Cal88 said:

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ChudBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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movielover said:

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President Trump today, Truth Social:

"What's driving up Gasoline is no longer the Strait of Hormuz, because Record Numbers of Barrels are coming out now on an almost daily basis, but the word, 'Refineries,' where Russia's are being blown up by Ukraine, and where ours are being closed up, in Blue States, like California, by the Dumocrats."

Some sites are trimming off the second part (factual domestic criticism).

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And he's correct.

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Then why is Brent Crude over $100?

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It's not at the time of this post.

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If I were as pedantic as you, I would say, it is now.

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What a self own for you, calling yourself pedantic since you did say it.

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Next to zero real content, but always there for petty argumentation.

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Let's remember who made the first pedantic post in this conversation. Get off your high horse.

ChudBear said:

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DiabloWags said:

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ChudBear said:

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Why is it chill for you to pedantically update us on prices but not others?

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Why is it that you aren't able to keep up with daily changes in price?
Or are you just pedantically trolling?

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I didn't make the post first off. Second of all, they were just doing exactly what you do 10 times a day.

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10.

LOL. LMAO even.

But.... but..... but.... there were Trump supporters here that were telling us that the futures contracts further out were priced cheaper than the front month . . . and the oil was flowing freely thru the Strait again.

lol

DiabloWags said:

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But.... but..... but.... there were Trump supporters here that were telling us that the futures contracts further out were priced cheaper than the front month . . . and the oil was flowing freely thru the Strait again.

lol

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Good call to try and divert attention from your last post in this thread.

No deflection whatsoever.
Here's a snapshot of a fairly current price for Brent.

Still over $100.

DiabloWags said:

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No deflection whatsoever.
Here's a snapshot of a fairly current price for Brent.

Still over $100.

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Absolutely pedantic to be posting this. How could you?!

Saudi Aramco CEO says that global oil inventories have been so sharply depleted by the confkuct with Iran that it could take as much as 2 YEARS to rebuild, even after flows through the Strait normalize.

And President Chump is yapping about refineries.

LMFAO!

DiabloWags said:

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Saudi Aramco CEO says that global oil inventories have been so sharply depleted by the confkuct with Iran that it could take as much as 2 YEARS to rebuild, even after flows through the Strait normalize.

And President Chump is yapping about refineries.

LMFAO!

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Why wouldn't he be talking about the lack of refineries?

BearlySane88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Saudi Aramco CEO says that global oil inventories have been so sharply depleted by the confkuct with Iran that it could take as much as 2 YEARS to rebuild, even after flows through the Strait normalize.

And President Chump is yapping about refineries.

LMFAO!

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Why wouldn't he be talking about the lack of refineries?

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Surely, he's got to BLAME someone for high gas prices.
Terribly predictable.

Shocker.

DiabloWags said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Saudi Aramco CEO says that global oil inventories have been so sharply depleted by the confkuct with Iran that it could take as much as 2 YEARS to rebuild, even after flows through the Strait normalize.

And President Chump is yapping about refineries.

LMFAO!

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Why wouldn't he be talking about the lack of refineries?

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Surely, he's got to BLAME someone for high gas prices.
Terribly predictable.

Shocker.

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Are you claiming there isn't a shortage of refineries?

BearlySane88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Saudi Aramco CEO says that global oil inventories have been so sharply depleted by the confkuct with Iran that it could take as much as 2 YEARS to rebuild, even after flows through the Strait normalize.

And President Chump is yapping about refineries.

LMFAO!

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Why wouldn't he be talking about the lack of refineries?

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Surely, he's got to BLAME someone for high gas prices.
Terribly predictable.

Shocker.

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Are you claiming there isn't a shortage of refineries?

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Are you claiming that the U S. is short on diesel?

We arent.
We're OVER SUPPLIED.

Enjoy your night.

DiabloWags said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Saudi Aramco CEO says that global oil inventories have been so sharply depleted by the confkuct with Iran that it could take as much as 2 YEARS to rebuild, even after flows through the Strait normalize.

And President Chump is yapping about refineries.

LMFAO!

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Why wouldn't he be talking about the lack of refineries?

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Surely, he's got to BLAME someone for high gas prices.
Terribly predictable.

Shocker.

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Are you claiming there isn't a shortage of refineries?

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Are you claiming that the U S. is short on diesel?

We arent.
We're OVER SUPPLIED.

Enjoy your night.

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Two things can be true. I'm sorry you can't bring yourself to admit that.

Domestic facilities are operating near peak utilization, leaving virtually no spare cushion to offset severe global fuel shortages.

California has shut over 50% of our refineries since 2,000, the major closures under Newsom. We're on an energy island.

Average cost for a gallon of gas:

CA ...................$6.38
NY ...................$4.47
National Av. $4.37
LA....................$3.93
TX....................$3.89

A friend knows an older Indian couple who run their own medium-size Indian restaurant. Their monthly energy bill is $5,000. And the place is extremely slow since Lockdowns.

You can't compare California gas prices to other states because our fuel is not fungible with other states.

Apples and Oranges.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/fuels-enforcment-program/california-reformulated-gasoline

DiabloWags said:

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You can't compare California gas prices to other states because our fuel is not fungible with other states.

Apples and Oranges.

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Sure we can, you just don't like the implications of policies that hammer the middle and lower classes. Directly because of Progressive policies. This is by design, these clowns think we're Europe. We aren't.

You sound unaware.

Phase 1 of CA Reformulated Gasoline started in 1992.
I guess you enjoy living in a smog filled Los Angeles?

Phase 2 - March 1996

Phase 3 - May 2003

All before Newsome became Governor.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/fuels-enforcment-program/california-reformulated-gasoline

Vitol is a Dutch multinational energy and commodity trading company.

Vitol chief warns of tanker shortage and risk of $200-a-barrel oil https://t.co/1GHUTZUVVt

— Financial Times (@FT) October 6, 2026

Cal88 said:

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Vitol is a Dutch multinational energy and commodity trading company.

Vitol chief warns of tanker shortage and risk of $200-a-barrel oil https://t.co/1GHUTZUVVt

— Financial Times (@FT) October 6, 2026

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They've been saying $200 a barrel since July. Still waiting.

ChudBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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Vitol is a Dutch multinational energy and commodity trading company.

Vitol chief warns of tanker shortage and risk of $200-a-barrel oil https://t.co/1GHUTZUVVt

— Financial Times (@FT) October 6, 2026

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They've been saying $200 a barrel since July. Still waiting.

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Donald Trump has been saying "we are very close to a deal" with Iran since early June.
Yawn.

Trump: US 'very close' to deal with Iran, but demanding stricter nuclear terms | The Times of Israel

DiabloWags said:

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ChudBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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Vitol is a Dutch multinational energy and commodity trading company.

Vitol chief warns of tanker shortage and risk of $200-a-barrel oil https://t.co/1GHUTZUVVt

— Financial Times (@FT) October 6, 2026

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They've been saying $200 a barrel since July. Still waiting.

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Donald Trump has been saying "we are very close to a deal" since early June.
Yawn.

Trump: US 'very close' to deal with Iran, but demanding stricter nuclear terms | The Times of Israel

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Whatboutism at it's finest. Trump will do what's best for the American people, regardless of your wanted timeline.

ChudBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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Vitol is a Dutch multinational energy and commodity trading company.

Vitol chief warns of tanker shortage and risk of $200-a-barrel oil https://t.co/1GHUTZUVVt

— Financial Times (@FT) October 6, 2026

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They've been saying $200 a barrel since July. Still waiting.

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We're already up to $125-$130/barrel, if you take into account the fact that shipping costs have gone up by a factor of 5.

CHART OF THE DAY: The cost of hiring a supertanker to ship oil from the Persian Gulf to the Far East has climbed further, reaching ~$1.3 million per day.

(It was less than $50,000 a day before the war started; and ~$1.1 million when I first published the chart in September) pic.twitter.com/HJ7n2PI3oL

— Javier Blas (@JavierBlas) October 4, 2026

Everyone is focused on the paper price of oil falling today. But look at what is happening in the physical market. Things are escalating fast.

The cost of shipping 2 million barrels of oil jumped another 10%+ today to $22.50 per barrel. https://t.co/b2peg0FZ52 pic.twitter.com/IiYG4KW7q6

— Karel Mercx (@KarelMercx) September 18, 2026

Cal88 said:

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ChudBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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Vitol is a Dutch multinational energy and commodity trading company.

Vitol chief warns of tanker shortage and risk of $200-a-barrel oil https://t.co/1GHUTZUVVt

— Financial Times (@FT) October 6, 2026

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They've been saying $200 a barrel since July. Still waiting.

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We're already up to $125-$130/barrel, if you take into account the fact that shipping costs have gone up by a factor of 5.

CHART OF THE DAY: The cost of hiring a supertanker to ship oil from the Persian Gulf to the Far East has climbed further, reaching ~$1.3 million per day.

(It was less than $50,000 a day before the war started; and ~$1.1 million when I first published the chart in September) pic.twitter.com/HJ7n2PI3oL

— Javier Blas (@JavierBlas) October 4, 2026

Everyone is focused on the paper price of oil falling today. But look at what is happening in the physical market. Things are escalating fast.

The cost of shipping 2 million barrels of oil jumped another 10%+ today to $22.50 per barrel. https://t.co/b2peg0FZ52 pic.twitter.com/IiYG4KW7q6

— Karel Mercx (@KarelMercx) September 18, 2026

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I'm sure you or Diablo will tell us if it ever actually gets to $200

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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DiabloWags said:

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You sound unaware.

Phase 1 of CA Reformulated Gasoline started in 1992.
I guess you enjoy living in a smog filled Los Angeles?

Phase 2 - March 1996

Phase 3 - May 2003

All before Newsome became Governor.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/fuels-enforcment-program/california-reformulated-gasoline

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It's worth noting that California had Republican Governors in 1992 and 1996 (Pete Wilson) and 2003 (Ahnold Schwarzenegger).

Correction: In May 2003, Gray Davis (Democrat) was being recalled but was still Governor. Schwarzenegger didn't take office until several months later.

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I was interested so I did a little research.

California's unique gasoline formulation itself typically adds about 10-15 cents per gallon compared with the U.S. average. California specific environmental programs add substantially more. The two biggest are the Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS) and Cap-and-Trade, which the California Energy Commission currently estimates add about 17 cents and 25 cents per gallon respectively, or roughly 42 cents combined.

Schwarzenegger was governor when the LCFS was created and adopted. The program today is estimated to add about 17 cents per gallon, although that cost developed over time as the standard became more stringent and credit prices changed.

Brown was governor when transportation fuels became subject to Cap-and-Trade. That program today is estimated to add about 25 cents per gallon.

Brown was also governor when SB 1 was passed, which increased California's gasoline excise tax by 12 cents per gallon in 2017, raising it from 29.7 cents to 41.7 cents per gallon.

During Newsom's governorship, the gasoline excise tax has continued to increase through the automatic inflation adjustments created by SB 1. The tax has risen by roughly 16 cents per gallon during his time in office, although the indexing mechanism itself was enacted under Brown.

Newsom's policies helped shut down two huge refineries. Restricted Supply / increased cost.

ChudBear said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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DiabloWags said:

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You sound unaware.

Phase 1 of CA Reformulated Gasoline started in 1992.
I guess you enjoy living in a smog filled Los Angeles?

Phase 2 - March 1996

Phase 3 - May 2003

All before Newsome became Governor.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/fuels-enforcment-program/california-reformulated-gasoline

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It's worth noting that California had Republican Governors in 1992 and 1996 (Pete Wilson) and 2003 (Ahnold Schwarzenegger).

Correction: In May 2003, Gray Davis (Democrat) was being recalled but was still Governor. Schwarzenegger didn't take office until several months later.

---

I was interested so I did a little research.

California's unique gasoline formulation itself typically adds about 10-15 cents per gallon compared with the U.S. average. California specific environmental programs add substantially more. The two biggest are the Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS) and Cap-and-Trade, which the California Energy Commission currently estimates add about 17 cents and 25 cents per gallon respectively, or roughly 42 cents combined.

Schwarzenegger was governor when the LCFS was created and adopted. The program today is estimated to add about 17 cents per gallon, although that cost developed over time as the standard became more stringent and credit prices changed.

Brown was governor when transportation fuels became subject to Cap-and-Trade. That program today is estimated to add about 25 cents per gallon.

Brown was also governor when SB 1 was passed, which increased California's gasoline excise tax by 12 cents per gallon in 2017, raising it from 29.7 cents to 41.7 cents per gallon.

During Newsom's governorship, the gasoline excise tax has continued to increase through the automatic inflation adjustments created by SB 1. The tax has risen by roughly 16 cents per gallon during his time in office, although the indexing mechanism itself was enacted under Brown.

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These are all good policies that should have been implemented nationally years ago. We are so far behind where we should be in terms of moving away from carbon. Americans don't want to pay for any inconvenience but climate change moves on. The insurance companies will continue to make Americans pay. Americans will continue to whine about reality.

Photosynthesis helps feed us; temps up, food production up; starvation down.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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DiabloWags said:

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You sound unaware.

Phase 1 of CA Reformulated Gasoline started in 1992.
I guess you enjoy living in a smog filled Los Angeles?

Phase 2 - March 1996

Phase 3 - May 2003

All before Newsome became Governor.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/fuels-enforcment-program/california-reformulated-gasoline

---

It's worth noting that California had Republican Governors in 1992 and 1996 (Pete Wilson) and 2003 (Ahnold Schwarzenegger).

Correction: In May 2003, Gray Davis (Democrat) was being recalled but was still Governor. Schwarzenegger didn't take office until several months later.

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Yup.

Gray Davis signed Phase 3 of CARB into law with Executive Order D-5-99 on March 25, 1999.
It directed the phase out of Methyl tertiary butyl ether, aka MTBE to commence on Dec. 31, 2002

This is all basic stuff that most people who live in CA and are mechanically inclined know.
So it's funny when I see people posting here about how it's always Newsom's fault.

California Reformulated Gasoline Phase 3 (CaRFG3) | California Air Resources Board

cal83dls79 said:

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movielover said:

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Photosynthesis helps feed us; temps up, food production up; starvation down.

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keeps fungus between your toes strong! Cal Strong! Don't put all your eggs in that basket bud.

While plants buy humanity time by soaking up a portion of excess \(CO_{2}\), photosynthesis cannot stop or reverse global warming on its own. As heat waves and droughts worsen, the ability of plants to act as a reliable carbon sink is declining in many regions.

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Higher CO2 levels help plants sustain droughts. That is the reason that a lot of the greening that occurred in the last few decades took place in arid areas like the Sahel.

The mechanism is pretty basic, with higher levels of CO2, plants have fewer stomates to capture ambiant CO2 and will thus lose less water through these holes. The higher the CO2 levels, the lower the plant water loss through evaporation.

dajo9 said:

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Cal88 said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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movielover said:

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Photosynthesis helps feed us; temps up, food production up; starvation down.

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keeps fungus between your toes strong! Cal Strong! Don't put all your eggs in that basket bud.

While plants buy humanity time by soaking up a portion of excess \(CO_{2}\), photosynthesis cannot stop or reverse global warming on its own. As heat waves and droughts worsen, the ability of plants to act as a reliable carbon sink is declining in many regions.

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Higher CO2 levels help plants sustain droughts. That is the reason that a lot of the greening that occurred in the last few decades took place in arid areas like the Sahel.

The mechanism is pretty basic, with higher levels of CO2, plants have fewer stomates to capture ambiant CO2 and will thus lose less water through these holes. The higher the CO2 levels, the lower the plant water loss through evaporation.

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These claims ignore that most output increases are due to higher inputs and technological advances and they also ignore that higher CO2 crops have less nutritional value so even if the crop goes up the nutrition does not necessarily follow.

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Anytime you have higher crop yields, you will have lower nutritional content, a "dilution effect" where the concentration of certain minerals and proteins decreases as overall biomass increases, that is true of all processes that increase plant yields.

This can be mitigated through soil fertilizer management:

The Dilution Effect

• Yield vs. Density: Decades of selective breeding for rapid growth, larger sizes, and heavy volumes (calories and tonnes per hectare) have outpaced the plant's capacity to absorb or synthesize proportional micronutrients. [1]
• Starch and Carbohydrates: Rapid growthwhether driven by high-yield genetics or elevated carbon dioxidetends to increase carbohydrate and starch accumulation, which dilutes minerals like iron, zinc, and calcium per unit of weight. [1]

Exceptions and Solutions

• Balanced Nutrition: Lower nutrition is not an absolute rule; optimized, balanced soil fertility management can improve both yield and total nutrient uptake without sacrificing quality. [1]
• Modern Breeding: Research programs are actively working on biofortification and resilient crop varieties to break the inverse relationship between high yields and nutritional density. [1]

Photosynthesis/biomass growth vs CO2 concentration for rice: