Minimum wage laws

2,497 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by concordtom
concordtom
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As I've typed here before, I'm generally against minimum wage laws. They distort the magic of the Invisible Hand (supply-demand curve market efficiency).
I thought this oped was worthwhile.




Quote:


Opinion

Liberals in la-la land: High wages, 32-hour workweeks sound great, but there's a steep price

Ingrid Jacques
Updated Wed, April 3, 2024 at 4:41 AM

I recently had a layover at the Minneapolis-Saint Paul airport on my way to visit my parents in Oregon, so I stopped at McDonald's for a quick bite. Rather than being greeted by a human cashier, I was met with a hall of self-serve kiosks, where I placed my order and paid for it.

Expect to see a lot more machines and far fewer human workers in states and cities that are artificially driving up the cost of employees through higher minimum wages.

"The government seems stuck on this way of fixing something that doesn't need to be fixed," Brian Wesbury, chief economist at First Trust Advisors, told me. "It messes up the marketplace, and businesses attempt to find a way around it because these are not market-based wages and today with robotics and computers they can. So it ends up hurting people."


While efficient, automation like those ordering screens at the Minneapolis airport is emblematic of what happens when the government distorts the marketplace with a heavy-handed regulatory approach.

Minneapolis has mandated a $15.57 hourly minimum wage more than twice the federal minimum wage of $7.25 for large employers, but that wage will apply to all businesses starting this summer. While the airport isn't technically part of any city, its employers are no doubt forced to offer comparable wages to attract workers.

High wages are having other effects, too. Minneapolis residents will soon be out of luck if they want to call an Uber or a Lyft. Both companies are leaving town in May after the ultra-liberal city council (several of the 13 are declared socialists) applied the minimum wage to drivers, overriding the mayor's veto. The companies said the mandate makes operations in the city unsustainable.

So in the effort to increase pay for drivers, the city council effectively will strip thousands of jobs and leave many people without transportation.


As Democratic Mayor Jacob Frey said in an interview, "Getting a raise doesn't do a whole lot of good if you lose your job."

Nice work, Minneapolis.

California hikes minimum wage, employers lay people off
Then there's California. In what should have been an April Fools' joke, a law requiring fast-food workers at large chains to earn $20 a hour took effect April 1.

Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, signed the law last year. Obviously, businesses aren't happy because it's bad for their bottom lines.

Biden's new rule may take your job: Biden claims to stand for women, but his new regulation will kill jobs that women want

Newsom admitted as much when he tried to give his buddy Greg Flynn, who runs Panera Bread franchises in California, a loophole from the law. Flynn is a big Newsom donor, and Newsom had demanded a curious exemption to the law for restaurants "making in-house bread."

After the justified uproar that Flynn was getting special favors, he has said he'll abide by the higher wage.

It's no surprise that even before the new minimum wage became reality, restaurants started planning layoffs. For instance, Pizza Hut has said it will cut more than 1,000 delivery jobs. Many more are following suit.

As any economist could have predicted, these businesses are having to downsize their workforce, reduce hours and raise prices. That's what happens when the government meddles in the private market.


It's hard to see how this benefits anyone in the long run. Minimum wage jobs have traditionally existed to give people an entry point into the work world, but government-driven inflated wages will take those opportunities away from inexperienced workers.

And this government intervention ignores that workers have more choices than ever.


"It's such a competitive marketplace and unemployment is so low that if you're disappointed in the job in either the culture or the wage or the working conditions, you can move," Wesbury said.

Less work for same pay? Welcome to Bernie's world.
You can always count on Congress' resident socialist, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, to come up with truly wild (and costly) ideas. He's a constant pusher of "free" college, student debt forgiveness and high minimum wages.

Employers must speak up: Biden's overtime pay proposal is the last thing our economy needs

Sanders also says Americans deserve a 32-hour work week. Employers would be forced to continue paying workers the same pay and benefits as they get for working 40 hours. And he's not just thinking about it he's introduced a bill.

Sounds pretty darn good, I have to say.

Unfortunately, in the real world, companies would have to make adjustments to afford this cushy new employee benefit. Employers would either have to hire more workers or lose out on productivity, and consumers would face higher prices as a result. Other unintended consequences would surely follow.

Bottom line: The private sector works best when the government gets out of the way. It's a lesson liberals never seem to learn.

Ingrid Jacques is a columnist at USA TODAY. Contact her at ijacques@usatoday.com

concordtom
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Yet, this video provides an example of how the conventional textbook wisdom per above is not always so in the real world. Employment went UP when a minimum wage law was enacted in New Jersey.
Why?

dajo9
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Even the video that is more favorable to the minimum wage doesn't seem to understand what our grandparents figured out many decades ago. If you put money into the hands of consumers (within reason), more consumption happens, and businesses get more revenue, and the economy grows. It's not a coincidence that (on average) the most vibrant state economies in America have the highest minimum wages and the highest taxes.

I'll just go ahead and add a paragraph to cut off the upcoming brain-dead counterpoint of why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $100 then. Economics is about finding balances. Right now, in America, just about everywhere you look the balance is tilted against workers / consumers so we can move in more favorable directions towards them.

Of course, AI and automation will have a big say in all this soon - we'll have to figure out a response to it. As it is, as a consumer, I don't use automated kiosks when I'm buying things unless I'm at a place like the airport where I have no choice. I've been in stores waiting in line to be checked out by a person and had the store manager point out the no wait kiosk and I've told them I'd rather wait. But my little gesture isn't going to change the future.
concordtom
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https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/03/03/amazon-to-close-eight-go-convenience-stores-in-cost-cutting-move.html

https://www.producebluebook.com/2023/11/28/study-finds-self-check-has-16x-more-shrink-than-cashier-lanes/

FYI
Automation loses here. Just read the headline in the link if you don't want to click through.

dajo9
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concordtom said:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/03/03/amazon-to-close-eight-go-convenience-stores-in-cost-cutting-move.html

https://www.producebluebook.com/2023/11/28/study-finds-self-check-has-16x-more-shrink-than-cashier-lanes/

FYI
Automation loses here. Just read the headline in the link if you don't want to click through.


Proper surveillance manned with AI will solve that problem. Hooray for the future.
concordtom
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I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.


dajo9
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Jean Valjean except in Act I he's gunned down by robots while trying to steal bread
concordtom
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dajo9 said:

Jean Valjean except in Act I he's gunned down by robots while trying to steal bread

Hahaha!

I wish someone had gunned down Trump in Act 1. Or Act 2 or 3 or 4.

Meh, if it's a proper play, Shakespeare will have something tragic happen to him yet. Debtors jail??? Apparitions followed by suicide? Baron rises up to avenge his mother's mistreatment?

Something.

I mean, the whole suicide pill and then burning of the body outside the bunker was wholly unsatisfactory !! No Tony Award for that!
calbear93
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concordtom said:

I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.



This is your serious view of AI and automation?

You act like you are interested in AI, but have you even experimented with the free ChatGPT out there.

You are not a serious or truly curious person.
concordtom
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calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.



This is your serious view of AI and automation?

You act like you are interested in AI, but have you even experimented with the free ChatGPT out there.

You are not a serious or truly curious person.

Yes, I mess with ChatGPT 3.5 ever since David Pogue introduced it … looks like Jan 2023.



You have no sense of humor. Dajo understood the joke.
calbear93
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concordtom said:

calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.



This is your serious view of AI and automation?

You act like you are interested in AI, but have you even experimented with the free ChatGPT out there.

You are not a serious or truly curious person.

Yes, I mess with ChatGPT 3.5 ever since David Pogue introduced it … looks like Jan 2023.



You have no sense of humor. Dajo understood the joke.
No **** it was a joke. It was a stupid joke because it has no grounding in reality of AI but maybe a 2nd grader's poor understanding of AI. This is your joke after you asked for a serious conversation of AI? Maybe you are not the one qualified to ask Diablo for a serious discussion on AI?

For anyone interested, GPT 5.0 should come out this year that will exponentially reduce hallucinations and laziness. Most companies I know are including their own, self-contained GPT 4.0 tools, and individuals will become more and more comfortable with daily use of AI for tasks, including providing first presentation, creating video or graphics from text, providing coaching on video conference, analyzing tone in presentation, etc.
dajo9
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I liked your joke, Tom. But I find AI boring (as a topic). I've never done anything with it. I generally find technology to be boring. I am always a late adopter. I have always been fine with that. It has never held me back (I bought my first smart phone in 2013 when I started a new job and just because I didn't want not having a smart phone to negatively impact people's early impressions of me). I eagerly anticipate AI coming for my job so I can have an excuse for my wife to semi-retire into landlording.
bearister
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dajo9 said:

I liked your joke, Tom. But I find AI boring (as a topic). I've never done anything with it. I generally find technology to be boring. I am always a late adopter. I have always been fine with that. It has never held me back. I eagerly anticipate AI coming for my job so I can have an excuse for my wife to semi-retire into landlording.

Will you be bored when Dr. Evil sends a battalion of these guys to your city for home invasion mass arrests with optional pre detention probing?


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dajo9
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bearister said:

dajo9 said:

I liked your joke, Tom. But I find AI boring (as a topic). I've never done anything with it. I generally find technology to be boring. I am always a late adopter. I have always been fine with that. It has never held me back. I eagerly anticipate AI coming for my job so I can have an excuse for my wife to semi-retire into landlording.

Will you be bored when Dr. Evil sends a battalion of these guys to your city for home invasion mass arrests with optional pre detention probing?



I'm sure I'll be able to reason with them
okaydo
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This new fast food minimum wage law is ridiculous.

My traditional McDonald's meal of 3 Quarter Pounders with Cheese, 2 McDoubles, 1 Large Fries and 1 Large Coke now costs $21.32.







bearister
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….but a much larger cost to your physical well being.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

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concordtom
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calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.



This is your serious view of AI and automation?

You act like you are interested in AI, but have you even experimented with the free ChatGPT out there.

You are not a serious or truly curious person.

Yes, I mess with ChatGPT 3.5 ever since David Pogue introduced it … looks like Jan 2023.



You have no sense of humor. Dajo understood the joke.
No **** it was a joke. It was a stupid joke because it has no grounding in reality of AI but maybe a 2nd grader's poor understanding of AI. This is your joke after you asked for a serious conversation of AI? Maybe you are not the one qualified to ask Diablo for a serious discussion on AI?

For anyone interested, GPT 5.0 should come out this year that will exponentially reduce hallucinations and laziness. Most companies I know are including their own, self-contained GPT 4.0 tools, and individuals will become more and more comfortable with daily use of AI for tasks, including providing first presentation, creating video or graphics from text, providing coaching on video conference, analyzing tone in presentation, etc.

I believe my question was about taxation policy. I injected the ramifications of AI on wealth distribution and thus asked for any possible tax policy responses.

Bearister started an AI thread elsewhere.
concordtom
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calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.



This is your serious view of AI and automation?

You act like you are interested in AI, but have you even experimented with the free ChatGPT out there.

You are not a serious or truly curious person.

Yes, I mess with ChatGPT 3.5 ever since David Pogue introduced it … looks like Jan 2023.



You have no sense of humor. Dajo understood the joke.
No **** it was a joke. It was a stupid joke because it has no grounding in reality of AI but maybe a 2nd grader's poor understanding of AI. This is your joke after you asked for a serious conversation of AI? Maybe you are not the one qualified to ask Diablo for a serious discussion on AI?

For anyone interested, GPT 5.0 should come out this year that will exponentially reduce hallucinations and laziness. Most companies I know are including their own, self-contained GPT 4.0 tools, and individuals will become more and more comfortable with daily use of AI for tasks, including providing first presentation, creating video or graphics from text, providing coaching on video conference, analyzing tone in presentation, etc.


What do you mean by "hallucinations and laziness"?
calbear93
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concordtom said:

calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.



This is your serious view of AI and automation?

You act like you are interested in AI, but have you even experimented with the free ChatGPT out there.

You are not a serious or truly curious person.

Yes, I mess with ChatGPT 3.5 ever since David Pogue introduced it … looks like Jan 2023.



You have no sense of humor. Dajo understood the joke.
No **** it was a joke. It was a stupid joke because it has no grounding in reality of AI but maybe a 2nd grader's poor understanding of AI. This is your joke after you asked for a serious conversation of AI? Maybe you are not the one qualified to ask Diablo for a serious discussion on AI?

For anyone interested, GPT 5.0 should come out this year that will exponentially reduce hallucinations and laziness. Most companies I know are including their own, self-contained GPT 4.0 tools, and individuals will become more and more comfortable with daily use of AI for tasks, including providing first presentation, creating video or graphics from text, providing coaching on video conference, analyzing tone in presentation, etc.


What do you mean by "hallucinations and laziness"?
One of the current issues with generative AI at this stage is hallucinations - seeing things that are not there and presenting as a fact something that is made up by AI because it feels pressured to deliver the answer it thinks you want.

Laziness is another term in AI where generative AI is not completing the requested task or providing an oversimplified response.

GPT 5.0 is supposed to fix many of these issues for more reliable deliverables by AI.
concordtom
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calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

calbear93 said:

concordtom said:

I was looking for the type of future where a bunch of robots jump out and gun down the would be shoplifter with laser beams.



This is your serious view of AI and automation?

You act like you are interested in AI, but have you even experimented with the free ChatGPT out there.

You are not a serious or truly curious person.

Yes, I mess with ChatGPT 3.5 ever since David Pogue introduced it … looks like Jan 2023.



You have no sense of humor. Dajo understood the joke.
No **** it was a joke. It was a stupid joke because it has no grounding in reality of AI but maybe a 2nd grader's poor understanding of AI. This is your joke after you asked for a serious conversation of AI? Maybe you are not the one qualified to ask Diablo for a serious discussion on AI?

For anyone interested, GPT 5.0 should come out this year that will exponentially reduce hallucinations and laziness. Most companies I know are including their own, self-contained GPT 4.0 tools, and individuals will become more and more comfortable with daily use of AI for tasks, including providing first presentation, creating video or graphics from text, providing coaching on video conference, analyzing tone in presentation, etc.


What do you mean by "hallucinations and laziness"?
One of the current issues with generative AI at this stage is hallucinations - seeing things that are not there and presenting as a fact something that is made up by AI because it feels pressured to deliver the answer it thinks you want.

Laziness is another term in AI where generative AI is not completing the requested task or providing an oversimplified response.

GPT 5.0 is supposed to fix many of these issues for more reliable deliverables by AI.

Okay. I've definitely experienced "hallucinations"!
It tells
Me things I know are false and then I correct it and it says "oh, sorry, you are right. Such and such is (repeats what I told it)".

I then ask why it gave me bad info.
I've come to know I definitely cannot rely on 3.5.

One thing I do t like about 3.5 is that it can tell me something and when I ask for its sources it won't provide them. Therefore I can never follow up for confirmation. It leads to never being able to get to the true bottom of things with 3.5.
But it's great for general beginning on a topic.

I've enjoyed google inserting their own version of generative responses because it includes current happenings, whereas 3.5 is always a few years stale.
bearister
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dajo9 said:

bearister said:

dajo9 said:

I liked your joke, Tom. But I find AI boring (as a topic). I've never done anything with it. I generally find technology to be boring. I am always a late adopter. I have always been fine with that. It has never held me back. I eagerly anticipate AI coming for my job so I can have an excuse for my wife to semi-retire into landlording.

Will you be bored when Dr. Evil sends a battalion of these guys to your city for home invasion mass arrests with optional pre detention probing?



I'm sure I'll be able to reason with them

I hope we have a generation of new Captain James T. Kirks. Captain Kirk never met AI he couldn't psych out. He would have smoke coming out of those I Robot guys within minutes.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
concordtom
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By the time I saw this episode on re-run I wanted to yell "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!"

Stupid artistic ripoff artists!



the robot in the 1966 Lost in Space episode "War of the Robots" is based on Robby the Robot from the 1956 movie Forbidden Planet. Robert Kino****a, who also designed Robby the Robot, designed the "Lost in Space" robot. Both robots appear together in episodes 20 and 60.


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