Trump's "Big Beautiful Bill" - Section 899

659 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 7 days ago by bearister
DiabloWags
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Aside from the usual trade wranglings, Section 899 of this bill (if voted through) effectively introduces the most wide-ranging adverse changes to the tax treatment on foreign capital in the U.S. since the Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 and the Foreign Investors Tax Act of 1966.

After years of foreign investors piling into US assets, experts fear the consequences of Section 899 may be far-reaching.

The provision amounts to "weaponization of US capital markets into law" that "challenges the open nature of US capital markets by explicitly using taxation on foreign holdings of US assets as leverage to further US economic goals," George Saravelos, head of FX research at Deutsche Bank AG, wrote in a report on Thursday. "We see this legislation as creating the scope for the US administration to transform a trade war into a capital war if it so wishes, a development that is highly relevant in the context of today's court decision constraining President Trump on trade policy."

Buyers of US government bounds would ostensibly be less incentivized to buy American debt, since they'll get lower returns, at a time when the US Government arguably really needs them to keep doing so.

Taxing foreign holders of US Treasuries will ultimately reduce demand for American financial assets.

********************************************

"Fast forward to this Friday, and some analysts are playing down the whole Section 899 saga. In the case of Treasuries specifically, they point to carve-outs under the existing Portfolio Interest Exemption (PIE), which, under certain circumstances, exempts bonds where the foreign investor owns less than 10% of the voting power of the issuer. That would probably mean trillions of dollars in both US Treasuries and corporate debt held by foreign investors could escape the tax, and may be why the Joint Committee on Tax has estimated that Section 899 will only increase revenue by about $116 billion over a decade.

All of which raises the question of why bother with Section 899 in the first place if you're only going to simultaneously exempt a majority of US bond holdings? As Michael McNair put it yesterday: "Congress wouldn't draft a 'retaliatory surtax' that raises only a few billion unless they expected the portfolio interest base to re-enter the tax net." Section 899 only really makes sense, he argues, if PIE is simultaneously repealed.

So now, investors around the world are once again left to decide for themselves how serious the administration is about all of this, and whether it will reverse course in the event that investors push back. For all the inconsistencies in some of the administration's policies, you could argue that Trump's love of tariffs, his hatred of imports, and his ambivalence towards exports, are proving to be some of his most consistent positions. And for all the back and forth on a potential Mar-a-Lago Accord aimed at depreciating the dollar, Section 899 sounds a lot like Stephen Miran's suggestion in his 2024 paper of imposing "user fees" on Treasuries. (Miran recently downplayed the paper, describing it as "a zombie that I just haven't been able to kill").

And so, you have analysts like Matt King at Satori Insights arguing that investors shouldn't get too bogged down in the details of Section 899. The key, he argues, is to figure out just how serious Trump is when it comes to clamping down on foreign capital, and how much pain or criticism he's willing to stomach in order to do it.

As King writes:
Quote:

"Ultimately the administration faces the same trade-off as with tariffs: the more limited the application, the lower the revenue generated, and the larger is the hole in the deficit needed to be plugged with domestic taxation or spending cuts. While the obstacles and exemptions may yet mean the impact, both of Section 899 and of tariffs, proves extremely limited, our bet would be the opposite … If the discount on the dollar were larger, or if international investors were more obviously short, the investment conclusion might be less straightforward. But as it is, with US equities still trading at a premium and US Treasuries still at risk of widening vs govies elsewhere, Section 899 seems to us to give investors yet another reason to sell America."

Bloomberg article:

Obscure tax item in Trump's 'Big Bill' stokes Wall Street angst East Bay Times

DiabloWags
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The intent of the measure appears similar in spirit to some proposals advocated in November by Miran while he was still working at hedge fund Hudson Bay Capital. Miran, now chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, called for imposing "user fees" on foreign investors in US Treasuries as part of an aim to weaken the dollar and improve US manufacturers' competitiveness to address global trade imbalances.

"The clause is clearly endorsed by the administration and designed to give Trump a negotiation tool for pressuring countries to drop digital services taxes and global minimum corporate income taxes, which he sees as unfairly targeting US multinational companies," wrote Economist Will Denyer and Tan Kai Xian at Gavekal Research. "The problem is that before Trump has a chance to use the new tool, its very existence may unsettle bond markets."

What Strategists Say

"With tariff revenue more uncertain and less likely to offset tax cuts in the GOP budget bill, traders need to be prepared for tax changes on foreign holders, ultimately reducing demand for American financial assets." Michael Ball, Markets Live macro strategist

For now, the market reaction to Section 899 appears muted, at best. Still, US assets as a whole have been underperformers this year as Trump's policies put a dent in the narrative of the "America exceptionalism."
oski003
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Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?
oski003
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?


No, are you having a nice day?
DiabloWags
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.


oski003
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DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigners' not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?
oski003
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?


Yes, Foreigner is currently on a farewell tour that was announced in 2022 and is being extended into 2025. The tour is called "The Historic Farewell Tour" and includes select dates in the US, Canada, and South America. While the tour is labeled as a farewell, it's expected to continue through at least October 2025.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?


Yes, Foreigner is currently on a farewell tour that was announced in 2022 and is being extended into 2025. The tour is called "The Historic Farewell Tour" and includes select dates in the US, Canada, and South America. While the tour is labeled as a farewell, it's expected to continue through at least October 2025.
Yeah, I think in the back of my mind I knew that. I just couldn't resist gently tweaking you for another of your BI autocorrect errors.
oski003
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?


Yes, Foreigner is currently on a farewell tour that was announced in 2022 and is being extended into 2025. The tour is called "The Historic Farewell Tour" and includes select dates in the US, Canada, and South America. While the tour is labeled as a farewell, it's expected to continue through at least October 2025.
Yeah, I think in the back of my mind I knew that. I just couldn't resist gently tweaking you for another of your BI autocorrect errors.


I use a phone browser. I am not on a PC doing schoolwork or actual work here. And, yes, it autocompleted that word that way.
cal83dls79
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?
they don't record but have a new lead who the women love…probably playing at the Conocti soon. I'm sure '03 and '24 have seats together.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
cal83dls79
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?


Yes, Foreigner is currently on a farewell tour that was announced in 2022 and is being extended into 2025. The tour is called "The Historic Farewell Tour" and includes select dates in the US, Canada, and South America. While the tour is labeled as a farewell, it's expected to continue through at least October 2025.
Yeah, I think in the back of my mind I knew that. I just couldn't resist gently tweaking you for another of your BI autocorrect errors.
Hopeffully the Forieffger tour goes OFF without a hitch and aren't interrupted by cofeve
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
SBGold
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cal83dls79 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?


Yes, Foreigner is currently on a farewell tour that was announced in 2022 and is being extended into 2025. The tour is called "The Historic Farewell Tour" and includes select dates in the US, Canada, and South America. While the tour is labeled as a farewell, it's expected to continue through at least October 2025.
Yeah, I think in the back of my mind I knew that. I just couldn't resist gently tweaking you for another of your BI autocorrect errors.
Hopeffully the Forieffger tour goes OFF without a hitch and aren't interrupted by cofeve
LOL. I used to work at Konocti also!

MAGAts are still losers

VOTE BLUE

Go Bears Forever
cal83dls79
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SBGold said:

cal83dls79 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

DiabloWags said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Do non-resident aliens (NRAs) pay U.S. capital gains tax on the sale of U.S. stocks? Why or why not?
Are you incapable of doing your own research?

Of course not.
He's super lazy.
And suffers from poor reading comprehension.

Post an article on the taxation of US Treasuries by foreign holders in order to turn a tariff war into a capital war and get a question about taxation of capital gains on stocks.





Stop being a dick. Foreigner's not being taxed for capital gains is relevant to the discussion. You could simply answer the question, note it, and opin why it isn't important. Is that too hard?
Does Foreigner even record music or tour these days?


Yes, Foreigner is currently on a farewell tour that was announced in 2022 and is being extended into 2025. The tour is called "The Historic Farewell Tour" and includes select dates in the US, Canada, and South America. While the tour is labeled as a farewell, it's expected to continue through at least October 2025.
Yeah, I think in the back of my mind I knew that. I just couldn't resist gently tweaking you for another of your BI autocorrect errors.
Hopeffully the Forieffger tour goes OFF without a hitch and aren't interrupted by cofeve
LOL. I used to work at Konocti also!

MAGAts are still losers

VOTE BLUE

Go Bears Forever
all the "great" bands end up there. When "your" band plays there you know you are old. Either that band or god forbid a tribute band of theirs.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
DiabloWags
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Sorry, no Konocti. Harbor.

Highland, CA (June 11)
Reno, NV (June 20);
Wheatland, CA (June 21)
bearister
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Consider this fall from grace:

Peter Frampton played at Konocti Harbor Resort & Spa in Kelseyville, CA, in 1992, 1999, and 2009

Peter Frampton came on my radar in May, 1973, when I went to see Johnny Winter at Winterland. Bill Graham often rolled out sh@ity English bands as warm up acts. Out comes a band called Frampton's Camel and I am prepared for them to suck. THEY BLEW THE ROOF OFF! I'm sure Johnny Winter was saying, "F@uck me" when he had to follow that.

Next time I saw Frampton was at Winterland as a solo act in 1975. By 1976 he was selling out the L.A. Coliseum 3 days in a row. Then in a year or two his career was over because of a drug problem and the evaporation of his good song writing skills……and by the 90's he was playing in Clear Lake.

*One of the warm up bands I saw in the early 70's at Winterland was Roxy Music.

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cal83dls79
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I worked for the company that tore down Winterland and built an apartment complex. 2000 Post St Apartments. The Partner had a Winterland Marketing Bilboard/poster in his office.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
DiabloWags
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For me during my high school days at Las Lomas in Walnut Creek, Peter Frampton was GOD.
SBGold
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At Konocti, the GM loved Eddie Money. Like Eddie Money 15+ years past his prime. The GM was a total d bag also

MAGAts hate rock, but love Kid Doesn't Rock

VOTE BLUE

Go Bears Forever
bearister
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cal83dls79 said:

I worked for the company that tore down Winterland and built an apartment complex. 2000 Post St Apartments. The Partner had a Winterland Marketing Bilboard/poster in his office.







*I have often wondered if during demo they ever found any of the thousands of brain cells I left behind there.

I am able to find all the concerts I saw there using this:

Winterland Shows


https://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Winterland%20Shows.htm

*The only time I was scared going there was during the Zebra murders. We got paranoid walking to the car after the show.
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