Nancy Pelosi wants a national mask mandate

6,138 Views | 67 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by helltopay1
bearister
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The problem with the attempt to have a mask debate is that one side is supported the Rule of Law and the other side is not....until that side has some guy who will only identify himself as Free Man file a legal action to enjoin enforcement of the mask order.

California COVID-19 mask order tests Newsom's power limits - Los Angeles Times


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-29/california-mask-order-gavin-newsom-powers-coronavirus
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-29/california-mask-order-gavin-newsom-powers-coronavirus%3f_amp=true
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GBear4Life
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Some of these mouth breathers are rationalizing violent lawlessness when it affirms their ideology but have a cow when somebody objects to being forced to wear a mask that might spread a virus with a death rate for those under 50 lower than that of a morning commute to work.

Again the outrage machine are the loudest but they have zero credibility on this.

A business can force you to wear a mask, pure and simple. Just add mask to "shoes and shirt". Every business I encountered before the CA mandate were requiring masks anyways. I find the outrage machine who has a cow when spotting someone in a business without a mask 100x more pathetic than your average "Karen". Get a life.

What I find strange is the mandate that even in public spaces, like a park or a regular old sidewalk, where others are present in "close proximity", you are forced to wear one. Spare me. I see little compliance from people in this from the start and for good reason.

Somebody used the example of states being permitted to ban smoking from designated outdoor public/private areas (and indoor of course). That might be an apt analogy, but what would be more accurate is if NOT smoking increased the risk of health problems, can they force to take an action in the affirmative to mitigate some of that risk. On top of the fact that smoking and not wearing a mask are not just in a different category (one is not doing something and one is doing something), they're not in the same ballpark in terms of active contraction.

Despite being a man of great conviction and principle, I am a go with the flow type of guy. I seek to not be the problem when in public. I don't hold up lines at grocery stores, banks, bars and restaurants. I wear a mask when I enter business both because it's a personal choice I find to be sensible and that's the public's expectation. If somebody asks me whether they should wear one, I'd recommend that they do. But what I think is sensible, and even when it's good for everyone, is not in and of itself justification for mandating it. We've been over this: we don't mandate things all the time that would be undeniably better for everyone if it comes at a certain expense (e.g. individual liberty).

So, not that I find the people outraged over this credible or sensible, as they are invariably the same type of person that flips the switch when convenient (e.g. domestic terrorism in the name of racial justice) -- and nor do I find all objections to mask wearing and their motivations credible or sensible -- but it's also a fundamental conflation of equating "good for everyone" with "let's do it and I'm going to demonize everyone who has a reasonable good faith objection". Because again, "good for everyone" isn't always crystal clear, and very few matters of social and political policy have zero costs to anybody or anything.
bearister
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I was in line at the dry cleaners Friday. Sign on door: No Entry without Mask Pursuant to State Law. 30 something contractor ahead of me, no mask. I had a mask, the employee had a mask, a police detective behind me in golf shirt with badge and a holstered Glock had a mask. No one said anything. I just figured the contractor was making a political statement. The only ones he is endangering are those who spawned him but he probably never visits them anyway. I wouldn't think of saying anything to anyone not wearing a mask.
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MSaviolives
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I'm just curious, those of you that feel a mask requirement is liberty infringing (which it is for sure but like all liberties subject to balancing harm), are you also against indoor smoking bans like in restaurants, planes and offices? You are cool with me sitting next to you on BART or in a restaurant or other enclosed space, and smoking a cigar or cigarette? You can always leave, right? You don't need to come in at all. Or is the best solution to let the establishment and therefore the market decide?

I will agree that there is some nanny state and liberty infringement in lots of our laws, but that is because there are externalities to certain conduct, and people will selfishly insist on engaging in an act of liberty that can cause damage to others unless nanny tells them they can't. Balancing these competing interests and line drawing are where the rubber of policy and politics hits the road. And since it is political, no doubt people will disagree about what the policy should be--with wing nuts wanting more liberty, and commie pinko snowflakes wanting more nanny (Note: just a little humor my friends).
Big C
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I'm seriously thinking about starting to go grocery shopping naked. It feels comfortable in the heat of summer and it seems like it should be my right. If people don't like it -- and trust me nobody will -- they can just avert their eyes or maybe shop somewhere else. If the produce man says that tiny bits of dingleberry are ending up on the organic arugula he just put out, well, he should put up a plexiglass shield or something.

Who the hell wants to live in a Nanny State ("Nancy State"?)? This is America.
MSaviolives
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Big C said:


I'm seriously thinking about starting to go grocery shopping naked. It feels comfortable in the heat of summer and it seems like it should be my right. If people don't like it -- and trust me nobody will -- they can just avert their eyes or maybe shop somewhere else. If the produce man says that tiny bits of dingleberry are ending up on the organic arugula he just put out, well, he should put up a plexiglass shield or something.

Who the hell wants to live in a Nanny State ("Nancy State"?)? This is America.


Ha! The City of Berkeley and Cal have lots of experience making policy about naked people. The City had the naked people group and Cal had the naked guy. Not legal any more.
smh
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Big C said:


I'm seriously thinking about starting to go grocery shopping naked. It feels comfortable in the heat of summer and it seems like it should be my right. If people don't like it -- and trust me nobody will -- they can just avert their eyes or maybe shop somewhere else. If the produce man says that tiny bits of dingleberry are ending up on the organic arugula he just put out, well, he should put up a plexiglass shield or something.

Who the hell wants to live in a Nanny State ("Nancy State"?)? This is America.
^ funny stuff

but like cray-cray "they" say on the internets, pics or it dint happen BC.

ps (and is true) - w/o home air condiditoning some us cybares aren't fully dressed 24x7x365
muting ~250 handles, turnaround is fair play
bearister
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Big C said:


I'm seriously thinking about starting to go grocery shopping naked. It feels comfortable in the heat of summer and it seems like it should be my right. If people don't like it -- and trust me nobody will -- they can just avert their eyes or maybe shop somewhere else. If the produce man says that tiny bits of dingleberry are ending up on the organic arugula he just put out, well, he should put up a plexiglass shield or something.

Who the hell wants to live in a Nanny State ("Nancy State"?)? This is America.


I would seriously consider it if it weren't for the fact I am possessed of a bell clapper that would cause a lot of insecurity in others, not to mention problems at home if wives or significant others came along for the shopping outing.
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GBear4Life
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bearister said:

I wouldn't think of saying anything to anyone not wearing a mask.
You shouldn't. Because you're old. Really old. You're vulnerable.
blungld
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bearister said:


I would seriously consider it if it weren't for the fact I am possessed of a bell clapper that would cause a lot of insecurity in others, not to mention problems at home if wives or significant others came along for the shopping outing.
bearister
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GBear4Life said:

bearister said:

I wouldn't think of saying anything to anyone not wearing a mask.
You shouldn't. Because you're old. Really old. You're vulnerable.


Diamond cutter.
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Krugman Is A Moron
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MSaviolives said:

I'm just curious, those of you that feel a mask requirement is liberty infringing (which it is for sure but like all liberties subject to balancing harm), are you also against indoor smoking bans like in restaurants, planes and offices? You are cool with me sitting next to you on BART or in a restaurant or other enclosed space, and smoking a cigar or cigarette? You can always leave, right? You don't need to come in at all. Or is the best solution to let the establishment and therefore the market decide?
Not a great analogy.

I can stand 6 feet away from you in a mask and be well over 90% certain you won't infect me. If I'm six feet away in a mask while you're smoking, I still have to deal with all your second-hand smoke. If I'm on a BART train, I can't leave the BART train until it comes to its next stop. If I'm on a plane, I can't leave until the plane lands.

Most importantly, your smoking is a hazard to the people who work in those environments, which is why governments mandate safety requirements for workers so that they have a safe environment to work in.

Where I live, every open establishment mandates that people wear a mask. This is their right to refuse service to anyone in action. Don't want to wear a mask? Fine. Find an establishment that will serve you. You'll have a damn tough time where I live.

Let's say I was in Florida tthough. I can still go into an establishment that doesn't require masks, wear a mask, socially distance, and whatever verbal abuse I get for being a wimp, I'll be safe. If the other people want to take a Russian Roulette approach to their health, that's fine. Let them bear the risks of their bad behavior.

Honestly, nature deciding that the world could use less Floridians is an appropriate response.
bearister
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" Honestly, nature deciding that the world could use less Floridians is an appropriate response."

It's all part of God's plan for Floridians.
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Krugman Is A Moron
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I like to think of them as Branch Floridians
bearister
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The croaking Floridians can at least take solace from the Evangelical go to: "Everything happens for a reason."

Chinese authorities humiliating people for not wearing face masks


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/19/chinese-authorities-humiliating-people-not-wearing-face-masks/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/19/chinese-authorities-humiliating-people-not-wearing-face-masks/amp/
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MSaviolives
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Matthew Patel said:

MSaviolives said:

I'm just curious, those of you that feel a mask requirement is liberty infringing (which it is for sure but like all liberties subject to balancing harm), are you also against indoor smoking bans like in restaurants, planes and offices? You are cool with me sitting next to you on BART or in a restaurant or other enclosed space, and smoking a cigar or cigarette? You can always leave, right? You don't need to come in at all. Or is the best solution to let the establishment and therefore the market decide?
Not a great analogy.

I can stand 6 feet away from you in a mask and be well over 90% certain you won't infect me. If I'm six feet away in a mask while you're smoking, I still have to deal with all your second-hand smoke. If I'm on a BART train, I can't leave the BART train until it comes to its next stop. If I'm on a plane, I can't leave until the plane lands.

Most importantly, your smoking is a hazard to the people who work in those environments, which is why governments mandate safety requirements for workers so that they have a safe environment to work in.

Where I live, every open establishment mandates that people wear a mask. This is their right to refuse service to anyone in action. Don't want to wear a mask? Fine. Find an establishment that will serve you. You'll have a damn tough time where I live.

Let's say I was in Florida tthough. I can still go into an establishment that doesn't require masks, wear a mask, socially distance, and whatever verbal abuse I get for being a wimp, I'll be safe. If the other people want to take a Russian Roulette approach to their health, that's fine. Let them bear the risks of their bad behavior.

Honestly, nature deciding that the world could use less Floridians is an appropriate response.
I'm not so sure that someone with active COVID sitting without a mask only 6 feet away from me for a significant amount of time in an enclosed space is little risk to me, even if I have a mask. The enclosed space and viral load is the issue to me. And the more people without masks in the enclosed space, the higher the risk as I see it. I hear that Newsom just shut down indoor dining again in a number of counties, which suggests that there is a significant risk of being indoors even if socially distancing. So I do see smoking as a fair comparison.

As for letting the establishment decide, I hear you. But I'm not sure this is a market decision that will work for the population. These are difficult choices for sure.

Thanks for your cordial response, which I appreciate.

Cheers and stay well
GBear4Life
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Newsome and others have ZERO credibility in shutting down businesses due to COVID at this point given their stance on social distancing and masks matter when addressing protests and the mob violence that ensued.

I can only hope business and patrons alike band together and REJECT Newscum's egregious double standards.
GoOskie
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bearister said:

I was in line at the dry cleaners Friday. Sign on door: No Entry without Mask Pursuant to State Law. 30 something contractor ahead of me, no mask. I had a mask, the employee had a mask, a police detective behind me in golf shirt with badge and a holstered Glock had a mask. No one said anything. I just figured the contractor was making a political statement. The only ones he is endangering are those who spawned him but he probably never visits them anyway. I wouldn't think of saying anything to anyone not wearing a mask.
I've gone to many businesses that have signs saying "No mask, No entry". I go in and, except for staff, hardly anyone is wearing one.

I'm all for fines for people not wearing masks. Don't like it, move to ##### Florida. The restaurant my daughter works at will be closing now. It's OK, they're tRumpies and didn't take the virus seriously anyway. I hope they go out of business.

You don't want to wear a mask because of liberty, then don't ##### whine when Newsom has to clamp down.


This just in: Republicans find another whistleblower who claims Hillary's emails were proven to be on Hunter's laptop while Obama spied on tRump as he sat (shat?) upon his golden toilet. Gym Jordan afraid whistle blower may be in danger of abduction by aliens in cahoots with Democrats.
Krugman Is A Moron
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MSaviolives said:

Matthew Patel said:

MSaviolives said:

I'm just curious, those of you that feel a mask requirement is liberty infringing (which it is for sure but like all liberties subject to balancing harm), are you also against indoor smoking bans like in restaurants, planes and offices? You are cool with me sitting next to you on BART or in a restaurant or other enclosed space, and smoking a cigar or cigarette? You can always leave, right? You don't need to come in at all. Or is the best solution to let the establishment and therefore the market decide?
Not a great analogy.

I can stand 6 feet away from you in a mask and be well over 90% certain you won't infect me. If I'm six feet away in a mask while you're smoking, I still have to deal with all your second-hand smoke. If I'm on a BART train, I can't leave the BART train until it comes to its next stop. If I'm on a plane, I can't leave until the plane lands.

Most importantly, your smoking is a hazard to the people who work in those environments, which is why governments mandate safety requirements for workers so that they have a safe environment to work in.

Where I live, every open establishment mandates that people wear a mask. This is their right to refuse service to anyone in action. Don't want to wear a mask? Fine. Find an establishment that will serve you. You'll have a damn tough time where I live.

Let's say I was in Florida tthough. I can still go into an establishment that doesn't require masks, wear a mask, socially distance, and whatever verbal abuse I get for being a wimp, I'll be safe. If the other people want to take a Russian Roulette approach to their health, that's fine. Let them bear the risks of their bad behavior.

Honestly, nature deciding that the world could use less Floridians is an appropriate response.
I'm not so sure that someone with active COVID sitting without a mask only 6 feet away from me for a significant amount of time in an enclosed space is little risk to me, even if I have a mask. The enclosed space and viral load is the issue to me. And the more people without masks in the enclosed space, the higher the risk as I see it. I hear that Newsom just shut down indoor dining again in a number of counties, which suggests that there is a significant risk of being indoors even if socially distancing. So I do see smoking as a fair comparison.

As for letting the establishment decide, I hear you. But I'm not sure this is a market decision that will work for the population. These are difficult choices for sure.

Thanks for your cordial response, which I appreciate.

Cheers and stay well
Piss on Newsom. I want to know why Newsom is doing about 100 sick prisoners sent to San Quentin.
Big C
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GBear4Life said:

Newsome and others have ZERO credibility in shutting down businesses due to COVID at this point given their stance on social distancing and masks matter when addressing protests and the mob violence that ensued.

I can only hope business and patrons alike band together and REJECT Newscum's egregious double standards.

Wrong.
Yogi37
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GBear4Life said:

Newsome and others
People who can't spell the last name of the governor of their own state have no credibility on anything
AunBear89
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Not Me - Us said:

GBear4Life said:

Newsome and others
People who can't spell the last name of the governor of their own state have no credibility on anything


Weeeeee! Hyperbole is fun! Even Bernie Bros can do it! But Republicons are the BEST at it.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
GBear4Life
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Yeah, spelling refutations. That along with calling somebody "mean" or a "racist", that's up there with most popular deflections.

I repeat, NewSCUM and the regressive apologists have no ground to stand on with their outrage and finger wagging. Spare me.

Did I spell it right this time?
GBear4Life
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Big C said:

GBear4Life said:

Newsome and others have ZERO credibility in shutting down businesses due to COVID at this point given their stance on social distancing and masks matter when addressing protests and the mob violence that ensued.

I can only hope business and patrons alike band together and REJECT Newscum's egregious double standards.

Wrong.


You lose
Big C
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GBear4Life said:

Big C said:

GBear4Life said:

Newsome and others have ZERO credibility in shutting down businesses due to COVID at this point given their stance on social distancing and masks matter when addressing protests and the mob violence that ensued.

I can only hope business and patrons alike band together and REJECT Newscum's egregious double standards.

Wrong.


You lose
Bobodeluxe
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sycasey
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Not Me - Us said:

GBear4Life said:

Newsome and others
People who can't spell the last name of the governor of their own state have no credibility on anything
Yes, clearly it's supposed to be spelled "Newscum."
bearister
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golden sloth
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GBear4Life said:

Newsome and others have ZERO credibility in shutting down businesses due to COVID at this point given their stance on social distancing and masks matter when addressing protests and the mob violence that ensued.

I can only hope business and patrons alike band together and REJECT Newscum's egregious double standards.


I'm not convinced that the government orders to shut businesses down played a major role in the economic collapse when compared to the basic public fear and sentiment towards the disease. I might provide some links later after work but there have several studies comparing lockdowned places with non-lockdown places and there was not much difference in economic activity.
Yogi38
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bearister said:





Now that right there is a stupid plan.
blungld
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Yogi38
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blungld said:


Do you know that your images aren't uploading?
Yogi38
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https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/17/masks-urged-but-not-required-trump-rally-other-political-events/3485784001/
helltopay1
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Nancy Pelosi: what a privileged white brat. Daughter off a Mob dad. wants to defund the police , but, doesn';t mind having private security forces guard her estates in SF and Sonoma county. Stage 2 dementia. Speaking of masks, does she pay for her face lifts out of her pocket, or does she charge the taxpayers.
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