Trump admin to pay Ashli Babbitt $5M

839 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by Big C
concordtom
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Babbitt family sue for $20M, they'll get $5M.
Officer who shot her is cleared of wrongdoing, acted lawfully.

So why settle for 1 penny?



https://www.yahoo.com/news/ashli-babbitts-family-receive-5-182535597.html

The area where she was shot was a place I could not go. Maybe people don't realize - the rioters were at the inner sanctum.

It'll be interesting if Trump moves to pay those who were jailed, as he has suggested he may do.
going4roses
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White reparations
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
chazzed
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Disgraceful but not surprising.
Cal88
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concordtom said:

Babbitt family sue for $20M, they'll get $5M.
Officer who shot her is cleared of wrongdoing, acted lawfully.

So why settle for 1 penny?



https://www.yahoo.com/news/ashli-babbitts-family-receive-5-182535597.html

The area where she was shot was a place I could not go. Maybe people don't realize - the rioters were at the inner sanctum.

It'll be interesting if Trump moves to pay those who were jailed, as he has suggested he may do.

If it's legal to shoot an unarmed protestor, the law should be changed.
oski003
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going4roses said:

White reparations


In that case, it seems like black people have also gotten their reparations. Glad we are done with this discussion.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Cal88 said:

concordtom said:

Babbitt family sue for $20M, they'll get $5M.
Officer who shot her is cleared of wrongdoing, acted lawfully.

So why settle for 1 penny?



https://www.yahoo.com/news/ashli-babbitts-family-receive-5-182535597.html

The area where she was shot was a place I could not go. Maybe people don't realize - the rioters were at the inner sanctum.

It'll be interesting if Trump moves to pay those who were jailed, as he has suggested he may do.

If it's legal to shoot an unarmed protestor, the law should be changed.
You've obviously forgotten most of the details of the situation at that moment. She was unarmed but most of the mob around her were armed with assorted sticks, clubs and probably a few guns. They were breaking into an area with lawmakers that would undoubtedly been attacked if they got through the doors. Finally, she was warned several times by the cop. You can't claim she was an innocent victim.

This is obviously the Trump administration's way of rewarding the Babbitt family for having Ashli be a martyr for his Presidential campaign.
DiabloWags
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Cal88 said:



If it's legal to shoot an unarmed protestor, the law should be changed.

You might want to re-visit the details of this "incident" at the Capitol and brush up on your knowledge base.
You sound terribly out of touch with reality.
wifeisafurd
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there is a distinction between civil and criminal legal requirements.
bearister
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It was a good shoot under the law governing police use of deadly force and Trump is ordering the payment because she was a fellow insurrectionist and it tickles his base.

Based on this payout, the taxpayers saved a lot of money when the police didn't close the deal on several hundred good shoots they were entitled to carry out on 1/6.

*I fully expect Trump to pardon Diddy and Elizabeth Holmes. He is an outlaw pardoning fellow outlaws.
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chazzed
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This guy sums up the madness of this situation well.

concordtom
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Cal88 said:

concordtom said:

Babbitt family sue for $20M, they'll get $5M.
Officer who shot her is cleared of wrongdoing, acted lawfully.

So why settle for 1 penny?



https://www.yahoo.com/news/ashli-babbitts-family-receive-5-182535597.html

The area where she was shot was a place I could not go. Maybe people don't realize - the rioters were at the inner sanctum.

It'll be interesting if Trump moves to pay those who were jailed, as he has suggested he may do.

If it's legal to shoot an unarmed protestor, the law should be changed.


That's laughable.
You and I both know how farcical it is to suggest that.

The mob had smashed windows, beat cops, and was making threatening chants.
They had entered illegally and had pressed right to the other side of ejected officials whom they chanted to kill.

Unarmed?
Un-Armed?

Their fists were their arms!



The mob was overwhelming, outnumbering cops with physical violence 10 to 1.
You wanted the police to protect Congress members with fisticuffs???

They did an excellent job!
Only 1 rioter was killed, and that was a last stand, final resort - which actually ended the first into the chamber at that location, thankfully.

BearGoggles
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bearister said:

It was a good shoot under the law governing police use of deadly force and Trump is ordering the payment because she was a fellow insurrectionist and it tickles his base.

Based on this payout, the taxpayers saved a lot of money when the police didn't close the deal on several hundred good shoots they were entitled to carry out on 1/6.

*I fully expect Trump to pardon Diddy and Elizabeth Holmes. He is an outlaw pardoning fellow outlaws.
What is the law of "good shootings"? Please detail that law on police use of force and explain how it applies here.

You do, inadvertently, raise an interesting point. You acknowledge there were many people behaving in an illegal manner similar to Babbitt that day. If this was a good shoot, why was Babbit the only one shot by police? Why did all other police officers elect not to shoot?
Anarchistbear
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If your intent is peaceful yet you breach and trespass on a cornerstone of state power- the House- you should expect to get shot

If your intent is insurrection then you should be armed and shoot the police in your way.
bearister
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BearGoggles said:


What is the law of "good shootings"? Please detail that law on police use of force and explain how it applies here.

You do, inadvertently, raise an interesting point. You acknowledge there were many people behaving in an illegal manner similar to Babbitt that day. If this was a good shoot, why was Babbit the only one shot by police? Why did all other police officers elect not to shoot?


"The United States Capitol Police (USCP) policy on the use of deadly force, as stated in their internal investigations, allows officers to use deadly force only when they reasonably believe it's necessary in defense of human life, including their own, or to protect anyone in immediate danger of serious physical injury.This policy aligns with the general legal principle that deadly force is justified when necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm.

Key aspects of the USCP's deadly force policy include:

Defense of Human Life:

Officers can use deadly force when they reasonably believe it's necessary to protect themselves or others from imminent death or serious bodily harm.

Reasonable Belief:

The use of deadly force is based on the officer's reasonable belief, not necessarily on objective certainty, about the threat.

Objectively Reasonable Force:

The USCP policy emphasizes using only the level of force that is objectively reasonable to accomplish their duties and protect lives."
AI Overview

District of Columbia | Department of Justice Closes Investigation into the Death of Ashli Babbitt | United States Department of Justice

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/department-justice-closes-investigation-death-ashli-babbitt

"USCP officers used furniture to barricade a set of glass doors separating the hallway and Speaker's Lobby to try and stop the mob from entering the Speaker's Lobby and the Chamber, and three officers positioned themselves between the doors and the mob. Members of the mob attempted to break through the doors by striking them and breaking the glass with their hands, flagpoles, helmets, and other objects.

Eventually, the three USCP officers positioned outside the doors were forced to evacuate. As members of the mob continued to strike the glass doors, Ms. Babbitt attempted to climb through one of the doors where glass was broken out. An officer inside the Speaker's Lobby fired one round from his service pistol, striking Ms. Babbitt in the left shoulder, causing her to fall back from the doorway and onto the floor. …..

Specifically, the investigation revealed no evidence to establish that, at the time the officer fired a single shot at Ms. Babbitt, the officer did not reasonably believe that it was necessary to do so in self-defense or in defense of the Members of Congress and others evacuating the House Chamber."


"Why did all other police officers elect not to shoot?"

"The only reason why I didn't do it was because the mentality was this is a four-alarm blaze," Officer James Blassingame told "PBS News Hour" in an interview that aired Wednesday, "and if I pull my gun out and start shooting, I'm throwing kerosene on it. Maybe there's a chance I survive if I don't pull my weapon, but if I do, I'm probably not going to make it out of here alive, you know. You don't have enough bullets."
https://www.businessinsider.com/capitol-police-officer-james-blassingame-insurrection-gun-2021-6


The police could have legally shot every insurrectionist participating in this.

"During the January 6th Capitol riot, 138 law enforcement officers were injured, including 73 from the U.S. Capitol Police and 65 from the Metropolitan Police Department. Some officers suffered serious injuries, including traumatic brain injuries, cracked ribs, shattered spinal discs, lost fingers, and being stabbed.*
AI Overview

*An officer does not have to subject himself to these serious injuries before using deadly force. He just has to "reasonably believe" it's necessary to use deadly force to protect himself or others from injuries like those listed above. Based on how it played out on J6, it was certainly a "reasonable belief" that those breaching the chamber intended to inflict the same harm they had inflicted on officers on their way into the building.

Lt. Michael Byrd fatally shot Babbitt:
"Byrd's connection to what was going on outside and inside the building was his police radio. For several minutes, it crackled with a cascade of alarming messages.
There were shouts of officers down. Screams from his colleagues under attack by rioters with chemical agents. A report that an officer's fingertips were blown off."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1277736
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Cal88
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I guess this is my European side speaking here, I've been on this side of the Pond since the 1980s, but am still shocked at the normalization of this level of violence, which is seemingly shared across the political spectrum as this case shows.

No warning shots, freaking out over unarmed protestors streaming in, assuming that their lives or those of Congressmen really were in danger - all common sense goes out the door the moment you dislike the victims' politics.


Quote:

The police could have legally shot every insurrectionist participating in this.
OK then, if those are your standards, don't go badmouthing the Chinese feds for mowing down students at Tienanmen square, they had the same argumentation.
DiabloWags
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BearGoggles said:

bearister said:

It was a good shoot under the law governing police use of deadly force and Trump is ordering the payment because she was a fellow insurrectionist and it tickles his base.

Based on this payout, the taxpayers saved a lot of money when the police didn't close the deal on several hundred good shoots they were entitled to carry out on 1/6.

*I fully expect Trump to pardon Diddy and Elizabeth Holmes. He is an outlaw pardoning fellow outlaws.
What is the law of "good shootings"? Please detail that law on police use of force and explain how it applies here.

You do, inadvertently, raise an interesting point. You acknowledge there were many people behaving in an illegal manner similar to Babbitt that day. If this was a good shoot, why was Babbit the only one shot by police? Why did all other police officers elect not to shoot?

For some strange reason, you totally ignore the fact that the Capitol Building is a "restricted area".

Yet, here you go again "conflating" a mob protest outside of that "restricted" area with Ashli Babbit being INSIDE.

You're ability to conflate is second to none on these boards.
You have a distinct history of it.




bearister
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You seem to be discounting or ignoring the number of serious physical injuries inflicted by that mob Trump lathered up.

"Police departments often prohibit firing warning shots during deadly force incidents due to safety concerns and the belief that they are impractical. Warning shots can easily ricochet off hard surfaces, striking unintended targets and causing unintended injuries or even death."
AI Overview

At least in this country, we were told at the time, that the protestors at Tiananmen Square were peaceful.

There are a lot of people that think like you do, in fact so much so, that every time a whacko charges a cop with a baseball bat, a pike, a hammer, etc. and the cop puts them to ground, the counties in the Bay Area just write the heirs a check for $2 to $3 million figuring a jury will award more. You wouldn't want to be one of those cops.
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DiabloWags
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Cal88 said:

I guess this is my European side speaking here, I've been on this side of the Pond since the 1980s, but am still shocked at the normalization of this level of violence, which is seemingly shared across the political spectrum as this case shows.

No warning shots, freaking out over unarmed protestors streaming in, assuming that their lives or those of Congressmen really were in danger - all common sense goes out the door the moment you dislike the victims' politics.




Again, I find your perspective terribly bizarre and you still don't seem to even have the remotest command of the FACTS.
For some strange reason, you appear to simply "gloss" over a lot of critical points.

The Capitol holds the Top 600 plus leaders and lawmakers of our country as well as classified material and critical documents. It is in fact, a "restricted area".

Politically speaking, the Capitol and what it contains is just as much a "high value priority resource" as our secret weapon systems are. If we are not willing to defend it or our laws would punish the police officers for trying to defend it, then we might was well just disarm our entire police force.

Another important observation in the Capitol incident is that some of the protestors had flex-cuffs in their possession. One could reasonably infer that the same thoughts existed here as in the foiled plot against the Michigan state government where the plan was to kidnap several government officials. Do you not believe that Pelosi, Clyburn, and even VP Pence weren't targets?

Was this a plot to kidnap government officials?

I think that one can reasonably infer that it was with chants of "Hang Pence!" being heard around the Capitol.
If that was the intent, that certainly ups the ante with regard to using deadly force INSIDE the Capitol.

As for Babbit, she was a 14-year USAF Veteran.
She had multiple overseas deployments and I believe she may have been in USAF Security Forces.
If this is correct, she should have had a much more appreciative perspective of use of force situations.

She wasn't just the typical citizen.








Big C
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DiabloWags said:

BearGoggles said:

bearister said:

It was a good shoot under the law governing police use of deadly force and Trump is ordering the payment because she was a fellow insurrectionist and it tickles his base.

Based on this payout, the taxpayers saved a lot of money when the police didn't close the deal on several hundred good shoots they were entitled to carry out on 1/6.

*I fully expect Trump to pardon Diddy and Elizabeth Holmes. He is an outlaw pardoning fellow outlaws.
What is the law of "good shootings"? Please detail that law on police use of force and explain how it applies here.

You do, inadvertently, raise an interesting point. You acknowledge there were many people behaving in an illegal manner similar to Babbitt that day. If this was a good shoot, why was Babbit the only one shot by police? Why did all other police officers elect not to shoot?

For some strange reason, you totally ignore the fact that the Capitol Building is a "restricted area".

Yet, here you go again "conflating" a mob protest outside of that "restricted" area with Ashli Babbit being INSIDE.





At the point Ms. Babbit was shot, the "peaceful protesters" had reached the inner sanctum, right near where the last of the members of Congress were scurrying away. It was time to make a stand.

This protecting of the Capitol didn't seem political in the least. God forbid the same mob, doing the same things, had been Black. Can you imagine how that would have turned out?
bearister
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A real lesson would have been learned had the mob hung Pence on J6. Perhaps, it would have reduced the torrential downpour of bull$h@it we have had to listen to regarding how benign that felonious mob was.
Trump, for sure, would have pardoned Pence's neck extenders, and probably awarded them the Medal of Freedom.
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dajo9
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They are all fascist traitors. The attackers. Their defenders on this board. Their pardoner.
Big C
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bearister said:

A real lesson would have been learned had the mob hung Pence on J6. Perhaps, it would have reduced the torrential downpour of bull$h@it we have had to listen to regarding how benign that felonious mob was.
Trump, for sure, would have pardoned Pence's neck extenders, and probably awarded them the Medal of Freedom.

That day, I remember thinking that Mitch McConnell, Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence should've come out, arm in arm, to greet and talk with the "peaceful protesters", making sure that the cameras were rolling. If they were killed, well at least they would've ended up with 73 virgins... each!
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