wifeisafurd said:You know, this finally seems to be on point. The reservoir in Stone Canyon, which supports Bel Air and its surrounds, serves an area which already has good water pressure, unlike the Palisades. Stone Canyon has 3 plus Billion gallons of water, which last time I looked was more water than had been used to fight the Palisades fire so far. The big difference is Stone Canyon was built many decades ago before public spending was rerouted to different priorities. But had the fire been on the other side of the 405, the result would have been far less damage would have been sustained.bearister said:
I have zero expertise in the matter and do not purport to know whose opinion is correct. With that said, I found this opinion by a Furd expert:
" David Freyberg, PhD, a hydrologist and water resources specialist at Stanford University, told CBS News in an email that while a full Santa Ynez would have had benefits, it's not clear how much impact it would have had.
"The reservoirs above Pacific Palisades were not designed to support fire-fighting at the scale of [this] fire," he wrote. "Water supply reservoirs are typically designed to cope with house fires, not wildfires."
He added that the situation has made it clear that larger-scale solutions are necessary.
"It is clear that communities vulnerable to wildfire are going to need to think carefully, i.e., rethink, about design criteria for these systems," Freyberg said. "Not just reservoirs, but pipe sizes [and] pressure management."
….and Newsom, not quantifying anything, said this:
"In his letter to DWP, Newsom wrote, "While water supplies from local fire hydrants are not designed to extinguish wildfires over large areas, losing supplies from fire hydrants likely impaired the effort to protect some homes and evacuation corridors."
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/la-fires-santa-ynez-reservoir-pacific-palisades-california/
Unfortunately, journalists have focused on the lack of the reservoir with a 117 million gallon capacity which the LA County fire chief said would have only provided maybe a hour more of water pressure (which admttedly could have saved some homes). The LA Times now is rife with articles with LA officials being told that the LA City west of the 405 was grossly insufficient, and something closer to the Stone Canyon Reservoir was needed.
Officials were warned of failing water system before ...Los Angeles Timeshttps://www.latimes.com california story malibu-w...
While the academic quoted is correct the reservoirs in place were designed to fight small fires, and he is incompetently wrong (or being quoted out of context) about the current water system in SoCal. That system generally is designed to accommodate water suppression for the major wild fires that Los Angles and Orange Counties have encountered over many decades. I have both lived through those fires and personally observed fire suppressant efforts on my family homes, and worked for either as real estate counsel or CFO of the largest water purveyors down here. There exists many reservoirs and underground storage facilities the size of Stone Canyon on the wholesale and retail level. Either the professor was taken out of context, or he simply doesn't understand the infrastructure that exists in other populated areas of the City and LA County outside the Palisades.
The agonizing other problem is that journalists are focused on the tiny 117 million gallon facility because they can show pictures of the empty facility and because LA DWP official blatantly lied abut the facility being closed temporarily for maintenance. The problem was the entire system in the Palisades had been ignored for many decades as population grew exponentially.
Newsom seems to have this right if you talk with the incidence fire chiefs. When the priority shifted from fighting the fire to saving lives (which is the protocol), the evacuation corridors failed and the ground fire resources had to focus on removing people rather than the fire, which allowed the fire to become out of control. This meant, hours later, when the ground fire resources finally shifted to protecting structure, the fire had to be fought too many fronts without the help of air resources, due to insufficient water pressure from the local water system. This meant there was no water being retrieved from water mains (plenty of water, but no pressure to get the water through the system to the hydrant), the ground resources were unable to fight the advancing fire.
It already was out of control before fire suppression efforts started. Per the LA County Chief, in LA County where you have smaller jurisdictions that have less transient people, like renters (the Highlands where the fire started has a lot of apartments), you can provide for adequate evacuation planning. For example, in my city, you are contacted by your cell and by email when your area is supposed to leave so the roads are not gridlocked. In LA, most people evacuated as soon as possible clogging the roads, and then far more people than usual insisted upon staying meaning the LAPD had to get involved further delaying fighting the fire. The other thing is he wifi went down. Now the County cities have made a big effort to hand out for free AM radios for use when this happens. But most evacuees either didn't know about the warning system or didn't get notified by the warning system since the wifi went down. The evacuation became an utter sheet show, as evacuees left their cars during the gridlock that prevented crews from going after the fire and getting assets in place. Many cars had to be moved b y bulldozer when people abandoned their cars. But the eviction failure is what caused the delay. The ground assets might have been able to control the fire with the water in the reservoir if fire had not spread so far, but hours later, with huge winds and dry brush, the fire fighters ran out of water quickly, and the LA County Chief does not believe the water from the reservoir would have made any meaningful difference.Cal88 said:wifeisafurd said:You know, this finally seems to be on point. The reservoir in Stone Canyon, which supports Bel Air and its surrounds, serves an area which already has good water pressure, unlike the Palisades. Stone Canyon has 3 plus Billion gallons of water, which last time I looked was more water than had been used to fight the Palisades fire so far. The big difference is Stone Canyon was built many decades ago before public spending was rerouted to different priorities. But had the fire been on the other side of the 405, the result would have been far less damage would have been sustained.bearister said:
I have zero expertise in the matter and do not purport to know whose opinion is correct. With that said, I found this opinion by a Furd expert:
" David Freyberg, PhD, a hydrologist and water resources specialist at Stanford University, told CBS News in an email that while a full Santa Ynez would have had benefits, it's not clear how much impact it would have had.
"The reservoirs above Pacific Palisades were not designed to support fire-fighting at the scale of [this] fire," he wrote. "Water supply reservoirs are typically designed to cope with house fires, not wildfires."
He added that the situation has made it clear that larger-scale solutions are necessary.
"It is clear that communities vulnerable to wildfire are going to need to think carefully, i.e., rethink, about design criteria for these systems," Freyberg said. "Not just reservoirs, but pipe sizes [and] pressure management."
….and Newsom, not quantifying anything, said this:
"In his letter to DWP, Newsom wrote, "While water supplies from local fire hydrants are not designed to extinguish wildfires over large areas, losing supplies from fire hydrants likely impaired the effort to protect some homes and evacuation corridors."
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/la-fires-santa-ynez-reservoir-pacific-palisades-california/
Unfortunately, journalists have focused on the lack of the reservoir with a 117 million gallon capacity which the LA County fire chief said would have only provided maybe a hour more of water pressure (which admttedly could have saved some homes). The LA Times now is rife with articles with LA officials being told that the LA City west of the 405 was grossly insufficient, and something closer to the Stone Canyon Reservoir was needed.
Officials were warned of failing water system before ...Los Angeles Timeshttps://www.latimes.com california story malibu-w...
While the academic quoted is correct the reservoirs in place were designed to fight small fires, and he is incompetently wrong (or being quoted out of context) about the current water system in SoCal. That system generally is designed to accommodate water suppression for the major wild fires that Los Angles and Orange Counties have encountered over many decades. I have both lived through those fires and personally observed fire suppressant efforts on my family homes, and worked for either as real estate counsel or CFO of the largest water purveyors down here. There exists many reservoirs and underground storage facilities the size of Stone Canyon on the wholesale and retail level. Either the professor was taken out of context, or he simply doesn't understand the infrastructure that exists in other populated areas of the City and LA County outside the Palisades.
The agonizing other problem is that journalists are focused on the tiny 117 million gallon facility because they can show pictures of the empty facility and because LA DWP official blatantly lied abut the facility being closed temporarily for maintenance. The problem was the entire system in the Palisades had been ignored for many decades as population grew exponentially.
Newsom seems to have this right if you talk with the incidence fire chiefs. When the priority shifted from fighting the fire to saving lives (which is the protocol), the evacuation corridors failed and the ground fire resources had to focus on removing people rather than the fire, which allowed the fire to become out of control. This meant, hours later, when the ground fire resources finally shifted to protecting structure, the fire had to be fought too many fronts without the help of air resources, due to insufficient water pressure from the local water system. This meant there was no water being retrieved from water mains (plenty of water, but no pressure to get the water through the system to the hydrant), the ground resources were unable to fight the advancing fire.
A full reservoir with 117 million gallons could have prevented the Palisades fires from growing out of control in the first place.
Why did it take LAFD 55 minutes to get to the blaze? I heard some thoughts on this from the LA County Chief. It does take some time since the idea is to assemble a large enough force to attack the fire so you don't have to get into the next phase which if life protection rather than fighting the fire. The County Chief indicated that the City crew was delayed due to topography and that they were not on the LA County early warning system. The County system uses AI Towers that can make measurements that indicate a fire is happening well before anyone knows a fire exists. Also, the area has a large number of palm and eucalyptus trees that exploded and blocked the road.movielover said:
Good info, but still incomplete.
Why did it take LAFD 55 minutes to get to the blaze?
Why did LAFD not follow their procedures of placing fire rigs in key areas during extreme weather events?
Why did Newsom end a 200-man volunteer Fire crew that deploys immediately to wilderness fires? (It then took 10 days to train a replacement crew.)
Why doesn't California own multiple Bombardier supercscooper planes?
With the Mayor gone and Deputy Mayor under FBI investigation, who was the local commander?
Why has Newsom blatantly lied about fire suppression activities?
Convo between President Trump & LA Mayor Bass getting tense. Trump says homeowners should be able to clear their own debris, Bass says they can. But that’s not true, most homeowners can’t even get into their burned properties, and LA County prohibited personal cleanup on 1/15. pic.twitter.com/clJ9BZ0EtF
— Bill Melugin (@BillMelugin_) January 25, 2025
movielover said:
More Looney Tunes.
EXCLUSIVE: LAFD Assistant Chief Kristina Kepner was accused of brutally assaulting ex-girlfriend... who claims boss Crowley 'covered it up' and promoted her
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14287897/lafd-chief-kristina-kepner-assault-boss-crowley-cover-promotion.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton
Notice it's the UK breaking this story.
New campaign video just dropped... pic.twitter.com/v8J4otADrB
— il Donaldo Trumpo (@PapiTrumpo) January 8, 2025
As of noon today, residents have full access to Pacific Palisades in daylight hours (thanks, @POTUS @realDonaldTrump!). You have to arrive at a remote parking lot (#SantaMonica 3) and take a police-escorted convoy in. But you can bring contractors etc. #PalisadesFire pic.twitter.com/wwNJDhDuaa
— Joel Pollak (@joelpollak) January 27, 2025
The United States Military just entered the Great State of California and, under Emergency Powers, TURNED ON THE WATER flowing abundantly from the Pacific Northwest, and beyond. The days of putting a Fake Environmental argument, over the PEOPLE, are OVER. Enjoy the water,…
— Donald J. Trump Posts From His Truth Social (@TrumpDailyPosts) January 28, 2025
AunBear89 said:
Maybe he's a useful idiot who signs whatever is put in front of him, and he knows nothing about any of it.
movielover said:
Confusing and inaccurate - but I do love the goal.
We don't get our water from the Pacific Northwest or Canada, but maybe he incorrectly includes NorCal as part of the PNW.
The military did not enter California. The federal government restarted federal water pumps after they were offline for maintenance for three days. State water supplies in Southern California remain plentiful. pic.twitter.com/f81HJSehDq
— CA - DWR (@CA_DWR) January 28, 2025
DiabloWags said:movielover said:
Confusing and inaccurate - but I do love the goal.
We don't get our water from the Pacific Northwest or Canada, but maybe he incorrectly includes NorCal as part of the PNW.
How could anyone claim that NorCal is part of the PNW?
Is he really that f-ing dumb???
FWIW, the Military did NOT TURN ON THE WATER as part of emergency powers.
How stupid does he think the public is?The military did not enter California. The federal government restarted federal water pumps after they were offline for maintenance for three days. State water supplies in Southern California remain plentiful. pic.twitter.com/f81HJSehDq
— CA - DWR (@CA_DWR) January 28, 2025
DiabloWags said:movielover said:
Confusing and inaccurate - but I do love the goal.
We don't get our water from the Pacific Northwest or Canada, but maybe he incorrectly includes NorCal as part of the PNW.
How could anyone claim that NorCal is part of the PNW?
Is he really that f-ing dumb???
FWIW, the Military did NOT TURN ON THE WATER as part of emergency powers.
How stupid does he think the public is?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Before we can send water from Canada to SoCal, we're going to have to figure out how to get the water over a few large mountain ranges. That won't be cheap and it won't happen during Trump's administration. Then there's the whole what's in it for Canada problem to address.
DiabloWags said:Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Before we can send water from Canada to SoCal, we're going to have to figure out how to get the water over a few large mountain ranges. That won't be cheap and it won't happen during Trump's administration. Then there's the whole what's in it for Canada problem to address.
Whaddya mean?
Trump said it's like a BIG FAUCET.
You just turn it on.
Big C said:DiabloWags said:Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Before we can send water from Canada to SoCal, we're going to have to figure out how to get the water over a few large mountain ranges. That won't be cheap and it won't happen during Trump's administration. Then there's the whole what's in it for Canada problem to address.
Whaddya mean?
Trump said it's like a BIG FAUCET.
You just turn it on.
To understand that water from the north naturally flows downhill to the south, it may be necessary to put your map on the wall (right-side-up!). If you have the map flat on a table, it is not so obvious to see. This is one of the reasons that maps are usually hung on walls, especially in classrooms, so that students can understand how it works.
Or look at a globe. This also explains why there is a lot more ocean in the southern hemisphere. Eventually, it will all be there and the northern hemisphere will be almost completely dry (fortunately not in my lifetime).
The water is flowing, big time, in Northern California. The long empty reservoirs will soon be full. Thank you President Trump!!!
— Donald J. Trump Posts From His Truth Social (@TrumpDailyPosts) January 29, 2025
Donald Trump Truth Social Post 09:40 PM EST 01/28/25
