testament. I'm not a believer in that book religiously speaking (though I would agree with some of its ethos), but the fact that you're relying on it to justify your position strikes me as quite ironic.

As a counterpoint, there are many people who feel giving puberty blockers to children with gender dysphoria is child abuse and/or horribly damaging. Would you be in favor of schools, teacher and social services intervening based on those beliefs? If a teacher objects to the decision to give puberty blockers, is it ok for the teacher to encourage the student not to take his/her medicine and hide that from their parents? Or is it up to the parent to make that decision in consultation with their advisors?

You can't have it both ways. Maybe the teachers and schools should let the parents make parental decisions?
Schools & teachers don't need to make any judgements.

All they need to do is love & accept the students for who they are, rather than making judgements about them.

My reference to the Bible was regarding the 2nd item. Rejecting or hating anyone for being gay is unChristian.

Medications are a different issue altogether. That's a parent's responsibility.

Puberty blockers?? That's a new one for me. Can't imagine why a parent would want that for their child.

If a student of mine was being forced by their parents to do those, against their will.... I honestly don't know.

Puberty blockers are a part of gender change therapy, or giving children a chance to figure out their identity. That's a decision between parents, their children, and their physician. As a teacher or school administrator, if I had an opinion to share, I'd be pretty damn careful, and I might share my observations with parents (if they were interested), and I'd be as supportive as I can with the student, for sure. And if the student looked like they were unhappy, and were willing to talk, I'd be willing to listen, but I wouldn't go anywhere near any intervention or subversion of any therapy that the student, parents, and doctor are doing.

Teachers are qualified to teach, and to be decent, responsible adult human beings who care about their students. They aren't physicians.
okaydo
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Why aren't other conservative states passing this law? Is Florida the only state where kindergarten, 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers like to talk about sex to their students? Why now? Why is this suddenly a problem?
oski003
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okaydo said:

Why aren't other conservative states passing this law? Is Florida the only state where kindergarten, 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers like to talk about sex to their students? Why now? Why is this suddenly a problem?


15 other states have proposed laws like this in the queue.
going4roses
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My my my what an interesting thread
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
cbbass1
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oski003 said:

Curriculum guidance laws would be less necessary if teachers had at-will employment. The FEA is the largest union in Florida.
There we go. Blame the teachers, and their union, for all that is wrong with U.S. public education.

Never mind that the 40-year conservative campaign of de-funding & privatizing public education has killed what was once one of the best education systems in the world.

If you want more teachers to be conservative, then start 'em at $100k/year. That's how you get teachers to teach "conservative values." If you're not going to do that, then, well, you get what you pay for.

National defense and the education of our youth are both extremely important. The attitude toward their funding should be similar.
oski003
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cbbass1 said:

oski003 said:

Curriculum guidance laws would be less necessary if teachers had at-will employment. The FEA is the largest union in Florida.
There we go. Blame the teachers, and their union, for all that is wrong with U.S. public education.

Never mind that the 40-year conservative campaign of de-funding & privatizing public education has killed what was once one of the best education systems in the world.

If you want more teachers to be conservative, then start 'em at $100k/year. That's how you get teachers to teach "conservative values." If you're not going to do that, then, well, you get what you pay for.

National defense and the education of our youth are both extremely important. The attitude toward their funding should be similar.



Your post is irrelevant to my comment. Schools cannot replace unionized teachers unless they break clear rules. This is a clear rule. Unions are both good and bad.
going4roses
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Lol
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
BearForce2
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okaydo said:

Why aren't other conservative states passing this law? Is Florida the only state where kindergarten, 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers like to talk about sex to their students? Why now? Why is this suddenly a problem?
okaydo
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BearForce2 said:

okaydo said:

Why aren't other conservative states passing this law? Is Florida the only state where kindergarten, 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers like to talk about sex to their students? Why now? Why is this suddenly a problem?


I ask you to produce 5 articles showing this is a problem, you respond with The Babylon Bee.
okaydo
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BearForce2
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okaydo said:

BearForce2 said:

okaydo said:

Why aren't other conservative states passing this law? Is Florida the only state where kindergarten, 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers like to talk about sex to their students? Why now? Why is this suddenly a problem?


I ask you to produce 5 articles showing this is a problem, you respond with The Babylon Bee.

The Babylon Bee, fake news you can trust.
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