life sucks, then you die, 2050 edition

6,503 Views | 54 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by dajo9
smh
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/15/worst-case-scenario-2050-climate-crisis-future-we-choose-christiana-figueres-tom-rivett-carnac

terrible terrible stuff, of course, but hardly anyone living in 2020 cares (enuf).

give thanks to Oski if you dint reproduce. just one snip, of many..

Quote:

Food production swings wildly from month to month, season to season, depending on where you live. More people are starving than ever before. Climate zones have shifted, so some new areas have become available for agriculture (Alaska, the Arctic), while others have dried up (Mexico, California). Still others are unstable because of the extreme heat, never mind flooding, wildfire and tornadoes. This makes the food supply in general highly unpredictable. Global trade has slowed as countries seek to hold on to their own resources.. .. ..
new cybers emoticon, blown up..

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warming_stripes
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
wifeisafurd
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smh said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/15/worst-case-scenario-2050-climate-crisis-future-we-choose-christiana-figueres-tom-rivett-carnac

terrible terrible stuff, of course, but hardly anyone living in 2020 cares (enuf).

give thanks to Oski if you dint reproduce. just one snip, of many..


Quote:

Food production swings wildly from month to month, season to season, depending on where you live. More people are starving than ever before. Climate zones have shifted, so some new areas have become available for agriculture (Alaska, the Arctic), while others have dried up (Mexico, California). Still others are unstable because of the extreme heat, never mind flooding, wildfire and tornadoes. This makes the food supply in general highly unpredictable. Global trade has slowed as countries seek to hold on to their own resources.. .. ..




over/under before someone posts a Debbie Downer gif is _______???
smh
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> over/under before someone posts a Debbie Downer gif is _______???

Ohkay, ohKay, i'll start WIAF. but gifs are passe, leading off with bleeding edge youtubey instead, latest of a series released by the guy caressing the ivory..



visualization starts in the late 70s since that's when satellite data became available.
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
bearister
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Our Clown Prince assures us that's a right load of codswallop.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention

“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
smh
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bearister said:

Our Clown Prince assures us that's a right load of codswallop.
"don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.



finally remembered today blocking cal88's handle some years ago.
# streets go both ways
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
Cal88
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smh said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/15/worst-case-scenario-2050-climate-crisis-future-we-choose-christiana-figueres-tom-rivett-carnac

terrible terrible stuff, of course, but hardly anyone living in 2020 cares (enuf).

give thanks to Oski if you dint reproduce. just one snip, of many..

Quote:

Food production swings wildly from month to month, season to season, depending on where you live. More people are starving than ever before. Climate zones have shifted, so some new areas have become available for agriculture (Alaska, the Arctic), while others have dried up (Mexico, California). Still others are unstable because of the extreme heat, never mind flooding, wildfire and tornadoes. This makes the food supply in general highly unpredictable. Global trade has slowed as countries seek to hold on to their own resources.. .. ..


The author is not a scientist, she is a UN policy maker and an anthropologist. This article is pure alarmist unscientific propaganda. You can pull out a lot of articles like these from 30 years ago that claimed that the world would face apocalyptic climate cataclysms today.

I'm just going to debunk the two items you've pulled out. SMH you are like me a Cal STEM grad so you will have no problem following my points, and I welcome your counterpoints as you're a solid poster and a bona fide good guy I've had the pleasure of meeting.

OK, first point: the world is awash in food, even as demand for food has been growing at a fast rate due to (a) population growth and (b) the explosive growth in the middle classes in BRICS and the rest of the developing world. We have already reached peak farmland at the global scale, because yields have been going up steadily, we are getting more wheat, rice, corn out per acre than ever before, on less and less land. Total farmland is peaking now at 5 billion acres.

Quote:

OSLO (Reuters) - The amount of land needed to grow crops worldwide is at a peak, and a geographical area more than twice the size of France will be able to return to its natural state by 2060 as a result of rising yields and slower population growth, a group of experts said on Monday.

Their report, conflicting with United Nations studies that say more cropland will be needed in coming decades to avert hunger and price spikes as the world population rises above 7 billion, said humanity had reached what it called "Peak Farmland".

More crops for use as biofuels and increased meat consumption in emerging economies such as China and India, demanding more cropland to feed livestock, would not offset a fall from the peak driven by improved yields, it calculated.

If the report is accurate, the land freed up from crop farming would be some 10 percent of what is currently in use - equivalent to 2.5 times the size of France, Europe's biggest country bar Russia, or more than all the arable land now utilized in China.

"We believe that humanity has reached Peak Farmland, and that a large net global restoration of land to nature is ready to begin," said Jesse Ausubel, director of the Program for the Human Environment at the Rockefeller University in New York.

"Happily, the cause is not exhaustion of arable land, as many had feared, but rather moderation of population and tastes and ingenuity of farmers," he wrote in a speech about the study he led in the journal Population and Development Review.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crops/peak-farmland-is-here-crop-area-to-diminish-study-idUSBRE8BG0QH20121217

This is what the phenomenon looks like for corn:



Note that there is a parallel phenomenon in consumer goods, for example:



That's the reason we're never going to run out of resources, oil and coal included:


https://hackernoon.com/welcome-to-peak-stuff-e699820c7e9b


But to go back to food production, one of the main reasons yields have been going up so much is that CO2 levels have been going up. CO2 is a very powerful plant fertilizer, greenhouse operators will nearly double their plant yields by pumping CO2 up above 1,000ppm, that's why every greenhouse farmer will do this.





Rising CO2 levels have resulted in what's known as CO2 greening, or the worldwide increase in green cover due to rising CO2 levels:


https://phys.org/news/2013-07-greening-co2.html
As shown on this map, the CO2 greening is most dramatic in arid areas like the African sub-Saharan Sahel and western India and Australia, because plants need fewer stomata for photosynthesis when CO2 is higher, thus they will lose less water in the photosynthesis process. Hence less water is needed to grow plants when CO2 is higher.


Another point that the alarmists ignore when freaking out about crop disasters is that warmer temperatures worldwide will result in bigger crops, especially in the wheat and corn belts. A lot of the wheat production is grown in northern countries like Canada, Russia and Ukraine, those crops are much more vulnerable to cooler weather, especially cold snaps in late Spring and early Summer.

Bottom line: there is absolutely no evidence that we will run out of food in 2050 or that food production will be seriously disrupted in the near future. There has been a steady rise in world food production matching the rise in demand, no food shortages observed, and there is still a lot of land available in regions like Africa or Russia to increase production in case crops fail.

Cal88
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smh said:

> over/under before someone posts a Debbie Downer gif is _______???

Ohkay, ohKay, i'll start WIAF. but gifs are passe, leading off with bleeding edge youtubey instead, latest of a series released by the guy caressing the ivory..




Quick answer: the anchor point here, 1979, was a historic peak for arctic sea ice cover. The 1950s to 1970s were a period of global cooling, which took place after a period of warming in the 1930s-40s, and were followed by a period of warming in the 1980s-2000.



Back in the 1970s, there was a scientific consensus on global cooling, with scientists and policy makers clamoring that a global catastrophe in the form of an ice age was around the corner unless humanity mobilized against global cooling by reducing its use of fossil fuels!...



Dozens more headlines like this here.

There were many periods in the recent past were arctic sea ice cover had receded substantially, so much so that the arctic passage opened up and wooden ships were able to cross it.
chazzed
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Right on cue, Cal88 posts a bunch of "information" to obfuscate the issue. 97% of the climate scientists in the world have done the math and are confident that man-made global warming is upon us. I know which conclusion I'll be placing stock in.
Cal88
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chazzed said:

Right on cue, Cal88 posts a bunch of "information" to obfuscate the issue. 97% of the climate scientists in the world have done the math and are confident that man-made global warming is upon us. I know which conclusion I'll be placing stock in.
If you had (1) the most basic understanding of statistics and (2) the basic ability to think for yourself and not fall for alarmist propaganda like the Guardian's piece that SMH posted, you would understand that the "97% consensus", formulated by Australian blogger/comic book artist John Cook, is an unscientific piece of PR.

'Propaganda': Top MIT climate scientist trashes '97% consensus' claim

Quote:

"It is propaganda," Lindzen, a climatologist at MIT said.. "So all scientists agree it's probably warmer now than it was at the end of the Little Ice Age. Almost all Scientists agree that if you add CO2, you will have some warming. Maybe very little warming."

"But it is propaganda to translate that into it is dangerous and we must reduce CO2," he added.
Lindzen is referring to the often cited statistic among environmentalists and liberal politicians that 97 percent of climate scientists agree human activities are causing the planet to warm. This sort of argument has been around for decades, but recent use of the statistic can be traced to a 2013 report by Australian blogger John Cook.

Cook's paper found of the scientific study "abstracts expressing a position [url=][/url]on [manmade global warming], 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming." But Cook's assertion has been heavily criticized by researchers carefully examining his methodology.
A paper by five leading climatologists published in the journal Science and Education found only 41 out of the 11,944 published climate studies examined in Cook's study explicitly stated mankind has caused most of the warming since 1950 meaning the actual consensus is 0.3 percent.

"It is astonishing that any journal could have published a paper claiming a 97% climate consensus when on the authors' own analysis the true consensus was well below 1%," said Dr. David Legates, a geology professor at the University of Delaware and the study's lead author.

A 2013 study by Andrew Montford of the Global Warming Policy Foundation found that Cook had to cast a wide net to cram scientists into his so-called consensus. To be part of Cook's consensus, a scientific study only needed to agree carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and that human activities have warmed the planet "to some unspecified extent" both of which are uncontroversial points.
"Almost everybody involved in the climate debate, including the majority of sceptics, accepts these propositions, so little can be learned from the Cook et al. paper," wrote Montford. "The extent to which the warming in the last two decades of the twentieth century was man-made and the likely extent of any future warming remain highly contentious scientific issues."
https://www.econlib.org/archives/2014/03/16_not_97_agree.html

http://joannenova.com.au/2013/05/cooks-fallacy-97-consensus-study-is-a-marketing-ploy-some-journalists-will-fall-for/


Cal88
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chazzed said:

Right on cue, Cal88 posts a bunch of "information" to obfuscate the issue. 97% of the climate scientists in the world have done the math and are confident that man-made global warming is upon us. I know which conclusion I'll be placing stock in.
There were two points that were raised by SMH that I've effectively addressed:

1) the notion that global warming is disrupting global food supply, showing that:

(a) Food production has not been affected at all, the production of rice, wheat, corn and soy are at record levels and constantly growing, even as agricultural land use is peaking and set to decrease due to ever-rising agricultural yields

(b) rising CO2 levels have been beneficial to agricultural output and green cover worldwide, especially in arid areas, because CO2 acts as a powerful airborne fertilizer due to its central role in photosynthesis


2) alarmism with regards to arctic sea ice levels is unfounded because it used 1979 as the base rate, when the 1970s were a historical peak in a cooling period. This is an example of anchoring and base rate fallacy cognitive bias.

I didn't go into as much detail on the point (2), but only showed that the 1970s were a period of global cooling, when there was a scientific consensus that the earth climate was cooling, with many scientists calling on a moratorium in human activity to avert an impending ice age.

Which points do you disagree with?

Did you learn something from the information I've posted, all of which supported by data and facts, or are you so emotionally confined by your cultural conditioning as to completely reject all these items that challenge the conventional narrative?
dajo9
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We've had numerous posts on these boards by Cal88 that have been proven to be false.

Cal88, the reason you aren't getting reasoned responses is because you lost your credibility on this topic long ago.
Cal88
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It's not like your C+ in Math16A was going to help you understand all them curves above.

But speaking of losing credibility, and of reasoned responses or lack thereof, here is a recent sample of your remarkable deductive reasoning powers:

Quote:

...88 being a number used by white supremacists as a reference to some of their "precepts". Coincidence? And here we are talking about a poster named Cal88. Coincidence? Take a look at the meaning of the number 88 for white supremacists.

Move along kid.
GBear4Life
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The global warming alarmists are the most tedious people on earth. Yeah, one country is going to solve a global problem.

K.
Cal88
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smh said:

> over/under before someone posts a Debbie Downer gif is _______???

Ohkay, ohKay, i'll start WIAF. but gifs are passe, leading off with bleeding edge youtubey instead, latest of a series released by the guy caressing the ivory..



OK, this is the chart I was looking for in response to SMH's chart above:



You can clearly see how looking at the trend only after 1979 (peak of the cycle) and ignoring earlier data lends itself to alarmist interpretations.

The Arctic passage was open to maritime traffic in the early 1930s, which was a warmer period with Arctic temperatures similar to recent ones. There were a lot of articles from that period speculating that the Arctic ice cover will be gone forever.



Similarly, Arctic ice cover grew steadily in the 1950s, 60s and 70s, when there was a small panic about an impending ice age, as the press clippings linked above demonstrate.

The Arctic region is mostly ocean, so its climate is governed by oceanic patterns, mainly the North Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, there is a very clear direct correlation between AMO and the Arctic ice cover:



It appears that the warming in the Arctic has cycled out, last summer in Greenland has been the coldest on record in the last 30 years, with greater than average snow accumulations on that island.
calpoly
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dajo9 said:

We've had numerous posts on these boards by Cal88 that have been proven to be false.

Cal88, the reason you aren't getting reasoned responses is because you lost your credibility on this topic long ago.
Amen!
calpoly
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Cal88 said:

smh said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/15/worst-case-scenario-2050-climate-crisis-future-we-choose-christiana-figueres-tom-rivett-carnac

terrible terrible stuff, of course, but hardly anyone living in 2020 cares (enuf).

give thanks to Oski if you dint reproduce. just one snip, of many..

Quote:

Food production swings wildly from month to month, season to season, depending on where you live. More people are starving than ever before. Climate zones have shifted, so some new areas have become available for agriculture (Alaska, the Arctic), while others have dried up (Mexico, California). Still others are unstable because of the extreme heat, never mind flooding, wildfire and tornadoes. This makes the food supply in general highly unpredictable. Global trade has slowed as countries seek to hold on to their own resources.. .. ..


The author is not a scientist, she is a UN policy maker and an anthropologist. This article is pure alarmist unscientific propaganda. You can pull out a lot of articles like these from 30 years ago that claimed that the world would face apocalyptic climate cataclysms today.

I'm just going to debunk the two items you've pulled out. SMH you are like me a Cal STEM grad so you will have no problem following my points, and I welcome your counterpoints as you're a solid poster and a bona fide good guy I've had the pleasure of meeting.

OK, first point: the world is awash in food, even as demand for food has been growing at a fast rate due to (a) population growth and (b) the explosive growth in the middle classes in BRICS and the rest of the developing world. We have already reached peak farmland at the global scale, because yields have been going up steadily, we are getting more wheat, rice, corn out per acre than ever before, on less and less land. Total farmland is peaking now at 5 billion acres.

Quote:

OSLO (Reuters) - The amount of land needed to grow crops worldwide is at a peak, and a geographical area more than twice the size of France will be able to return to its natural state by 2060 as a result of rising yields and slower population growth, a group of experts said on Monday.

Their report, conflicting with United Nations studies that say more cropland will be needed in coming decades to avert hunger and price spikes as the world population rises above 7 billion, said humanity had reached what it called "Peak Farmland".

More crops for use as biofuels and increased meat consumption in emerging economies such as China and India, demanding more cropland to feed livestock, would not offset a fall from the peak driven by improved yields, it calculated.

If the report is accurate, the land freed up from crop farming would be some 10 percent of what is currently in use - equivalent to 2.5 times the size of France, Europe's biggest country bar Russia, or more than all the arable land now utilized in China.

"We believe that humanity has reached Peak Farmland, and that a large net global restoration of land to nature is ready to begin," said Jesse Ausubel, director of the Program for the Human Environment at the Rockefeller University in New York.

"Happily, the cause is not exhaustion of arable land, as many had feared, but rather moderation of population and tastes and ingenuity of farmers," he wrote in a speech about the study he led in the journal Population and Development Review.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crops/peak-farmland-is-here-crop-area-to-diminish-study-idUSBRE8BG0QH20121217

This is what the phenomenon looks like for corn:



Note that there is a parallel phenomenon in consumer goods, for example:



That's the reason we're never going to run out of resources, oil and coal included:


https://hackernoon.com/welcome-to-peak-stuff-e699820c7e9b


But to go back to food production, one of the main reasons yields have been going up so much is that CO2 levels have been going up. CO2 is a very powerful plant fertilizer, greenhouse operators will nearly double their plant yields by pumping CO2 up above 1,000ppm, that's why every greenhouse farmer will do this.





Rising CO2 levels have resulted in what's known as CO2 greening, or the worldwide increase in green cover due to rising CO2 levels:


https://phys.org/news/2013-07-greening-co2.html
As shown on this map, the CO2 greening is most dramatic in arid areas like the African sub-Saharan Sahel and western India and Australia, because plants need fewer stomata for photosynthesis when CO2 is higher, thus they will lose less water in the photosynthesis process. Hence less water is needed to grow plants when CO2 is higher.


Another point that the alarmists ignore when freaking out about crop disasters is that warmer temperatures worldwide will result in bigger crops, especially in the wheat and corn belts. A lot of the wheat production is grown in northern countries like Canada, Russia and Ukraine, those crops are much more vulnerable to cooler weather, especially cold snaps in late Spring and early Summer.

Bottom line: there is absolutely no evidence that we will run out of food in 2050 or that food production will be seriously disrupted in the near future. There has been a steady rise in world food production matching the rise in demand, no food shortages observed, and there is still a lot of land available in regions like Africa or Russia to increase production in case crops fail.


"The author is not a scientist, she is a UN policy maker and an anthropologist. "

That's funny coming from you. All the bogus crap you spew here come from conspiracy bloggers that are not scientist just like you!
Cal88
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I've got a decent scientific background, with lots of classes on stats, maths, physics, thermodynamics, dynamic systems, data analysis both at the undergrad and grad level at Cal. More than enough background to have a decent grasp on all the material I present. The UN policymaker on the other hand might have had one or two introductory math courses for non-scientists in her anthro curriculum.

Perhaps if you had some decent classes at Cal Poly SLO you might want to offer some rational counterpoints instead of throwing a drive by tantrum.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

It's not like your C+ in Math16A was going to help you understand all them curves above.

But speaking of losing credibility, and of reasoned responses or lack thereof, here is a recent sample of your remarkable deductive reasoning powers:

Quote:

...88 being a number used by white supremacists as a reference to some of their "precepts". Coincidence? And here we are talking about a poster named Cal88. Coincidence? Take a look at the meaning of the number 88 for white supremacists.

Move along kid.


Folks like you are defective at humor
calpoly
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Cal88 said:

I've got a decent scientific background, with lots of classes on stats, maths, physics, thermodynamics, dynamic systems, data analysis both at the undergrad and grad level at Cal. More than enough background to have a decent grasp on all the material I present. The UN policymaker on the other hand might have had one or two introductory math courses for non-scientists in her anthro curriculum.

Perhaps if you had some decent classes at Cal Poly SLO you might want to offer some rational counterpoints instead of throwing a drive by tantrum.
You are denigrating people you don't know. I have a BA (Cal), MS (Stanford), and PhD (Stanford) in physics. I have dedicated my career to research and teaching in physics at SLAC, Cornell, and CERN. I guess, according to you, I should consider myself a non-scientist and believe the crap you spew.

In addition, you don't know what classes or what level of understanding the UN policy member has. Instead you post proven lies from blog sites (run by people that have NO science) that are funded by corporations that have vested interests in denying anything to do with climate change.
Cal88
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I've denigrated people like dajo who has been nothing but complete @sshole who has gone out of his way to smear me as a real nazi and a Russian agent, and done so literally dozens of times, his clumsy denial above is just as transparent as the rest of his schtick. At some point those kinds of viscous personal attacks have to be called out, especially something as insidious as calling someone who has lost family members to Nazi Germany an actual nazi.


CalPoly, your scientific credentials are extremely solid, but have been of no use if you're so blinded by your ideology as to viscerally reject anything that goes against it, in a very aggressive manner I might add. Historically scientific progress has often come from people like Galileo who have dared challenge the prevailing scientific consensus.

More recently, discoverers of tectonic plate theory and the bacterial origin of ulcers were severely shunned and marginalized by their contemporaries for going against the consensus of their times. This is also taking place today in the field of climate research, with people like Judith Curry, former head of the Earth and Atmospheric Sciences dpt at Georgia Tech being pushed out of academia for not toeing the alarmist climate line.

I've presented above facts and statements from sources like phys.org, NASA, from a leading climate scientist from MIT and from the director of the Program for the Human Environment at the Rockefeller University to buttress solid counterpoints to the main thesis of the alarmist article SMH posted, that (1) we're going to run out of food due to rising CO2 and (2) the arctic ice sheet is on a one-way course towards melting, and did so using data from sources like hadCRUT, NASA and the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences.

The main reason I go through the trouble of taking the time to write well-supported posts is that I am often presenting information and views that are not available in outlets like the Guardian and the rest of the MSM, where articles that go against the doomer narrative are outright banned as part of their editorial policy. For example here I've presented the phenomena of CO2 Global Greening and Peak Farmland.

If you're not open to any dialogue because you're that close-minded and ideologically committed to your CAGW stance, you should at least try to keep your responses at a minimum of civility.
calpoly
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Cal88 said:

I've denigrated people like dajo who has been nothing but complete @sshole who has gone out of his way to smear me as a real nazi and a Russian agent, and done so literally dozens of times, his clumsy denial above is just as transparent as the rest of his schtick. At some point those kinds of viscous personal attacks have to be called out, especially something as insidious as calling someone who has lost family members to Nazi Germany an actual nazi.


CalPoly, your scientific credentials are extremely solid, but have been of no use if you're so blinded by your ideology as to viscerally reject anything that goes against it, in a very aggressive manner I might add. Historically scientific progress has often come from people like Galileo who have dared challenge the prevailing scientific consensus.

More recently, discoverers of tectonic plate theory and the bacterial origin of ulcers were severely shunned and marginalized by their contemporaries for going against the consensus of their times. This is also taking place today in the field of climate research, with people like Judith Curry, former head of the Earth and Atmospheric Sciences dpt at Georgia Tech being pushed out of academia for not toeing the alarmist climate line.

I've presented above facts and statements from sources like phys.org, NASA, from a leading climate scientist from MIT and from the director of the Program for the Human Environment at the Rockefeller University to buttress solid counterpoints to the main thesis of the alarmist article SMH posted, that (1) we're going to run out of food due to rising CO2 and (2) the arctic ice sheet is on a one-way course towards melting, and did so using data from sources like hadCRUT, NASA and the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences.

The main reason I go through the trouble of taking the time to write well-supported posts is that I am often presenting information and views that are not available in outlets like the Guardian and the rest of the MSM, where articles that go against the doomer narrative are outright banned as part of their editorial policy. For example here I've presented the phenomena of CO2 Global Greening and Peak Farmland.

If you're not open to any dialogue because you're that close-minded and ideologically committed to your CAGW stance, you should at least try to keep your responses at a minimum of civility.

You say "If you're not open to any dialogue because you're that close-minded and ideologically committed to your CAGW stance, you should at least try to keep your responses at a minimum of civility."

This is EXACTLY what you do. If you don't like someone narrative you attack them. You did it to me and others. You claim that you present "facts" from sources but you pull out narratives from these sources and buttress them from you conspiracy blogs and claim that it is a scientific study. You are the one that is close minded and uncivil. Good day!

chazzed
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Fortunately, there are people that do not bury their heads in the sand and do not simply pass the buck onto their children:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/jeff-bezos-10-billion-climate-change-200822069.html
sycasey
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dajo9 said:

We've had numerous posts on these boards by Cal88 that have been proven to be false.

Cal88, the reason you aren't getting reasoned responses is because you lost your credibility on this topic long ago.

Yup. His claim about a scientific consensus on "global cooling" in the 1970s was based on Time Magazine articles that didn't exist. I know because I went and looked up the articles online. Total lie.

I completely stopped taking his arguments on climate change seriously after that. This was about 5 years ago.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

I've denigrated people like dajo who has been nothing but complete @sshole who has gone out of his way to smear me as a real nazi and a Russian agent, and done so literally dozens of times, his clumsy denial above is just as transparent as the rest of his schtick. At some point those kinds of viscous personal attacks have to be called out, especially something as insidious as calling someone who has lost family members to Nazi Germany an actual nazi.


CalPoly, your scientific credentials are extremely solid, but have been of no use if you're so blinded by your ideology as to viscerally reject anything that goes against it, in a very aggressive manner I might add. Historically scientific progress has often come from people like Galileo who have dared challenge the prevailing scientific consensus.

More recently, discoverers of tectonic plate theory and the bacterial origin of ulcers were severely shunned and marginalized by their contemporaries for going against the consensus of their times. This is also taking place today in the field of climate research, with people like Judith Curry, former head of the Earth and Atmospheric Sciences dpt at Georgia Tech being pushed out of academia for not toeing the alarmist climate line.

I've presented above facts and statements from sources like phys.org, NASA, from a leading climate scientist from MIT and from the director of the Program for the Human Environment at the Rockefeller University to buttress solid counterpoints to the main thesis of the alarmist article SMH posted, that (1) we're going to run out of food due to rising CO2 and (2) the arctic ice sheet is on a one-way course towards melting, and did so using data from sources like hadCRUT, NASA and the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences.

The main reason I go through the trouble of taking the time to write well-supported posts is that I am often presenting information and views that are not available in outlets like the Guardian and the rest of the MSM, where articles that go against the doomer narrative are outright banned as part of their editorial policy. For example here I've presented the phenomena of CO2 Global Greening and Peak Farmland.

If you're not open to any dialogue because you're that close-minded and ideologically committed to your CAGW stance, you should at least try to keep your responses at a minimum of civility.



I have said you nonstop repeat Putin propaganda on numerous subjects. I say that because you do and you have since at least 2016 when I noticed the pattern.

Does that make you a Russian agent? I haven't made that link. I don't guess at your motives I just observe your actions. Repeating Putin propaganda is the only thing I've accused you of (oil is the major revenue source for Putin's Russia so Putin hates the climate change issue).
calpoly
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sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

We've had numerous posts on these boards by Cal88 that have been proven to be false.

Cal88, the reason you aren't getting reasoned responses is because you lost your credibility on this topic long ago.

Yup. His claim about a scientific consensus on "global cooling" in the 1970s was based on Time Magazine articles that didn't exist. I know because I went and looked up the articles online. Total lie.

I completely stopped taking his arguments on climate change seriously after that. This was about 5 years ago.
Your wiser than me!
Cal88
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sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

We've had numerous posts on these boards by Cal88 that have been proven to be false.

Cal88, the reason you aren't getting reasoned responses is because you lost your credibility on this topic long ago.

Yup. His claim about a scientific consensus on "global cooling" in the 1970s was based on Time Magazine articles that didn't exist. I know because I went and looked up the articles online. Total lie.

I completely stopped taking his arguments on climate change seriously after that. This was about 5 years ago.

You're lying sycasey, and you know it, because we've had this exchange on this topic, the 1970s scientific global cooling consensus only two months ago (LINK) and I've buttressed my claim with a list of 285 scientific papers and articles supporting my position, not some "Time Magazine articles that didn't exist".

Here is this list that I've provided once again:

https://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-1/
Items 1 through 95

https://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-2/#sthash.SxQ2cmJb.dpbs
items 96 through 205

https://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-3/#sthash.rTVF3ylB.dpbs
items 206 through 285
Cal88
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calpoly said:

Cal88 said:

I've denigrated people like dajo who has been nothing but complete @sshole who has gone out of his way to smear me as a real nazi and a Russian agent, and done so literally dozens of times, his clumsy denial above is just as transparent as the rest of his schtick. At some point those kinds of viscous personal attacks have to be called out, especially something as insidious as calling someone who has lost family members to Nazi Germany an actual nazi.


CalPoly, your scientific credentials are extremely solid, but have been of no use if you're so blinded by your ideology as to viscerally reject anything that goes against it, in a very aggressive manner I might add. Historically scientific progress has often come from people like Galileo who have dared challenge the prevailing scientific consensus.

More recently, discoverers of tectonic plate theory and the bacterial origin of ulcers were severely shunned and marginalized by their contemporaries for going against the consensus of their times. This is also taking place today in the field of climate research, with people like Judith Curry, former head of the Earth and Atmospheric Sciences dpt at Georgia Tech being pushed out of academia for not toeing the alarmist climate line.

I've presented above facts and statements from sources like phys.org, NASA, from a leading climate scientist from MIT and from the director of the Program for the Human Environment at the Rockefeller University to buttress solid counterpoints to the main thesis of the alarmist article SMH posted, that (1) we're going to run out of food due to rising CO2 and (2) the arctic ice sheet is on a one-way course towards melting, and did so using data from sources like hadCRUT, NASA and the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences.

The main reason I go through the trouble of taking the time to write well-supported posts is that I am often presenting information and views that are not available in outlets like the Guardian and the rest of the MSM, where articles that go against the doomer narrative are outright banned as part of their editorial policy. For example here I've presented the phenomena of CO2 Global Greening and Peak Farmland.

If you're not open to any dialogue because you're that close-minded and ideologically committed to your CAGW stance, you should at least try to keep your responses at a minimum of civility.

You say "If you're not open to any dialogue because you're that close-minded and ideologically committed to your CAGW stance, you should at least try to keep your responses at a minimum of civility."

This is EXACTLY what you do. If you don't like someone narrative you attack them. You did it to me and others. You claim that you present "facts" from sources but you pull out narratives from these sources and buttress them from you conspiracy blogs and claim that it is a scientific study. You are the one that is close minded and uncivil. Good day!

If those facts and items are false, or my reasoning flawed in any way, and you feel confident about this, you can provide your expertise to criticize them and offer your counterpoint, it shouldn't be too hard for you to refute these points, or at least attempt to.

You've never done anything of the sort, all you've done is smear everything I post here as "bogus crap from conspiracy bloggers".

The fact is, you just don't have enough of an open mind to engage in a constructive debate, you will viscerally reject anything that goes against your views as heresy.

smh
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just for fun, ymmv, could be taken as allegorical any number of ways..


muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
chazzed
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It's not worth arguing about something that is settled, in spite of what regressive, hold-out groups say. If you want to wax poetic about fake and questionable studies, you have that freedom. I'm not going to indulge you, though. You know that saying about never arguing with a fool...
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

We've had numerous posts on these boards by Cal88 that have been proven to be false.

Cal88, the reason you aren't getting reasoned responses is because you lost your credibility on this topic long ago.

Yup. His claim about a scientific consensus on "global cooling" in the 1970s was based on Time Magazine articles that didn't exist. I know because I went and looked up the articles online. Total lie.

I completely stopped taking his arguments on climate change seriously after that. This was about 5 years ago.

You're lying sycasey, and you know it, because we've had this exchange on this topic, the 1970s scientific global cooling consensus only two months ago (LINK) and I've buttressed my claim with a list of 285 scientific papers and articles supporting my position, not some "Time Magazine articles that didn't exist".

Here is this list that I've provided once again:

https://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-1/
Items 1 through 95

https://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-2/#sthash.SxQ2cmJb.dpbs
items 96 through 205

https://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-3/#sthash.rTVF3ylB.dpbs
items 206 through 285
You don't cite the fake Time articles NOW, probably because I called you out on it at the time. You definitely did then. I went to the trouble of purchasing an online Time subscription just so I could confirm the articles weren't what you said they were.

I will no longer take seriously a guy who provides that kind of "evidence."
Cal88
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I've got over 1,000 posts on OT, If you have to make up a Rashomon story about some red herring article from 5 years ago, it's because you can't deny any of the hundreds of statements I've posted recently.


Tedhead94
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https://time.com/5670942/time-magazine-ice-age-cover-hoax/

Pretty straight forward and has a basic, rational explanation.
sycasey
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Everyone can "Rashomon" for themselves here and read the original posts, which I managed to dig up.

First, Cal88 posts a faked Time cover that is a literal photoshop and is called out for it.

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/66429/replies/1380521

Here he posts more covers supposedly about global cooling:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/66429/replies/1380710

Here is where I showed my work in looking up these articles and proving they were not what he said they were:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/66429/replies/1380719

The only thing I was wrong about here was the date: it was really about three years ago, not five, that this exchange took place (though that thread was originally started five years ago).

I'd already been extremely skeptical of everything this guy posted about climate change science, but I completely gave up on his credibility after this. The guy who supposedly does all his own research and has great expertise on these matters apparently didn't even bother to read the articles he cited, more than once, to support his position. You are all free to make your own decisions on Cal88, but this is why I'm out.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Everyone can "Rashomon" for themselves here and read the original posts, which I managed to dig up.

First, Cal88 posts a faked Time cover that is a literal photoshop and is called out for it.

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/66429/replies/1380521

Here he posts more covers supposedly about global cooling:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/66429/replies/1380710

Here is where I showed my work in looking up these articles and proving they were not what he said they were:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/66429/replies/1380719

The only thing I was wrong about here was the date: it was really about three years ago, not five, that this exchange took place (though that thread was originally started five years ago).

I'd already been extremely skeptical of everything this guy posted about climate change science, but I completely gave up on his credibility after this. The guy who supposedly does all his own research and has great expertise on these matters apparently didn't even bother to read the articles he cited, more than once, to support his position. You are all free to make your own decisions on Cal88, but this is why I'm out.


This is why people hate lawyers, when you're losing an argument because you're on the wrong side of the truth, you resort to classic red herring misdirection and character attacks.

The argument here was whether there was a scientific consensus on global cooling in the 1970s.

I've posted and linked over 300 articles and studies in that thread, HERE and HERE. The second link is where I've laid to rest any doubts about the argument.

You pick one item, a Time magazine cover, and try to reduce this whole debate and make it all about that magazine (misdirection - red herring) and ignore the 300+ mountain of articles and studies I've provided.

I guess that's what lawyers do.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

You pick one item, a Time magazine cover,
Four items.
Page 1 of 2
 
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