Why Polls Don't Mean Much Yet

1,369 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by bear2034
heartofthebear
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Over the years early polls have tended to indicate more popularity for certain candidates than turns out to be the case during elections. Why is this?

I believe it has to do with advertising and messaging.
For example, as popular and powerful as Trump seems, the opposition hasn't even begun to advertise and message against him. With so much potential ammunition against Trump and any extremist politics that can be used in advertising, it is only a matter of time until public opinion shifts. Yes the media shapes public opinion, but the supposed populism of Donald Trump is partly a product of the way that Republicans tend to insolate themselves from any news that isn't extreme right wing propaganda.

That won't be as easy to do with advertising. If you don't believe me then just look at what happened in both 2022 when it seemed that there was going to be a red wave until carefully crafted advertising put the issue of abortion front and center.

It is true that most Republicans will still support Trump. But, to win battleground states Republicans and Trump will need opposition and independent voters to have poor turnout. There are plenty of ways for advertisers to galvanize those other voters to come to the polls and vote against Trump. More so than in 2022.

I would say that these advertisers will save their money until they have a better idea of who the nominees will be. And it is still unclear on who that will be. But come next summer, whatever poll results have shown until then, will start to show a pretty steady blueshift, even if very unpopular Biden is the nominee. So those that are being scared into thinking Trump will win because of polls need to take a step back and grasp what the process of influencing public opinion actually involves.
bearister
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Unless tRump's heart explodes like throwing a dump into a fan (which at 5'9 325 lbs is a real possibility), he is going to "win" the election. They won't under estimate the number of "votes" he needs this time around.

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OsoDorado
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heartofthebear said:

Over the years early polls have tended to indicate more popularity for certain candidates than turns out to be the case during elections. Why is this?

I believe it has to do with advertising and messaging.
For example, as popular and powerful as Trump seems, the opposition hasn't even begun to advertise and message against him. With so much potential ammunition against Trump and any extremist politics that can be used in advertising, it is only a matter of time until public opinion shifts. Yes the media shapes public opinion, but the supposed populism of Donald Trump is partly a product of the way that Republicans tend to insolate themselves from any news that isn't extreme right wing propaganda.

That won't be as easy to do with advertising. If you don't believe me then just look at what happened in both 2022 when it seemed that there was going to be a red wave until carefully crafted advertising put the issue of abortion front and center.

It is true that most Republicans will still support Trump. But, to win battleground states Republicans and Trump will need opposition and independent voters to have poor turnout. There are plenty of ways for advertisers to galvanize those other voters to come to the polls and vote against Trump. More so than in 2022.

I would say that these advertisers will save their money until they have a better idea of who the nominees will be. And it is still unclear on who that will be. But come next summer, whatever poll results have shown until then, will start to show a pretty steady blueshift, even if very unpopular Biden is the nominee. So those that are being scared into thinking Trump will win because of polls need to take a step back and grasp what the process of influencing public opinion actually involves.
I quoted your whole post because it perfectly summarizes my thoughts about public opinion polls right now. Biden has a warchest that makes Trump look like the failed businessman and conman that he is, and he's barely spent a cent.

We need to get out and vote to make this a reality, but write this in stone: Biden and his incredible team (led by Cal grad and Cesar Chavez' granddaughter Julie Chavez Rodriguez) will BLOW OUT Trump and his fellow Fascists!

I can't wait for Trump to have no chance of pardoning himself or doing any more damage to our Democracy .... (and, of course, I can't wait to see his criminal fat hide behind bars) !!
calbear93
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OsoDorado said:

heartofthebear said:

Over the years early polls have tended to indicate more popularity for certain candidates than turns out to be the case during elections. Why is this?

I believe it has to do with advertising and messaging.
For example, as popular and powerful as Trump seems, the opposition hasn't even begun to advertise and message against him. With so much potential ammunition against Trump and any extremist politics that can be used in advertising, it is only a matter of time until public opinion shifts. Yes the media shapes public opinion, but the supposed populism of Donald Trump is partly a product of the way that Republicans tend to insolate themselves from any news that isn't extreme right wing propaganda.

That won't be as easy to do with advertising. If you don't believe me then just look at what happened in both 2022 when it seemed that there was going to be a red wave until carefully crafted advertising put the issue of abortion front and center.

It is true that most Republicans will still support Trump. But, to win battleground states Republicans and Trump will need opposition and independent voters to have poor turnout. There are plenty of ways for advertisers to galvanize those other voters to come to the polls and vote against Trump. More so than in 2022.

I would say that these advertisers will save their money until they have a better idea of who the nominees will be. And it is still unclear on who that will be. But come next summer, whatever poll results have shown until then, will start to show a pretty steady blueshift, even if very unpopular Biden is the nominee. So those that are being scared into thinking Trump will win because of polls need to take a step back and grasp what the process of influencing public opinion actually involves.
I quoted your whole post because it perfectly summarizes my thoughts about public opinion polls right now. Biden has a warchest that makes Trump look like the failed businessman and conman that he is, and he's barely spent a cent.

We need to get out and vote to make this a reality, but write this in stone: Biden and his incredible team (led by Cal grad and Cesar Chavez' granddaughter Julie Chavez Rodriguez) will BLOW OUT Trump and his fellow Fascists!

I can't wait for Trump to have no chance of pardoning himself or doing any more damage to our Democracy .... (and, of course, I can't wait to see his criminal fat hide behind bars) !!
Maybe you are right.

I just don't understand the optimism, but I don't claim to be an expert on voter sentiment.

What I don't get is what all that money will do. Will it unearth some unseemly aspect of Trump that is unknown? Has Trump been sheltered by positive media coverage and, once opposition research is unleashed with all that money, people will know how sleazy Trump is?

My FEAR is that Democrats will look at the failures of Trump-lites in other elections and extrapolate that to Trump. And they will think putting an extremely unpopular 80 year old president will carry the day with the same old Trump the Boogeyman tactic.

Still to my befuddlement, Trump has the utmost loyalty from the MAGA crowd and even some non-MAGA who believe the right needs some of their own crazy to offset the craziness of the far left. Not saying that is the right view, but ignoring reality of voter sentiment has never won an election.

Here is what I FEAR. Biden will lose to Trump, not because he doesn't have more money but because there is almost an immovable sentiment from the last three years (and no amount of stats and graphs will make people feel different from what they think they experienced) that Biden is old, catering to the far left, and allows/protects corruption in his family. No need to post arguments to convince me. I am probably more attuned to the economy and secular trends than most so don't think my views will be persuaded by tweets or graphs.

Biden won in 2020 because many conservatives and center-right independents voted for Biden not because they wanted a liberal agenda but because they just wanted to be done with Trump. And yet, Biden took that to be a liberal mandate, and Biden did nothing to make people feel like going against their conservative tendencies was worth it because Biden is so much more competent. As such, many of those same people in purple states who won the election for Biden will just stay away rather than further delude Biden that he had a mandate to push liberal platform as opposed to finding a coalition of moderates from both sides. And mudslinging ads from the Biden team will not change that.

I just don't think Biden is currently so unpopular and building almost cemented incompetency image because his team is hustling the other side and slow playing this.
heartofthebear
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Folks I didn't say Biden would win nor did I say Trump will lose. I said the polls are not an indication of anything right now. I can't say how it works or how it will work over the next year. All I know is that, once the DNC focuses their resources on an opponent they have been able to shift the polls and especially the results. It's all about convincing and galvanizing the undecideds into voting against the opponent. And it's all about focusing people on what the choice is.

I am an independent. I think we need to end the stranglehold of the 2 parties. I don't like having these 2 choices or any 2 choices each election. We should have more choices period.

But that is a different issue. The polls show right now that folks don't like Biden more than that they like Trump. So maybe what happens is that the DNC gets behind someone else. But whoever they get behind and whoever they oppose, they have the machinery to get guys like me to vote with them. I don't really buy in myself, being a little more sophisticated then that.

But a lot of the purple state undecideds are not that sophisticated to be honest. They can and will be manipulated. And, while money itself can't do anything. Money buys influence. And the DNC not only can buy it, they know how to create it.

I don't like the DNC nor do I respect them. But it really doesn't take much to take Trump down. If they fail, it won't surprise me, but the polling is only showing what happens before they are even trying. And that is completely different than what will start to happen midway through next year. So why panic over a poll that reflects very little?
bear2034
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heartofthebear said:

Folks I didn't say Biden would win nor did I say Trump will lose. I said the polls are not an indication of anything right now. I can't say how it works or how it will work over the next year. All I know is that, once the DNC focuses their resources on an opponent they have been able to shift the polls and especially the results. It's all about convincing and galvanizing the undecideds into voting against the opponent. And it's all about focusing people on what the choice is.

I am an independent. I think we need to end the stranglehold of the 2 parties. I don't like having these 2 choices or any 2 choices each election. We should have more choices period.

But that is a different issue. The polls show right now that folks don't like Biden more than that they like Trump. So maybe what happens is that the DNC gets behind someone else. But whoever they get behind and whoever they oppose, they have the machinery to get guys like me to vote with them. I don't really buy in myself, being a little more sophisticated then that.

But a lot of the purple state undecideds are not that sophisticated to be honest. They can and will be manipulated. And, while money itself can't do anything. Money buys influence. And the DNC not only can buy it, they know how to create it.

I don't like the DNC nor do I respect them. But it really doesn't take much to take Trump down. If they fail, it won't surprise me, but the polling is only showing what happens before they are even trying. And that is completely different than what will start to happen midway through next year. So why panic over a poll that reflects very little?

It appears that it does take a lot to take Trump down. The Democrats have been trying for 8 years.
heartofthebear
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bear2034 said:

heartofthebear said:

Folks I didn't say Biden would win nor did I say Trump will lose. I said the polls are not an indication of anything right now. I can't say how it works or how it will work over the next year. All I know is that, once the DNC focuses their resources on an opponent they have been able to shift the polls and especially the results. It's all about convincing and galvanizing the undecideds into voting against the opponent. And it's all about focusing people on what the choice is.

I am an independent. I think we need to end the stranglehold of the 2 parties. I don't like having these 2 choices or any 2 choices each election. We should have more choices period.

But that is a different issue. The polls show right now that folks don't like Biden more than that they like Trump. So maybe what happens is that the DNC gets behind someone else. But whoever they get behind and whoever they oppose, they have the machinery to get guys like me to vote with them. I don't really buy in myself, being a little more sophisticated then that.

But a lot of the purple state undecideds are not that sophisticated to be honest. They can and will be manipulated. And, while money itself can't do anything. Money buys influence. And the DNC not only can buy it, they know how to create it.

I don't like the DNC nor do I respect them. But it really doesn't take much to take Trump down. If they fail, it won't surprise me, but the polling is only showing what happens before they are even trying. And that is completely different than what will start to happen midway through next year. So why panic over a poll that reflects very little?

It appears that it does take a lot to take Trump down. The Democrats have been trying for 8 years.

And they've been succeeding
bear2034
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heartofthebear said:

bear2034 said:


It appears that it does take a lot to take Trump down. The Democrats have been trying for 8 years.
And they've been succeeding

It seems like this has backfired on them.
dimitrig
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$91 million buys a lot more than just 2000 mules


heartofthebear
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bear2034 said:

heartofthebear said:

bear2034 said:


It appears that it does take a lot to take Trump down. The Democrats have been trying for 8 years.
And they've been succeeding

It seems like this has backfired on them.
Get caught in the illusion if you want
bear2034
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dimitrig said:


$91 million buys a lot more than just 2000 mules


Mules were paid $10 a ballot. $400 million goes a long way.
heartofthebear
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bear2034 said:

dimitrig said:


$91 million buys a lot more than just 2000 mules


Mules were paid $10 a ballot. $400 million goes a long way.
I wonder how fools like you are paid.
bear2034
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heartofthebear said:

bear2034 said:

dimitrig said:


$91 million buys a lot more than just 2000 mules.
Mules were paid $10 a ballot. $400 million goes a long way.
I wonder how fools like you are paid.
The same way the Bidens get paid.
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