Genuinely curious. You have respect for the president but think he can be boorish and indelicate. Got that. But in terms of his constant lying (not spinning, lying), is that something that in any other facet of your life you would tolerate in a person?

Bad question, because nobody lies as much as DT.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Genuinely curious. You have respect for the president but think he can be boorish and indelicate. Got that. But in terms of his constant lying (not spinning, lying), is that something that in any other facet of your life you would tolerate in a person?

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You have to understand something.

Logic does not matter to a Trump supporter. Truth does not matter to a Trump supporter. All that matters is that he hates the people they hate.

That's it.

I guess I'm a GOPer. I don't know any that I respect less than DT.

kelly09 said:

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I guess I'm a GOPer. I don't know any that I respect less than DT.

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You do realize he is the leader of your party, the most widely and uniformly supported(by Republicans) politician in a generation, and the absolute embodiment of modern republican ideals, right? You don't get to pretend being republican in this time is any different than being 100% supportive of Trump, because that is what republican now means. Hateful, bigoted, petty, corrupt, stupid, deceitful, selfish. Those are the main descriptors of the leader of the party and the party itself. But again he is just the party, as it has been for decades now, personified.

offshorebear said:

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kelly09 said:

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I guess I'm a GOPer. I don't know any that I respect less than DT.

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You do realize he is the leader of your party, the most widely and uniformly supported(by Republicans) politician in a generation, and the absolute embodiment of modern republican ideals, right? You don't get to pretend being republican in this time is any different than being 100% supportive of Trump, because that is what republican now means. Hateful, bigoted, petty, corrupt, stupid, deceitful, selfish. Those are the main descriptors of the leader of the party and the party itself. But again he is just the party, as it has been for decades now, personified.

---

So I would support far left Dems? F... that!

The scary part of Trump lying is it indicates he's living in his own world and reality, and not a very stable reality. Not a bad thing for a trust funder, p&ssy grabbing, pisspoor businessman...but as POTUS, it's totally fccked up. Why? Because democracy functions best with truths and transparency. As POTUS Trump tells 11 mis-truths or lies daily. He's a 1,000 already.

As for rationality...doesn't apply to cult members, the poorly informed and under-educated.

Yogi.....I would think you probably meant to include

All that matters is that he hates the people they hate.OR in some cases, pretends to hate the people they hate.

BEARUPINDC said:

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Yogi.....I would think you probably meant to include

All that matters is that he hates the people they hate.OR in some cases, pretends to hate the people they hate.

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At this point, I'm not sure anyone (on the left, right, or middle) cares what he actually believes when he's alone with his conscience. And why would they?

B.A. Bearacus said:

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BEARUPINDC said:

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Yogi.....I would think you probably meant to include

All that matters is that he hates the people they hate.OR in some cases, pretends to hate the people they hate.

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At this point, I'm not sure anyone (on the left, right, or middle) cares what he actually believes when he's alone with his conscience. And why would they?

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.B.A,,

You have to convince that he believes in anything.....other than building up his ego.
Conscience?????? To what are you referring? That's a foreign concept when talking about DT.

kelly09 said:

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offshorebear said:

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kelly09 said:

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I guess I'm a GOPer. I don't know any that I respect less than DT.

---

You do realize he is the leader of your party, the most widely and uniformly supported(by Republicans) politician in a generation, and the absolute embodiment of modern republican ideals, right? You don't get to pretend being republican in this time is any different than being 100% supportive of Trump, because that is what republican now means. Hateful, bigoted, petty, corrupt, stupid, deceitful, selfish. Those are the main descriptors of the leader of the party and the party itself. But again he is just the party, as it has been for decades now, personified.

---

So I would support far left Dems? F... that!

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And that's why you don't get to claim Trump hate. You hated him so much that you voted for him for president.

kelly09 said:

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I guess I'm a GOPer. I don't know any that I respect less than DT.

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And yet I do believe I've read on here that you defend him?
My god, what is the matter with THAT?!!?

Yogi Bear said:

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kelly09 said:

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offshorebear said:

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kelly09 said:

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I guess I'm a GOPer. I don't know any that I respect less than DT.

---

You do realize he is the leader of your party, the most widely and uniformly supported(by Republicans) politician in a generation, and the absolute embodiment of modern republican ideals, right? You don't get to pretend being republican in this time is any different than being 100% supportive of Trump, because that is what republican now means. Hateful, bigoted, petty, corrupt, stupid, deceitful, selfish. Those are the main descriptors of the leader of the party and the party itself. But again he is just the party, as it has been for decades now, personified.

---

So I would support far left Dems? F... that!

---

And that's why you don't get to claim Trump hate. You hated him so much that you voted for him for president.

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Yhe Hell I did!!!

kelly09 said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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kelly09 said:

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offshorebear said:

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kelly09 said:

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I guess I'm a GOPer. I don't know any that I respect less than DT.

---

You do realize he is the leader of your party, the most widely and uniformly supported(by Republicans) politician in a generation, and the absolute embodiment of modern republican ideals, right? You don't get to pretend being republican in this time is any different than being 100% supportive of Trump, because that is what republican now means. Hateful, bigoted, petty, corrupt, stupid, deceitful, selfish. Those are the main descriptors of the leader of the party and the party itself. But again he is just the party, as it has been for decades now, personified.

---

So I would support far left Dems? F... that!

---

And that's why you don't get to claim Trump hate. You hated him so much that you voted for him for president.

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Yhe Hell I did!!!

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So you voted for Hillary in the general when it was Hillary vs Trump?

Bull**** you did.

Voted for neither. My protest vote was Jill Stein. Trump an Hillary are creeps, as are you Yogi.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Genuinely curious. You have respect for the president but think he can be boorish and indelicate. Got that. But in terms of his constant lying (not spinning, lying), is that something that in any other facet of your life you would tolerate in a person?

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Yours and everybody else's TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) is palpable. The obvious symptom is incessant need for approval and affirmation like infants

Quote:

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You have to understand something.

Logic does not matter to a Trump supporter. Truth does not matter to a Trump supporter. All that matters is that he hates the people they hate.

That's it.

---

Can't you guys understand!!! Trump is the worst, therefore anybody who voted for him is the worst! Tell me I'm right tell me I'm right pleeeeeeeeze! My sense of self as a better person than others demands it!

But to answer the lame question, liberal ideologues on MSM and internet message boards (and I'm a 'liberal'). It's close, but I think they take the cake.

Qualities of who again?

"The obvious symptom is incessant need for approval and affirmation like infants."

Those who are qualified to diagnose "TDS": what condition(s), if any, other than baldness, does the president suffer from?

How come Leftists errrr "liberals" don't support Trump's immigration reform.

Liberals used to support strict immigration laws because liberals used to try to be the champions of the poor and working class, and they also understood basic economic principles about importing cheap labor, to speak nothing of its social and cultural impacts.

But in recent memory Democrats doubled down, obscured the realities of illegal immigration in public discourse and found the political equity was to be gained from placating minorities under banners of "anti-racism" and "compassion".

Immigration probably has the most support in both parties in the legislature, but it's the most radioactive and a net negative from a political equity standpoint. I'd venture a guess 99% of politicians in both parties, in private, have an issue with a theoretical "wall" and a meritocratic immigration policy, they simply lack the political courage to stand behind it. "Diversity" of immutable characteristics is a magic word with profound political and social equity that actually has no meaning or inherent moral value.

As some Republican tweeted, Trump is mentally unhealthy. The sycophants who can't acknowledge his political and mental problems are not to be taken seriously. The critics of Trump are so often ideologues operating in bad faith (always harping on real and perceived character attacks rather than policy is sign) that reinforces the partisan, cheerleading mentaility. Those that support some of his policies and are not falling on the sword for Trump's character flaws find TDS to be the death of mainstream leftist ideology. The irony is the TDS that ensued the election was emblematic of the political and cultural ideologies that spawned an unhealthy identity crisis, to some degree, on the right that helped elect a Bafoon who used 1-2 issues ignored by both parties that resonated with many folks, some of them voted for Obama who I guess became racist overnight.

There are like 3 things I appreciate about Trump:

1) Addressing immigration in public discourse; long ignored and paid lip service to by both parties for political safety
2) His unabashed, absolute disdain for MSM whose goals aren't just to report but to destroy him. Seeing him punk CNN both on twitter and to their faces is pure comedy. I loved when Obama got a little gangster on the media for trolling him with stupid, disingenuous questions and statements.
3) Not placating the Social Justice Warriors and identity politics of mainstream political culture in public discourse

That's not a lot. I'd rather have Obama for a 3rd term.

The Secret Service Spoke Out About Trump Letting Spies Into Mar-a-Lago So Trump Fired The Director

Sheer craziness. Trump opens up Mar-a-Lago to all comers and a spy shows up. Can't make this sh*t up.

kelly09 said:

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Voted for neither. My protest vote was Jill Stein. Trump an Hillary are creeps, as are you Yogi.

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Things you believe:

https://www.hoover.org/research/new-nihilism

Obama is dumb

We only spent $1 million investigating Hillary's email server, but the Mueller report, which indicted 34 and convicted 6 was a wild goose chase.

Mayor Bloomberg not running is bad because you wanted to vote for him, ignoring that it would assure Trump of re-election (who you claim to have no respect for).

https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2019-2-24-the-greatest-scientific-fraud-of-all-time-part-xxi

https://amgreatness.com/2019/02/23/an-american-epidemic-toxic-imbecility/

No ****ing way do I believe that you voted for Jill Stein and if you did, it wasn't because you agree with anything she stands for. It was because you live in California and knew your vote for president was worthless, so you decided to show everybody what an independent thinker you are, even though every principle you stand for aligns with the Republican Party.

GBear4Life said:

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How come Leftists errrr "liberals" don't support Trump's immigration reform.

Liberals used to support strict immigration laws because liberals used to try to be the champions of the poor and working class, and they also understood basic economic principles about importing cheap labor, to speak nothing of its social and cultural impacts.

---

You realize that the immigrants coming to the border are ALSO poor and working-class people, for the most part, right? There is nothing inconsistent about a liberal arguing in their favor as well. Do you actually pay attention to liberal arguments on things?

And which "reform" should liberals support? The time when he tried to prevent everyone from Muslim-majority countries from entering the United States, even those with green cards and other legal documentation? The time when his administration started taking children away from their parents at the border, with no promise of ever returning them? An expensive "wall" that most experts say would not actually help curb illegal immigration?

I can't believe those hypocritical liberals won't support inhumane and impractical ideas, just because they hate Trump so much!

Immigration is a side show. It's not one of the top issues facing our country and every minute spent discussing it is a distraction from our real problems. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should ignore it entirely, but we are entirely ignoring real issues because Trump thinks it's a "winning" issue for him. Just because it's a pet issue for him doesn't mean we have to pretend like it should be a top priority. I'm much more concerned about healthcare, wasteful military spending and climate change/environmental issues.

Yogi Bear said:

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kelly09 said:

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Voted for neither. My protest vote was Jill Stein. Trump an Hillary are creeps, as are you Yogi.

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Things you believe:

https://www.hoover.org/research/new-nihilism

Obama is dumb

We only spent $1 million investigating Hillary's email server, but the Mueller report, which indicted 34 and convicted 6 was a wild goose chase.

Mayor Bloomberg not running is bad because you wanted to vote for him, ignoring that it would assure Trump of re-election (who you claim to have no respect for).

https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2019-2-24-the-greatest-scientific-fraud-of-all-time-part-xxi

https://amgreatness.com/2019/02/23/an-american-epidemic-toxic-imbecility/

No ****ing way do I believe that you voted for Jill Stein and if you did, it wasn't because you agree with anything she stands for. It was because you live in California and knew your vote for president was worthless, so you decided to show everybody what an independent thinker you are, even though every principle you stand for aligns with the Republican Party.

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You are right Yogster, I can't stand her but I voted for her because my vote doesn't count anyway. BTW if it did I probably still would vote for her against the two charlatans that were running.

Quote:

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You realize that the immigrants coming to the border are ALSO poor and working-class people, for the most part, right? There is nothing inconsistent about a liberal arguing in their favor as well. Do you actually pay attention to liberal arguments on things?

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What's wrong with you? The immigrants coming to the border aren't American citizens; the legal immigrants in the country are. This point of yours makes no sense. It is nowhere in the intellectual history of liberalism to be shills for the foreign poor at the expense of the American working class.

Quote:

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And which "reform" should liberals support? The time when he tried to prevent everyone from Muslim-majority countries from entering the United States, even those with green cards and other legal documentation? The time when his administration started taking children away from their parents at the border, with no promise of ever returning them? An expensive "wall" that most experts say would not actually help curb illegal immigration?

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Would you support a "wall" ? This would actually uncover whether someone is saving face by attacking the "cost".

Quote:

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Immigration is a side show. It's not one of the top issues facing our country and every minute spent discussing it is a distraction from our real problems. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should ignore it entirely, but we are entirely ignoring real issues because Trump thinks it's a "winning" issue for him. Just because it's a pet issue for him doesn't mean we have to pretend like it should be a top priority. I'm much more concerned about healthcare, wasteful military spending and climate change/environmental issues.

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Millions of menial laborers using up both public and private resources is not considerable issue? You say we shouldn't ignore it, so do you acknowledge it's a problem?

It certainly is a winning issue for Trump, I doubt he principally cares about it. But a lot of Americans do. Immigration, especially from 3rd world countries, has considerable social, cultural, and economic impacts on a country and its citizens. More so when the courts guarantee considerable public resources (education, health care) to those immigrants. According to Pew, 40% of Americans support a "wall" (20% of Democrats). Doesn't mean it's a bad or good idea, it just suggests its not a fringe issue. I think there's a lot of anxiety about how to carry it out. The optics of any one immigration reform are strong. There is political and social blowback to doing anything drastic on immigration.

We know what importing low wages does to the existing laboring class. Why do you think it's an issue that isn't big but considerable enough to not be ignored?

GBear4Life said:

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Millions of menial laborers using up both public and private resources is not considerable issue? You say we shouldn't ignore it, so do you acknowledge it's a problem?

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I can't definitively say that the negative would outweigh the positives of illegal immigration. Nativists seem to take the view that it's a zero sum game and any benefit conferred to immigrants hurts this country but it's clearly not true. Immigrants contribute to the country in myriad ways. They pay taxes, help fuel our economy and they contribute to our communities. So in short no I do not acknowledge that it's a problem and no amount of fear-mongering can change reality. This is a crusade by Trump to elevate immigration because most of the other topics are difficult to solve and conceptualize and he is a simpleton. Nevertheless, it captivates his audience and has been key to his scam of a political career. That doesn't mean I have to take it seriously or pretend it's one of the great issues facing our nation.

By the way, it appears you do not differentiate between legal immigration and citizenship of immigrants.

GBear4Life said:

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Quote:

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You realize that the immigrants coming to the border are ALSO poor and working-class people, for the most part, right? There is nothing inconsistent about a liberal arguing in their favor as well. Do you actually pay attention to liberal arguments on things?

---

What's wrong with you? The immigrants coming to the border aren't American citizens; the legal immigrants in the country are. This point of yours makes no sense. It is nowhere in the intellectual history of liberalism to be shills for the foreign poor at the expense of the American working class.

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You seen to take it as a given that allowing more immigrants into the country would be "at the expense of" existing American workers. Most liberals do not. Don't just assert this, prove your case.

Quote:

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Would you support a "wall" ? This would actually uncover whether someone is saving face by attacking the "cost".

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I don't know. Depends a lot on what is offered and what else is in the deal (paths to citizenship for people already here, work programs for necessary seasonal workers, etc.).

I don't think TRUMP has offered anything workable, so that answers your original question of why liberals don't support his position. He's offered nothing but cruel or impractical plans.

Unit2Sucks said:

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This is a crusade by Trump to elevate immigration because most of the other topics are difficult to solve and conceptualize and he is a simpleton.

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Hell, so is immigration. Trump just offers simpleton solutions (and then wonders why everyone else doesn't come around).

Which one of DT's lies about why he can't release his taxes is the one conservatives can live with?

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Which one of DT's lies about why he can't release his taxes is the one conservatives can live with?

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All of them

Trump is fixated on immigration, specifically the border, because of the implicit FEAR factor that his core followers buy about Mexico. He stokes that fear with hate and blame rhetoric. This fear is irrational but the blame game is also important to his base. This is how nationalism looks and works.

Another Bear said:

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Trump is fixated on immigration, specifically the border, because of the implicit FEAR factor that his core followers buy about Mexico. He stokes that fear with hate and blame rhetoric. This fear is irrational but the blame game is also important to his base. This is how nationalism looks and works.

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LMAO. Your TDS is melting your brain. You're just spewing affirmation-seeking rhetoric.

Quote:

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In a survey conducted ahead of last year's midterm elections, three-quarters of registered voters who planned to support the GOP candidate in their congressional district said illegal immigration was a very big problem in the country, versus just 19% among voters who planned to support their Democratic candidate for Congress.

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https://www.people-press.org/2018/10/15/little-partisan-agreement-on-the-pressing-problems-facing-the-u-s/