I'm getting a panicky feeling that he will never be stopped.
I liken him to Hitler. There is an evil movement afoot.

concordtom said:

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I'm getting a panicky feeling that he will never be stopped.
I liken him to Hitler. There is an evil movement afoot.

---

Nooooo....be careful what you wish for.

Trump is utterly terrible indeed.

But as the saying goes, "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't."


Many people here say, well, at least Trump isn't as crazy as Pence. Or "I trust him to lead the country."

But he was incompetent as Indiana governor.

Here he is getting booed 4 months before Trump named him his runningmate (which was a lifeline since he was so unpopular in Indiana).



Pence will do everything sh*tty that Trump has done or will do, but he will do it under the veneer of looking competent and not thick-skinned.

He's a politician. He knows how to handle the Hamilton situation. He/his family turned John Oliver trying to troll him into his anti-gay stance to his/their benefit. He got Joy Behar to (rightly) apologize.

He is good at prompting people to sink to below his level, and then making it look like he's above it all.

He'll be kind of like Paul Ryan, who is also utterly horrible, but says enough or does enough to look like he's a genius (at least to the Washington press).

And if Pence becomes president for a significant amount of time and the economy is good, he may stand a chance of being elected to a full term.

Anybody will be a step up from Trump. Hell, this is on the front page of WashigntonPost.com as I type.

But you are going to get more of the same with Pence. More of the same incompetence. The same hatred. (though he'll quote MLK!!).

But it'll be boring.

Which results in fewer people paying attention (unlike now).


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/donald-trump-may-be-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-george-w-bush/2018/05/11/69ae6c7a-5319-11e8-9c91-7dab596e8252_story.html

Pence is also dirty with Russkie influence. Manafort brought him in as part of the deal. Pence is potentially gone too if Trump goes down, if the take down is Russkie related. In any case, I'd like to say Pence isn't going to pull a Gerald Ford and pardoning Trump after resignation or impeachment...but he probably will if given the chance. But the reaction will be brutal. If there's nothing on Pence, then he'll get tagged like Ford as NOT elected.

The big thing about Pence if he follows Trump is he doesn't have the same chaos media game, so the media is going to go after him with all the pent up Trump anger, and it will not be pretty.


My total guess, Manafort is dirty as cow crap in a porta-potty and that will roll over to Pence. Pence is the Russkie choice because he'll do the most damage to America and American democracy. I think the Russkies and Manafort thought a few step ahead and figured Trump would self-implode, so get a real creep in the #2 spot to fill the void.

If Trump goes, so does Pence. They both committed same acts.

Our system of checks and balances doesn't work very well if it takes 4 years to work.

And the whole electoral college thing should be blown up.
If they aren't going to do their job of vote with their conscience, what's the point? That why they were created. Just go popular vote then.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/21/trump-vs-the-deep-state

" Midway through its second year, Trump's White House is at war within and without, racing to banish the "disloyals" and to beat back threatening information. Bit by bit, the White House is becoming Trump's Emerald City: isolated, fortified against nonbelievers, entranced by its mythmaker, and constantly vulnerable to the risks of revelation." Evan Osnos, New Yorker

Bonus article:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/sean-hannity-donald-trump-late-night-calls.html

Newt was a clown for impeaching Bubba without the votes to convict in the Senate. Pelosi (or hopefully an upgrade) also won't have the votes in the Senate. Hyper partisanship has broken the system.

Let Mueller's investigation proceed. If there truly is a smoking gun, several of his crew and potentially his kids are going to the big house. In that case, neither Trunp nor Pence could win in 2020 unless the Dems nominate HRC again. Haley has to be pissed that she went to the UN and will have to wait until 2024 to take a shot after being associated with Trump. Ben Sasse has to be stoked.

BearDevil said:

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Newt was a clown for impeaching Bubba without the votes to convict in the Senate. Pelosi (or hopefully an upgrade) also won't have the votes in the Senate. Hyper partisanship has broken the system.

Let Mueller's investigation proceed. If there truly is a smoking gun, several of his crew and potentially his kids are going to the big house. In that case, neither Trunp nor Pence could win in 2020 unless the Dems nominate HRC again. Haley has to be pissed that she went to the UN and will have until 2024. Ben Sasse has to be stoked.

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You are wrong to conflate the two situations. Newt was a clown for criminalizing politics and trying to impeach over lying about a blow job.

We're at 15 month with the Trump Russia probe. Watergate took two years to break open and Nixon to resign. Democracy works slow. We have another year, and from reports Mueller is working at a break neck speed for a federal investigation.

concordtom said:

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And the whole electoral college thing should be blown up.
If they aren't going to do their job of vote with their conscience, what's the point? That why they were created. Just go popular vote then.

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The problem is land has more power -- in the presidential election, in the House of Representatives and in the Senate.

Land rules. And land likes Trump.

Although Woody is 2 years younger than Pence, his vibe is 30 years younger.

For those interested in trivia, Woody's dad, Charles, was a professional hitman that whacked a sitting Federal judge. He once claimed he was involved in the JFK assassination but that claim was allegedly debunked.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Harrelson

Seriously, don't wait on the Mueller investigation. I have no faith that if Mueller finds video evidence of Putin giving Trump a bag with a giant money sign on it, that Republicans would press charges or move for impeachment.

The best thing you can do, is try to convince as many similar voters to register (particularly those in swing states and districts). The only change we can hope for is on election day 2018. The most important issue this mid-term is the gaining of state legislatures, this prevents future gerry-mandering and will alter the next decade of national politics.

bearisterAlthough Woody is 2 years younger than Pence, his vibe is 30 years younger[/quote said:

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Theoretically Santorum, Pence, Obama, and Woody could have attended high school or college together. Santorum and Pence were frat boys, so there's no doubt they lived with guys who smoked pot and had pre-marital sex, which they vehemently oppose. Also likely had gay friends who were deeply closeted at the time. So odd to see guys like them along with Mitt (looks painfully awkward in jeans) and Christie who were ridiculously out of touch with their peers as young adults.

My political dream did not come true today.
Sigh....

Revenge may come in the form of self implosion by Trump, to the extent that he universally is rebuked and sullies his name long term so badly that he has 100% vacancies in his properties, sells zero Trump product, goes financially bankrupt, and his offspring and all descendants decide to go back to the last name Drumpf so as to not be forever heckled in public.

The name Trump is mud.

He dies penniless under a freeway overpass begging for a Big Mac.

Ah, satisfied.

concordtom said:

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...He dies penniless under a freeway overpass begging for a Big Mac. ...Ah, satisfied.

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I prefer he die getting a foot long at Leavenworth or Rikers.

You guys are funny. The only proof of Russian collusion to influence the election so far is that paid for by Clinton via a British spy. There's also proof of Clinton lackies colluding with Obama DOJ to advance a so far false narrative. And our lovely DOJ/FBI likley breakng the law to protect HRC's email illegalities. And we've got the high probability that the Obama DOJ was spying on a political opponent's campaign, something that will make Watergate look like child's play. Toss in a **** load of DOJ/FBI lying, obstructing, covering up. But yeah, Trump is the problem.

Yeah - the FBI is LOADED with lefty libruls who hate Murica and love Russia....

Quit letting Faux News spoon feed all of their false stories and misleading headlines. You are better than that (or should be).

It's not often that both Presidential candidates are under FBI investigation. They did what they always do which is to fu$k things up in a highly prejudicial way. The demise of the FBI would be a good thing. Let's hope Trump drains that fetid swamp

tequila4kapp said:

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You guys are funny. The only proof of Russian collusion to influence the election so far is that paid for by Clinton via a British spy. There's also proof of Clinton lackies colluding with Obama DOJ to advance a so far false narrative. And our lovely DOJ/FBI likley breakng the law to protect HRC's email illegalities. And we've got the high probability that the Obama DOJ was spying on a political opponent's campaign, something that will make Watergate look like child's play. Toss in a **** load of DOJ/FBI lying, obstructing, covering up. But yeah, Trump is the problem.

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/\
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|

All in on the kool aid. Completely blind to reliable reporting.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/there-is-so-much-evidence-of-trumps-collusion-with-russia.html

tequila4kapp said:

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You guys are funny. The only proof of Russian collusion to influence the election so far is that paid for by Clinton via a British spy. There's also proof of Clinton lackies colluding with Obama DOJ to advance a so far false narrative. And our lovely DOJ/FBI likley breakng the law to protect HRC's email illegalities. And we've got the high probability that the Obama DOJ was spying on a political opponent's campaign, something that will make Watergate look like child's play. Toss in a **** load of DOJ/FBI lying, obstructing, covering up. But yeah, Trump is the problem.

---

One thing is true of all major political scandals: What we know in the moment is but a tiny, obscured, partial view of the full story later revealed by investigators.

That's what makes the Trump-Russia drama all the more remarkable.
Forget all we don't know. The known facts that even Trump's closest friends don't deny tell a damning tale that would sink most leaders.
Here's a guide that Jim VandeHei and I put together to the known knowns of Russia:

We know Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chair, has been indicted on 32 counts, includingconspiracy and money laundering. We know he made millions off shady Russians and changed the Republican platform to the benefit of Russia.

We know that the U.S. intelligence community concluded, in a report released in January 2017, that Russian President Vladimir Putin "ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election," to "denigrate" Hillary Clinton and with "a clear preference for ... Trump."

We know that in May 2016, Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos told an Australian diplomat Russia had political dirt on Hillary. "About three weeks earlier," according to the N.Y. Times, "Papadopoulos had been told that Moscow had thousands of emails that would embarrass Mrs. Clinton."

We know that in June 2016, Trump's closest aides and family members met at Trump Tower with a shady group or Russians who claimed to have dirt on Hillary. The meeting was billed as"part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."

We know the Russian lawyer who helped set it up concealedher close ties to Putin government.

We know that in July 2016, Trump said: ""Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 [Hillary] emails that are missing," and urged their publication.
We know that on Air Force One a year later, Trump helped his son, Don Jr., prepare a misleading statement about the meeting. We know top aides freaked out about this.

We know Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting.

We know Michael Flynn, former national security adviser and close campaign aide, lied to Vice President Pence and FBI about his Russia-related chats. We know he's now cooperating with special counsel Robert Mueller. We know Trump initially tried to protect Flynn with loyalty and fervency rarely shown by Trump to others.

We know that during the transition, Jared Kushner spoke with the Russian ambassador "about establishing a secret communications channel between the Trump transition team and Moscow."

We know Kushner omitted previous contacts with Russians on his disclosure forms.

We know Trump initially liedabout why he fired James Comey, later admitting he was canned because of the "Russia thing."

We know Michael Cohen was a close adviser and lawyer, the fixer and secret-keeper. We know Trump seethed when the FBI raided Cohen's office.

We know that in January 2016, just before Republicans began voting, Michael Cohen tried to restart a Trump Tower project in Moscow.

We know Mueller questioned a Russian oligarch who made payments to Cohen who used the money to pay off a porn star who allegedly had an affair with Trump.

We know that oligarch was a bad enough dude that the Trump administration sanctioned him.

Be smart: The undisputed known knowns about Trump, Russia and his associates are damning and possibly actionable. But the known unknowns of how much more Robert Mueller knows that is publicly unknown is what spooks Trump allies most.

Remember: No one in the media saw Mueller's indictments of Russian oligarchs coming until the second they were announced, and no one knew until this week that Mueller's team questioned AT&T five months ago about its payments to Cohen.
Mueller has every incentiveto keep the public and Trump himself in suspense. Axios

All of tequila4kapp's sources are just weeks away from being all-in on the Uranium One non-scandal

They are all several months away from being all-in on the Hillary email non-scandal

They are all a few years away from being all-in on the Benghazi non-scandal

They are all a couple decades away from being all-in on the Whitewater non-scandal

And folks like tequila4kapp just eat and eat and eat from that trough of lies and crap.

tequila4kapp said:

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You guys are funny. The only proof of Russian collusion to influence the election so far is that paid for by Clinton via a British spy. There's also proof of Clinton lackies colluding with Obama DOJ to advance a so far false narrative. And our lovely DOJ/FBI likley breakng the law to protect HRC's email illegalities. And we've got the high probability that the Obama DOJ was spying on a political opponent's campaign, something that will make Watergate look like child's play. Toss in a **** load of DOJ/FBI lying, obstructing, covering up. But yeah, Trump is the problem.

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Riddle me this. The Department of Justice is apart of Trump's Justice Department, and the people Trump put in place established the special council, what does it tell you about Trump that his own people believe there is a credible case to be 13 indictments? Robert Mueller and James Comey are both Republicans so why is it a Democratic conspiracy when they investigate Trump? Why is it a Democratic conspiracy if one of Trump's people George Papadapolous was bragging to an Australian diplomat about Russian connections? Why is it a Democratic conspiracy when Trump's people (one of whom has been federally indicted) participated in a meeting with Russian nationals that they didn't tell people about? So basically, how the hell is this a democratic conspiracy?

tequila4kapp said:

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You guys are funny. The only proof of Russian collusion to influence the election so far is that paid for by Clinton via a British spy. There's also proof of Clinton lackies colluding with Obama DOJ to advance a so far false narrative. And our lovely DOJ/FBI likley breakng the law to protect HRC's email illegalities. And we've got the high probability that the Obama DOJ was spying on a political opponent's campaign, something that will make Watergate look like child's play. Toss in a **** load of DOJ/FBI lying, obstructing, covering up. But yeah, Trump is the problem.

---

Can I ask you, do you sincerely believe this? Is this a little bit of an act or just trying to needle people on the board? Or do you actually believe what you wrote?

The indictments and long list of suspicious activity and payoffs and indications of many future criminal actions is all untrue?

Have you read the summaries of the case--and just don't believe what they say, or have you just not read information you disagree with?

Lads, back up the fleet of evidence dump trucks:

https://investigaterussia.org/timelines/everything-we-know-about-russia-and-president-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/08/donald-trump-russia-investigation-key-questions-latest-news-collusion-timeline?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

tequila4kapp said:

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You guys are funny. The only proof of Russian collusion to influence the election so far is that paid for by Clinton via a British spy. There's also proof of Clinton lackies colluding with Obama DOJ to advance a so far false narrative. And our lovely DOJ/FBI likley breakng the law to protect HRC's email illegalities. And we've got the high probability that the Obama DOJ was spying on a political opponent's campaign, something that will make Watergate look like child's play. Toss in a **** load of DOJ/FBI lying, obstructing, covering up. But yeah, Trump is the problem.

---

Whatever you're on...please order 33 pounds of it for Dotard Donnie and all his Nazi pals, then we'll call in all the FBI liburals to force feed them at Gitmo. Unless you recommend a suppository.

bearister said:

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concordtom said:

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...He dies penniless under a freeway overpass begging for a Big Mac. ...Ah, satisfied.

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I prefer he die getting a foot long at Leavenworth or Rikers.

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blungld said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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You guys are funny. The only proof of Russian collusion to influence the election so far is that paid for by Clinton via a British spy. There's also proof of Clinton lackies colluding with Obama DOJ to advance a so far false narrative. And our lovely DOJ/FBI likley breakng the law to protect HRC's email illegalities. And we've got the high probability that the Obama DOJ was spying on a political opponent's campaign, something that will make Watergate look like child's play. Toss in a **** load of DOJ/FBI lying, obstructing, covering up. But yeah, Trump is the problem.

---

Can I ask you, do you sincerely believe this? Is this a little bit of an act or just trying to needle people on the board? Or do you actually believe what you wrote?

The indictments and long list of suspicious activity and payoffs and indications of many future criminal actions is all untrue?

Have you read the summaries of the case--and just don't believe what they say, or have you just not read information you disagree with?

---

I am seriously curious if you have not read actual summaries of the investigation and timeline, or if you don't believe the summaries of the investigation and timeline.

tequila4kapp said:

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You guys are funny.
But yeah, Trump is the problem.

---

Thanks.
I hate him so much it is laughable, I agree!

I decided, for fun, to listen to Rush Limbaugh on the radio today. He was making so many misleading, crazy assertions. I was thinking about people I know who support trump and believe in the deep state nonsense, and trying to understand how they could mentally lap up the bs. It was not about discussing truth. It was about drawing out a feeling of anger and indignance. I started answering him, "no, you cannot say that, you don't know that, that's not true." Fortunately, i arrived home before this went on for long. But it did make me shake my head in wonder.

I used to listen to him when I lived in DC decades ago. He was entertaining to listen to. Was I unaware of the fact that he throws out non-truths? Or has he changed?

I agree with you: Trump IS the problem!

Forget about the Russian stuff, or any laws broken. He's plain and simple the biggest asswhole of a person I have ever observed. Out and out murderers are the only worse folks, and I wouldn't put that past him either.
Narcissistic hoebag scumbag.

tRump will surpass Pete Rose's hits record by the end of the year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/05/01/president-trump-has-made-3001-false-or-misleading-claims-so-far/

Definition of intentionally lying? Or is he just fomenting chaos and tearing down society?

I don't know how people who voted for him can look the other way. Shame shame shame.

Read a Time Mag analysis. Until now the Dems were not talking about Russia or Trump, in general or campaigning. However that might be changing quickly because Trump is 24/7 about how it's a witch hunt and it's dominating the news cycle. Well aparently most of the public gets his attacks are defensive and he looks guilty and most believe the investigation is warranted and the question of collusion is no longer if, it's how. People who back Trump, they're a lost cause. So the Dems might open it up after Memorial Day.

This article is something I have been looking for. It is quite excellent. It makes me feel like I am back in school:


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/23/us/politics/trump-mueller-russia.html

That video was well designed, clear and concise.