BearGoggles said:
OaktownBear said:
BearGoggles said:
OaktownBear said:
LunchTime said:
OaktownBear said:
yosemitebear said:
I don't agree with our President's frequent tweeting but Marshawn's actions are the key issue here. My father, a WWII veteran, made sure that as young boys my brother and I showed respect during the playing of the National Anthem. It was very important to him and I have carried that attitude until today. Standing for one anthem over another has taken me over the breaking point. The NFL has lost most of its allure for me and sadly Marshawn is no longer someone I will follow or cheer for.
Go Bears!
I've made it clear that I don't like the national anthem protests, but I don't understand how standing for the Mexican anthem makes it worse. The protest isn't about anthems. It is about perceived injustice in the AMERICAN criminal justice system. Why would somebody making that protest sit for the Mexican anthem? Would you have expected American bronze medal winners in the 1968 Olympics to give the black power salute on the medal stand while they played God Save the Queen?
As for the other poster's point about Mexico being worse, so what? Mexico isn't our country. I certainly don't think that the standard for protesting for the betterment of our country is that if we aren't the worst in the world at something you have to protest every country below us. I guess this is the difference between viewing protest as an unpatriotic act of disrespect vs. viewing is as a patriotic attempt to make this country the best it can be regardless of how it compares to others.
I would hope they would: the racial inequality in the Americas is rooted in the UK, French, Spanish, etc Emipres need to have profitable colonies. To dismiss that is pretty simplistic.
Also, the issue I have with the standing for the Mexican anthem is that if it is about race and inequality (and it is), it seems disingenuous to make the statement that only Americans matter. It oddly mixes in Nationalism.
When Blacks in America protested against segregation and for civil rights, Blacks in South Africa faced a more stringent form of segregation and arguably had it worse than Blacks in America. Yet it took another 20-30 years for people to take up the cause of South Africans. Were they wrong or "nationalist" for not taking up the cause of South Africans while fighting for their rights at home?
Americans have little influence over Mexico or any of the other UK, French, Spanish, etc. former colonies. If Marshawn wishes to kneel for the Spanish national anthem to protest the oppression of Catalunya, fine by me, but he is not required to do so in order to make a point about what he views as oppression in the United States as an American citizen.
And yes, as a citizen of the United States, as a member of it's culture and society, as a voter and tax payer I have more of a right and responsibility to see that my country's policies are just than I do every other country in the world. And as a practical matter there is no freaking way I can protest every injustice in the world. Basically your criticism essentially undercuts every single person who protests anything anywhere.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think there is a lot of nuance presented by your analogy. For example, what should Tommie Smith and John Carlos have done in 1968 if/when the South African anthem was played? What would 1960s civil rights protesters have done if the SA anthem was played? Obviously, there is no "requirement" that they protest racial or criminal injustice outside the US, but it does go to credibility and context if they don't.
I agree that we all have a greater stake in the political systems and "facts on the ground" in our own country, but that doesn't mean we should overlook comparable injustice in other countries - or perhaps have context as to how our imperfect country compares to other countries.
If standing for an anthem is a sign of respect (or contra, kneeling is a sign of protest), then it does call into question how Marshawn (or others) can protest perceived racial injustice in the US by kneeling, and then stand in respect for an equally imperfect foreign country's national anthem - and when it comes to racial/socio-economic justice, equal protections, etc., a strong case can be made that Mexico and/or England (where other games have been played) are far worse than the US. And that is why standing for the Mexican anthem seems relevant in my view.
I would also add that these types of protests used to not occur on foreign soil - that tradition has eroded in recent years.
Bottom line for me is I like Marshawn - I think he's good hearted and sincere - his actions over a long period of time speak to that. I don't think that about Kap and he certainly does not have Marshawn's long track record of giving back and speaking up for his community (and I disagree with the prior poster who said they thought Kap was intelligent - I've seen no indication of that). I don't like the kneeling, but the players have that right. It hasn't caused me to stop watching NFL games - though apparently many people have (which of course is their right). From the NFL's perspective, it is foolish of them to permit the kneeling for business reasons (why alienate a significant portion of your fan base), but it is a private company and can act however it wants.
Then BG, I have to say I'm disappointed in you. There have been literally thousands of posts here that I would have thought you disagreed with, but given ample opportunity to express your disagreement, you have not. I can only assume you agree with those posts. Of course you are not required to disagree, but it certainly goes to credibility when you don't.
And worse. You disagree with good Cal fans when there are far more egregious posts on the Stanford, USC, and UCLA boards. Nothing from you there.
Nice dodge. Obviously a big difference between a celebrity/athlete making a political statement on national tv (when confronted with two anthems played back to back) vs. posters on an internet bulletin board. But of course, you knew that. No one is asking Marshawn (or whoever) to protest every injustice in the world. But protesting your country's anthem while immediately thereafter honoring another country's anthem by standing - on foreign soil - is a pretty obviously connection/comparison. Why not kneel for both? I understand your point - that he's not obligated to protest the other country - but don't be surprised when people negatively point out the disparity in how Marshawn (or whoever) respects his own country's flag/anthem vs. the foreign country's.
And I note that its not entirely clear what Marshawn was doing - because he hasn't and won't say. But in the earlier game in England, athletes did kneel for ours and stand for theirs.
OaktownBear - this is well below your typically well thought out posts. Try again. You can do better.
Sorry, but I think you are the one either with the poorly thought out post, or it is a well thought out obfuscation. Basically you are engaging in the latest dodge in political discourse. What John Oliver comedically called "whataboutism". Faced with a position you don't like, you say "oh yeah. What about this or that." The anthem protests are about the treatment of Black Americans by American law enforcement. It has nothing to do with Mexico. It does nothing to the credibility of Marshawn's point if he is not aware of or not concerned with the practices of Mexican law enforcement. (Frankly my knowledge of Mexican law enforcement is basically the line "badges? We don't need no stinking badges"). Given what his protest is, there was no logical connection to protesting the Mexican anthem. It is purely an illogical, emotional response that it is somehow saying Mexico is better than the US when it clearly is not saying that if anyone thought about it for 1 second rather than giving a visceral response.
Ill acknowledge for you right now that I think our current criminal justice system ranks high in the world. But I hold it to a higher standard as it is the one I pay for, that protects me and that represents me. If my A student child comes to me with a C and I say what the hell, I'm not going to put up with "what about Billy? He always gets C's.". Frankly, I don't give a damn about Mexico's internal practices. If I choose to protest US practice on something, it is not saying the US is worse than any where else in the world. It is saying I believe my country can do better.
