BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

HawaiiBear33 said:

---

Jan 6 was no insurrection

I watched these videos and they show nothing

I watched videos you posted long ago that showed almost no violence. Go back and look at them


Ashli Babbit was murdered and 5 people were very likely suicided by the left

Now that it's safe for them to speak the truth…

https://www.disclose.tv/id/4vjbepcli3/

---

Are you part of the crowd that thinks the moon landing was staged?

It's really maddening to read you guys time and again claim falsehoods, but I think that's your goal - to just piss people off.

Thousands of MAGA supporters marched to the Capitol and confronted thousands of cops.

While it's true that they fired no guns, it's also true that they pushed cops out of the way, hit them with sticks and poles. They tased cops either their own guns, and threatened to kill them. They smashed windows
They chanted deadly chants and ransacked the building, spreading feces.

Staffers locked themselves into closets or rooms and feared death.

Senators ran away from the angry mob.

That's "violence". And the political stakes were high. This was because of things Trump et al said on stage.

If you'd like to argue that was not an insurrection then please provide definition of "insurrection".

---

Don't you think they would have brought guns if it was really an insurrection?

---

Oh, is that on the books?
It can only be an insurrection if you show up with guns.

---

Not what I said. Yall are great at twisting words. Yes an insurrection COULD happen without guns but don't you think the NRA loving gun totin right wing facists would have brought guns if they were planning an insurrection?

---

Perhaps your news outlets failed to inform you of the premeditated organized efforts by various figures and groups at the Capitol that day.

Here's one

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna104188




Aired years ago I saw much pre-j6 interview footage of him coordinating with others. He documented his arrival in DC and everything.

You are apparently unaware of how bad it
was.

---

And yet they didn't bring guns and starting shooting to the capital. My point stands

---

Then you are an apologist for what happened because there were not shootings.

---

Bro what? All I said was don't you think the group that you all call nazis would have brought guns if they wanted to over throw the government?

---

I had said it was an insurrection.
You said it wasn't because they didn't have guns. I showed tactical gear, which is not worn by people who show up to attend a political speech. You said you didn't see any guns.

I really don't understand how dense you can be.

Trump called for a rally on the day that the electoral college was to formalize the ejection result. He had spent the last two months claiming fraud - none proved, lost all 60 cases. The propaganda invented chant was Stop the Steal. He said they were going to march to the capitol. He said they had to fight or they wouldn't have a country anymore.
Giuliani said "let's have trial by combat", which is fight to the death in many circles.

This ideology, this event, this angry anti-democracy movement was planned ahead of time. Premeditation. And some would say treasonous.

The mob showed up and marched to the capitol. Republicans made speeches that the votes from various states were no good. This was part of the plan because if they could make it so Biden/neither received 270, the vote would go to state legislatures. Republicans had the advantage there.

That was discussed in the news as a Republican path in December. That would be an overthrow of the popular vote. That's where the treason comes in. A coup d'etat.

Are you so stupid to not understand this? We've been at it for 4.5 years!

The Green Bay Sweep, as was bragged by Peter Navarro on Ari Melber's show, did not require Nazis or guns.


The plan failed because Trump's own mob was released and unpredictability unfolded at the capitol. The congressmen all had to flee and their protest procedures were halted.

The scene was so disgusting that GOP leaders like McConnell and McCarthy and Graham ALL. Condemned Trump and placed responsibility at Trump's feet.

Are you so stupid to not have understood this? Trump sent the mob to their house and they felt threatened and they knew that this plan was not going to work.

After everyone was cleared out and the process restarted, they immediately voted as they should have hours prior.

It is absolutely disgusting that people like you cannot see this is THE narrative for January 6. You invent false stories and "tests" to explain it away. "They needed guns". Give me a break and shut the F up!!

Quit with your Bull Shlit!
This was a coup attempt. It was treason against democracy. Trump should be in jail, along with Navarro and Giuliani and…. Every single GOP politician who has gone along with the new-narrative lie should be expelled from public office.


Did you watch the J6 hearings?
Or only the FoxNews recap at night?

Liars Liars Liars

ACC Bear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

I think the FAR more interesting issue is that we are now in an era were "truth" and "facts" are essentially impossible to agree upon.

This becomes a problem because liberal democracy is premised on the idea that there are shared facts. ("If we dam the river we can irrigate the fields. Now we have to determine how to pay for it and deal with any consequences"). But if people do not agree that damming the river allows irrigation (or even that plants NEED irrigation....or that irrigation is actually a plot by pedophiles) than I fear that our politics is horrible stuck.

The conclusion of going all the way down the post-modern rabbit hole is that it will be raw power that imposes truth. It should come as no surprise that the greatest post-modern thinkers were French - who learned in their history that this is precisely what the Jacobins attempted to do.

And you actually see it in spades on this forum (and why I often think it is time to leave and then get sucked in because it is a good excuse to write and work out my own thinking). Above you see how the same event yield radically different truths and (going all grad school) no one has an epistemological framework to "unstuck" us. To me that is actually what is MOST scary about the current time....that there is no pathway forward which lets us get at consensus about what is true. The likely result is is that truth will be imposed with raw political force (and no, this is not a knock on Trump...you could argue the same for the worst excesses of the left's efforts to make all of american history about race and that power would be exerted if you disagreed. I just think the right has taken this to scary scary levels because within the democratic party you had old fashioned pluralists and positivists who laughed at the cringing leftists with their shelves of all of Foucault's work. On the right the purges of the Bush establishment has really allowed the barbarians to swarm).

---

A big reason Trump is President is because Democrat asserted "shared facts" were in fact establishment lies.

---

Well I don't think that is it precisely. What I WOULD say is that the establishment lies about NAFTA and Iraq II clearly didn't do much to convince middle america that DC was on their side. Throw in COVID - which I don't think is a botched response (at all) but it was so disruptive and added to the general feeling that things were chaos...along with public health being imperial *******s.

Those factors along with others opened the DOOR for Trump. The weird results in 2016 that allowed HRC to emerge as the nominee with a decidedly weak electoral record.

And add to the mix just how upside down "Right way/wrong way" polling is. ANY incumbent (just wait till the midterms) is swimming up stream. I realize that talking about tactics is "fun" and fodder for partisan point scoring but I tend to think macro forces are a LOT more important in understanding the moment we are in.

(And no, my complaints about HRC are not a cry for Bernie. Maybe since MONDALE I think we have found that to win a dem has to have ways of appealing to marginally attached voters and/or voters that are more culturally conservative).

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

And yet they didn't bring guns and starting shooting yo the capital. My point stands

---

The gun people forgot to bring their guns on the biggest day of their lives - the day to take over the government in a violent insurrection. But it was worse than 9-11 and Pearl Harbor combined.

---

Did you ever see My Dinner With Andre?
Did you also see Kevin Costner's Waterworld?

Very different films.
But they still captured your $5.

Guns are not necessary for a change in power. You've got to get that out of your heads. In our democracy, we've decided to do it orderly and in a known, understood, anticipated manner.

January 6th's attempt to overturn the election results was anything but. It certainly was illegal.

Look up examples of a Quiet Coup. Bullets abd Explosions not needed.
Study history.
Educate yourselves.

BearlySane88 said:

---

And yet they didn't bring guns and starting shooting yo the capital. My point stands

---

Tell me when you are going out of town next and I'll come sneak into your house and take your stuff. Would that be okay?

Tell me your WiFi router admin login and I will hack your computers, setup spyware and key loggers, and drain your back accounts.

Would that be okay?
No guns involved.

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

And yet they didn't bring guns and starting shooting yo the capital. My point stands

---

Tell me when you are going out of town next and I'll come sneak into your house and take your stuff. Would that be okay?

Tell me your WiFi router admin login and I will hack your computers, setup spyware and key loggers, and drain your back accounts.

Would that be okay?
No guns involved.

---

You make the biggest leaps….When did I say it was okay? I said it wasn't an insurrection. They weren't trying to overthrow the government.

And btw, my neighbor would get you first. Just saying

BearlySane88 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

BearlySane88 said:

---

And yet they didn't bring guns and starting shooting yo the capital. My point stands

---

Tell me when you are going out of town next and I'll come sneak into your house and take your stuff. Would that be okay?

Tell me your WiFi router admin login and I will hack your computers, setup spyware and key loggers, and drain your back accounts.

Would that be okay?
No guns involved.

---

You make the biggest leaps….When did I say it was okay? I said it wasn't an insurrection. They weren't trying to overthrow the government.

And btw, my neighbor would get you first. Just saying

---

lol re the neighbor comment.

I asked you to define insurrection