jaylen: why is shocky doing a headstand on the court, does he really think he's got a better yoga/meditation practice than me plus more stomach core strength?

jabari: that boy is not right in the head...hmmm, there's something just nor right about him...that's just messed up, he thinks every curvy brunette yoga female with a flat stomach on earth wants to have sex with him

t-wall: what the ****?

congrats to the bird man on getting picked as the #56 selection in the 2017 nba draft


bird (his nickname among the guys is the "old man") incurred back, shoulder, feet, ankles & concussion injuries during his time in berkeley but he's battled back & showed up at nba pre draft workouts as an elite shooter, guys who can shoot the rock thru the airspace with nothing but net got a chance to get minted in the nba (that's a priortized/valued skill, just ask alan crabbe about his $75 million dollar contract in portland)

jabari, you brought credibility to the cal basketball program (read the 1st post of the monster) at a critical juncture & your leaving berkeley with a degree from the #1 public (#3 overall) university in the world...you were my 1st mcdonalds all american recruit

let it fly, birdman, let it fly with nothing but love (good luck getting moms to do your laundry from beantown)

[video=youtube;EHkozMIXZ8w][/video]

cal's monster class (2013)#:bluecarrot::bluecarrot::bluecarrot::bluecarrot::bluecarrot:

14 PAC-12 players drafted in the 2017 draft

dfresh;842848449 said:

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14 PAC-12 players drafted in the 2017 draft

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pac 12=conference of champions

dfresh, what's your take on the #1 ranked play in the 2017 class deandre ayton getting his entire poverty stricken family in the bahamas relocated (they would have zero funds/credit cards, etc. to do so otherwise) by an arizona booster (not a donor) to phoenix so the once ncca ineligible ayton can be closer to tuscon & get academically eligible at hillcrest prep academy which subcontracts its so called academic component to an online charter school in gilbert that allows him to have other students & adults take his classes for him to get his up gpa cleared by the ncca before he plays for the donut boy for a season?

if he blows out his knee like ray smith, is he just gonna be another uneducated 2.5 gpa dumb azz on the streets with no clear future?

bear down (without academic integrity, a player's program)#

Shocky1;842848450 said:

---

pac 12=conference of champions

dfresh, what's your take on the #1 ranked play in the 2017 class deandre ayton getting his entire poverty stricken family in the bahamas relocated (they would have zero funds/credit cards, etc. to do so otherwise) by an arizona booster (not a donor) to phoenix so the once ncca ineligible ayton can be closer to tuscon & get academically eligible at hillcrest prep academy which subcontracts its so called academic component to an online charter school in gilbert that allows him to have other students & adults take his classes for him to get his up gpa cleared by the ncca before he plays for the donut boy for a season?

if he blows out his knee like ray smith, is he just gonna be another uneducated 2.5 gpa dumb azz on the streets with no clear future?

bear down (without academic integrity, a player's program)#

---

What exactly is your point? As you say, he comes from nothing. And he is a tremendously skilled basketball player who probably has gotten little to no education up to this point. What should he be doing? Perhaps he should go to Australia and turn pro right away instead of messing with the college system. But otherwise, it all makes sense and it is not hurting anyone.

Sluggo

sluggo, your ability to rationalize cheating/criminal behavior is remarkable, arizona is not playing by the same rules as cal

ayton is inarticulate to an extreme & got zero academic ambition, he's never going to attend any classes in tucson or read any books or **** like that, he should just go overseas for a year & get legally paid while developing his trade (and hoping he doesn't get injured)...and arizona would compete ethically in the pac 12 against other actual institutions of higher learning like cal & stanford with a level playing field

if you told me you've spent time in prison i would believe you (you got the mindset of those behind bars, "who's it hurting?")

cheating is for losers#:nono:

Shocky1;842848454 said:

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sluggo, your ability to rationalize cheating/criminal behavior is remarkable, arizona is not playing by the same rules as cal

ayton is inarticulate to an extreme & got zero academic ambition, he's never going to attend any classes in tucson or read any books or **** like that, he should just go overseas for a year & get legally paid while developing his trade (and hoping he doesn't get injured)...and arizona would compete ethically in the pac 12 against other actual institutions of higher learning like cal & stanford with a level playing field

if you told me you've spent time in prison i would believe you (you got the mindset of those behind bars, "who's it hurting?")

cheating is for losers#:nono:

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Shock: See one of my comments on McNeill, who inspired the recognition that, to put it uglily, The current staff's extraordinary recruiting efforts are proving that there are plenty of good combination real-students/extraordinary-players/high-character guys who can/will/want-to swim in the currents of our great university, for Cal to be able to compete for the National Championship on a regular basis. I'm guessing also that the staff's excellence extends also to coaching (from the many different perspectives that are on this extraordinary staff), such that the main question at this point is to what extent other schools and the Association are going to want to pick them off at such a rate as to make achieving the consistency necessary for such sustained success a real chore to achieve.

mike, pathologically dfresh & sluggo don't seem to care that when cal & arizona play this upcoming season that the wildcats are gonna start a big deandre ayton who is a highly paid dumbl azz (just like chance comanche who basically was flunking out which is almost impossible to do at an academically mediocre school like arizona that promotes underage drinking & that got basically zero admission requirements) vs the bears two big marcus lee & the king who are balancing basketball with writing 30+ page intellectual papers

literally the dumbest person i've met during my time in the desert graduated from the arizona law school & then she couldn't pass the state bar exam after taking the test multiple times...yeah it's harder to get a dog license in pima county than to get accepted at arizonaork:

cheating is for losers (like lee & paula)#:rant

sneakerhead#:bravo

Shocky1;842848450 said:

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pac 12=conference of champions

dfresh, what's your take on the #1 ranked play in the 2017 class deandre ayton getting his entire poverty stricken family in the bahamas relocated (they would have zero funds/credit cards, etc. to do so otherwise) by an arizona booster (not a donor) to phoenix so the once ncca ineligible ayton can be closer to tuscon & get academically eligible at hillcrest prep academy which subcontracts its so called academic component to an online charter school in gilbert that allows him to have other students & adults take his classes for him to get his up gpa cleared by the ncca before he plays for the donut boy for a season?

if he blows out his knee like ray smith, is he just gonna be another uneducated 2.5 gpa dumb azz on the streets with no clear future?

bear down (without academic integrity, a player's program)#

---

Do you want me to say I'm sorry?

I love your speculation and I am not oblivious to what goes on in recruiting. At the end of the day, I like seeing good kids succeed. Ayton by all accounts is a good kid, who comes from nothing, and is trying to do whatever he can to make something of himself and his family.

BTW, Ray Smith is still on scholarship. *Waits for comment about how doomed his future is because he will be a graduate of Arizona and not Cal*

Shock, have at it: Oregon's Kavell Bigby-Williams Played All Season Under Criminal Investigation For Sexual Assault

dfresh, my daughters shay & taylor got friends at arizona that have told them that ray smith doesn't attend classes on a regular basis (he cheats & asks other students for papers) & that he's struggling to find himself in a life that doesn't include playing basketball...they think he's clinically depressed, i hope he earns a diploma (one that is backed by actual academic work & not sympathy looking the other way grading) for his own sake so he can pay bills in the future

to his credit smith has not taken peds like alonzo trier or raped a teammate's sister like elliott pitts but don't kid yourself he's actually doing any serious academic work either

bear down#

dfresh;842848516 said:

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Do you want me to say I'm sorry?

I love your speculation and I am not oblivious to what goes on in recruiting. At the end of the day, I like seeing good kids succeed. Ayton by all accounts is a good kid, who comes from nothing, and is trying to do whatever he can to make something of himself and his family.

BTW, Ray Smith is still on scholarship. *Waits for comment about how doomed his future is because he will be a graduate of Arizona and not Cal*

---

I'm with Shocky on this. Sorry for Ayton's plight, but college basketball is a not a right. There are basketball options outside the NCAA. He can do what guys like Terrance Ferguson, Brandon Jennings and Emanuel Mudiay did which is to play overseas for money and then on to the NBA. Smith remaining on scholarship is SOP and is done by all colleges. I hope Ray is able to graduate and make a good living. You do not have to graduate from Cal to make a good life although clearly Cal is superior in reputation and earning potential. Smith may be the beneficiary of Zona boosters that find him a job once he leaves U of A.

Lots of guys come from impoverished backgrounds etc. There are a lot of shenanigans being played by the major college hoops programs to get players. The prep schools, the hoops academies etc. The NBA could easily allow HS players to be draft eligible. The one and done program that the NBA seems determined to change is good for them but leaves guys like Ayton in a bad spot. However there are options overseas. Lets be real Arizona recruiting Ayton is about winning and not really about Ayton.

If anyone really thinks Ayton would not find someone to help him find a place to play overseas are just flat out kidding themselves. There will always be some handler out there that will find a home for a guy of his talent. I just do not like colleges and boosters trying to find a way to get a kid into a school for what we all know will be one season. And then finding a way to keep him eligible the first semester so he can play. I am all for helping guys like Ayton. He is a basketball talent, let the pros help him.

I agree with you, 6956, that this is an abuse of the system and the fact that the NCAA doesn't care a whit for anything but bigger TV contracts. HOWEVER, I'm not with Shocky in terms of his obsessive need to insult kids who are trying to make it. It is one thing to call out programs like Zona or Oregon and coaches such as Miller, Alford or Altman, but it's a whole different level to revel in calling 17 year olds "dumb azz" or uneducated, etc. Maybe, just maybe, Shocky will someday mature beyond the middle school playground.

Interestingly, I heard an interview with Jay Bilas yesterday. He is (in his own mind) all about the players and thinks the NCAA shouldn't have any rules like requiring players be full-time students or having gpa limits, or not allowing colleges to pay athletes whatever they want. In his view, college hoops is a professional sport and should be treated like one. Not sure where the "college" part comes in there.

UrsaMajor;842848540 said:

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I agree with you, 6956, that this is an abuse of the system and the fact that the NCAA doesn't care a whit for anything but bigger TV contracts. HOWEVER, I'm not with Shocky in terms of his obsessive need to insult kids who are trying to make it. It is one thing to call out programs like Zona or Oregon and coaches such as Miller, Alford or Altman, but it's a whole different level to revel in calling 17 year olds "dumb azz" or uneducated, etc. Maybe, just maybe, Shocky will someday mature beyond the middle school playground.

Interestingly, I heard an interview with Jay Bilas yesterday. He is (in his own mind) all about the players and thinks the NCAA shouldn't have any rules like requiring players be full-time students or having gpa limits, or not allowing colleges to pay athletes whatever they want. In his view, college hoops is a professional sport and should be treated like one. Not sure where the "college" part comes in there.

---

Bilas and other like to talk about how college basketball is a multi billion dollar business and, as such, athletes should receive their fair share of the value creation. The problem with the argument is that the value isn't being created by the players. The level of talent in the D-League and in professional leagues around the world is WAY higher than what we see at the D1 level and yet those entities are not worth billions of dollars and nor do they pay well. The value in NCAA basketball comes from the history, the traditions, the NCAA tournament, the game atmosphere, the context in which the game is played etc. All of that is missing in other leagues despite greater talent so very little of it is driven by the players and (in general) it really doesn't matter who the players are. If it was all about the players building value and developing brand equity, the D-League and other professonal leagues would be a much bigger deal. Without the NCAA, the member schools and the cultural context they've created over decades, their value is very little. That's why people watch college basketball and don't watch the D-League. I'm guessing Brandon Jennings and Terrance Ferguson would know what I mean.

UrsaMajor;842848540 said:

---

I agree with you, 6956, that this is an abuse of the system and the fact that the NCAA doesn't care a whit for anything but bigger TV contracts. HOWEVER, I'm not with Shocky in terms of his obsessive need to insult kids who are trying to make it. It is one thing to call out programs like Zona or Oregon and coaches such as Miller, Alford or Altman, but it's a whole different level to revel in calling 17 year olds "dumb azz" or uneducated, etc. Maybe, just maybe, Shocky will someday mature beyond the middle school playground.

Interestingly, I heard an interview with Jay Bilas yesterday. He is (in his own mind) all about the players and thinks the NCAA shouldn't have any rules like requiring players be full-time students or having gpa limits, or not allowing colleges to pay athletes whatever they want. In his view, college hoops is a professional sport and should be treated like one. Not sure where the "college" part comes in there.

---

My commentary and support for Shocky was related entirely to schools pursuit of guys that clearly are not students and the shady ways they recruit. His commentary and use of insults etc in description of players and coaches are his. As for Bilas and his views, I share his sentiments to some degree. But not entirely. Some compensation is likely needed. The NCAA basketball tournament is a huge cash cow. I can see the true power schools eventually abandoning the NCAA setting up their own "super league" and tournament for both football and basketball. Lets face it college hoops and football is not really about college anymore and has not been for a long time. It is "semi professional" and Bilas is simply recognizing it for what it really is.

6956bear;842848530 said:

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I'm with Shocky on this. Sorry for Ayton's plight, but college basketball is a not a right. There are basketball options outside the NCAA. He can do what guys like Terrance Ferguson, Brandon Jennings and Emanuel Mudiay did which is to play overseas for money and then on to the NBA. Smith remaining on scholarship is SOP and is done by all colleges. I hope Ray is able to graduate and make a good living. You do not have to graduate from Cal to make a good life although clearly Cal is superior in reputation and earning potential. Smith may be the beneficiary of Zona boosters that find him a job once he leaves U of A.

Lots of guys come from impoverished backgrounds etc. There are a lot of shenanigans being played by the major college hoops programs to get players. The prep schools, the hoops academies etc. The NBA could easily allow HS players to be draft eligible. The one and done program that the NBA seems determined to change is good for them but leaves guys like Ayton in a bad spot. However there are options overseas. Lets be real Arizona recruiting Ayton is about winning and not really about Ayton.

If anyone really thinks Ayton would not find someone to help him find a place to play overseas are just flat out kidding themselves. There will always be some handler out there that will find a home for a guy of his talent. I just do not like colleges and boosters trying to find a way to get a kid into a school for what we all know will be one season. And then finding a way to keep him eligible the first semester so he can play. I am all for helping guys like Ayton. He is a basketball talent, let the pros help him.

---

Wholeheartedly agree with all of the above, actually. That being said in the mean time, Arizona is simply operating within the parameters of the current system. If it wasn't Arizona, it would have been Kansas or someone else. Any Arizona fan, or fan of a big time program, are not going to complain about having someone of Ayton's talent on the team.

Shocky - We have talked about the Pitts situation at length. I can't stress enough while I do not condone what happened, Miller never played him and was in a dificult situation that I think he handled in a fair manner. How would you compare that to what just came out about Bigby Williams at Oregon?

http://deadspin.com/oregons-kavell-bigby-williams-played-all-season-under-c-1796366051

I agree that players are exploited and deserve some form of compensation. However, the "super league" you talk about (btw, I agree that it is quite possible that this will happen) would end the concept of student-athlete entirely. Maybe what we will see is an analogy to research professorships. Research professors have appointments, but do not teach at all, just conduct research. Athlete students wouldn't go to class or actually enroll as students, they'd just be paid to play basketball.

btw, for the record I never thought you were on board w/ Shocky's puerile insults.

dfresh;842848552 said:

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Wholeheartedly agree with all of the above, actually. That being said in the mean time, Arizona is simply operating within the parameters of the current system. If it wasn't Arizona, it would have been Kansas or someone else. Any Arizona fan, or fan of a big time program, are not going to complain about having someone of Ayton's talent on the team.

Shocky - We have talked about the Pitts situation at length. I can't stress enough while I do not condone what happened, Miller never played him and was in a dificult situation that I think he handled in a fair manner. How would you compare that to what just came out about Bigby Williams at Oregon?

http://deadspin.com/oregons-kavell-bigby-williams-played-all-season-under-c-1796366051

---

Dana Altman and that Oregon program are corrupt, almost beyond compare.

dfresh;842848516 said:

---

Do you want me to say I'm sorry?

I love your speculation and I am not oblivious to what goes on in recruiting. At the end of the day, I like seeing good kids succeed. Ayton by all accounts is a good kid, who comes from nothing, and is trying to do whatever he can to make something of himself and his family.

BTW, Ray Smith is still on scholarship. *Waits for comment about how doomed his future is because he will be a graduate of Arizona and not Cal*

---

+1 for empathy for Ayton

TheSouseFamily;842848550 said:

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Bilas and other like to talk about how college basketball is a multi billion dollar business and, as such, athletes should receive their fair share of the value creation. The problem with the argument is that the value isn't being created by the players. The level of talent in the D-League and in professional leagues around the world is WAY higher than what we see at the D1 level and yet those entities are not worth billions of dollars and nor do they pay well. The value in NCAA basketball comes from the history, the traditions, the NCAA tournament, the game atmosphere, the context in which the game is played etc. All of that is missing in other leagues despite greater talent so very little of it is driven by the players and (in general) it really doesn't matter who the players are. If it was all about the players building value and developing brand equity, the D-League and other professonal leagues would be a much bigger deal. Without the NCAA, the member schools and the cultural context they've created over decades, their value is very little. That's why people watch college basketball and don't watch the D-League. I'm guessing Brandon Jennings and Terrance Ferguson would know what I mean.

---

Really good point

Shocky1;842848454 said:

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sluggo, your ability to rationalize cheating/criminal behavior is remarkable, arizona is not playing by the same rules as cal

ayton is inarticulate to an extreme & got zero academic ambition, he's never going to attend any classes in tucson or read any books or **** like that, he should just go overseas for a year & get legally paid while developing his trade (and hoping he doesn't get injured)...and arizona would compete ethically in the pac 12 against other actual institutions of higher learning like cal & stanford with a level playing field

if you told me you've spent time in prison i would believe you (you got the mindset of those behind bars, "who's it hurting?")

cheating is for losers#:nono:

---

This is the last straw: what you are saying about this kid is sicking. Again you hide behind your keyboard with these comments. Ayton is just trying to make a better life for himself. I hope he makes you eat your words, and graduates from AZ with honors. In the short term, he'll surely be killing Cal on the boards.

TheSouseFamily;842848550 said:

---

Bilas and other like to talk about how college basketball is a multi billion dollar business and, as such, athletes should receive their fair share of the value creation. The problem with the argument is that the value isn't being created by the players. The level of talent in the D-League and in professional leagues around the world is WAY higher than what we see at the D1 level and yet those entities are not worth billions of dollars and nor do they pay well. The value in NCAA basketball comes from the history, the traditions, the NCAA tournament, the game atmosphere, the context in which the game is played etc. All of that is missing in other leagues despite greater talent so very little of it is driven by the players and (in general) it really doesn't matter who the players are. If it was all about the players building value and developing brand equity, the D-League and other professonal leagues would be a much bigger deal. Without the NCAA, the member schools and the cultural context they've created over decades, their value is very little. That's why people watch college basketball and don't watch the D-League. I'm guessing Brandon Jennings and Terrance Ferguson would know what I mean.

---

This is a very good argument, and one that I've never heard articulated before...kudos

Sicking? Sickening?

You guys who constantly rail against Shocky are hilarious.

When someone says Ayton is "a good kid," what does that mean? I guess given what I've been told about him, he's reasonably ethical, a nice guy, etc. But obviously he doesn't have much interest in his own intellectual development. Of course, where he's from, maybe he doesn't have any ability to do so, unless he gets books from somewhere and teaches himself a la Abe Lincoln. I guess some of this is also on his parents, who I presume are also poor and not very well educated, and therefore don't have the ability to see and or persuade him about what might be best for his future.

Which brings us back to the question of student/athletes, and whether someone should actually be able to major in being an athlete, if that's where their talent lies. I have emotional sympathy for that idea, but I'm not sure intellectually how to bring it about. What body of knowledge or critical reasoning ability are you going to be able to test in someone who is majoring in basketball?

Ultimately, this is to some extent the NBA's fault. College basketball would still make money from its fan base among the schools' alumni, even were it not serving as the primary minor league for the association. But the focus on one-and-dones, and who is going to the next level, etc., has resulted in the ability of Calipari, Miller, Altman, etc. to simply approach their college teams as training grounds for the NBA, and have basically no concern with their players as students, other than keeping them eligible until they leave. Ideally, you would have no one-and-dones in college, but I don't see any way to adjust the admission standards to do that, if every school is not willing to do so, and the powers probably won't be. So I'm willing to accept that Cal just has to do the best it can, with an uneven playing field, and try to win despite that. It will be that much sweeter if we can.

ccajon;842848572 said:

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This is the last straw: what you are saying about this kid is sicking. Again you hide behind your keyboard with these comments. Ayton is just trying to make a better life for himself. I hope he makes you eat your words, and graduates from AZ with honors. In the short term, he'll surely be killing Cal on the boards.

---

I need to call bull **** on this. Shocky may be and do a lot of things but he certainly doesn't HIDE BEHIND HIS KEY BOARD. Unlike most other posters, Shocky posts pics of himself and his exact seat position court side at CAL games. That would hardly be considered hiding. He has strong opinions which he likes to share. I have no problem with that. If you do, simply don't read his posts. I highly doubt he's spray painting them on the side of your house.

To the posters who are saying Ayton is just using the system as it stands and trying to get his family ahead: That's like saying that because I live in San Jose, and our police force size is way down, it's OK for someone to burglarize my house, just because there's a decent chance they won't be caught. Unless the burglar is completely pathological, he's just trying to make a living, and taking the chance that he won't be caught. What the burglar and Ayton are doing may be something they can get away with, but that doesn't mean it's morally right. Just to be snarky, that's the kind of reasoning you get on a message board that has too many lawyers on it.

ccajon, do you really believe that Ayton will be attending any classes in Az's 2nd semester? Don't bet the house - that's seems a fool's bet.

Jeff82;842848630 said:

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When someone says Ayton is "a good kid," what does that mean? I guess given what I've been told about him, he's reasonably ethical, a nice guy, etc. But obviously he doesn't have much interest in his own intellectual development. Of course, where he's from, maybe he doesn't have any ability to do so, unless he gets books from somewhere and teaches himself a la Abe Lincoln. I guess some of this is also on his parents, who I presume are also poor and not very well educated, and therefore don't have the ability to see and or persuade him about what might be best for his future.

Which brings us back to the question of student/athletes, and whether someone should actually be able to major in being an athlete, if that's where their talent lies. I have emotional sympathy for that idea, but I'm not sure intellectually how to bring it about. What body of knowledge or critical reasoning ability are you going to be able to test in someone who is majoring in basketball?

Ultimately, this is to some extent the NBA's fault. College basketball would still make money from its fan base among the schools' alumni, even were it not serving as the primary minor league for the association. But the focus on one-and-dones, and who is going to the next level, etc., has resulted in the ability of Calipari, Miller, Altman, etc. to simply approach their college teams as training grounds for the NBA, and have basically no concern with their players as students, other than keeping them eligible until they leave. Ideally, you would have no one-and-dones in college, but I don't see any way to adjust the admission standards to do that, if every school is not willing to do so, and the powers probably won't be. So I'm willing to accept that Cal just has to do the best it can, with an uneven playing field, and try to win despite that. It will be that much sweeter if we can.

---

Not every one and done is poor or from a bad academic background. Last night at the NBA draft we saw Lonzo Ball, T J Leaf, Zach Collins, Lauri Markanen, Johnathon Isaac and even De'Aaron Fox drafted. All seem to be bright well spoken young men that also happen to be very good basketball players. Some other kids from seemingly less fortunate backgrounds as well. Collins was recruited by Cal. Opportunity is what it is. I have no idea on Ayton. Good kid? Probably. The NCAA has guidelines that Colleges are supposed to follow when recruiting players. Failure to adhere to the rules is supposed to land the offending program in some trouble. It is not up to the NCAA to make sure that every potential player get a free ride to ply his basketball skills for any college.

Some schools choose to "bend" the rules for wins and money. That is their choice. I sympathize with kids like Ayton. Great potential as a basketball player but possibly lacking the necessary skills to be a college student. So what to do? These super high level "recruits" are known to the NBA. They scout these kids from very early. They want these kids, then rescend the current rule regarding draft eligibility and let these phenoms enter the draft. They do not really want to go to college anyway. If not good enough they go D League or overseas until they are. I really hate that colleges are being used by the NBA to train and babysit kids for a year or two. Open up the draft rules. Enter whenever you want. Lets quit the charade currently underway. If you want these kids as a University then fine. Just recruit within the rules. Go outside the rules you should face major penalties. Like multiple year bans from postseason, return of any postseason monies earned while said recruit was on campus, 1 year suspensions for coaches, serious reductions in scholarships say to 9, even suspension of programs for longtime or repeat offenders.

We already know that Kentucky will be good again. They will likely lose another 3 plus players to the draft. Calipari is using this rule to very good advantage. That is fine. That is the rule. But do not cheat for players. Cheating should be dealt with very harshly. The NBA wants to change the rule to 2 years. That will likely hurt a guy like Ayton even more. Schools would be less likely to recruit high academic risks knowing it is much more difficult to keep them eligible for 3 semesters than just 1. 2 years in college is fine, but allow these phenoms to enter the draft after HS.

graguna;842848648 said:

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I need to call bull **** on this. Shocky may be and do a lot of things but he certainly doesn't HIDE BEHIND HIS KEY BOARD. Unlike most other posters, Shocky posts pics of himself and his exact seat position court side at CAL games. That would hardly be considered hiding. He has strong opinions which he likes to share. I have no problem with that. If you do, simply don't read his posts. I highly doubt he's spray painting them on the side of your house.

---

I think Shocky is great; he's the reason I'm on this board. But that doesn't mean that criticism of his vicious ad hominem attacks on a lot of kids who don't deserve it is bull****, or, for some reason, shouldn't be expressed -- and I say that also knowing that Shocky really does mean those thinks in a lighthearted way (not to be confused with what I consider to be his much more justifiable attacks on, for example, coaches' justifications of sexual assault, or programs' conspiring to deprive kids of a real education with the false promise of guaranteed NBA success for all, when such success is enjoyed in fact only by a few); because I don't think that Shocky in any way really knows (or maybe even cares) how those kids who are the subject of these vicious attacks receive them.

mikecohen;842848673 said:

---

I think Shocky is great; he's the reason I'm on this board. But that doesn't mean that criticism of his vicious ad hominem attacks on a lot of kids who don't deserve it is bull****, or, for some reason, shouldn't be expressed -- and I say that also knowing that Shocky really does mean those thinks in a lighthearted way (not to be confused with what I consider to be his much more justifiable attacks on, for example, coaches' justifications of sexual assault, or programs' conspiring to deprive kids of a real education with the false promise of guaranteed NBA success for all, when such success is enjoyed in fact only by a few); because I don't think that Shocky in any way really knows (or maybe even cares) how those kids who are the subject of these vicious attacks receive them.

---

My bullshit comment had nothing to do with criticism of his attack on kids intelligence or lack there of. It was in response to the accusation that he hides behind his computer. That is simply not true.

graguna;842848677 said:

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My bullshit comment had nothing to do with criticism of his attack on kids intelligence or lack there of. It was in response to the accusation that he hides behind his computer. That is simply not true.

---

graguna, i'm always available to transparently & openly talk to anybody who wants to converse with me in person, i'm at every cal basketball game 45 minutes early for the early warm ups...usually (at least on weekends) taylor is with me & we're very friendly people in a dumb azz sort of way

it's always fun to talk about cal basketball & hear people's opinions/insights, i always got time for new friends




building a championship cal basketball program requires a village of passionate crazy azz fans (let's do this)#:wave:wave:wave:wave

I think the NBA should basically require 18-year-olds to make a choice: go to college and go for four years, or don't go to college and get your training through the D-League or by playing professionally oversees. The NCAA should then make the penalties for colleges that don't keep kids academically eligible much more severe. Would college ball lose some fans. Probably, in the form of the casual fans who follow it when they're not following the NBA. But college basketball would still be popular in places that don't have NBA teams and with alumni that want to root for teams whose players we can relate to as actual student-athletes, not rent-a-players.

TheSouseFamily;842848550 said:

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Bilas and other like to talk about how college basketball is a multi billion dollar business and, as such, athletes should receive their fair share of the value creation. The problem with the argument is that the value isn't being created by the players. The level of talent in the D-League and in professional leagues around the world is WAY higher than what we see at the D1 level and yet those entities are not worth billions of dollars and nor do they pay well. The value in NCAA basketball comes from the history, the traditions, the NCAA tournament, the game atmosphere, the context in which the game is played etc. All of that is missing in other leagues despite greater talent so very little of it is driven by the players and (in general) it really doesn't matter who the players are. If it was all about the players building value and developing brand equity, the D-League and other professonal leagues would be a much bigger deal. Without the NCAA, the member schools and the cultural context they've created over decades, their value is very little. That's why people watch college basketball and don't watch the D-League. I'm guessing Brandon Jennings and Terrance Ferguson would know what I mean.

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This article explains another approach to the NCAA monopoly on college basketball...it is an interesting idea that would definitely upset the apple cart...https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/59zejz/the-plot-to-disrupt-the-ncaa-with-a-pay-for-play-hbcu-basketball-league

Jeff82;842848686 said:

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I think the NBA should basically require 18-year-olds to make a choice: go to college and go for four years, or don't go to college and get your training through the D-League or by playing professionally oversees. The NCAA should then make the penalties for colleges that don't keep kids academically eligible much more severe. Would college ball lose some fans. Probably, in the form of the casual fans who follow it when they're not following the NBA. But college basketball would still be popular in places that don't have NBA teams and with alumni that want to root for teams whose players we can relate to as actual student-athletes, not rent-a-players.

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I couldn't agree more, but believe this is a ship that has sailed. At the very least why not the NFL equivalent so that a student athlete could not come out for the first three years.

Shocky1;842848473 said:

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mike, pathologically dfresh & sluggo don't seem to care that when cal & arizona play this upcoming season that the wildcats are gonna start a big deandre ayton who is a highly paid dumbl azz (just like chance comanche who basically was flunking out which is almost impossible to do at an academically mediocre school like arizona that promotes underage drinking & that got basically zero admission requirements) vs the bears two big marcus lee & the king who are balancing basketball with writing 30+ page intellectual papers

[COLOR="#FF0000"]literally the dumbest person i've met during my time in the desert graduated from the arizona law school & then she couldn't pass the state bar exam after taking the test multiple times..[/COLOR].yeah it's harder to get a dog license in pima county than to get accepted at arizonaork:

cheating is for losers (like lee & paula)#:rant

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WHEW!!! I'm relieved to find out someone else is behind me on your list...