Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

This reminds me of giant deflated Oski for some reason.

TandemBear said:

---

Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

OdontoBear66 said:

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TandemBear said:

---

.

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Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes

All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

If confederate statues were really about history, I'd agree...keep them up and use them as a teaching tool. However I never saw a big bronze statue of the confederarcy in a classroom or text book. Given the sheer number (thousands and thousands) of statues and memorials to the confederacy, and the "cultural" habits of flying the stars and bars...it's about something else.

Confederate Statues Aren't About History

Quote:

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They serve to valorize white violence that colors America's racist past and present.

---

Furthermore, if you're really into Civil War history, confederate statues...one has to wonder why there's very few or no statues of General James Longstreet in all of the South. The reason seems after the Civil War, he was pro-reconstruction and moving forward and thus the sons, daughters and fans of the confederacy tried to erase him from Southern history, despite being R.E. Lee's right hand man. Logically if the confederates made an effort to erase Longstreet from history...then one must ask why they put up so many statues and memorials and still fly the confederate flag.

I can only surmise it's not about history. It's about intimidation and trying to hold on to the past despite it being brutally inhumane with a legacy of violence still alive today.

Just have the smithsonian open a civil war museum and have all the monuments shipped there.

Then have the museum decide which monuments should be displayed and which should go to storage.

And those monuments that are displayed, the museum can put the monuments "in context" explaining such things as the Jim Crow movement and telling the monuments story from creation to why it was taken down.

We as Americans can then have a more enlightened discussion about what these monuments mean.

Yes I know there's the question of who are these curators who get to make these decisions and who get to create the monument's narrative. But this is a good compromise, yes?

Btw I still can't decide if I liked Tom berenger more in Major League or as general Longstreet in Gettysburg

Excellent idea.

If it was actually about history and learning from our mistakes, the South would be blanketed with statues and monuments to black slaves, not monuments idolizing those that fought to keep them as such.

But somehow that side of the equation is not part of the culture that people who romanticize the confederacy and its statues and flag seem to be to interested in. Why? Because it's not about history or learning from the past. If it were, at the very least, they would not be portrayed as heroes. And yet...

Topple them all. I threw away all of my kids participation trophies a couple years ago. No one missed them.

UCBerkGrad said:

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Topple them all. I threw away all of my kids participation trophies a couple years ago. No one missed them.

---

But if you throw away all their NOT FIRST PLACE trophies, won't you erase all the lessons of not winning?

socaliganbear said:

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UCBerkGrad said:

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Topple them all. I threw away all of my kids participation trophies a couple years ago. No one missed them.

---

But if you throw away all their NOT FIRST PLACE trophies, won't you erase all the lessons of not winning?

---

I think they understand they didn't win....don't need a trophy to remind them.

OdontoBear66 said:

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TandemBear said:

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Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

We should also build a statue of Osama bin Laden to show the error of their ways. He's also a part of our history. It would be an important historical reminder of the horror of terrorism. I propose they build it near the World Trade Center site. Osama bin Laden shouldn't be erased from the history of our country. We should support free speech!

UCBerkGrad said:

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Topple them all. I threw away all of my kids participation trophies a couple years ago. No one missed them.

---

Your wife let you get away with that? The only way I can get my lovely spouse to part with anything from the kids is when I get them (ages 30 and 27) to come over and literally throw the stuff away themselves.

socaliganbear said:

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If it was actually about history and learning from our mistakes, the South would be blanketed with statues and monuments to black slaves, not monuments idolizing those that fought to keep them as such.

But somehow that side of the equation is not part of the culture that people who romanticize the confederacy and its statues and flag seem to be to interested in. Why? Because it's not about history or learning from the past. If it were, at the very least, they would not be portrayed as heroes. And yet...

---

Thank you. Well said.

OdontoBear66 said:

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TandemBear said:

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Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

Is there not a difference between acknowledging a racist past and commemorating a racist past?

ColoradoBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

TandemBear said:

---

Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

Is there not a difference between acknowledging a racist past and commemorating a racist past?

---

Not when you're using the argument in bad faith.

ColoradoBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

TandemBear said:

---

Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

Is there not a difference between acknowledging a racist past and commemorating a racist past?

---

Eh.... leave it up.

OdontoBear66 said:

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TandemBear said:

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Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

Since they are there to learn the lessons of history and not to honor the men portrayed, you are confident then that we can have prominent markers attached to each one discussing the person' abandoning their country in a fight to continue the right to subjugate 3.9 million people who were still enslaved in 1860. You don't think there will be any problem discussing the rebels murdering 360,000 American soldiers. It will be easy to make alterations that make it clear that the message of the monument is not to honor the individual, but to decry their actions. We can have an unambiguous message to Black Americans that the monuments will continue to stand not as a threat of intimidation to them, as was the purpose of erecting many of them, but as a promise that we will never forget the horrific treatment of their ancestors.

That won't be a problem, right? Because most people fighting to keep those statues want them there so we don't forget history, not because they associate them with Southern pride.

By the way, I don't support mobs tearing them down. Do it democratically. But they should come down.

By the way #2. I find it ironic that you try to equate previous poster with Antifa. A pathetic little group of people that break windows and occasionally get in shoving matches. While you support the commemoration of a rebel group that killed 360,000 American soldiers. I don't want to be associated with either group, but between the Confederacy and Antifa, I'll take Antifa.

OaktownBear said:

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By the way #2. I find it ironic that you try to equate previous poster with Antifa. A pathetic little group of people that break windows and occasionally get in shoving matches. While you support the commemoration of a rebel group that killed 360,000 American soldiers. I don't want to be associated with either group, but between the Confederacy and Antifa, I'll take Antifa.

---

I think most Americans would consider themselves Anti-facist

"Do you believe America should be under facist rule?" Not many would answer yes.

The current Antifa movement is really just a bunch of anarchists who serve no purpose that to create chaos and disruption. I'm with you, if my choice is between "Antifa" vs a group of racist MFers, I will side with Antifa.....otherwise they can both disappear.

ColoradoBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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TandemBear said:

---

Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

Is there not a difference between acknowledging a racist past and commemorating a racist past?

---

Are these statues not the largest participation trophies the country has ever seen? If I remember, they came in second place in a two team contest. Usually we don't build statues for losers. I wonder if they served orange slices at Appomattox.

OaktownBear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

TandemBear said:

---

Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

---

Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

---

Is there not a difference between acknowledging a racist past and commemorating a racist past?

---

Are these statues not the largest participation trophies the country has ever seen? If I remember, they came in second place in a two team contest. Usually we don't build statues for losers. I wonder if they served orange slices at Appomattox.

---

The venn diagram of folks who consider themselves 1) real patriots, 2) decry participation trophy culture 3) idolize confederate symbology, is a damn near perfect circle of irony.

It was erected by the Daughters of the Confederacy to honor the UNC students who lost their lives fighting for their State in the Civil War. It is seen as a symbol of peace since the statute features an empty cartrage belt.

Others now view it as a homage to White Supremacy.

Vandals tore it down so I guess they "won" (kind of like the Taliban won when they destroyed those ancient Buddist statutes).

In any event, it is complicated. My guess is that it will be restored after it is repaired.

Dlc83 said:

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It was erected by the Daughters of the Confederacy to honor the UNC students who lost their lives fighting for their State in the Civil War. It is seen as a symbol of peace since the statute features an empty cartrage belt.

Others now view it as a homage to White Supremacy.

Vandals tore it down so I guess they "won" (kind of like the Taliban won when they destroyed those ancient Buddist statutes).

In any event, it is complicated. My guess is that it will be restored after it is repaired.

---

I like this reply. This guy doesn't try to bs around some in bad faith argument that confederate statues are about learning from our mistakes. No. They never were. They're about honoring treason and those brave enough to commit it in the name of their State....'s right to own other human beings.

There's a lot of bad sh*t that we've done in our history. I just hope that we can distinguish between honoring the bad and learning from it. They are not analogous.

Dlc83 said:

---

It was erected by the Daughters of the Confederacy to honor the UNC students who lost their lives fighting for their State in the Civil War. It is seen as a symbol of peace since the statute features an empty cartrage belt.

Others now view it as a homage to White Supremacy.

Vandals tore it down so I guess they "won" (kind of like the Taliban won when they destroyed those ancient Buddist statutes).

In any event, it is complicated. My guess is that it will be restored after it is repaired.

---

Dlc83 would also have no problem with Colorado State erecting a statue to alum Anwar al-Awlaki.

Dlc83 said:

---

It was erected by the Daughters of the Confederacy to honor the UNC students who lost their lives fighting for their State in the Civil War. It is seen as a symbol of peace since the statute features an empty cartrage belt.

Others now view it as a homage to White Supremacy.

Vandals tore it down so I guess they "won" (kind of like the Taliban won when they destroyed those ancient Buddist statutes).

In any event, it is complicated. My guess is that it will be restored after it is repaired.

---

The SCULPTOR who was not a southerner put the empty cartridge belt in there. You have a tough time arguing that it only later was viewed as an homage to White Supremacy when the dedication speech featured these gems:

"The present generation... scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war... their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South"

and

"One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds because she had maligned and insulted a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison."

Okaydo's post just above has a more lengthy excerpt. It is pretty clear on the date of dedication that at least the man who dedicated the statue thought it was an homage to White Supremacy.

It is actually not complicated. I can acknowledge that the soldiers who fought for the South bravely sacrificed for what they thought was right. But what they thought was right was grievously wrong and should no longer be honored. History is filled with men who bravely died for horrific causes. And all the while, we have comparatively few statues honoring the slaves who were the real victims (and the few that exist tend to be vandalized and stolen without national news coverage).

Dlc83 said:

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Vandals tore it down so I guess they "won" (kind of like the Taliban won when they destroyed those ancient Buddist statutes).

---

Yes I'm sure that during the dedication of Buddhist statues, speakers often revel in the glory of the "Anglo-Saxon" race and brag about horse-whipping uppity black women in front of troops as Julian Carr did for Silent Sam. Exactly the same.

----------------------------------
From the dedication by Julian Carr for the Silent Sam statue (in 1913 not the 1860s):

"The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South When "the bottom rail was on top" all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States Praise God.

I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head."
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Agree with OTB, taking down such statues should happen democratically, not by force. But it's much more disgusting that a majority of locals would not have already collectively voted to remove the Silent Sam statue long ago than it is that a few people took it down by force just now.

Ideally those statues would be taken down democratically...but I think that's underestimating the South's resentment, hate and durability on the issue of the Civil War and slavery.

Look if the dedication including remembrances of brutal violence (as mentioned above)...then voting it down in the South isn't likely. Heck have you heard what the Georgia GOP are doing...they're trying to suppress the African American vote by shutting down polling stations in predominantly black counties. EARTH to America...it's 2018 for god sake.

This is what voting those statues out is up against...and there's thousand upon thousands of these statues and monuments. For generational peace and for society to move forward, those types of statues should be banned and our-lawed just like Germany did with Nazi crap.

I support taking those down by the people and by force. Voting simply will not get the job done. Meanwhile the culture of hate survives in the South.

For god fccking sake, we're talking statues, pieces of metal...not human beings.

Another Bear said:

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Ideally those statues would be taken down democratically...but I think that's underestimating the South's resentment, hate and durability on the issue of the Civil War and slavery.

Look if the dedication including remembrances of brutal violence (as mentioned above)...then voting it down in the South isn't likely. Heck have you heard what the Georgia GOP are doing...they're trying to suppress the African American vote by shutting down polling stations in predominantly black counties. EARTH to America...it's 2018 for god sake.

This is what voting those statues out is up against...and there's thousand upon thousands of these statues and monuments. For generational peace and for society to move forward, those types of statues should be banned and our-lawed just like Germany did with Nazi crap.

I support taking those down by the people and by force. Voting simply will not get the job done. Meanwhile the culture of hate survives in the South.

For god fccking sake, we're talking statues, pieces of metal...not human beings.

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My view of it is it's different if you are talking voting rights that actually impact people's rights tangibly. These are statues. If they won't vote to take them down, it says more about them than anything. It is like when Arizona used every ridiculous excuse not to adopt MLK day when everyone else had. They just looked like idiots.

OaktownBear said:

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Another Bear said:

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Ideally those statues would be taken down democratically...but I think that's underestimating the South's resentment, hate and durability on the issue of the Civil War and slavery.

Look if the dedication including remembrances of brutal violence (as mentioned above)...then voting it down in the South isn't likely. Heck have you heard what the Georgia GOP are doing...they're trying to suppress the African American vote by shutting down polling stations in predominantly black counties. EARTH to America...it's 2018 for god sake.

This is what voting those statues out is up against...and there's thousand upon thousands of these statues and monuments. For generational peace and for society to move forward, those types of statues should be banned and our-lawed just like Germany did with Nazi crap.

I support taking those down by the people and by force. Voting simply will not get the job done. Meanwhile the culture of hate survives in the South.

For god fccking sake, we're talking statues, pieces of metal...not human beings.

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My view of it is it's different if you are talking voting rights that actually impact people's rights tangibly. These are statues. If they won't vote to take them down, it says more about them than anything. It is like when Arizona used every ridiculous excuse not to adopt MLK day when everyone else had. They just looked like idiots.

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I was very young at the time, but I still remember the team wearing mlk patches on their jerseys for the copper bowl. I think the naacp also denounced us for going. But hey man, we hadn't been to a bowl in how long?

Why would you need a vote to take them down? I highly doubt they voted to put them up. Even if they did, guessing a large portion of the population wasn't allowed to vote.

TandemBear said:

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Good. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. An embarrassment.

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Siting a movie as proof for anything, much less for how the entire South views slavery, is embarrassing.

OdontoBear66 said:

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TandemBear said:

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Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

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Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

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Exactly. Using TandemBear's logic, we should tear down the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.

Bear19 said:

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TandemBear said:

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Good. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. An embarrassment.

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Siting a movie as proof for anything, much less for how the entire South views slavery, is embarrassing.

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speaking of embarrassing...

Golden One said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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TandemBear said:

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Good. Tear it out and be rid of it. The south, or former Confederate states, need to divest themselves from their horrible history. So unbelievable that people still want to fly that flag. Rewatching "Django Unchained" recently really drove home the point that the south still celebrates this reprehensible part of their history. It was utter brutality on all levels. That we could have treated fellow humans the way we did then. But now to still try to celebrate it? Or equally worse, lie about what's being celebrated under a VERY thin racist veil?

Can you imagine if a large swath of southern Germany (why is it always the south?) flew and celebrated the Nazi flag? Said it wasn't the ethnic cleansing they're celebrating, but instead "German punctuality and perfectionism," or "good Bavarian beer," or some such other nonsense? We'd bash them mercilessly and they'd NEVER be allowed to escape their Nazi past. Their humming economy wouldn't be what it is today if a third of their country openly embraced national socialism.

Instead, they teach the horrors of the past so that people do not forget. The only Nazi flags and remnants of that time are found in museums and historic places kept in place so that it cannot be forgotten. So that it can't be erased from history so the lunatic holocaust deniers can have any sort of additional evidence to support their insane agenda.

But here in the US, for some reason, people still harken back to a "better time when you could enslave others and profit off their labor for free!" And raping a few of the women every now and again when the wife wasn't putting out was a nice side benefit. Crude, I know. But it's true, dammit!

Topple all of the statues. Burn all of the flags. Enough of this.

An embarrassment.

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Dumb sh*t. Erase it and you lose the lesson of its errors. Simple as that. My family has always been of northern persuasion and the errors of slavery, and the Confederacy. But erase it? No. Learn from its horrors? Yes.
All I know is I went to Cal in the era of free speech, and when it is such, the evil will be exposed. What you espouse is an evil unto itself that relates not even to the subject in question. Embarrassing. Did you go to Cal? Or did you just sign up for Antifa of late?

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Exactly. Using TandemBear's logic, we should tear down the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.

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No, the vast majority of people who want these Civil War monuments have no problem putting them in a museum, where they can be put in the proper context, as ducky23 put it....

Again, would it be right to put on display a public statue of Osama bin Laden in Manhattan? If such a statue were to be erected for the 20th anniversary of 9/11, would tearing it down be the same as destroying history?

Why aren't there statues of Hitler in Europe?

Putting these statues in the public square is celebrating white supremacy. It's taunting. Putting them in a museum is not.