Most countries ( perhaps all) in Western Europe have now surpassed the US in Covid cases. naturally, most morons and liberals ( I repeat myself) will blame Trump for the European rise. Youcan't make this up---Many years ago, the 'liberal" view of the world would have been considered too deranged even to be included in any fiction section....not anymore--fiction is now gospel..Cole Porter never dreamt he was really on to something when he wrote his famous song...

why do I bother???

helltopay1 said:

---

Most countries ( perhaps all) in Western Europe have now surpassed the US in Covid cases. naturally, most morons and liberals ( I repeat myself) will blame Trump for the European rise. Youcan't make this up---Many years ago, the 'liberal" view of the world would have been considered too deranged even to be included in any fiction section....not anymore--fiction is now gospel..Cole Porter never dreamt he was really on to something when he wrote his famous song...

---

Bullshyte! It's not even close and that also includes daily positive cases.

The figures below are based on data from the Johns Hopkins University Center for Systems Science and Engineering. These numbers are updated every 15 minutes but may differ from other sources due to differences in reporting times.

Total Number of COVID Cases by Country:

United States
8,076,103

India
7,432,680

Brazil
5,200,300

Russia
1,376,020

Argentina
965,609

Colombia
945,354

Spain
936,560

Peru
862,417

France
843,475

Mexico
841,661

United Kingdom
705,428

South Africa
700,203

Iran
526,490

Chile
490,003

Iraq
423,524

Italy
402,536

Bangladesh
387,295

Germany
359,802

I

helltopay1 said:

---

Most countries ( perhaps all) in Western Europe have now surpassed the US in Covid cases. naturally, most morons and liberals ( I repeat myself) will blame Trump for the European rise. Youcan't make this up---Many years ago, the 'liberal" view of the world would have been considered too deranged even to be included in any fiction section....not anymore--fiction is now gospel..Cole Porter never dreamt he was really on to something when he wrote his famous song...

---

what do you mean when you say surpassed? on a per capita basis? Percentage of tests? Just new cases? Deaths? Hospitalizations? Europe or "Wester Europe" vs. uS as whole? You gotta spell out your numbers. You can't expect people to listen without citing specific numbers. People throw out all sorts of numbers on this board to justify their agenda, and you have to know exactly what number they are using. For example, most people think numbers not based on per capita are bull crap for obvious reasons.

The other comment is all stats are not equal. The US is not Switzerland (which most folks would consider "Western Europe") where the borders were shut, and the population is tested and traced. Switzerland obviously will show a higher number of cases given how much testing they do, but will show a much lower level of positive results (or did but is having a surge right now since they opened the borders, and have since forced quarantines on those entering the country in response to the surge). Switzerland also is one-third or population of California. Moreover, the US numbers are much more nuanced since the testing levels vary by states, as different states have different protocols in place. Most scientists thing COVID cases probably are underreported.

Coincidentally, if you add up the populations of the following five large European countries, that total just about equals the US population, so we can compare apples with apples. I'm talking about Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy and Spain.

We have a lot in common with those five countries: advanced health care, fairly heterogeneous populations, relative affluence and democratic governments. Additionally, Western Europe and the USA were each hit early and hard by the virus.

Population:

Those five: about 325 million
The U.S.A.: about 325 million

COVID cases:

Those five: about 3,265,000
The U.S.A.: about 8,000,000

COVID deaths:

Those five: about 157,000
The U.S.A.: about 220,000

Current COVID status:

Those five: the virus is surging
The U.S.A.: the virus is surging

Conclusion:

Until there's a reliable vaccine, SARS-CoV-2 is just flat-out going to have its way with any population that is not TOTALLY concentrated on suppressing it, but you can make it better, or you can make it worse. Europe hasn't done all that well against it. The US, even worse. We could've done better.

Big C said:

---

Coincidentally, if you add up the populations of the following five large European countries, that total just about equals the US population, so we can compare apples with apples. I'm talking about Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy and Spain.

We have a lot in common with those five countries: advanced health care, fairly heterogeneous populations, relative affluence and democratic governments. Additionally, Western Europe and the USA were each hit early and hard by the virus.

Population:

Those five: about 325 million
The U.S.A.: about 325 million

COVID cases:

Those five: about 3,265,000
The U.S.A.: about 8,000,000

COVID deaths:

Those five: aeatbout 157,000
The U.S.A.: about 220,000

Current COVID status:

Those five: the virus is surging
The U.S.A.: the virus is surging

Conclusion:

Until there's a reliable vaccine, SARS-CoV-2 is just flat-out going to have its way with any population that is not TOTALLY concentrated on suppressing it, but you can make it better, or you can make it worse. Europe hasn't done all that well against it. The US, even worse. We could've done better.

---

My conclusion is that there is no foolproof strategy. It's all about time in my opinion.

Even New Zealand, which has had only 25 deaths had thought to stamp it out had the virus come back a second time without allowing anybody from outside their country to enter the country. To hope that we're gonna stamp this thing out is a fool's errand. It's too adaptable and willing to mutate. They're just prolonging the inevitable stage where people are going to have to build immunity. If they make it to a point where a dependable vaccine is developed, then their strategy will ultimately pay off, but only immunity whether acquired as nature intended or by vaccine is going to eradicate this thing (for a while). We never gave ourselves that chance because our country never had a national strategy and so even if a few states did well initially due to being more rural or having a better lockdown, people that refused to cooperate ensured that it would spread anyway. But those areas are probably further along the path to immunity as a result.

We're still dealing with a virus that, to date, has a fatality rate of less than 2.7% of all that are infected. Of those people have died, 8 out of 10 deaths have been from adults 65 and older. It's also apparent that we're going to have people around us who are asymptomatic for some time.

As long as we keep having this moronic stance of shutting the entire country down for a disease that we can control with simple safety measures, this thing is going to linger longer and we're going to be pushing the time further down the line where we can resume living our lives without wearings masks.

Death Thirteen said:

---

Big C said:

---

Coincidentally, if you add up the populations of the following five large European countries, that total just about equals the US population, so we can compare apples with apples. I'm talking about Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy and Spain.

We have a lot in common with those five countries: advanced health care, fairly heterogeneous populations, relative affluence and democratic governments. Additionally, Western Europe and the USA were each hit early and hard by the virus.

Population:

Those five: about 325 million
The U.S.A.: about 325 million

COVID cases:

Those five: about 3,265,000
The U.S.A.: about 8,000,000

COVID deaths:

Those five: aeatbout 157,000
The U.S.A.: about 220,000

Current COVID status:

Those five: the virus is surging
The U.S.A.: the virus is surging

Conclusion:

Until there's a reliable vaccine, SARS-CoV-2 is just flat-out going to have its way with any population that is not TOTALLY concentrated on suppressing it, but you can make it better, or you can make it worse. Europe hasn't done all that well against it. The US, even worse. We could've done better.

---

My conclusion is that there is no foolproof strategy. It's all about time in my opinion.

Even New Zealand, which has had only 25 deaths had thought to stamp it out had the virus come back a second time without allowing anybody from outside their country to enter the country. To hope that we're gonna stamp this thing out is a fool's errand. It's too adaptable and willing to mutate. They're just prolonging the inevitable stage where people are going to have to build immunity. If they make it to a point where a dependable vaccine is developed, then their strategy will ultimately pay off, but only immunity whether acquired as nature intended or by vaccine is going to eradicate this thing (for a while). We never gave ourselves that chance because our country never had a national strategy and so even if a few states did well initially due to being more rural or having a better lockdown, people that refused to cooperate ensured that it would spread anyway. But those areas are probably further along the path to immunity as a result.

We're still dealing with a virus that, to date, has a fatality rate of less than 2.7% of all that are infected. Of those people have died, 8 out of 10 deaths have been from adults 65 and older. It's also apparent that we're going to have people around us who are asymptomatic for some time.

As long as we keep having this moronic stance of shutting the entire country down for a disease that we can control with simple safety measures, this thing is going to linger longer and we're going to be pushing the time further down the line where we can resume living our lives without wearings masks.

---

As I've been saying for some time, the virus is everywhere and sooner or later we are all going to be exposed no matter what. My workplace has taken extraordinary precautions against spread, and even with a skeleton staff on site we have had at least 17 confirmed cases. If my workplace can have spread, I assure you that Costco, Home Depot, and the supermarket are far riskier. Europe's lockdowns were much more severe than ours and they are seeing a surge in cases. Lockdowns don't appear to be the answer and in fact the WHO has come out against them: "We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus."

I am happy to see that some areas of our country are trying to live as normally as possible while being responsible. This is most evident in kids getting back to school and also seeing crowds at some CFB games. We must manage our lives with the virus, not pretend we can avoid it by hiding.

LMK5 said:

---

Death Thirteen said:

---

Big C said:

---

Coincidentally, if you add up the populations of the following five large European countries, that total just about equals the US population, so we can compare apples with apples. I'm talking about Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy and Spain.

We have a lot in common with those five countries: advanced health care, fairly heterogeneous populations, relative affluence and democratic governments. Additionally, Western Europe and the USA were each hit early and hard by the virus.

Population:

Those five: about 325 million
The U.S.A.: about 325 million

COVID cases:

Those five: about 3,265,000
The U.S.A.: about 8,000,000

COVID deaths:

Those five: aeatbout 157,000
The U.S.A.: about 220,000

Current COVID status:

Those five: the virus is surging
The U.S.A.: the virus is surging

Conclusion:

Until there's a reliable vaccine, SARS-CoV-2 is just flat-out going to have its way with any population that is not TOTALLY concentrated on suppressing it, but you can make it better, or you can make it worse. Europe hasn't done all that well against it. The US, even worse. We could've done better.

---

My conclusion is that there is no foolproof strategy. It's all about time in my opinion.

Even New Zealand, which has had only 25 deaths had thought to stamp it out had the virus come back a second time without allowing anybody from outside their country to enter the country. To hope that we're gonna stamp this thing out is a fool's errand. It's too adaptable and willing to mutate. They're just prolonging the inevitable stage where people are going to have to build immunity. If they make it to a point where a dependable vaccine is developed, then their strategy will ultimately pay off, but only immunity whether acquired as nature intended or by vaccine is going to eradicate this thing (for a while). We never gave ourselves that chance because our country never had a national strategy and so even if a few states did well initially due to being more rural or having a better lockdown, people that refused to cooperate ensured that it would spread anyway. But those areas are probably further along the path to immunity as a result.

We're still dealing with a virus that, to date, has a fatality rate of less than 2.7% of all that are infected. Of those people have died, 8 out of 10 deaths have been from adults 65 and older. It's also apparent that we're going to have people around us who are asymptomatic for some time.

As long as we keep having this moronic stance of shutting the entire country down for a disease that we can control with simple safety measures, this thing is going to linger longer and we're going to be pushing the time further down the line where we can resume living our lives without wearings masks.

---

As I've been saying for some time, the virus is everywhere and sooner or later we are all going to be exposed no matter what. My workplace has taken extraordinary precautions against spread, and even with a skeleton staff on site we have had at least 17 confirmed cases. If my workplace can have spread, I assure you that Costco, Home Depot, and the supermarket are far riskier. Europe's lockdowns were much more severe than ours and they are seeing a surge in cases. Lockdowns don't appear to be the answer and in fact the WHO has come out against them: "We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus."

I am happy to see that some areas of our country are trying to live as normally as possible while being responsible. This is most evident in kids getting back to school and also seeing crowds at some CFB games. We must manage our lives with the virus, not pretend we can avoid it by hiding.

---

Any sort of lockdown in a country like the US (or a European country) is just a delay tactic to calm the spread so the hospitals don't get overwhelmed. I don't see how, as a civil society, we can let ourselves get past that point, people dying on gurneys outside the ICU and such. That said, the only time we have been near that point was in April and then only in a few areas.

I believe we should try and lead as normal a life as possible (still using mask/distancing precautions and mass testing/tracing), up until we seem to be headed to the "overwhelming" level. At that point, what can you do except shut down?

Every few months that somebody doesn't get the virus, they stand a better chance. People fare much better now than they would've six months ago. Six months from now, as lots of people will likely be getting vaccinated, much better still.

We need to use common sense, stay focused and follow the science. The moment this thing got politicized, common sense (on both sides) got lost in the shuffle.

Big C said:

---

LMK5 said:

---

Death Thirteen said:

---

Big C said:

---

Coincidentally, if you add up the populations of the following five large European countries, that total just about equals the US population, so we can compare apples with apples. I'm talking about Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy and Spain.

We have a lot in common with those five countries: advanced health care, fairly heterogeneous populations, relative affluence and democratic governments. Additionally, Western Europe and the USA were each hit early and hard by the virus.

Population:

Those five: about 325 million
The U.S.A.: about 325 million

COVID cases:

Those five: about 3,265,000
The U.S.A.: about 8,000,000

COVID deaths:

Those five: aeatbout 157,000
The U.S.A.: about 220,000

Current COVID status:

Those five: the virus is surging
The U.S.A.: the virus is surging

Conclusion:

Until there's a reliable vaccine, SARS-CoV-2 is just flat-out going to have its way with any population that is not TOTALLY concentrated on suppressing it, but you can make it better, or you can make it worse. Europe hasn't done all that well against it. The US, even worse. We could've done better.

---

My conclusion is that there is no foolproof strategy. It's all about time in my opinion.

Even New Zealand, which has had only 25 deaths had thought to stamp it out had the virus come back a second time without allowing anybody from outside their country to enter the country. To hope that we're gonna stamp this thing out is a fool's errand. It's too adaptable and willing to mutate. They're just prolonging the inevitable stage where people are going to have to build immunity. If they make it to a point where a dependable vaccine is developed, then their strategy will ultimately pay off, but only immunity whether acquired as nature intended or by vaccine is going to eradicate this thing (for a while). We never gave ourselves that chance because our country never had a national strategy and so even if a few states did well initially due to being more rural or having a better lockdown, people that refused to cooperate ensured that it would spread anyway. But those areas are probably further along the path to immunity as a result.

We're still dealing with a virus that, to date, has a fatality rate of less than 2.7% of all that are infected. Of those people have died, 8 out of 10 deaths have been from adults 65 and older. It's also apparent that we're going to have people around us who are asymptomatic for some time.

As long as we keep having this moronic stance of shutting the entire country down for a disease that we can control with simple safety measures, this thing is going to linger longer and we're going to be pushing the time further down the line where we can resume living our lives without wearings masks.

---

As I've been saying for some time, the virus is everywhere and sooner or later we are all going to be exposed no matter what. My workplace has taken extraordinary precautions against spread, and even with a skeleton staff on site we have had at least 17 confirmed cases. If my workplace can have spread, I assure you that Costco, Home Depot, and the supermarket are far riskier. Europe's lockdowns were much more severe than ours and they are seeing a surge in cases. Lockdowns don't appear to be the answer and in fact the WHO has come out against them: "We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus."

I am happy to see that some areas of our country are trying to live as normally as possible while being responsible. This is most evident in kids getting back to school and also seeing crowds at some CFB games. We must manage our lives with the virus, not pretend we can avoid it by hiding.

---

Any sort of lockdown in a country like the US (or a European country) is just a delay tactic to calm the spread so the hospitals don't get overwhelmed. I don't see how, as a civil society, we can let ourselves get past that point, people dying on gurneys outside the ICU and such. That said, the only time we have been near that point was in April and then only in a few areas.

I believe we should try and lead as normal a life as possible (still using mask/distancing precautions and mass testing/tracing), up until we seem to be headed to the "overwhelming" level. At that point, what can you do except shut down?

Every few months that somebody doesn't get the virus, they stand a better chance. People fare much better now than they would've six months ago. Six months from now, as lots of people will likely be getting vaccinated, much better still.

We need to use common sense, stay focused and follow the science. The moment this thing got politicized, common sense (on both sides) got lost in the shuffle.

---

Well said.

"The moment this thing got politicized, common sense (on both sides) got lost in the shuffle."

False equivalency argument. The politicization of the issue by POTUS had deadly consequences. I'm not sure you can say that with regard to a theory that the "other side" politicized the virus.