Cal Falls At Stanford In Regular-Season Finale

Jeff82 said:

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Pasternak is not doing much better than us. 16-14 overall, 9-10 in conference.

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Jeff82 said:

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The jury is still out on him. He was only 47-75 at Kennesaw State before going to South Florida, where this is his first season. At this point, the only coach I would rather have than Madsen is Gates, who we should have hired from Cleveland State. That ship has sailed, given what he has done at Missouri.

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bearsandgiants said:

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westcoastdude said:

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The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.

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Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.

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4thGenCal said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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westcoastdude said:

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The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.

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Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.

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Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.

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HoopDreams said:

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4thGenCal said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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westcoastdude said:

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The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.

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Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.

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Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.

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Tyson only missed one game. It was Kennedy's hand injury that really impacted this team. I think he would have made the difference in 3+ games

I'm not sure what the impact Askew had besides providing depth, but Okofor really hurt. Larson is a warrior and provides needed minutes, but he is so overmatched against P6 bigs that it's sometimes hard to watch.

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barsad said:

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As usual 4thGenCal is spot on with the analysis. Personally I've already moved on from the "whys" of this season, all these micro-events are already historical footnotes. Like 4thGenCal, I am mystified that we've signed one point guard for next year. Every time I bring this up in other threads I get, "We'll get the other three starters from the portal," but come on guys, it's not actually a magic portal that pops out instant hoops stars to make a tournament-quality team!
I don't know enough about Xs and Os to say whether Madsen is good at it or not, I just know Ws and Ls. He has set the bar at 13, now he's got to go higher. But right now, with one recruit signed, I don't see the path to get there.

My friend who's a Duke fan reminded me that we're going to face these two monsters at Cameron next year:
Maluach
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39666849/khaman-maluach-top-big-man-2024-class-commits-duke
Flagg


We don't want to be embarrassed against these two super-frosh phenoms, let's pick up some of our own ASAP.

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4thGenCal said:

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HoopDreams said:

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4thGenCal said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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westcoastdude said:

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The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.

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Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.

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Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.

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Tyson only missed one game. It was Kennedy's hand injury that really impacted this team. I think he would have made the difference in 3+ games

I'm not sure what the impact Askew had besides providing depth, but Okofor really hurt. Larson is a warrior and provides needed minutes, but he is so overmatched against P6 bigs that it's sometimes hard to watch.

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Agreed - but Tyson was on an emotional roller coaster (completely understandable) as to whether He should have taken the Kansas offer when the delay was going on and it did impact his preparation during that time. The Kennedy injury (good correction) was the one that really impacted the team (3-4 games for sure). Hard to know with Askew - but the team has not had an effective point/ball handler who is a true pass first player. Tyson can certainly show flashes at directing the team - but that is not his most effective position. Askew could have given the team some steady minutes and allowed Cone even Tyson to get some needed rest minutes. Players for the most part listened to him and He really wanted to improve his on court leadership. ND has flashes of impact but will be very interesting if He returns. Good young man, has not developed as quickly as hoped. Spot on assessment for Larson and Curtis as well, both currently very limited. NIL amount of raise will dictate the quality of incoming recruits.

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HoopDreams said:

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Sluggo, remind me what you thought early on about Okofor

I remember think he had poor team defense fundamentals but it could be coached up (like Kelly before him who also came in with the same poor defense)

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Jeff82 said:

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IMHO, you guys are reinforcing my point. Abdur-Rahim is having a good season at South Florida, but only had one good season at Kennesaw State before going to Florida. Gates is struggling this year, but was 25-10 and made the tournament last year. Pasternack, who a lot of people wanted instead of Madsen, is 16-14 at UCSB, and 9-10 in the Big West.

I don't think you can tell much about any coach from a one-year record, which is why I'm not that unhappy with Madsen, despite the last three games. The proof is going to be in who Madsen can recruit going forward, and how he alters what he's doing each year based on the material he has. One of Fox's biggest faults, other than being a complete ******* to his players, is that he did very little to alter his approach, IMHO, based on the hand he was dealt.

I have hopes that Madsen will be good on that score, having come from the Monty tree. That was one of Monty's strengths, being able to adjust what he was doing to best fit the talent he had available.

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