sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

---

So, you think there is another option that has any prayer of winning? Pray tell.

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

---

So, you think there is another option that has any prayer of winning? Pray tell.

---

The only reason there is no other option is because people think that only the Democrats and Republicans matter. People don't have to vote for either.

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

---

So, you think there is another option that has any prayer of winning? Pray tell.

---

The only reason there is no other option is because people think that only the Democrats and Republicans matter. People don't have to vote for either.

---

Okay, but here in reality rather than idealized fantasy world, there are two choices.

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

---

So, you think there is another option that has any prayer of winning? Pray tell.

---

The only reason there is no other option is because people think that only the Democrats and Republicans matter. People don't have to vote for either.

---

Okay, but here in reality rather than idealized fantasy world, there are two choices.

---

No. In reality, there are many choices. People choose to pretend those choices don't exist.

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

---

So, you think there is another option that has any prayer of winning? Pray tell.

---

The only reason there is no other option is because people think that only the Democrats and Republicans matter. People don't have to vote for either.

---

Okay, but here in reality rather than idealized fantasy world, there are two choices.

---

No. In reality, there are many choices. People choose to pretend those choices don't exist.

---

No, I mean right now, in this moment -- primaries over, no viable third-party challenge -- there are two choices. The polling reflects that.

OaktownBear said:

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LMK5 said:

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bearister said:

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Biden didn't seem senile at the Democratic debates. It was clear however, that everyone else on stage was smarter than him. That would have been the case even with Joe minus 40 years. A 10 year old could hold his own with tRump, intellectually. tRump is just a bully that regurgitates Tucker, Stephen Miller and Fox & Friends talking points. I'm not happy Joe is our guy, but you gotta dance with the guy that brought you.

---

Joe "you know the thing" Biden will not look good in a one-on-one debate and his handlers know it (and so does everyone on this board). They are keeping him tucked away as much as possible and for as long as possible. They've made a calculation: Who will hurt their chances more, the chaos in America's lawless Dem-run cities, or having Joe Biden appear in public? They've determined that they'll take their chances with the trashing of urban America. Stay tuned.

---

Wow. That is a bizarre take. Especially given the "chaos" has subsided. Whether they have hidden him away vs. keeping him and others safe from catching Covid while he issues statements and does interviews from inside is one question, but the bottom line is the reason they think they can afford it is that Trump has spent a couple months doing and saying things to hurt his chances of reelection and seen his standing in the polls plummet. Frankly, I think if Biden were a dazzling and brilliant person they still think the best course is to keep the focus on Trump. A view that is shared by absolutely everyone in the political sphere including Republican operatives, many of whom are focusing on trying to save the House and Senate. The calculation they have made is what helps Biden's chances more, Biden talking or Trump talking. The fact that they think it is Trump talking is 90% related to Trump. Since April 2, Trump's net approval rating (according to Fivethirtyeight) has gone from negative 4.3 to negative 15.4. If you were running against him you would also shut up, sit in your recliner and watch him go while eating your favorite brand of popcorn.

I've seen Biden at several debates over the past several months. He is fine. He has not appeared slow or confused. He is an average to below average debater and always has been. His main issue is he can seem out of touch to the world of Zoomers and Millennials by referring to things like record players, but that is baked in. I remember when Democrats so ramped up how bad George W. was going to be that when he failed to drool or poop his pants on stage it was a huge victory for him. Amazing that you guys are making the same mistake. You don't see the Democrats playing up Mr. "United Shezhsezeh" talking about the "Oranges of the Investigation". You have two guys that pretty equally likely to say something stupid at a debate. One who is expected to and one who isn't and keeps calling the other guy senile. The danger would be all on Trump's side except for the fact that if things stay the same he will have nothing to lose.

---

I don't think people are voting for BIden because of his oratory skills. Unless he literally wets his pants during the debates, not too many people who are going to vote for him will switch to Trump based on the debate performance. I suspect for many educated suburban and independent folks who tend to be slightly right of center, Trump has crossed the point of no return.

Having said that, why would Biden voluntarily debate Trump more than he needs to when it can only hurt him. Good performance is not going to win over any of Trump's base. It would be like being up by 20 with 3 minutes to go and shooting threes from midcourt with 2 seconds off the 24 second clock each time.

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

---

So, you think there is another option that has any prayer of winning? Pray tell.

---

The only reason there is no other option is because people think that only the Democrats and Republicans matter. People don't have to vote for either.

---

Okay, but here in reality rather than idealized fantasy world, there are two choices.

---

No. In reality, there are many choices. People choose to pretend those choices don't exist.

---

No, I mean right now, in this moment -- primaries over, no viable third-party challenge -- there are two choices. The polling reflects that.

---

They're not viable because the people are conditioned to think that only those two parties matter.

You can try to reframe it any way you want, but we're electing a bad President regardless because the people are dumb.

calbear93 said:

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Having said that, why would Biden voluntarily debate Trump more than he needs to when it can only hurt him. Good performance is not going to win over any of Trump's base. It would be like being up by 20 with 3 minutes to go and shooting threes from midcourt with 2 seconds off the 24 second clock each time.

---

There is literally no reason for Biden to debate Trump. He can only lose ground by doing it.

Anyone who is still planning to vote for Trump in July will be planning to vote for him in November and nothing can change it. The only thing that can change in the debate is that some Republicans who don't hate Trump, but don't like him either might take a look at Biden and say "That guy is not all there."

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

By the way, Joe Biden does not have a problem with winning over the left wing of the party.

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/08/joe-biden-young-black-voters-say-not-excited-candidate/5344135002/

---

Was this supposed to be a rebuttal? Some anecdotal examples of a relatively small slice of the electorate?

I don't think this really holds up well against 87-4 support in polling of Bernie voters.

---

You're trying so hard to convince yourself that people are voting FOR Biden and not AGAINST Trump

---

If you can show me where I made that argument, I'd like to see it.

In a two-man race, voting against the other guy is just as good as voting for you.

---

It's only a two man race because people think in black and white terms

---

So, you think there is another option that has any prayer of winning? Pray tell.

---

The only reason there is no other option is because people think that only the Democrats and Republicans matter. People don't have to vote for either.

---

Okay, but here in reality rather than idealized fantasy world, there are two choices.

---

No. In reality, there are many choices. People choose to pretend those choices don't exist.

---

No, I mean right now, in this moment -- primaries over, no viable third-party challenge -- there are two choices. The polling reflects that.

---

They're not viable because the people are conditioned to think that only those two parties matter.

You can try to reframe it any way you want, but we're electing a bad President regardless because the people are dumb.

---

I haven't tried to "frame" anything about the quality of the candidates, other than to say that Biden is clearly ahead and doesn't seem to have a problem with winning votes on his left flank.

Saying "the people are dumb" doesn't seem like a winning electoral argument to me, but you do you.

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

They're not viable because the people are conditioned to think that only those two parties matter.

You can try to reframe it any way you want, but we're electing a bad President regardless because the people are dumb.

---

I haven't tried to "frame" anything about the quality of the candidates, other than to say that Biden is clearly ahead and doesn't seem to have a problem with winning votes on his left flank.

Saying "the people are dumb" doesn't seem like a winning electoral argument to me, but you do you.

---

I'm not running for anything, so I can call the people whatever I want. And they are fscking stupid.

Matthew Patel said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

They're not viable because the people are conditioned to think that only those two parties matter.

You can try to reframe it any way you want, but we're electing a bad President regardless because the people are dumb.

---

I haven't tried to "frame" anything about the quality of the candidates, other than to say that Biden is clearly ahead and doesn't seem to have a problem with winning votes on his left flank.

Saying "the people are dumb" doesn't seem like a winning electoral argument to me, but you do you.

---

I'm not running for anything, so I can call the people whatever I want. And they are fscking stupid.

---

Fair enough!

And Righties are all good with differing opinions and perspectives....


You are either very stupid or intellectually dishonest. Or both.

AunBear89 said:

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I don't know what is worse. You having to Google a picture to make such a stupid retort or you having had this picture in your file. Get a life you whacko loner.

bearister said:

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---

Not cool that you doxxed AunBear.

Ok, snowflake. You really are overly sensitive. Show me on the teddy bear where the bad man touched you.

AunBear89 said:

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Ok, snowflake. You really are overly sensitive. Show me on the teddy bear where the bad man touched you.

---

Wow. So progressive. Now joking about pedophilia. You are one sick creep. Doesn't take much for you to betray yourself.

Oh, now you're going PC on me? You really ARE conflicted. Have you sought therapy or counseling?

Don't let your RepubliCON MAGAt buddies know how PC you are; they might start calling you a snowflake or Social Justice Warrior.

OK, you sick pedophile. Apparently being creeped out by your natural affinity for your criminal behavior is being PC. Get help and register so that kids can be protected from perverts like you, you sicko.

Name calling and insults, too. Wow. Straight from the MAGAt playbook. Mango Mussolini will be proud of you. Be sure to get your will call ticket to the next Trumpkin Covid 19 Party! Don't want to miss a chance to get your hateful self infected along with hundreds of your fellow "patriots".

AunBear89 said:

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Name calling and insults, too. Wow. Straight from the MAGAt playbook. Mango Mussolini will be proud of you. Be sure to get your will call ticket to the next Trumpkin Covid 19 Party! Don't want to miss a chance to get your hateful self infected along with hundreds of your fellow "patriots".

---

**** off, you sick pervert. We all now know where your mind goes. You are disgusting. Stay in your basement.

Again with hostility and name calling. You really have lost the plot. Good luck in your future endeavors. Try not to infect too many innocent people as you lead your angry, frustrated, and confused life.

AunBear89 said:

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Again with hostility and name calling. You really have lost the plot. Good luck in your future endeavors. Try not to infect too many innocent people as you lead your angry, frustrated, and confused life.

---

**** off, you degenerate. I knew there was something wrong with your mind but never would have thought your minds would go to such dark places. You are truly sick, joking about pedophilia. Disgusting trash.

AunBear89 said:

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Your faux outrage is comical.

---

OK, we all know what else you think is comical, pervert.

calbear93 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Your faux outrage is comical.

---

OK, we all know what else you think is comical, pervert.

---

This kind of language isn't getting you into heaven.

Matthew Patel said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Your faux outrage is comical.

---

OK, we all know what else you think is comical, pervert.

---

This kind of language isn't getting you into heaven.

---

Well, Yogi, it's a good thing I don't have to earn it.

calbear93 said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Your faux outrage is comical.

---

OK, we all know what else you think is comical, pervert.

---

This kind of language isn't getting you into heaven.

---

Well, Yogi, it's a good thing I don't have to earn it.

---

Everybody has to earn it. Just saying it doesn't clear the bar.

calbear93 said:

---

Well, Yogi, it's a good thing I don't have to earn it.

---

thread just took a strange turn, where's Yogi? signed, lurck
# who's on first

Matthew Patel said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Matthew Patel said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Your faux outrage is comical.

---

OK, we all know what else you think is comical, pervert.

---

This kind of language isn't getting you into heaven.

---

Well, Yogi, it's a good thing I don't have to earn it.

---

Everybody has to earn it. Just saying it doesn't clear the bar.

---

Sola fide, sola gratia