Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

82gradDLSdad said:

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Big C said:

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Stick with the tried and true: Toyota Camry or Corolla. Honda Accord or Civic. Reliability isn't the sexiest feature, but car problems are decidedly unsexy.

You said you have a Subaru? The Subaru Legacy is another solid option.


My experiences:

I have had two Mazdas, but they start to have problems after 5-7 years or 60-70,000 miles. They are not built to last.

We have had a Prius for 10 years. No problems. Haven't had to replace the battery yet. Surprisingly haven't had the catalytic converter stolen yet. Would recommend.

I'm into compact SUVs now: I like the higher ground clearance and the better view you get from being 6-12 inches higher. Also easier to get in and out of, especially if you ever have a bad back or neck. No more sedans for me.

---

What problems did you have with the Mazdas? My daughter drove our old one into the ground and it still was going when she decided it was time to get her first new car at 38. I think it had 160k miles. We've had our Mazda 3s for only 5 years or so and we are right around the mileage where you had your problems. I honestly don't remember why we went with Mazda. We used to drive Hondas. They were fine too. I think Mazda was cheaper.

---

Having had two Mazdas, I feel like I had enough of a sample: They are light weight, great fit-and-finish, good performance and handling and fuel economy, but they are not built to last. Most notably the suspension on my Mazda 5 (great mini-mini van) basically started to fall apart (nothing in the mountains, but lots of short trips and stop and go driving). Mega-bucks to fix, after only 7 yrs, 70.000 miles.

So I would consider a Mazda again only if I intended to get rid of it kinda early, or on a lease. Hondas and especially Toyotas are tougher vehicles.

PS: Agree with calbear93 about not having two EVs, at least at this point. Had a bad experience needing to recharge a Tesla recently: it might be easy, or it might not... and who needs that?

heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

---

Yeah, I don't have a garage. But I do have outside outlets but I'm not sure how safe it is to charge outside in bad weather etc. We also have rodents that chew on wires. I had one car burn up as a result. I live in the country and it rains over 60 inches per year here. We also get bad wind, power blackouts etc. I just don't think I want to mess with a plug in. But I did look up the volt and was surprised to find that there are some that meet my rather stringent parameters.

Big C said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Big C said:

---

Stick with the tried and true: Toyota Camry or Corolla. Honda Accord or Civic. Reliability isn't the sexiest feature, but car problems are decidedly unsexy.

You said you have a Subaru? The Subaru Legacy is another solid option.


My experiences:

I have had two Mazdas, but they start to have problems after 5-7 years or 60-70,000 miles. They are not built to last.

We have had a Prius for 10 years. No problems. Haven't had to replace the battery yet. Surprisingly haven't had the catalytic converter stolen yet. Would recommend.

I'm into compact SUVs now: I like the higher ground clearance and the better view you get from being 6-12 inches higher. Also easier to get in and out of, especially if you ever have a bad back or neck. No more sedans for me.

---

What problems did you have with the Mazdas? My daughter drove our old one into the ground and it still was going when she decided it was time to get her first new car at 38. I think it had 160k miles. We've had our Mazda 3s for only 5 years or so and we are right around the mileage where you had your problems. I honestly don't remember why we went with Mazda. We used to drive Hondas. They were fine too. I think Mazda was cheaper.

---

Having had two Mazdas, I feel like I had enough of a sample: They are light weight, great fit-and-finish, good performance and handling and fuel economy, but they are not built to last. Most notably the suspension on my Mazda 5 (great mini-mini van) basically started to fall apart (nothing in the mountains, but lots of short trips and stop and go driving). Mega-bucks to fix, after only 7 yrs, 70.000 miles.

So I would consider a Mazda again only if I intended to get rid of it kinda early, or on a lease. Hondas and especially Toyotas are tougher vehicles.

PS: Agree with calbear93 about not having two EVs, at least at this point. Had a bad experience needing to recharge a Tesla recently: it might be easy, or it might not... and who needs that?

---

Thank you. My wife is now doing all the driving and she is a 'master' at staying in the slow lane (even though she drives fast enough to have to pass everyone) and thus she finds all the potholes left by trucks. Forewarned.

Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

---

The volt sounds great. When you retire you should get a retirement job selling volts. I'm not a GM fan but you've peaked my interest.

Anybody have advice on how to contact Quickbooks?

heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

As I understand it, you plug the Volt in overnight. It has enough juice for your daily commute. Otherwise you just drive it like a regular car and don't sweat anything. It's the best of both worlds.

I love this concept because my big issue with pure EV is the recharge on longer trips, which basically makes that tech a no go for me.

tequila4kapp said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

As I understand it, you plug the Volt in overnight. It has enough juice for your daily commute. Otherwise you just drive it like a regular car and don't sweat anything. It's the best of both worlds.

I love this concept because my big issue with pure EV is the recharge on longer trips, which basically makes that tech a no go for me.

---

If you have a wall charger at home, takes about two hours to charge the plug-in hybrid for daily needs. People usually don't take the battery to 0% and most charge only to 80% to keep the battery healthy. We replaced the Tesla wall charger with the bmw. The 80-100 takes the longest and we rarely do that. Even though it's slower than Tesla, we share the same BMW charger for our cars and works great. The wall chargers are well worth the cost.

tequila4kapp said:

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heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I love this concept because my big issue with pure EV is the recharge on longer trips, which basically makes that tech a no go for me.

---

I hear this concern a lot. I don't know your family circumstances but most families have 2 cars. For example, we have 1 EV and 1 Highlander hybrid (~35 mpg). I have a longer commute than my wife and drive the EV day to day. My wife drives the Highlander. If you need to take a long trip and are unsure about charging, you take the Highlander. It's pretty simple really.

All long trips are different but I frequently take the EV for them. Stop somewhere off the freeway, have a meal, come back to your car and it is charged. If I were driving all day, I might take the Highlander instead but it's really rare that my EV would be a no-go for charging reasons.

82gradDLSdad said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

---

The volt sounds great. When you retire you should get a retirement job selling volts. I'm not a GM fan but you've peaked my interest.

---

Mary Barra Venmos me every time a used Volt changes hands. But seriously, the Volts are pretty cool - they are pretty much the only example of a series hybrid in wide production. Series means that the internal combustion engine isn't connected to the wheels - it just charges the battery. The electric motors always drives the wheels. The big benefit, in addition to simpler mechanics over parallel hybrids, is that the engine is never really stressed because it's built to operate at the most efficient rpm. This also increases freeway MPG for road trips.

It's a shame no one else is building series hybrids because given all the problems with charging infrastructure, these cars would be a really good option for a lot of 1-car families.

Doesn't sound like it's what heart is looking for but I did want to mention one point. These cars are fine to charge outdoors, even in the rain. All EVs are designed for this and it apparently doesn't present any long term issues. People have been doing it for over a decade now with various EVs.

I wanted to buy a Volt a few years ago - they were eligible for the federal rebate and were selling brand new for low 20's but the packaging didn't work for us. We needed a bit more room for our family and they never came out with a CUV Volt which would have been perfect.

Unit2Sucks said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

---

The volt sounds great. When you retire you should get a retirement job selling volts. I'm not a GM fan but you've peaked my interest.

---

Mary Barra Venmos me every time a used Volt changes hands. But seriously, the Volts are pretty cool - they are pretty much the only example of a series hybrid in wide production. Series means that the internal combustion engine isn't connected to the wheels - it just charges the battery. The electric motors always drives the wheels. The big benefit, in addition to simpler mechanics over parallel hybrids, is that the engine is never really stressed because it's built to operate at the most efficient rpm. This also increases freeway MPG for road trips.

It's a shame no one else is building series hybrids because given all the problems with charging infrastructure, these cars would be a really good option for a lot of 1-car families.

Doesn't sound like it's what heart is looking for but I did want to mention one point. These cars are fine to charge outdoors, even in the rain. All EVs are designed for this and it apparently doesn't present any long term issues. People have been doing it for over a decade now with various EVs.

I wanted to buy a Volt a few years ago - they were eligible for the federal rebate and were selling brand new for low 20's but the packaging didn't work for us. We needed a bit more room for our family and they never came out with a CUV Volt which would have been perfect.

---

You might have sold me. I know that a coworker bought one not too long after they first came out and raved about it for months. As long as I don't have to charge it regularly, I'm good. It sounds like you can use gas or electric and the gas efficiency is still really good without the electric so it's not necessary economically either. I'm happy to charge it occasionally or even most of the time. I just don't want to be in a position where I have to charge it in order to drive it. I have been in that situation with a rental and it literally was a nightmare for me and I will probably never rent from Hertz again who essentially forced me to take a plug-in when I had reserved something else.

BTW, an interesting side note/question: Does anybody know why there is such a glut for used cars now? I have never seen so many choices. My theory is that the rental companies are selling their gas cars and getting plug-ins because gas is too expensive and, little known fact, rental companies have to drive their cars as well as the customer. Hertz went bankrupt so they may be leading the charge (no pun intended) here. I know that Hertz has a lot of cars on the market right now.

Anyway, for whatever reason, it's a good time to buy!!!
Just 8 months ago we had to replace our Subaru Outback due to a weather disaster and it was not anywhere near as good as it is now. Although we did find a deal on a gorgeous gold 2014 in immaculate condition, it had over 120 grand on it and still cost over $14 grand. Now you can get cars with less than 50 grand on it for the same price.

heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

---

The volt sounds great. When you retire you should get a retirement job selling volts. I'm not a GM fan but you've peaked my interest.

---

Mary Barra Venmos me every time a used Volt changes hands. But seriously, the Volts are pretty cool - they are pretty much the only example of a series hybrid in wide production. Series means that the internal combustion engine isn't connected to the wheels - it just charges the battery. The electric motors always drives the wheels. The big benefit, in addition to simpler mechanics over parallel hybrids, is that the engine is never really stressed because it's built to operate at the most efficient rpm. This also increases freeway MPG for road trips.

It's a shame no one else is building series hybrids because given all the problems with charging infrastructure, these cars would be a really good option for a lot of 1-car families.

Doesn't sound like it's what heart is looking for but I did want to mention one point. These cars are fine to charge outdoors, even in the rain. All EVs are designed for this and it apparently doesn't present any long term issues. People have been doing it for over a decade now with various EVs.

I wanted to buy a Volt a few years ago - they were eligible for the federal rebate and were selling brand new for low 20's but the packaging didn't work for us. We needed a bit more room for our family and they never came out with a CUV Volt which would have been perfect.

---

You might have sold me. I know that a coworker bought one not too long after they first came out and raved about it for months. As long as I don't have to charge it regularly, I'm good. It sounds like you can use gas or electric and the gas efficiency is still really good without the electric so it's not necessary economically either. I'm happy to charge it occasionally or even most of the time. I just don't want to be in a position where I have to charge it in order to drive it. I have been in that situation with a rental and it literally was a nightmare for me and I will probably never rent from Hertz again who essentially forced me to take a plug-in when I had reserved something else.

BTW, an interesting side note/question: Does anybody know why there is such a glut for used cars now? I have never seen so many choices. My theory is that the rental companies are selling their gas cars and getting plug-ins because gas is too expensive and, little known fact, rental companies have to drive their cars as well as the customer. Hertz went bankrupt so they may be leading the charge (no pun intended) here. I know that Hertz has a lot of cars on the market right now.

Anyway, for whatever reason, it's a good time to buy!!!
Just 8 months ago we had to replace our Subaru Outback due to a weather disaster and it was not anywhere near as good as it is now. Although we did find a deal on a gorgeous gold 2014 in immaculate condition, it had over 120 grand on it and still cost over $14 grand. Now you can get cars with less than 50 grand on it for the same price.

---

One of the reasons for the prior spike in price and demand for used cars was the supply chain shortages, including shortage in chips. With manufacturers unable to meet demand in 2021 and 2022, the expected spike in used car price occurred.

Now that there is more manufacturing capacity, demand for used car has gone down. As such, more supply of used cars in the market with resulting drop in price.

Even the price of new EV price has gone down based on demand and cost of financing. I am a cash buyer because I hate debt, even the implied debt in a lease, and so rarely got deals on car purchases that are usually based on financing incentives. But I was able to get a good deal on the iX M60 because there were more vehicles than demand, especially with the controversial grill (which I am OK with). The X5 e50 however was full price and in high demand so we had to order specifically. It was cool seeing the process / updates on the manufacture process, including going to the dock, in transit, etc. in the BMW app, but there was no incentive for the plug-in hybrid.

heartofthebear said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

---

The volt sounds great. When you retire you should get a retirement job selling volts. I'm not a GM fan but you've peaked my interest.

---

Mary Barra Venmos me every time a used Volt changes hands. But seriously, the Volts are pretty cool - they are pretty much the only example of a series hybrid in wide production. Series means that the internal combustion engine isn't connected to the wheels - it just charges the battery. The electric motors always drives the wheels. The big benefit, in addition to simpler mechanics over parallel hybrids, is that the engine is never really stressed because it's built to operate at the most efficient rpm. This also increases freeway MPG for road trips.

It's a shame no one else is building series hybrids because given all the problems with charging infrastructure, these cars would be a really good option for a lot of 1-car families.

Doesn't sound like it's what heart is looking for but I did want to mention one point. These cars are fine to charge outdoors, even in the rain. All EVs are designed for this and it apparently doesn't present any long term issues. People have been doing it for over a decade now with various EVs.

I wanted to buy a Volt a few years ago - they were eligible for the federal rebate and were selling brand new for low 20's but the packaging didn't work for us. We needed a bit more room for our family and they never came out with a CUV Volt which would have been perfect.

---

You might have sold me. I know that a coworker bought one not too long after they first came out and raved about it for months. As long as I don't have to charge it regularly, I'm good. It sounds like you can use gas or electric and the gas efficiency is still really good without the electric so it's not necessary economically either. I'm happy to charge it occasionally or even most of the time. I just don't want to be in a position where I have to charge it in order to drive it. I have been in that situation with a rental and it literally was a nightmare for me and I will probably never rent from Hertz again who essentially forced me to take a plug-in when I had reserved something else.

BTW, an interesting side note/question: Does anybody know why there is such a glut for used cars now? I have never seen so many choices. My theory is that the rental companies are selling their gas cars and getting plug-ins because gas is too expensive and, little known fact, rental companies have to drive their cars as well as the customer. Hertz went bankrupt so they may be leading the charge (no pun intended) here. I know that Hertz has a lot of cars on the market right now.

Anyway, for whatever reason, it's a good time to buy!!!
Just 8 months ago we had to replace our Subaru Outback due to a weather disaster and it was not anywhere near as good as it is now. Although we did find a deal on a gorgeous gold 2014 in immaculate condition, it had over 120 grand on it and still cost over $14 grand. Now you can get cars with less than 50 grand on it for the same price.

---

Sounds like the Volt is definitely worth a look for you. My in-laws have had each generation and I greatly prefer driving the 2nd gen (I think 2016-2019). They improved the packaging greatly (gen1 rear seat has a plastic center console so it is strictly a 2+2), have a few mechanical upgrades (more electric only range and removed need for premium fuel), classed up the interior (replacing touch buttons with actual clicky ones, as well as supporting carplay and android auto) and a number of other changes as well to modernize it.

One thing I don't know is whether there is a way to assess battery health. They should last a long time but if the battery has been abused, it could be an expensive repair ($3k-5k). I just googled it and there are some crazy numbers like $30k out there. I believe the California warranty for batteries is 10-year, 150k, so you certainly have some protection there.

> But I was able to get a good deal on the iX M60 because there were more vehicles than demand, especially with the controversial grill (which I am OK with).

had to look it up..

smh said:

---

> But I was able to get a good deal on the iX M60 because there were more vehicles than demand, especially with the controversial grill (which I am OK with).

had to look it up..

---

It's not a pretty car, but it drives really well. From a design perspective, I prefer my wife's car.

Even with Tesla and as a former Prius enthusiast, I still drive it like a Prius. But there is something about the center of gravity and the connection to the road that these cars have. I used to be a Toyota / Lexus loyalist until I went all electric with Tesla, but I am now firmly in the BMW camp. Even for a cautious driver like me, it makes driving fun. Probably not fun for the car that it has a lame, slow driver like me, but I like the feel. Don't care about the looks.

Unit2Sucks said:

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heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

heartofthebear said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

I would get a Chevy Volt in a heartbeat. Quite easy to find in your price range and they are pretty rock solid. My in-laws have several and haven't had any mechanical issues.

Brakes last basically forever because you primarily rely on regen for deceleration, the engines are never stressed and tend to be bullet-proof. The only real issues some have is with the transmission, but I don't think it's a serious problem. They do fine for road trips and don't need gas for around town driving. You might even be eligible for some sort of tax break although I haven't looked into it. You can probably find a very nice one for $18k or so. Here's one for $17k, although I think it fails your interior color test.

Of course, this assumes you have access to a 110v outlet to plug in (note that even if you just have a car port it can work fine - doesn't need to be indoors).

Volts may go down as the best sedan Chevy ever built - hyperbole, but they have a cult following and have a pretty unique solution to hybridization. As we've seen with other plug-in hybrids, they are a very good fit for many Americans. They never should have stopped making them.

I would be careful with Hondas. I would estimate that about 75% of all cars with clearcoat failures I see on the street are Hondas. They've also had quite a few off years in the dependability rankings, although I think they may have gotten that under control in the last year or so. I would agree that Toyota's remain rock solid, and Mazda's generally are pretty good. To be honest, most modern cars are reliable. The infotainment systems tend to be problematic but most manufacturers do a good job with engines, transmissions, emissions, etc. and the reliability rankings don't really focus on severity of problems just numbers of reports. Often the brands with the jankiest infotainment spike to the top of the list even though they are just suffering from software bugs, which wouldn't be an issue in the class of vehicle you are considering.

---

Thanks
I'm not getting a plug in. Yes the main purpose is to commute, in which case that makes sense. But I want the option to travel and I have tried traveling with a plug in and it's a nightmare...literally. Even fast charging can ruin your trip.

---

I hear you on this which is why I suggested a Volt. You just need gas for a road trip and they get good highway mileage (~40 mpg). There is no reason to ever bring a charge cable with you on the road, it's just a bonus that lets you run on electricity for your local commuting. The way to think of the Volt is an EV day to day and a fuel-efficient traditional car for road trips.

---

So, to be clear, I don't ever have to plug in the volt? I'm really not into plugging in at all. The time involved in charging is too much of a liability no matter what the context. If I'm low on gas, I go to a gas station which is almost never more than 5 minutes away city and 25 traveling. That is not the case with plug in. Also, filling with gas takes 5-10 minutes. Charging takes 90-900+ minutes.

---

I think calbear93's description of his use case was pretty clear and is the same for the volt (just in a different price class). If you don't have a garage or carport and won't be able to ever charge your battery for around town driving, I wouldn't consider a volt at all.

If you do have a garage, you can charge overnight on a simple 110v outlet. My in-laws have a few and go thousands of miles on a tank of gas because 90% of their driving is around town. They have been Volt fanatics from day one and plan to keep them going for as long as possible.

If you are driving cross country, you don't charge your battery, you just fill up at gas stations like a normal car and go about your life. The gas tank holds 9 gallons so you can get ~400 miles on a full tank of gas plus a charged battery.

---

The volt sounds great. When you retire you should get a retirement job selling volts. I'm not a GM fan but you've peaked my interest.

---

Mary Barra Venmos me every time a used Volt changes hands. But seriously, the Volts are pretty cool - they are pretty much the only example of a series hybrid in wide production. Series means that the internal combustion engine isn't connected to the wheels - it just charges the battery. The electric motors always drives the wheels. The big benefit, in addition to simpler mechanics over parallel hybrids, is that the engine is never really stressed because it's built to operate at the most efficient rpm. This also increases freeway MPG for road trips.

It's a shame no one else is building series hybrids because given all the problems with charging infrastructure, these cars would be a really good option for a lot of 1-car families.

Doesn't sound like it's what heart is looking for but I did want to mention one point. These cars are fine to charge outdoors, even in the rain. All EVs are designed for this and it apparently doesn't present any long term issues. People have been doing it for over a decade now with various EVs.

I wanted to buy a Volt a few years ago - they were eligible for the federal rebate and were selling brand new for low 20's but the packaging didn't work for us. We needed a bit more room for our family and they never came out with a CUV Volt which would have been perfect.

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You might have sold me. I know that a coworker bought one not too long after they first came out and raved about it for months. As long as I don't have to charge it regularly, I'm good. It sounds like you can use gas or electric and the gas efficiency is still really good without the electric so it's not necessary economically either. I'm happy to charge it occasionally or even most of the time. I just don't want to be in a position where I have to charge it in order to drive it. I have been in that situation with a rental and it literally was a nightmare for me and I will probably never rent from Hertz again who essentially forced me to take a plug-in when I had reserved something else.

BTW, an interesting side note/question: Does anybody know why there is such a glut for used cars now? I have never seen so many choices. My theory is that the rental companies are selling their gas cars and getting plug-ins because gas is too expensive and, little known fact, rental companies have to drive their cars as well as the customer. Hertz went bankrupt so they may be leading the charge (no pun intended) here. I know that Hertz has a lot of cars on the market right now.

Anyway, for whatever reason, it's a good time to buy!!!
Just 8 months ago we had to replace our Subaru Outback due to a weather disaster and it was not anywhere near as good as it is now. Although we did find a deal on a gorgeous gold 2014 in immaculate condition, it had over 120 grand on it and still cost over $14 grand. Now you can get cars with less than 50 grand on it for the same price.

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Sounds like the Volt is definitely worth a look for you. My in-laws have had each generation and I greatly prefer driving the 2nd gen (I think 2016-2019). They improved the packaging greatly (gen1 rear seat has a plastic center console so it is strictly a 2+2), have a few mechanical upgrades (more electric only range and removed need for premium fuel), classed up the interior (replacing touch buttons with actual clicky ones, as well as supporting carplay and android auto) and a number of other changes as well to modernize it.

One thing I don't know is whether there is a way to assess battery health. They should last a long time but if the battery has been abused, it could be an expensive repair ($3k-5k). I just googled it and there are some crazy numbers like $30k out there. I believe the California warranty for batteries is 10-year, 150k, so you certainly have some protection there.

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Yes, I looked into the battery issue and it is a problem, even through my battery connection. I would have to run some numbers to see if the extra $3000+ is payed for by gas savings above and beyond other fuel efficient hybrids and sedans. But for now it is not a big priority.

Scott Kilmer, YouTube.

I have owned 2 Camrys, 2 Avalons, 1 Sienna, and 1 Highlander. I never had trouble with any of them and was happy with all. I guess that makes me a Toyota man. You can't go wrong.*

* But I have to admit, I loved my 2 VWs that I bought brand new: 1972 Squareback Sedan and 1981 Scirocco, both manual transmissions.

heartofthebear said:

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Yeah, I don't have a garage. But I do have outside outlets but I'm not sure how safe it is to charge outside in bad weather etc. We also have rodents that chew on wires. I had one car burn up as a result. I live in the country and it rains over 60 inches per year here. We also get bad wind, power blackouts etc. I just don't think I want to mess with a plug in. But I did look up the volt and was surprised to find that there are some that meet my rather stringent parameters.

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A tip on rodents from San Diego where we have a pretty substantial rodent problem.
I have rodent bait traps around my house, but rodents kept chewing wires until an auto tech
suggested spraying the inside hood area with Simple Green annually. Been rodent free under the hood for several years since.

Warning about timing chains.

Starting around 2007 most manufacturers upgraded their gasoline engines with new high output versions, producing more horsepower, efficiency with lower emissions in a smaller engine. Most of these high output engines have timing chains instead of belts and on V-engines they may have three timing chains. Many of these high output engines have failed with les than 100K miles, typically for the same reason; not changing the oil every 5000 miles. Even if using full synthetic advertised as good for up to 10-20,000 miles. Change the oil every 3-5,000 miles or risk a cataclysmic timing chain failure in HO engines produced in Asia, America, or Europe.


Most of the small sedans discussed are unsafe at any speed if they are sharing the road with an EV.
These Small sedan are safe in a collision with a similar 1200-1500 pound vehicle. Unfortunately SUVs weigh two or three times more, mass and physics win.. Also EVs have a couple of thousand pounds of batteries at the bottom of their chassis and small sedans will be gutted as they are not designed to protect against that kind of low impact. Small sedan don't fare well against large tall vehicles either, but that is more expected.

I keep an OBDII reader in each vehicle, it records a lot of information indicating potential future failures before setting warning codes. I would ask for an OBDII scan when buying a used vehicle. Also be leery of leased vehicles, dealers don't report mechanical failures or accidents on leased vehicles.