GoOskie said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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sycasey said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Great news. Vivek must be gaining in the polls. Okay doh is flooding BI with important news about him.

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IMO Vivek is a lot like RFK Jr., in that he will gain for a bit and then hit a ceiling once people learn about some of the other crazy s*** he believes.

---

My take is that Vivek will say there is smoke (fact) we need to check if there is or was a fire. RFK will say there is smoke (fact) there must have been or is a fire. I see a difference between the two but it is very easy to spin it as both are bat **** crazy. Vivek's wanting to pardon (move on from Trump), while I sort of get, will cost him...if he even has a remote chance as it is.

---

So how many federal agents do you think were on the planes that crashed into the twin towers?

---

Didn't VR say it was "probably zero"? (not worth my time to relisten)

Kinda playing "Gotcha!" with him. Can't they do better?

Big C said:

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GoOskie said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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sycasey said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Great news. Vivek must be gaining in the polls. Okay doh is flooding BI with important news about him.

---

IMO Vivek is a lot like RFK Jr., in that he will gain for a bit and then hit a ceiling once people learn about some of the other crazy s*** he believes.

---

My take is that Vivek will say there is smoke (fact) we need to check if there is or was a fire. RFK will say there is smoke (fact) there must have been or is a fire. I see a difference between the two but it is very easy to spin it as both are bat **** crazy. Vivek's wanting to pardon (move on from Trump), while I sort of get, will cost him...if he even has a remote chance as it is.

---

So how many federal agents do you think were on the planes that crashed into the twin towers?

---

Didn't VR say it was "probably zero"? (not worth my time to relisten)

Kinda playing "Gotcha!" with him. Can't they do better?

---

I just heard, haven't watched, that he said Trump has been the best president in the 20th century. I guess the sad fact is that the more I pay attention to these guys the more picky I become (my problem) and the more disillusioned I become. The CNBC host just said it best, most of the candidates in the race came across saying Trump was a fine president and so they came across as trying to become his VP. Oh boy. Forget that he's a CAREER liar, cheating narcissist that plays fast and loose with facts, to put it mildly. He had some good policies. Oh brother. They've set the bar below ground level for president. I need to shut up and just watch. This politics stuff does me no good.
.

Ingraham: Ok, here’s what the Democrats’ platform is, ready? Pot, porn, Planned Parenthood pic.twitter.com/iOmSFXEzS5

— Acyn (@Acyn) August 23, 2023

okaydo said:

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Ingraham: Ok, here’s what the Democrats’ platform is, ready? Pot, porn, Planned Parenthood pic.twitter.com/iOmSFXEzS5

— Acyn (@Acyn) August 23, 2023

---

Pot, porn, Planned Parenthood.

Sounds pretty good.

Ron DeSantis made a point during the Republican debate to say he was “assigned with” and “deployed alongside” Navy SEALs. DeSantis moved on without further explanation, leaving some observers impressed. Actual Navy SEALs, however, were far less moved. https://t.co/qA4GsQ4cVr

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) August 24, 2023

okaydo said:

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Ron DeSantis made a point during the Republican debate to say he was “assigned with” and “deployed alongside” Navy SEALs. DeSantis moved on without further explanation, leaving some observers impressed. Actual Navy SEALs, however, were far less moved. https://t.co/qA4GsQ4cVr

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) August 24, 2023

---

I will start by saying I didn't watch the debate and don't like Desantis but this is one of the least objectionable things about the dude.

He served his country and even if he was just a lawyer he should be commended. It doesn't really sound like he's gone over the line and he is about 90% less Gravy Seal than a lot of modern GOPers. He does a lot of cringy stuff but doesn't wear a gun lapel pin and doesn't send out christmas cards of his infants holding AR-15s. At least not that I can recall.

Not sure any of this really matters at this point, his goose is cooked for 2024. He's going to have to resort to performative nonsense as the governor of Florida focused on things that Floridians mostly don't care about or, when pressed, don't really agree with, because he's trying to be the guy the super online modern GOPers are looking for, even though what they really still want is their avatar Trump.

Unit2Sucks said:

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okaydo said:

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Ron DeSantis made a point during the Republican debate to say he was “assigned with” and “deployed alongside” Navy SEALs. DeSantis moved on without further explanation, leaving some observers impressed. Actual Navy SEALs, however, were far less moved. https://t.co/qA4GsQ4cVr

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) August 24, 2023

---

I will start by saying I didn't watch the debate and don't like Desantis but this is one of the least objectionable things about the dude.

He served his country and even if he was just a lawyer he should be commended. It doesn't really sound like he's gone over the line and he is about 90% less Gravy Seal than a lot of modern GOPers. He does a lot of cringy stuff but doesn't wear a gun lapel pin and doesn't send out christmas cards of his infants holding AR-15s. At least not that I can recall.

Not sure any of this really matters at this point, his goose is cooked for 2024. He's going to have to resort to performative nonsense as the governor of Florida focused on things that Floridians mostly don't care about or, when pressed, don't really agree with, because he's trying to be the guy the super online modern GOPers are looking for, even though what they really still want is their avatar Trump.

---

I'm pretty sure he mentioned being deployed with the SEALs so he can have street cred with dim witted GOPers who would misinterpret it as him actually being a SEAL.

As a JAG he covered up some bad sh@it at Gitmo.

Vivek Ramaswamy isn’t the only person using his campaign to avoid legal trouble. It seems he has taken the cue from Donald Trump, who is facing a mountain of lawsuits. https://t.co/wZNHGgiKgL

— The New Republic (@newrepublic) August 25, 2023

okaydo said:

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Vivek Ramaswamy isn’t the only person using his campaign to avoid legal trouble. It seems he has taken the cue from Donald Trump, who is facing a mountain of lawsuits. https://t.co/wZNHGgiKgL

— The New Republic (@newrepublic) August 25, 2023

---

The liberal media uses a very loose definition of legal trouble. No facts here indicate that this Republican presidential candidate is in any sort of legal trouble. They just want him to depose him or have him testify in a shareholder lawsuit of companies he was on the board of.

[url=https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1695190882557780442][url=https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1695190882557780442]

The rapper who calls himself the "Mayor of MAGAville" collaborated with One America News for a song called "Real America" -- and it's just as cringe-inducing and unintentionally hilarious as you'd imagine. https://t.co/63U6Z8ny5c

— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) August 25, 2023

[/url][/url]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2023/08/26/fox-news-retracts-marine-story-nicole-gee/






https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/08/23/inside-marine-corps-fight-fox-news-over-false-gold-star-family-story.html

In the urban black community, a mug shot can be an iconic symbol, both of victimization and of greatness. It’s a defiant UP YOURS to “the man.” Think Tupac Shakur. Trump is now the ultimate gangsta in our culture pic.twitter.com/IwEzoEvggI

— Dinesh D'Souza (@DineshDSouza) August 25, 2023

Whew the truth comes out … race/racism is intertwined with Americana

This white male is serious. He makes it clear he hates brown skinned people & immigrants. Whoa, he’s talking genocide. Since whites hate Black ppl so much let’s negotiate a deal to separate. Pay us out reparations, we’ll take 5 southern states & leave us alone. Pay attention‼️ https://t.co/NqsXCyk4Nd

— CeeCee Freedmen (@Ceecee_Freedmen) August 27, 2023

going4roses said:

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This white male is serious. He makes it clear he hates brown skinned people & immigrants. Whoa, he’s talking genocide. Since whites hate Black ppl so much let’s negotiate a deal to separate. Pay us out reparations, we’ll take 5 southern states & leave us alone. Pay attention‼️ https://t.co/NqsXCyk4Nd

— CeeCee Freedmen (@Ceecee_Freedmen) August 27, 2023

---

Why are you posting such a stupid tweet? Do you really believe what Ceecee Freedmen is saying? This is idiotic. Are you really that gullible?

But racism is not a big issue?

here's Vivek's KKK comment for those curious about what exactly he said pic.twitter.com/uPyVTAX1MC

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) August 27, 2023

He literally targeted Black voters for selective arrest to suppress votes. https://t.co/OS0oe5Aqkx

— George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) August 27, 2023

So many fricking layers to this

okaydo said:

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He literally targeted Black voters for selective arrest to suppress votes. https://t.co/OS0oe5Aqkx

— George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) August 27, 2023

---

Targeting black voters in Florida is the norm.

I watched Patent Place as a kid.

Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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He is an awkward son of an immigrant who had to earn his way.

---

Who are you talking about? Ron's parents and grandparents all grew up in Ohio/Pennsylvania.

calbear93 said:

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Uncool at Harvard? Do they even know what that means? There is nothing more discriminatory than white elitist liberalism in the East Coast. I swear people were asking me about my family history, talking about weekend dinners at the Hamptons and what cases of wine their siblings are bringing. These from folks who preached about progressive views. The type of people who would find someone like DeSantis "uncool" are truly the insulated, uncool folks who would not survive a minute in the type of neighborhood I grew up in. Screw that. Many of them ended up becoming my close friends in the professional field, but I never considered what was cool at Harvard actually cool.

And the nonsense about Harvard and Yale producing conservative folks. Where did the liberal politicians like Obama and all of the liberal Supreme Court justices graduate from? Nonsense.

And when will folks realize that Newsom has not being doing a good job for our state?

---

Gavin Newsom isn't running for POTUS on a "Make America Florida" campaign. Newsom is mostly governing for the state and its residents whereas Desantis is clearly governing entirely to support his campaign. Almost nothing he is focused on is designed to solve problems that exist in Florida.

---

You are right on the immigrant side. Got confused on that point based on Trump's attacks on DeSantis and his Italian heritage. It was his great-grandparents who immigrated from Italy.

My point on Newsom is based on the tit-for-tat between Newsom and DeSantis and the fact that you wrote DeSantis is not doing a good job for Florida. Most people I speak to from Florida believe he has made their lives better. Not sure people say the same for Newsom. They definitely did not think he did as a mayor of San Francisco. But all that aside, seems like Newsom is the kind of WASPY, ineffectual, wealthy elitist aura that people want for their politician to be considered cool.

---

I think Newsom is a ****** and I don't like him personally but I think he made SF a better place and he did a lot for marginalized groups. I think the state of California has a lot of unique challenges (as does Florida) but most people I speak to think Newsom is doing well. Last I saw his approval rating was close to 60%. If we don't have a bad fire season, I suspect Newsom will continue to fare well.

You have anecdotes of people you speak to from Florida but the ones I speak to think Desantis is a grandstander whose only concern is for his political aspirations and they already have a more popular version of him in Florida. Last I saw his approval ratings were a few points lower with Florida voters than Newsom's with CA voters.

---

I think that you and I feel totally opposite about SF is interesting and I don't have a solution for that. I don't know you although I hope we meet on the street someday (really mean that). Our views on SF are tough to quantify. I tend to use my eyes having grown up there and now walk in and around most districts in the city, you may know more statistics than I. Like I said, interesting. I have great friends who hold your views. I always listen to them and try to see what they see. The fact that I can't is something that troubles me.

---

Do we feel opposite?

A lot of people look back at Newsom's tenure (2004-2011) as one of SF's heydays (after recovering from the dotcom bust). I get that SF was awesome if you go back to say 1970 (although the Tenderloin was still terrible) but if you don't think the city was good under Newsom, when did you like it here?

By the way, I do agree that it's tough to quantify and that's not really how I think about life in the city. As someone who has lived here for a while, I think about what life is really like. I probably don't get around the city as much as you do so I just speak to what I know. One point that we can probably agree on is that the "locals" have a pretty good sense as to where to hang out and where not to, so from that perspective I probably only tend to visit places and areas that have something desirable to visit. I stay out of the tenderloin, mid market, bayview, etc. unless there is a very specific reason I have to be there. That was true when I was a kid in the 90's, under Newsom and now under Breed.

The 80's and 90's suffered from far more gang violence, and violent crime generally, and that was something that was experienced by way more San Franciscans than the stuff that's happening now. The crack epidemic was a pretty big deal. The western addition has been gentrified and is much cleaner and safer than it used to be. There are other areas where this is true as well - parts of SOMA, Hayes Valley, etc.

What parts of SF do you think are meaningfully worse than the better SF that you remember? Are there parts that you agree are better now?

---

Not addressed to me, but I cannot think of one area that is better.

I lived in both Pacific Heights and Russian Hill before moving to Hillsborough when I lived in the Bay Area.

I don't think Newsom added to San Francisco, because it was pretty awesome when Willie Brown was mayor as well. Newsom didn't mess it up as much as the progressive wanted him to.

Agree that the whole Bay Area during that time was fantastic. It was safe to go running all the way across the Golden Gate Bridge in the morning. The only place that felt sketchy at the time was Tenderloin and maybe bits of Panhandle but otherwise was great and safe. Even late run for burritos and beer in Mission felt safe back then. The last time I went to SF before heading out to Napa, I could not wait to leave the city. Homeless situation and before then gentrification of areas that used to have their own culture made SF just undesirable. Even Union Square and Marina seemed unsafe.

I cannot think of a single place in SF that seems better now than when I lived there. Not Newsom's fault. More gentrification from all the tech money followed by COVID and pandemic and the explosion of homelessness and open drug use, but it is not a place I would ever live in again even if I ever moved back up north.

---

Interesting perspective. It reminds me a bit of inflation - I think it's hard for people to internalize. My Holocaust survivor grandmother thought that $1 bagels were exorbitant and remembered paying $0.05 for them decades prior.

Studies consistently show that people's perception of crime doesn't match reality, with people often thinking crime is rising when it isn't for a variety of reasons.

There is a constant drumbeat of negative news about SF safety that is designed to make people feel this way, much of it narrative driven. I hear it from a lot of different sources.

But when I think on the neighborhood level, it doesn't feel the same. I have friends in Potrero. When they moved there in the early 2000's it was sketchy. A friend of a friend (Cal guy) got shot in the face there by a mugger. It's much safer now in Potrero.

A friend moved to NOPA about 15 years ago because it was "gentrifying" but it was early in the process and she ultimately moved because she didn't feel comfortable with her young kids in that neighborhood. It's fine now.

I'm with my kids right now getting Acai bowls by city college. Used to be a rough neighborhood but is safe and vibrant now.

I've had similar experiences throughout the mission in places that used to be no go zones but are fine now. There are certainly still pockets that I avoid, and they may be worse than before, but they are fewer and more isolated.

I've already mentioned Hayes Valley and the Western Addition.

I too get pulled into the narrative that the city is much worse than it used to be but when I break it down I'm not so sure.

That's why I would love to hear 82's viewpoint (and yours) since I know he walks the whole city (or much of it) and has a historical perspective that might be different from mine.

---

Circling back to this conversation. Drove across the city yesterday with my family to see Cirque du Soleil at the Chase Center. Rather than take muni, we drove because we had to be somewhere right after the show.

It was a beautiful day and a great drive across town (through the Mission/Potrero). For those who haven't been down by Chase Center, it's nothing like the apocalyptic wasteland that people say SF has become. I hear people talk about SF and it sounds like NYC in Escape from NY or in that 70's Warriors movie, but dogpatch/thrive city is vibrant, clean and safe. We street parked and had a pleasant walk to and from Chase Center. It was a beautiful sunny day and we saw lots of families and young people playing at the local park or at the miniature golf place.

That area was pretty much a barren wasteland 10-15 years ago and has been completely transformed by UCSF and all of the development. It might not be a great tourist attraction but for people who live in the city, it's a great new place to hang out and my family spends a lot more time there than we do market street or fisherman's wharf.

Just a reminder that the city still has a lot to offer even if there are some no go zones.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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He is an awkward son of an immigrant who had to earn his way.

---

Who are you talking about? Ron's parents and grandparents all grew up in Ohio/Pennsylvania.

calbear93 said:

---

Uncool at Harvard? Do they even know what that means? There is nothing more discriminatory than white elitist liberalism in the East Coast. I swear people were asking me about my family history, talking about weekend dinners at the Hamptons and what cases of wine their siblings are bringing. These from folks who preached about progressive views. The type of people who would find someone like DeSantis "uncool" are truly the insulated, uncool folks who would not survive a minute in the type of neighborhood I grew up in. Screw that. Many of them ended up becoming my close friends in the professional field, but I never considered what was cool at Harvard actually cool.

And the nonsense about Harvard and Yale producing conservative folks. Where did the liberal politicians like Obama and all of the liberal Supreme Court justices graduate from? Nonsense.

And when will folks realize that Newsom has not being doing a good job for our state?

---

Gavin Newsom isn't running for POTUS on a "Make America Florida" campaign. Newsom is mostly governing for the state and its residents whereas Desantis is clearly governing entirely to support his campaign. Almost nothing he is focused on is designed to solve problems that exist in Florida.

---

You are right on the immigrant side. Got confused on that point based on Trump's attacks on DeSantis and his Italian heritage. It was his great-grandparents who immigrated from Italy.

My point on Newsom is based on the tit-for-tat between Newsom and DeSantis and the fact that you wrote DeSantis is not doing a good job for Florida. Most people I speak to from Florida believe he has made their lives better. Not sure people say the same for Newsom. They definitely did not think he did as a mayor of San Francisco. But all that aside, seems like Newsom is the kind of WASPY, ineffectual, wealthy elitist aura that people want for their politician to be considered cool.

---

I think Newsom is a ****** and I don't like him personally but I think he made SF a better place and he did a lot for marginalized groups. I think the state of California has a lot of unique challenges (as does Florida) but most people I speak to think Newsom is doing well. Last I saw his approval rating was close to 60%. If we don't have a bad fire season, I suspect Newsom will continue to fare well.

You have anecdotes of people you speak to from Florida but the ones I speak to think Desantis is a grandstander whose only concern is for his political aspirations and they already have a more popular version of him in Florida. Last I saw his approval ratings were a few points lower with Florida voters than Newsom's with CA voters.

---

I think that you and I feel totally opposite about SF is interesting and I don't have a solution for that. I don't know you although I hope we meet on the street someday (really mean that). Our views on SF are tough to quantify. I tend to use my eyes having grown up there and now walk in and around most districts in the city, you may know more statistics than I. Like I said, interesting. I have great friends who hold your views. I always listen to them and try to see what they see. The fact that I can't is something that troubles me.

---

Do we feel opposite?

A lot of people look back at Newsom's tenure (2004-2011) as one of SF's heydays (after recovering from the dotcom bust). I get that SF was awesome if you go back to say 1970 (although the Tenderloin was still terrible) but if you don't think the city was good under Newsom, when did you like it here?

By the way, I do agree that it's tough to quantify and that's not really how I think about life in the city. As someone who has lived here for a while, I think about what life is really like. I probably don't get around the city as much as you do so I just speak to what I know. One point that we can probably agree on is that the "locals" have a pretty good sense as to where to hang out and where not to, so from that perspective I probably only tend to visit places and areas that have something desirable to visit. I stay out of the tenderloin, mid market, bayview, etc. unless there is a very specific reason I have to be there. That was true when I was a kid in the 90's, under Newsom and now under Breed.

The 80's and 90's suffered from far more gang violence, and violent crime generally, and that was something that was experienced by way more San Franciscans than the stuff that's happening now. The crack epidemic was a pretty big deal. The western addition has been gentrified and is much cleaner and safer than it used to be. There are other areas where this is true as well - parts of SOMA, Hayes Valley, etc.

What parts of SF do you think are meaningfully worse than the better SF that you remember? Are there parts that you agree are better now?

---

Not addressed to me, but I cannot think of one area that is better.

I lived in both Pacific Heights and Russian Hill before moving to Hillsborough when I lived in the Bay Area.

I don't think Newsom added to San Francisco, because it was pretty awesome when Willie Brown was mayor as well. Newsom didn't mess it up as much as the progressive wanted him to.

Agree that the whole Bay Area during that time was fantastic. It was safe to go running all the way across the Golden Gate Bridge in the morning. The only place that felt sketchy at the time was Tenderloin and maybe bits of Panhandle but otherwise was great and safe. Even late run for burritos and beer in Mission felt safe back then. The last time I went to SF before heading out to Napa, I could not wait to leave the city. Homeless situation and before then gentrification of areas that used to have their own culture made SF just undesirable. Even Union Square and Marina seemed unsafe.

I cannot think of a single place in SF that seems better now than when I lived there. Not Newsom's fault. More gentrification from all the tech money followed by COVID and pandemic and the explosion of homelessness and open drug use, but it is not a place I would ever live in again even if I ever moved back up north.

---

Interesting perspective. It reminds me a bit of inflation - I think it's hard for people to internalize. My Holocaust survivor grandmother thought that $1 bagels were exorbitant and remembered paying $0.05 for them decades prior.

Studies consistently show that people's perception of crime doesn't match reality, with people often thinking crime is rising when it isn't for a variety of reasons.

There is a constant drumbeat of negative news about SF safety that is designed to make people feel this way, much of it narrative driven. I hear it from a lot of different sources.

But when I think on the neighborhood level, it doesn't feel the same. I have friends in Potrero. When they moved there in the early 2000's it was sketchy. A friend of a friend (Cal guy) got shot in the face there by a mugger. It's much safer now in Potrero.

A friend moved to NOPA about 15 years ago because it was "gentrifying" but it was early in the process and she ultimately moved because she didn't feel comfortable with her young kids in that neighborhood. It's fine now.

I'm with my kids right now getting Acai bowls by city college. Used to be a rough neighborhood but is safe and vibrant now.

I've had similar experiences throughout the mission in places that used to be no go zones but are fine now. There are certainly still pockets that I avoid, and they may be worse than before, but they are fewer and more isolated.

I've already mentioned Hayes Valley and the Western Addition.

I too get pulled into the narrative that the city is much worse than it used to be but when I break it down I'm not so sure.

That's why I would love to hear 82's viewpoint (and yours) since I know he walks the whole city (or much of it) and has a historical perspective that might be different from mine.

---

Circling back to this conversation. Drove across the city yesterday with my family to see Cirque du Soleil at the Chase Center. Rather than take muni, we drove because we had to be somewhere right after the show.

It was a beautiful day and a great drive across town (through the Mission/Potrero). For those who haven't been down by Chase Center, it's nothing like the apocalyptic wasteland that people say SF has become. I hear people talk about SF and it sounds like NYC in Escape from NY or in that 70's Warriors movie, but dogpatch/thrive city is vibrant, clean and safe. We street parked and had a pleasant walk to and from Chase Center. It was a beautiful sunny day and we saw lots of families and young people playing at the local park or at the miniature golf place.

That area was pretty much a barren wasteland 10-15 years ago and has been completely transformed by UCSF and all of the development. It might not be a great tourist attraction but for people who live in the city, it's a great new place to hang out and my family spends a lot more time there than we do market street or fisherman's wharf.

Just a reminder that the city still has a lot to offer even if there are some no go zones.

---

That's a nice stock photo of Chase Center from 2019, right after it opened. I absolutely agree that San Francisco is nowhere near Escape from L.A. levels. I have never actually heard anyone say it was. Interesting.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Lucky you didn't get bipped!





He is an awkward son of an immigrant who had to earn his way.

---

Who are you talking about? Ron's parents and grandparents all grew up in Ohio/Pennsylvania.

calbear93 said:

---

Uncool at Harvard? Do they even know what that means? There is nothing more discriminatory than white elitist liberalism in the East Coast. I swear people were asking me about my family history, talking about weekend dinners at the Hamptons and what cases of wine their siblings are bringing. These from folks who preached about progressive views. The type of people who would find someone like DeSantis "uncool" are truly the insulated, uncool folks who would not survive a minute in the type of neighborhood I grew up in. Screw that. Many of them ended up becoming my close friends in the professional field, but I never considered what was cool at Harvard actually cool.

And the nonsense about Harvard and Yale producing conservative folks. Where did the liberal politicians like Obama and all of the liberal Supreme Court justices graduate from? Nonsense.

And when will folks realize that Newsom has not being doing a good job for our state?

---

Gavin Newsom isn't running for POTUS on a "Make America Florida" campaign. Newsom is mostly governing for the state and its residents whereas Desantis is clearly governing entirely to support his campaign. Almost nothing he is focused on is designed to solve problems that exist in Florida.

---

You are right on the immigrant side. Got confused on that point based on Trump's attacks on DeSantis and his Italian heritage. It was his great-grandparents who immigrated from Italy.

My point on Newsom is based on the tit-for-tat between Newsom and DeSantis and the fact that you wrote DeSantis is not doing a good job for Florida. Most people I speak to from Florida believe he has made their lives better. Not sure people say the same for Newsom. They definitely did not think he did as a mayor of San Francisco. But all that aside, seems like Newsom is the kind of WASPY, ineffectual, wealthy elitist aura that people want for their politician to be considered cool.

---

I think Newsom is a ****** and I don't like him personally but I think he made SF a better place and he did a lot for marginalized groups. I think the state of California has a lot of unique challenges (as does Florida) but most people I speak to think Newsom is doing well. Last I saw his approval rating was close to 60%. If we don't have a bad fire season, I suspect Newsom will continue to fare well.

You have anecdotes of people you speak to from Florida but the ones I speak to think Desantis is a grandstander whose only concern is for his political aspirations and they already have a more popular version of him in Florida. Last I saw his approval ratings were a few points lower with Florida voters than Newsom's with CA voters.

---

I think that you and I feel totally opposite about SF is interesting and I don't have a solution for that. I don't know you although I hope we meet on the street someday (really mean that). Our views on SF are tough to quantify. I tend to use my eyes having grown up there and now walk in and around most districts in the city, you may know more statistics than I. Like I said, interesting. I have great friends who hold your views. I always listen to them and try to see what they see. The fact that I can't is something that troubles me.

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Do we feel opposite?

A lot of people look back at Newsom's tenure (2004-2011) as one of SF's heydays (after recovering from the dotcom bust). I get that SF was awesome if you go back to say 1970 (although the Tenderloin was still terrible) but if you don't think the city was good under Newsom, when did you like it here?

By the way, I do agree that it's tough to quantify and that's not really how I think about life in the city. As someone who has lived here for a while, I think about what life is really like. I probably don't get around the city as much as you do so I just speak to what I know. One point that we can probably agree on is that the "locals" have a pretty good sense as to where to hang out and where not to, so from that perspective I probably only tend to visit places and areas that have something desirable to visit. I stay out of the tenderloin, mid market, bayview, etc. unless there is a very specific reason I have to be there. That was true when I was a kid in the 90's, under Newsom and now under Breed.

The 80's and 90's suffered from far more gang violence, and violent crime generally, and that was something that was experienced by way more San Franciscans than the stuff that's happening now. The crack epidemic was a pretty big deal. The western addition has been gentrified and is much cleaner and safer than it used to be. There are other areas where this is true as well - parts of SOMA, Hayes Valley, etc.

What parts of SF do you think are meaningfully worse than the better SF that you remember? Are there parts that you agree are better now?

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Not addressed to me, but I cannot think of one area that is better.

I lived in both Pacific Heights and Russian Hill before moving to Hillsborough when I lived in the Bay Area.

I don't think Newsom added to San Francisco, because it was pretty awesome when Willie Brown was mayor as well. Newsom didn't mess it up as much as the progressive wanted him to.

Agree that the whole Bay Area during that time was fantastic. It was safe to go running all the way across the Golden Gate Bridge in the morning. The only place that felt sketchy at the time was Tenderloin and maybe bits of Panhandle but otherwise was great and safe. Even late run for burritos and beer in Mission felt safe back then. The last time I went to SF before heading out to Napa, I could not wait to leave the city. Homeless situation and before then gentrification of areas that used to have their own culture made SF just undesirable. Even Union Square and Marina seemed unsafe.

I cannot think of a single place in SF that seems better now than when I lived there. Not Newsom's fault. More gentrification from all the tech money followed by COVID and pandemic and the explosion of homelessness and open drug use, but it is not a place I would ever live in again even if I ever moved back up north.

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Interesting perspective. It reminds me a bit of inflation - I think it's hard for people to internalize. My Holocaust survivor grandmother thought that $1 bagels were exorbitant and remembered paying $0.05 for them decades prior.

Studies consistently show that people's perception of crime doesn't match reality, with people often thinking crime is rising when it isn't for a variety of reasons.

There is a constant drumbeat of negative news about SF safety that is designed to make people feel this way, much of it narrative driven. I hear it from a lot of different sources.

But when I think on the neighborhood level, it doesn't feel the same. I have friends in Potrero. When they moved there in the early 2000's it was sketchy. A friend of a friend (Cal guy) got shot in the face there by a mugger. It's much safer now in Potrero.

A friend moved to NOPA about 15 years ago because it was "gentrifying" but it was early in the process and she ultimately moved because she didn't feel comfortable with her young kids in that neighborhood. It's fine now.

I'm with my kids right now getting Acai bowls by city college. Used to be a rough neighborhood but is safe and vibrant now.

I've had similar experiences throughout the mission in places that used to be no go zones but are fine now. There are certainly still pockets that I avoid, and they may be worse than before, but they are fewer and more isolated.

I've already mentioned Hayes Valley and the Western Addition.

I too get pulled into the narrative that the city is much worse than it used to be but when I break it down I'm not so sure.

That's why I would love to hear 82's viewpoint (and yours) since I know he walks the whole city (or much of it) and has a historical perspective that might be different from mine.

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Circling back to this conversation. Drove across the city yesterday with my family to see Cirque du Soleil at the Chase Center. Rather than take muni, we drove because we had to be somewhere right after the show.

It was a beautiful day and a great drive across town (through the Mission/Potrero). For those who haven't been down by Chase Center, it's nothing like the apocalyptic wasteland that people say SF has become. I hear people talk about SF and it sounds like NYC in Escape from NY or in that 70's Warriors movie, but dogpatch/thrive city is vibrant, clean and safe. We street parked and had a pleasant walk to and from Chase Center. It was a beautiful sunny day and we saw lots of families and young people playing at the local park or at the miniature golf place.

That area was pretty much a barren wasteland 10-15 years ago and has been completely transformed by UCSF and all of the development. It might not be a great tourist attraction but for people who live in the city, it's a great new place to hang out and my family spends a lot more time there than we do market street or fisherman's wharf.

Just a reminder that the city still has a lot to offer even if there are some no go zones.

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Lucky you didn't get bipped!

oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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calbear93 said:

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He is an awkward son of an immigrant who had to earn his way.

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Who are you talking about? Ron's parents and grandparents all grew up in Ohio/Pennsylvania.

calbear93 said:

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Uncool at Harvard? Do they even know what that means? There is nothing more discriminatory than white elitist liberalism in the East Coast. I swear people were asking me about my family history, talking about weekend dinners at the Hamptons and what cases of wine their siblings are bringing. These from folks who preached about progressive views. The type of people who would find someone like DeSantis "uncool" are truly the insulated, uncool folks who would not survive a minute in the type of neighborhood I grew up in. Screw that. Many of them ended up becoming my close friends in the professional field, but I never considered what was cool at Harvard actually cool.

And the nonsense about Harvard and Yale producing conservative folks. Where did the liberal politicians like Obama and all of the liberal Supreme Court justices graduate from? Nonsense.

And when will folks realize that Newsom has not being doing a good job for our state?

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Gavin Newsom isn't running for POTUS on a "Make America Florida" campaign. Newsom is mostly governing for the state and its residents whereas Desantis is clearly governing entirely to support his campaign. Almost nothing he is focused on is designed to solve problems that exist in Florida.

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You are right on the immigrant side. Got confused on that point based on Trump's attacks on DeSantis and his Italian heritage. It was his great-grandparents who immigrated from Italy.

My point on Newsom is based on the tit-for-tat between Newsom and DeSantis and the fact that you wrote DeSantis is not doing a good job for Florida. Most people I speak to from Florida believe he has made their lives better. Not sure people say the same for Newsom. They definitely did not think he did as a mayor of San Francisco. But all that aside, seems like Newsom is the kind of WASPY, ineffectual, wealthy elitist aura that people want for their politician to be considered cool.

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I think Newsom is a ****** and I don't like him personally but I think he made SF a better place and he did a lot for marginalized groups. I think the state of California has a lot of unique challenges (as does Florida) but most people I speak to think Newsom is doing well. Last I saw his approval rating was close to 60%. If we don't have a bad fire season, I suspect Newsom will continue to fare well.

You have anecdotes of people you speak to from Florida but the ones I speak to think Desantis is a grandstander whose only concern is for his political aspirations and they already have a more popular version of him in Florida. Last I saw his approval ratings were a few points lower with Florida voters than Newsom's with CA voters.

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I think that you and I feel totally opposite about SF is interesting and I don't have a solution for that. I don't know you although I hope we meet on the street someday (really mean that). Our views on SF are tough to quantify. I tend to use my eyes having grown up there and now walk in and around most districts in the city, you may know more statistics than I. Like I said, interesting. I have great friends who hold your views. I always listen to them and try to see what they see. The fact that I can't is something that troubles me.

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Do we feel opposite?

A lot of people look back at Newsom's tenure (2004-2011) as one of SF's heydays (after recovering from the dotcom bust). I get that SF was awesome if you go back to say 1970 (although the Tenderloin was still terrible) but if you don't think the city was good under Newsom, when did you like it here?

By the way, I do agree that it's tough to quantify and that's not really how I think about life in the city. As someone who has lived here for a while, I think about what life is really like. I probably don't get around the city as much as you do so I just speak to what I know. One point that we can probably agree on is that the "locals" have a pretty good sense as to where to hang out and where not to, so from that perspective I probably only tend to visit places and areas that have something desirable to visit. I stay out of the tenderloin, mid market, bayview, etc. unless there is a very specific reason I have to be there. That was true when I was a kid in the 90's, under Newsom and now under Breed.

The 80's and 90's suffered from far more gang violence, and violent crime generally, and that was something that was experienced by way more San Franciscans than the stuff that's happening now. The crack epidemic was a pretty big deal. The western addition has been gentrified and is much cleaner and safer than it used to be. There are other areas where this is true as well - parts of SOMA, Hayes Valley, etc.

What parts of SF do you think are meaningfully worse than the better SF that you remember? Are there parts that you agree are better now?

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Not addressed to me, but I cannot think of one area that is better.

I lived in both Pacific Heights and Russian Hill before moving to Hillsborough when I lived in the Bay Area.

I don't think Newsom added to San Francisco, because it was pretty awesome when Willie Brown was mayor as well. Newsom didn't mess it up as much as the progressive wanted him to.

Agree that the whole Bay Area during that time was fantastic. It was safe to go running all the way across the Golden Gate Bridge in the morning. The only place that felt sketchy at the time was Tenderloin and maybe bits of Panhandle but otherwise was great and safe. Even late run for burritos and beer in Mission felt safe back then. The last time I went to SF before heading out to Napa, I could not wait to leave the city. Homeless situation and before then gentrification of areas that used to have their own culture made SF just undesirable. Even Union Square and Marina seemed unsafe.

I cannot think of a single place in SF that seems better now than when I lived there. Not Newsom's fault. More gentrification from all the tech money followed by COVID and pandemic and the explosion of homelessness and open drug use, but it is not a place I would ever live in again even if I ever moved back up north.

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Interesting perspective. It reminds me a bit of inflation - I think it's hard for people to internalize. My Holocaust survivor grandmother thought that $1 bagels were exorbitant and remembered paying $0.05 for them decades prior.

Studies consistently show that people's perception of crime doesn't match reality, with people often thinking crime is rising when it isn't for a variety of reasons.

There is a constant drumbeat of negative news about SF safety that is designed to make people feel this way, much of it narrative driven. I hear it from a lot of different sources.

But when I think on the neighborhood level, it doesn't feel the same. I have friends in Potrero. When they moved there in the early 2000's it was sketchy. A friend of a friend (Cal guy) got shot in the face there by a mugger. It's much safer now in Potrero.

A friend moved to NOPA about 15 years ago because it was "gentrifying" but it was early in the process and she ultimately moved because she didn't feel comfortable with her young kids in that neighborhood. It's fine now.

I'm with my kids right now getting Acai bowls by city college. Used to be a rough neighborhood but is safe and vibrant now.

I've had similar experiences throughout the mission in places that used to be no go zones but are fine now. There are certainly still pockets that I avoid, and they may be worse than before, but they are fewer and more isolated.

I've already mentioned Hayes Valley and the Western Addition.

I too get pulled into the narrative that the city is much worse than it used to be but when I break it down I'm not so sure.

That's why I would love to hear 82's viewpoint (and yours) since I know he walks the whole city (or much of it) and has a historical perspective that might be different from mine.

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Circling back to this conversation. Drove across the city yesterday with my family to see Cirque du Soleil at the Chase Center. Rather than take muni, we drove because we had to be somewhere right after the show.

It was a beautiful day and a great drive across town (through the Mission/Potrero). For those who haven't been down by Chase Center, it's nothing like the apocalyptic wasteland that people say SF has become. I hear people talk about SF and it sounds like NYC in Escape from NY or in that 70's Warriors movie, but dogpatch/thrive city is vibrant, clean and safe. We street parked and had a pleasant walk to and from Chase Center. It was a beautiful sunny day and we saw lots of families and young people playing at the local park or at the miniature golf place.

That area was pretty much a barren wasteland 10-15 years ago and has been completely transformed by UCSF and all of the development. It might not be a great tourist attraction but for people who live in the city, it's a great new place to hang out and my family spends a lot more time there than we do market street or fisherman's wharf.

Just a reminder that the city still has a lot to offer even if there are some no go zones.

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That's a nice stock photo of Chase Center from 2019, right after it opened. I absolutely agree that San Francisco is nowhere near Escape from L.A. levels. I have never actually heard anyone say it was. Interesting.

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Looks nice, but very gentrified. I guess for me, when I lived in San Francisco and other than the Marina District, the city had a lot of culture and history. I also felt safe in Union Square walking down Market St or going to Mission for beer and burritos at night. The last time I went to San Francisco, it seemed either gentrified, making it look (at least the safer areas) like almost any city, or deserted or unsafe. Maybe it's because I am older. Even though Southern California has a lot homelessness and crime, I guess I just prefer living next to the ocean if I am going to live in a rich, boring place. Without the SF culture I remembered when I lived there, I prefer Laguna Beach, Manhattan Beach, Rancho Palos Verdes with more space, even better views, and bigger areas of safety.

San Francisco is still a good place to live. However, I just think the things that made my time in SF so great then (nostalgia may be making me overrate my time in city then just like I overrate Blondie's pizza) are just not there to justify the prices and pockets of crime and homelessness as well as the whacky politics.