I am buying a used sedan. And I need advice from those that either work on, drive or otherwise are knowledgable and have opinions about the cars listed. Based on some preliminary but contradictory research results, here is what I am looking for:

• Chevy Cruze
• Chevy Malibu
• Honda Accord
• Honda Civic
• Honda Insight
• Hyundai Accent
• Hyundai Elantra
• Hyundai Sonata
• Kia Forte
• Kia K5
• Kia Rio
• Mazda 3
• Nissan Altima
• Nissan Sentra
• Nissan Versa
• Toyota Camry
• Toyota Civic
• Toyota Prius
• Toyota Yaris

I was also looking at Ford Fiesta and the Volkswagon Passat but so few of them were showing up that matched my interests that I dropped them. I also dropped the Volkswagon Jetta after 2 entirely seperate sources recommended against Volkswagon. Also note that very few of the Insight, K5 and Prius are affordable based on my perameters. Note that there is a glut in the market right now so I am probably NOT going to accept cars that are up against the limit of these perameters since their are many better deals available :

PERAMETERS (somewhat by level of importance, although all are important):

• Condition of car needs to be excellent or like new although a minor accident that has been repaired is okay
• Under $18 K not including taxes and license.
• Fairly local, within a 2-3 hour drive of Santa Cruz county
• City MPG at least 28
• Less than 80,000 K mileage
• Good title
• Back-up camera
• Automatic transmission
• No dark colored cars (means black or very dark grey---I've hit a dear before driving a dark car, never again. Car can be dark blue or bronze.
• Must be able to visit and test drive car so not interested in deliveries or sight unseen internet purchases
• No financing needed
• Not worried about age of Hybrid battery or needing to replace it.
• Must have power going up hills, even steep ones
• Reasonable maintenance costs
• Comfortable to drive
• No unrepaired recalls
• Bluetooth wireless link to sound system
• Prefer that the interior NOT be grey but, in some cases it is light enough to be almost white, which is fine

I am using this mostly for commuting so backseat size and comfort is not an issue, although I would like a reasonable size trunk for hauling things. I really don't want a hatchback or coupe. Only a 4 door sedan please.

I am posting this because, after looking at Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, Vehicle History searches, JD Power, Edmunds and VIN search, it is very confusing to me what rates well. I am aware that the year matters so please mention what year you are referring to as well.

Also, I have already done quite a bit of work and I am intrigued by the Kia Forte and the Hyundai Accent, Nissan Versa and the Chevy Malibu which all of have better MPG in recent years but I am kind of afraid of going outside of the standard set by Honda and Toyota. If it is one of those brands, it will probably be Corolla or Civic.

Thanks in advance for your assistance. I am replacing the Honda 2003 Civic Hybrid I inherited in 2013 that only had 30,000 on it. I have put an additional 100 K on it and have replaced the hybrid battery once in 2018. The problem with that car is it simply doesn't have enough power for the mountains and is too old to compete with today's cars. And I really would like a car with a backup camera. Having driven several of those as rentals, I now feel it is a must for safety.

Ralph Nader swears by these:

Yes on Accord and Camry. No on Prius because of hybrid battery. Don't get a Hyundai that is turbo-charged.

YES on Prius, esp because of the hybrid battery.
we bought a two year-old model off a dealer lot some years ago, getting well over 50 mgp in town, with only two cautions..
o brand dealers over-charge for maintenance.. don't go there
o catalyst thieves love 'em too

Carmax dealers in your area has several Corollas from 2014-2017 that fit your parameters. My experience with them is they are very reliable. What I like about Carmax is you can return the car within 30 days and get a full refund. That gives you plenty of time to get an independent mechanic to check things out.

Also I forgot to mention that I would like to know about when major components like timing belt need to be replaced and what costs are if you happen to know. I can also google that. FYI I'm not so concerned about hybrid battery cost because I have a connection to replace those affordably. But I'd still like to know the expected life of it.

oski003 said:

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Yes on Accord and Camry. No on Prius because of hybrid battery. Don't get a Hyundai that is turbo-charged.

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Thanks but I'm not concerned about cost of replacing hybrid battery.

UrsusTexicanus said:

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Carmax dealers in your area has several Corollas from 2014-2017 that fit your parameters. My experience with them is they are very reliable. What I like about Carmax is you can return the car within 30 days and get a full refund. That gives you plenty of time to get an independent mechanic to check things out.

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Thanks
That helps a bunch

I have spent a substantial amount of time searching amongst many of those same makes/models for my teen son.

Honda's in general are rock solid. Do basic maintenance. Change the timing belt at 85K miles. They last forever and are super super reliable. We are a heavy lean toward a Civic.

Nissan...be careful to read professional reviews (Edmonds, Car & Driver, etc). You start seeing that certain years of some of those models you are looking at commonly have transmission problems @75K miles.

Toyota. See Honda. With regard to Prius be mindful of the hybrid/electric battery (these cars have "regular" car batteries then a 2nd large h/e battery, commonly located under the back seat). They last 100K +/- miles. It costs 1K+ to replace them. We had a Prius before my son crashed it. We would go there again but they are more expensive than some other options so they are currently our Plan B.

Kia and Hyundai generally get good reviews. Some sources call them the new Honda/Toyotas. I'm just not brave enough to go there.

oski003 said:

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Yes on Accord and Camry. No on Prius because of hybrid battery. Don't get a Hyundai that is turbo-charged.

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All 3 of the above are generally too expensive although there are exceptions and I would spring for a hybrid.

heartofthebear said:

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oski003 said:

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Yes on Accord and Camry. No on Prius because of hybrid battery. Don't get a Hyundai that is turbo-charged.

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All 3 of the above are generally too expensive although there are exceptions and I would spring for a hybrid.

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I took them off your list. A Civic or Corolla works as well.

Kia niro hybrid
Mpg!

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

I own two 2018 Mazda 3s sedans. My wife bought hers at the end of 2017 and I bought mine at the end of 2018, both new. They each have about 60k miles, no problems, I change the oil and filter myself, regularly. They get over 30 mpg. They have been great cars so far. And BTW they have timing chains not belts so no maintenance cost there.

oski003 said:

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heartofthebear said:

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oski003 said:

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Yes on Accord and Camry. No on Prius because of hybrid battery. Don't get a Hyundai that is turbo-charged.

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All 3 of the above are generally too expensive although there are exceptions and I would spring for a hybrid.

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I took them off your list. A Civic or Corolla works as well.

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I understand. It wasn't a criticism, just an explanation.

Unit2Sucks said:

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I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

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Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

82gradDLSdad said:

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I own two 2018 Mazda 3s sedans. My wife bought hers at the end of 2017 and I bought mine at the end of 2018, both new. They each have about 60k miles, no problems, I change the oil and filter myself, regularly. They get over 30 mpg. They have been great cars so far. And BTW they have timing chains not belts so no maintenance cost there.

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Thanks.
Our new Subaru also has timing chain.
We got dealer to drop price $500 for replacing timing belt and then found out we didn't need to---LOL
Rarely do you outsmart a used car dealer on cars.

I'm wondering if most cars these days have moved to chains instead of belts.
I'm likely to get something 2018 or newer so I'm hoping that's the case.

The problem I have with the Mazda 3 is that most used ones on the market are black and they don't make interesting colors like bronze, blue or red so much it seems. Or maybe those owners are keeping their cars.

Also I'm not a big fan of the body, which looks more like a coup, hatchback or sportscar than a real sedan. How is the width inside? It seems narrow to me in photos.

heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

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Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

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I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

heartofthebear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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I own two 2018 Mazda 3s sedans. My wife bought hers at the end of 2017 and I bought mine at the end of 2018, both new. They each have about 60k miles, no problems, I change the oil and filter myself, regularly. They get over 30 mpg. They have been great cars so far. And BTW they have timing chains not belts so no maintenance cost there.

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Thanks.
Our new Subaru also has timing chain.
We got dealer to drop price $500 for replacing timing belt and then found out we didn't need to---LOL
Rarely do you outsmart a used car dealer on cars.

I'm wondering if most cars these days have moved to chains instead of belts.
I'm likely to get something 2018 or newer so I'm hoping that's the case.

The problem I have with the Mazda 3 is that most used ones on the market are black and they don't make interesting colors like bronze, blue or red so much it seems. Or maybe those owners are keeping their cars.

Also I'm not a big fan of the body, which looks more like a coup, hatchback or sportscar than a real sedan. How is the width inside? It seems narrow to me in photos.

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My dark blue one seems roomy enough for me. I'm 6'3" 230. I will say I'm not a car guy. These were about $18,000-$19,000 out the door new. The same guy who sold us both cars charged us the same price for the same car a year apart. We bought them because we had owned one earlier, had good luck with it and they were relatively cheap. We gave our old one to our daughter. She just traded it in when she bought a new 2023 Jetta. That car was also relatively inexpensive and simple. Good mileage but I'm not sure how trouble free it will be.

Thank you. There are not as many Mazda 3 available as some of the others but I'll make to make them more of a priority. Right now I have completed my initial searches and I'm reorganing all of my findings so that I can narrow choices down and then actually do some test driving. I'm hoping to make a purchase in January at the latest.

The decision is simple. Toyota makes the best, most reliable cars in the world. Get a low mileage certified Toyota Camry and thank me later.

heartofthebear said:

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Thank you. There are not as many Mazda 3 available as some of the others but I'll make to make them more of a priority. Right now I have completed my initial searches and I'm reorganing all of my findings so that I can narrow choices down and then actually do some test driving. I'm hoping to make a purchase in January at the latest.

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It's too bad the timing isn't better. Once I start driving again I may sell my car and look into a FSD Tesla. Full Self Driving automation may be my one last bit of insurance against a seizure while driving. I've been seizure free for the required time and passed all the tests to drive. I'm now only awaiting approval from the DMV. I'm comfortable driving but I may feel fully safe if FSD turns out to be all that it promises.

I have a Prius and Camry. Both have been great cars. Just bought a 24 Camry also. Will run my Prius into the ground and probably buy another one with plug in capability. Toyotas are great cars.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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The decision is simple. Toyota makes the best, most reliable cars in the world. Get a low mileage certified Toyota Camry and thank me later.

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hard to find one with good gas mileage that is also in my price range but I might spring for a hybrid that is older. Folks don't want to replace the battery so they drop the price. I have a connection for hybrid batteries that makes replacing them affordable.

I had a Camry once that burned up in my driveway. Mice!!!
It was an older version that I inherited from my brother.
I liked it.

More likely I get a Corolla because I can usually find better deals but would love a Camry. The fuller size sedans have more of the power I need in the mountains but it's harder to get the MPG and the price-point. There are some deals out there though because there is so much available right now. It just depends on how far I'd have to travel.

82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Thank you. There are not as many Mazda 3 available as some of the others but I'll make to make them more of a priority. Right now I have completed my initial searches and I'm reorganing all of my findings so that I can narrow choices down and then actually do some test driving. I'm hoping to make a purchase in January at the latest.

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It's too bad the timing isn't better. Once I start driving again I may sell my car and look into a FSD Tesla. Full Self Driving automation may be my one last bit of insurance against a seizure while driving. I've been seizure free for the required time and passed all the tests to drive. I'm now only awaiting approval from the DMV. I'm comfortable driving but I may feel fully safe if FSD turns out to be all that it promises.

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There is no rush for me if I am buying from owner. I am buying now because dealers are dropping prices because there is a glut and they are trying to free up inventory for newer models. It is a buyer's market right now. I could come by and test drive it but I can find dealers to do that with as well. I would like to get a car more sooner than later though. If you offer me a deal, and I like the car, I might be willing to wait. I am leaning towards a Toyota though based on multiple sources of feedback both here and elsewhere.

Does anybody like Nissan's?
I'm wondering because I've driven them as rentals quite a bit and I have always liked them.
My friend, who has an Altima turned me on to the Altima but I also like the Versa and to a lesser degree the Sentra.

Just curious since nobody has mentioned the Nissans.

I was leaning towards a Nissan prior to getting all of the feedback.

heartofthebear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Thank you. There are not as many Mazda 3 available as some of the others but I'll make to make them more of a priority. Right now I have completed my initial searches and I'm reorganing all of my findings so that I can narrow choices down and then actually do some test driving. I'm hoping to make a purchase in January at the latest.

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It's too bad the timing isn't better. Once I start driving again I may sell my car and look into a FSD Tesla. Full Self Driving automation may be my one last bit of insurance against a seizure while driving. I've been seizure free for the required time and passed all the tests to drive. I'm now only awaiting approval from the DMV. I'm comfortable driving but I may feel fully safe if FSD turns out to be all that it promises.

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There is no rush for me if I am buying from owner. I am buying now because dealers are dropping prices because there is a glut and they are trying to free up inventory for newer models. It is a buyer's market right now. I could come by and test drive it but I can find dealers to do that with as well. I would like to get a car more sooner than later though. If you offer me a deal, and I like the car, I might be willing to wait. I am leaning towards a Toyota though based on multiple sources of feedback both here and elsewhere.

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I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. There are a lot of things for me to work out and most importantly to convince my wife that I will be as safe as I possibly can be driving or have a Tesla drive for me. That's going to take some time. Plus, me and my wife have to come to terms with spending more money on a FSD Tesla than we've spent on any purchase other than our house.

82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Thank you. There are not as many Mazda 3 available as some of the others but I'll make to make them more of a priority. Right now I have completed my initial searches and I'm reorganing all of my findings so that I can narrow choices down and then actually do some test driving. I'm hoping to make a purchase in January at the latest.

---

It's too bad the timing isn't better. Once I start driving again I may sell my car and look into a FSD Tesla. Full Self Driving automation may be my one last bit of insurance against a seizure while driving. I've been seizure free for the required time and passed all the tests to drive. I'm now only awaiting approval from the DMV. I'm comfortable driving but I may feel fully safe if FSD turns out to be all that it promises.

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There is no rush for me if I am buying from owner. I am buying now because dealers are dropping prices because there is a glut and they are trying to free up inventory for newer models. It is a buyer's market right now. I could come by and test drive it but I can find dealers to do that with as well. I would like to get a car more sooner than later though. If you offer me a deal, and I like the car, I might be willing to wait. I am leaning towards a Toyota though based on multiple sources of feedback both here and elsewhere.

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I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. There are a lot of things for me to work out and most importantly to convince my wife that I will be as safe as I possibly can be driving or have a Tesla drive for me. That's going to take some time. Plus, me and my wife have to come to terms with spending more money on a FSD Tesla than we've spent on any purchase other than our house.

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No problem
Thanks for thinking of me

82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Thank you. There are not as many Mazda 3 available as some of the others but I'll make to make them more of a priority. Right now I have completed my initial searches and I'm reorganing all of my findings so that I can narrow choices down and then actually do some test driving. I'm hoping to make a purchase in January at the latest.

---

It's too bad the timing isn't better. Once I start driving again I may sell my car and look into a FSD Tesla. Full Self Driving automation may be my one last bit of insurance against a seizure while driving. I've been seizure free for the required time and passed all the tests to drive. I'm now only awaiting approval from the DMV. I'm comfortable driving but I may feel fully safe if FSD turns out to be all that it promises.

---

There is no rush for me if I am buying from owner. I am buying now because dealers are dropping prices because there is a glut and they are trying to free up inventory for newer models. It is a buyer's market right now. I could come by and test drive it but I can find dealers to do that with as well. I would like to get a car more sooner than later though. If you offer me a deal, and I like the car, I might be willing to wait. I am leaning towards a Toyota though based on multiple sources of feedback both here and elsewhere.

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I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. There are a lot of things for me to work out and most importantly to convince my wife that I will be as safe as I possibly can be driving or have a Tesla drive for me. That's going to take some time. Plus, me and my wife have to come to terms with spending more money on a FSD Tesla than we've spent on any purchase other than our house.

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If you were to get into an accident, there may not be a safer car in the world than a Tesla. They have had some pretty phenomenal crash test results.

Unfortunately Musk has been lying about FSD's capabilities from the get go. Pretty unbelievable that he was charging people $5k for it 7+ years ago and was charging $15k for it at one point. And I believe the original cars don't even have the sensors that would allow them to run whatever version of FSD actually provides autonomy. He claims FSD will be out of beta soon with the upcoming v12 but he's been lying about it for so long, would it surprise anyone if he does another bait and switch? A lot of experts say that Tesla's approach is not capable of producing a true self-driving system because it eschews lidar as well as GPS/mapping and just relies on computer vision. Tesla doesn't even have ultrasonic parking sensors any more (I think to save a few dozen dollars when building cars).

Moral of the story, I wouldn't buy a Tesla on the expectation it will eventually deliver some magical self-driving experience until they actually have it live. But if you want the safest possible vehicle to protect you and your family in a crash, get a Tesla. I don't think any other automaker is even close based on what I've seen from them.

Unit2Sucks said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Thank you. There are not as many Mazda 3 available as some of the others but I'll make to make them more of a priority. Right now I have completed my initial searches and I'm reorganing all of my findings so that I can narrow choices down and then actually do some test driving. I'm hoping to make a purchase in January at the latest.

---

It's too bad the timing isn't better. Once I start driving again I may sell my car and look into a FSD Tesla. Full Self Driving automation may be my one last bit of insurance against a seizure while driving. I've been seizure free for the required time and passed all the tests to drive. I'm now only awaiting approval from the DMV. I'm comfortable driving but I may feel fully safe if FSD turns out to be all that it promises.

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There is no rush for me if I am buying from owner. I am buying now because dealers are dropping prices because there is a glut and they are trying to free up inventory for newer models. It is a buyer's market right now. I could come by and test drive it but I can find dealers to do that with as well. I would like to get a car more sooner than later though. If you offer me a deal, and I like the car, I might be willing to wait. I am leaning towards a Toyota though based on multiple sources of feedback both here and elsewhere.

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I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. There are a lot of things for me to work out and most importantly to convince my wife that I will be as safe as I possibly can be driving or have a Tesla drive for me. That's going to take some time. Plus, me and my wife have to come to terms with spending more money on a FSD Tesla than we've spent on any purchase other than our house.

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If you were to get into an accident, there may not be a safer car in the world than a Tesla. They have had some pretty phenomenal crash test results.

Unfortunately Musk has been lying about FSD's capabilities from the get go. Pretty unbelievable that he was charging people $5k for it 7+ years ago and was charging $15k for it at one point. And I believe the original cars don't even have the sensors that would allow them to run whatever version of FSD actually provides autonomy. He claims FSD will be out of beta soon with the upcoming v12 but he's been lying about it for so long, would it surprise anyone if he does another bait and switch? A lot of experts say that Tesla's approach is not capable of producing a true self-driving system because it eschews lidar as well as GPS/mapping and just relies on computer vision. Tesla doesn't even have ultrasonic parking sensors any more (I think to save a few dozen dollars when building cars).

Moral of the story, I wouldn't buy a Tesla on the expectation it will eventually deliver some magical self-driving experience until they actually have it live. But if you want the safest possible vehicle to protect you and your family in a crash, get a Tesla. I don't think any other automaker is even close based on what I've seen from them.

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Thank you. I will relook at Tesla FSD. I took a ride in a neighbor's and he not only had it drive us with FSD he told me that it saved his life by pulling the car over after he had fallen asleep. That's the exact scenario I need to protect against. I'm fine day-to-day, moment-to-moment. What I can't and couldn't predict was blacking out with absolutely zero notice. It's only happened once (and then other minor seizures which all now seem to be drug controlled) but that one time has put a lot of activities in my life in question. Since I'm a 30 year automation programmer I believe in the power of AI but I definitely know it's not magic and I fear I may just be too early, ie. too old.
Good luck with your car search.

Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.
Are you saying I don't need to charge it at all if I don't want to?
Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

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Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

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I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.
Are you saying I don't need to charge it at all if I don't want to?
Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

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I was not familiar with PHEV tech before you mentioned the Volt. L O V E this version of EV. I see myself and the wife buying one eventually

Stick with the tried and true: Toyota Camry or Corolla (or maybe Prius). Honda Accord or Civic. Reliability isn't the sexiest feature, but car problems are decidedly unsexy.

You said you have a Subaru? The Subaru Legacy is another solid option.

If the Hyndais/Kias still have the 10 year warrantees, that is a consideration.


My experiences:

I have had two Mazdas, but they start to have problems after 5-7 years or 60-70,000 miles. They are not built to last.

We have had a Prius for 10 years. No problems. Haven't had to replace the battery yet. Surprisingly haven't had the catalytic converter stolen yet. Would recommend.

I'm into compact SUVs now: I like the higher ground clearance and the better view you get from being 6-12 inches higher. Also easier to get in and out of, especially if you ever have a bad back or neck. No more sedans for me.

tequila4kapp said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.
Are you saying I don't need to charge it at all if I don't want to?
Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

---

I was not familiar with PHEV tech before you mentioned the Volt. L O V E this version of EV. I see myself and the wife buying one eventually

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I am now a big fan of the plug-in hybrid. My wife and I traded in our respective Tesla X, and I got the iX M60 and my wife got the X5 xdrive50e. Although we use my iX most of the time when we go places together, my wife uses her X5 on electric-only mode most of the day for her daily activities. And for long road trips, we can take the X5 without worrying about having to charge in the middle of the trip. I love my wife's X5 and love the plug-in hybrid feature. While Tesla Xs were great cars, we deeply regretted getting two fully electric. Would never do that again. At least one of our cars will have to be a plug-in hybrid at least. And BMW definitely handles better than Tesla. Will see how the car holds up (got the 7 year extended warranty and the cars come with 8 year battery warranty so at least we are covered), but so far so good. And good to have Car Play again.

Big C said:

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Stick with the tried and true: Toyota Camry or Corolla. Honda Accord or Civic. Reliability isn't the sexiest feature, but car problems are decidedly unsexy.

You said you have a Subaru? The Subaru Legacy is another solid option.


My experiences:

I have had two Mazdas, but they start to have problems after 5-7 years or 60-70,000 miles. They are not built to last.

We have had a Prius for 10 years. No problems. Haven't had to replace the battery yet. Surprisingly haven't had the catalytic converter stolen yet. Would recommend.

I'm into compact SUVs now: I like the higher ground clearance and the better view you get from being 6-12 inches higher. Also easier to get in and out of, especially if you ever have a bad back or neck. No more sedans for me.

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What problems did you have with the Mazdas? My daughter drove our old one into the ground and it still was going when she decided it was time to get her first new car at 38. I think it had 160k miles. We've had our Mazda 3s for only 5 years or so and we are right around the mileage where you had your problems. I honestly don't remember why we went with Mazda. We used to drive Hondas. They were fine too. I think Mazda was cheaper.