Trump vs. Marshawn
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Last: 6 yr ago by tequila4kapp
Bash dark-skinned people to delight the racist, under-educated "base". Rinse. Repeat. And this comes hours after the "I should have left them in jail!" tweet. We're living in the Idiocracy Twilight Zone.
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears!
Go Bears!
why would you disrespect your father like that? what was you father fighting for? freedom maybe? or only the freedoms that you agree with?yosemitebear said:
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears
Graguna, thanks for the keen insight.
Go Bears!
Go Bears!
yosemitebear said:
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears!
Marshawn has ton a ton of good things in his community, which he has never forgotten. Even today, he's a frequent presence at his high school.
Yet this symbolic thing is what turns you off him?
Also, did this turn you off of the Olympics?
Potus telling the NFL whom to suspend and for how long for a non crime. That's the kind of small gov I like.
I support continuing to discuss racial (in)equality and generally support the protests. I recognize his *right* to sit. I dont like it. I dont think it makes sense. I certainly dont support people doing it.
I like Lynch and his work in Oakland. I like Kap and think he is a smart and good guy. Kap was nice to me and everyone else I have seen him interact with live. I dont support them disrespecting the country, IMO. I dont typically talk about it because I dont really care, though. It is pretty mild. But the idea that I need to support it because veterans "fought for their freedom to protest" is asinine.
(this is a much more edge case, admittedly: ) Do you support the self-styled "Nazi's" waving their swastikas? Our veterans "fought for their right" to wave around a flag and act like idiots. Our Vets fought real Nazis, and still maintained the right to wave around their ****ty flag. That doesnt make it right, and me being extremely against it is in absolutely no way disrespectful of what former servicemen fought for. That argument is complete bull***** Freedom isnt about blind support of everything that isnt illegal. To be clear, A HUGE number of people serving in WWII disliked black people. To pretend that our country wasnt racist in WWII is equally absurd.
I used to get very upset about people talking during the anthem. But, and only people who spent time on a military installation will understand this, I would also scatter like a cockroach if colors was close just so I wouldnt have to stand at attention for a few minutes. Is that disrespectful? Maybe. Now I worry about myself and educating people on why the Anthem is important to me.
But IMHO the standing for the Mexican National Anthem is absurd. Mexico is absurdly racist. It shows that Lynch is leading through ignorance, and I dont support that either.
That said, I still like Lynch. I just dont support his actions simply because he is free to do them. But, sometimes to make progress, people will do things I dont support.
(In the event that it needs to be said, what the POTUS is doing is something we shouldnt support, and I dont think he has the "freedom" to do it. Attacking individual private citizens on twitter is too close to infringing on their rights, IMO.)
I like Lynch and his work in Oakland. I like Kap and think he is a smart and good guy. Kap was nice to me and everyone else I have seen him interact with live. I dont support them disrespecting the country, IMO. I dont typically talk about it because I dont really care, though. It is pretty mild. But the idea that I need to support it because veterans "fought for their freedom to protest" is asinine.
(this is a much more edge case, admittedly: ) Do you support the self-styled "Nazi's" waving their swastikas? Our veterans "fought for their right" to wave around a flag and act like idiots. Our Vets fought real Nazis, and still maintained the right to wave around their ****ty flag. That doesnt make it right, and me being extremely against it is in absolutely no way disrespectful of what former servicemen fought for. That argument is complete bull***** Freedom isnt about blind support of everything that isnt illegal. To be clear, A HUGE number of people serving in WWII disliked black people. To pretend that our country wasnt racist in WWII is equally absurd.
I used to get very upset about people talking during the anthem. But, and only people who spent time on a military installation will understand this, I would also scatter like a cockroach if colors was close just so I wouldnt have to stand at attention for a few minutes. Is that disrespectful? Maybe. Now I worry about myself and educating people on why the Anthem is important to me.
But IMHO the standing for the Mexican National Anthem is absurd. Mexico is absurdly racist. It shows that Lynch is leading through ignorance, and I dont support that either.
That said, I still like Lynch. I just dont support his actions simply because he is free to do them. But, sometimes to make progress, people will do things I dont support.
(In the event that it needs to be said, what the POTUS is doing is something we shouldnt support, and I dont think he has the "freedom" to do it. Attacking individual private citizens on twitter is too close to infringing on their rights, IMO.)
This is all such nonsense - Black Lives Matter and these protests.
For every white cop who kills a black man 3000 black men are killed by other black men.
These protests are like a man with stage four lung cancer continuing to smoke and complaining about his severely infected toe. Yes, that toe is a problem and needs to be treated, but in context it is absurd to make it the main focus of attention.
There are bad cops, racist cops, lying cops and problem cops - I saw it for over 30 years working in law enforcement and talked about it to the press. These individuals need to be fired.
The black community has several terrible problems - violence by its own members, a 67% rate of births out of wedlock, extremely high rates of unemployment among the young,, poor education etc. These are far mote important problems to address. But addressing addressing them involves criticizing people who are not in law enforcement, so these protesters don't want to address those issues.
For every white cop who kills a black man 3000 black men are killed by other black men.
These protests are like a man with stage four lung cancer continuing to smoke and complaining about his severely infected toe. Yes, that toe is a problem and needs to be treated, but in context it is absurd to make it the main focus of attention.
There are bad cops, racist cops, lying cops and problem cops - I saw it for over 30 years working in law enforcement and talked about it to the press. These individuals need to be fired.
The black community has several terrible problems - violence by its own members, a 67% rate of births out of wedlock, extremely high rates of unemployment among the young,, poor education etc. These are far mote important problems to address. But addressing addressing them involves criticizing people who are not in law enforcement, so these protesters don't want to address those issues.
Jesus you are a racist *****CAL6371 said:
This is all such nonsense - Black Lives Matter and these protests.
For every white cop who kills a black man 3000 black men are killed by other black men.
These protests are like a man with stage four lung cancer continuing to smoke and complaining about his severely infected toe. Yes, that toe is a problem and needs to be treated, but in context it is absurd to make it the main focus of attention.
There are bad cops, racist cops, lying cops and problem cops - I saw it for over 30 years working in law enforcement and talked about it to the press. These individuals need to be fired.
The black community has several terrible problems - violence by its own members, a 67% rate of births out of wedlock, extremely high rates of unemployment among the young,, poor education etc. These are far mote important problems to address. But addressing addressing them involves criticizing people who are not in law enforcement, so these protesters don't want to address those issues.
knob - what a meaningless term. Life is tribal.
No one should ever have to worry about the government killing them.CAL6371 said:
This is all such nonsense - Black Lives Matter and these protests.
For every white cop who kills a black man 3000 black men are killed by other black men.
These protests are like a man with stage four lung cancer continuing to smoke and complaining about his severely infected toe. Yes, that toe is a problem and needs to be treated, but in context it is absurd to make it the main focus of attention.
There are bad cops, racist cops, lying cops and problem cops - I saw it for over 30 years working in law enforcement and talked about it to the press. These individuals need to be fired.
The black community has several terrible problems - violence by its own members, a 67% rate of births out of wedlock, extremely high rates of unemployment among the young,, poor education etc. These are far mote important problems to address. But addressing addressing them involves criticizing people who are not in law enforcement, so these protesters don't want to address those issues.
yosemitebear said:
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears!
I've made it clear that I don't like the national anthem protests, but I don't understand how standing for the Mexican anthem makes it worse. The protest isn't about anthems. It is about perceived injustice in the AMERICAN criminal justice system. Why would somebody making that protest sit for the Mexican anthem? Would you have expected American bronze medal winners in the 1968 Olympics to give the black power salute on the medal stand while they played God Save the Queen?
As for the other poster's point about Mexico being worse, so what? Mexico isn't our country. I certainly don't think that the standard for protesting for the betterment of our country is that if we aren't the worst in the world at something you have to protest every country below us. I guess this is the difference between viewing protest as an unpatriotic act of disrespect vs. viewing is as a patriotic attempt to make this country the best it can be regardless of how it compares to others.
Not even the late Charles Manson?LunchTime said:No one should ever have to worry about the government killing them.CAL6371 said:
This is all such nonsense - Black Lives Matter and these protests.
For every white cop who kills a black man 3000 black men are killed by other black men.
These protests are like a man with stage four lung cancer continuing to smoke and complaining about his severely infected toe. Yes, that toe is a problem and needs to be treated, but in context it is absurd to make it the main focus of attention.
There are bad cops, racist cops, lying cops and problem cops - I saw it for over 30 years working in law enforcement and talked about it to the press. These individuals need to be fired.
The black community has several terrible problems - violence by its own members, a 67% rate of births out of wedlock, extremely high rates of unemployment among the young,, poor education etc. These are far mote important problems to address. But addressing addressing them involves criticizing people who are not in law enforcement, so these protesters don't want to address those issues.
Ah, what am I saying? I'm against the death penalty...
All these conflicting thoughts and feelings: I think I'm a weirdo or something, because the anthem protests don't really bother me and I especially don't take it as disrespect to the military. You know what kind of bothers me, though? When Cal people change the words to the anthem to make it more "Cal"! ("rockets' blue glare", "home of the Bears", etc.) To me, that is just lame, lame, lame. At least "the kneelers" have a greater point they are trying to make.
Don't even get me started on having kids say the Pledge of Allegiance at school: Is coercing them to say something by rote -- without thinking about what they are saying -- going to help them be enlightened citizens in our democracy?
On a side note, how long until this thread is moved to OT? Anyone posting odds?
Curious... why are you taking this stand?
Why not Cal Football?
The flag code states that the flag must not be used in athletic uniform, and must not touch the ground.
Both of which occur on the football field. The helmets have a flag, and those helmet flags get driven into the dirt.
Oh yeah. I know........that's different.
Why not Cal Football?
The flag code states that the flag must not be used in athletic uniform, and must not touch the ground.
Both of which occur on the football field. The helmets have a flag, and those helmet flags get driven into the dirt.
Oh yeah. I know........that's different.
CAL6371 said:
This is all such nonsense - Black Lives Matter and these protests.
For every white cop who kills a black man 3000 black men are killed by other black men.
These protests are like a man with stage four lung cancer continuing to smoke and complaining about his severely infected toe. Yes, that toe is a problem and needs to be treated, but in context it is absurd to make it the main focus of attention.
There are bad cops, racist cops, lying cops and problem cops - I saw it for over 30 years working in law enforcement and talked about it to the press. These individuals need to be fired.
The black community has several terrible problems - violence by its own members, a 67% rate of births out of wedlock, extremely high rates of unemployment among the young,, poor education etc. These are far mote important problems to address. But addressing addressing them involves criticizing people who are not in law enforcement, so these protesters don't want to address those issues.
To address one of your points, the entire issue is that injustice perpetuated by police is seldom punished. The bad apples need to be fired, prosecuted, convicted, etc., but it just doesn't happen. Look up the stats on how many cops are actually charged with a crime, and then look at how many of those who are charged are even convicted. It's microscopic. Add in the fact that even the so-called good apples stand in formation in the blue wall of silence, and it's easy to see how people might think the entire system is stacked against them.
And the presence of one problem doesn't preclude addressing another. To use your analogy, the stage IV lung CA patient might have 6 months of quality life left, but his septic infected toe will kill him by tomorrow. Shouldn't he complain about it, and shouldn't it be addressed?
very disappointed in ML-thought he could rise above this-he is done in my book
I support the rights of white supremacists to express their opinion, but I hate them. I support Marshawn's right to protest unfair treatment of US citizens by their government, and I admire him! It may not be pretty, but history shows us that this is what progress looks like.
Marshawn may be ignorant of bad behavior by Mexican police, as am I, but it is best to deal with the problem that we have some control over.
Marshawn may be ignorant of bad behavior by Mexican police, as am I, but it is best to deal with the problem that we have some control over.
Why does what the NFL do bother you? Why do we hold these players in such high esteem? They mean nothing to me and don't threaten my rights or yours in any direct way. Their visible protest is your choice to be bothered by. It's all meaningless to me. Keep the players inside before the national anthem like they used to do before the DOD paid the NFL to have them on the field. Haven't we Cal fans disrespected the national anthem as we have changed the words at CMS before our home games??
I was walking through downtown Oakland the other week and came upon the Breastmode store. Marshawn was out front cajoling a kid to do something. As it turns out, he was carting around a bunch of kids on his day off or after practice in the company van. I thought to myself, what NFL superstar would be doing this, not many. I wanted to stop and say something but clearly he was taking care of business. This guy is for real. He talks the talk and walks the walk.
I've always loved Marshawn and love his dedication to Oakland his generosity with Oakland and youths.
I've always detested Trump.
With all that said, I wish Marshawn hadn't done that on Sunday. Really bad look at best. Will be viewed as a sign of disrespect by many.
I've always detested Trump.
With all that said, I wish Marshawn hadn't done that on Sunday. Really bad look at best. Will be viewed as a sign of disrespect by many.
Very good post. The logic in that one was a bit weird.OaktownBear said:yosemitebear said:
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears!
I've made it clear that I don't like the national anthem protests, but I don't understand how standing for the Mexican anthem makes it worse. The protest isn't about anthems. It is about perceived injustice in the AMERICAN criminal justice system. Why would somebody making that protest sit for the Mexican anthem? Would you have expected American bronze medal winners in the 1968 Olympics to give the black power salute on the medal stand while they played God Save the Queen?
As for the other poster's point about Mexico being worse, so what? Mexico isn't our country. I certainly don't think that the standard for protesting for the betterment of our country is that if we aren't the worst in the world at something you have to protest every country below us. I guess this is the difference between viewing protest as an unpatriotic act of disrespect vs. viewing is as a patriotic attempt to make this country the best it can be regardless of how it compares to others.
72CalBear said:
Why does what the NFL do bother you? Why do we hold these players in such high esteem? They mean nothing to me and don't threaten my rights or yours in any direct way. Their visible protest is your choice to be bothered by. It's all meaningless to me. Keep the players inside before the national anthem like they used to do before the DOD paid the NFL to have them on the field. Haven't we Cal fans disrespected the national anthem as we have changed the words at CMS before our home games??
The being out for the National Anthem rule was started in 2009, which for those young folks on this board, is the same season that we last beat Stanford and last won at the Rose Bowl.
The people who rail against how political correctness is destroying our society are the same people who rail against Marshawn doing what is politically incorrect.
You people who are against political correctness should be applauding Marshawn. Unless you're a hypocrite. Or unless you feel only white people should be allowed to be politically incorrect.
What bothers me is that we can't have an honest discussion about the issue.72CalBear said:
Why does what the NFL do bother you? Why do we hold these players in such high esteem? They mean nothing to me and don't threaten my rights or yours in any direct way. Their visible protest is your choice to be bothered by. It's all meaningless to me. Keep the players inside before the national anthem like they used to do before the DOD paid the NFL to have them on the field. Haven't we Cal fans disrespected the national anthem as we have changed the words at CMS before our home games??
Obvious problem when one anthem is protested, but the other is not.
Well, no one is changing their opinion on this topic based on discussion in a fan forum, but I guess everyone is just giving their two cents. I'll just say that one thing I wished people could agree on is that the American flag represents all Americans, not just US soldiers.
It's not a protest against anthems at-large. It's a protest against a specific issue within the American criminal justice system. Which is not particularly related to the Mexican or other random national anthems.Strykur said:
Obvious problem when one anthem is protested, but the other is not.
I view Marshawn standing during the Mexican National Anthem as another way of bringing to view the injustice imbedded in our criminal justice system. Whatever it was, I have to say that it is much easier to stand for the National Anthem as a sign of one's love for our country than it is to kneel down as protest of an injustice of any kind. In my opinion, when NFL players kneel down as a sign of protest, they are showing that they love our country so much that they are willing to go that far to bring to light the injustices that exist in our criminal justice system and to take the heat that comes with it. I respect that much more than someone
That stands during the National Anthem and criticizes people that have the courage to do the opposite. My friend, during the Vietnam war was always telling people that protested the war, "America, love it or leave." When he was drafted, he claimed consciousness objector. See what I mean?
That stands during the National Anthem and criticizes people that have the courage to do the opposite. My friend, during the Vietnam war was always telling people that protested the war, "America, love it or leave." When he was drafted, he claimed consciousness objector. See what I mean?
I would hope they would: the racial inequality in the Americas is rooted in the UK, French, Spanish, etc Emipres need to have profitable colonies. To dismiss that is pretty simplistic.OaktownBear said:yosemitebear said:
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears!
I've made it clear that I don't like the national anthem protests, but I don't understand how standing for the Mexican anthem makes it worse. The protest isn't about anthems. It is about perceived injustice in the AMERICAN criminal justice system. Why would somebody making that protest sit for the Mexican anthem? Would you have expected American bronze medal winners in the 1968 Olympics to give the black power salute on the medal stand while they played God Save the Queen?
As for the other poster's point about Mexico being worse, so what? Mexico isn't our country. I certainly don't think that the standard for protesting for the betterment of our country is that if we aren't the worst in the world at something you have to protest every country below us. I guess this is the difference between viewing protest as an unpatriotic act of disrespect vs. viewing is as a patriotic attempt to make this country the best it can be regardless of how it compares to others.
Also, the issue I have with the standing for the Mexican anthem is that if it is about race and inequality (and it is), it seems disingenuous to make the statement that only Americans matter. It oddly mixes in Nationalism.
What do you all think about third trimester abortion? You know, the point in time where the fetus has fingers and toes, practices making facial expressions, reacts to stresses, and anticipates touch?
Me, I'm all for it.
Me, I'm all for it.
When Blacks in America protested against segregation and for civil rights, Blacks in South Africa faced a more stringent form of segregation and arguably had it worse than Blacks in America. Yet it took another 20-30 years for people to take up the cause of South Africans. Were they wrong or "nationalist" for not taking up the cause of South Africans while fighting for their rights at home?LunchTime said:I would hope they would: the racial inequality in the Americas is rooted in the UK, French, Spanish, etc Emipres need to have profitable colonies. To dismiss that is pretty simplistic.OaktownBear said:yosemitebear said:
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears!
I've made it clear that I don't like the national anthem protests, but I don't understand how standing for the Mexican anthem makes it worse. The protest isn't about anthems. It is about perceived injustice in the AMERICAN criminal justice system. Why would somebody making that protest sit for the Mexican anthem? Would you have expected American bronze medal winners in the 1968 Olympics to give the black power salute on the medal stand while they played God Save the Queen?
As for the other poster's point about Mexico being worse, so what? Mexico isn't our country. I certainly don't think that the standard for protesting for the betterment of our country is that if we aren't the worst in the world at something you have to protest every country below us. I guess this is the difference between viewing protest as an unpatriotic act of disrespect vs. viewing is as a patriotic attempt to make this country the best it can be regardless of how it compares to others.
Also, the issue I have with the standing for the Mexican anthem is that if it is about race and inequality (and it is), it seems disingenuous to make the statement that only Americans matter. It oddly mixes in Nationalism.
Americans have little influence over Mexico or any of the other UK, French, Spanish, etc. former colonies. If Marshawn wishes to kneel for the Spanish national anthem to protest the oppression of Catalunya, fine by me, but he is not required to do so in order to make a point about what he views as oppression in the United States as an American citizen.
And yes, as a citizen of the United States, as a member of it's culture and society, as a voter and tax payer I have more of a right and responsibility to see that my country's policies are just than I do every other country in the world. And as a practical matter there is no freaking way I can protest every injustice in the world. Basically your criticism essentially undercuts every single person who protests anything anywhere.
Your point is??? I missed it.
Sorry...response to the wrong post.
Love Marshawn, hate what he did. Still respect him to a degree, but he lost a little respect from me as well.
I'm with you. I respect his right to protest, but I deplore the way he is going about it.BBBGOBEARS said:
very disappointed in ML-thought he could rise above this-he is done in my book
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