Wilcox has 2 weeks, that's it.

11,454 Views | 85 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by 82gradDLSdad
KoreAmBear
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calumnus said:

71Bear said:

oskidunker said:

A friend who donates a lot of money wrote to Jim Knowlton abut his concerns about Cal football. This was the response. "everything is looking up for Cal football. " I-am glad to hear that.
Is that a surprise?

This is the guy who hired Fox and thought he was doing Cal a favor. He has no understanding whatsoever regarding how to run an athletic department.

My suggestion…….

Take a nap and set the alarm for 2029. He should be gone by then…..




It wasnt just that he hired Mark Fox. Here is a reminder:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/29/cal-hires-mark-fox-well-that-was-fast-perhaps-a-little-too-fast/

LOL:

More often than not, a flawed search ends in a bad hire.
This was a flawed search.
Maybe the Bears got lucky.

dimitrig
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KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

71Bear said:

oskidunker said:

A friend who donates a lot of money wrote to Jim Knowlton abut his concerns about Cal football. This was the response. "everything is looking up for Cal football. " I-am glad to hear that.
Is that a surprise?

This is the guy who hired Fox and thought he was doing Cal a favor. He has no understanding whatsoever regarding how to run an athletic department.

My suggestion…….

Take a nap and set the alarm for 2029. He should be gone by then…..




It wasnt just that he hired Mark Fox. Here is a reminder:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/29/cal-hires-mark-fox-well-that-was-fast-perhaps-a-little-too-fast/

LOL:

More often than not, a flawed search ends in a bad hire.
This was a flawed search.
Maybe the Bears got lucky.



Dgoldnbaer
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A women's volleyball pit - now there's progress!
Dgoldnbaer
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Happy as bleep you don't handle our recruiting!
txwharfrat
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ducky23 said:

KenBurnski said:

At this point I'm not sure what Wilcox actually brings to the HC role. His team is regressing in all phases. His assistant coach hires have gotten progressively worse each season.
I don't think its a stretch to say that any previous success Wilcox had at Cal was solely due to Deruyter/Alexander.


That and Dykes' recruits on defense.
Bobodeluxe
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txwharfrat said:

ducky23 said:

KenBurnski said:

At this point I'm not sure what Wilcox actually brings to the HC role. His team is regressing in all phases. His assistant coach hires have gotten progressively worse each season.
I don't think its a stretch to say that any previous success Wilcox had at Cal was solely due to Deruyter/Alexander.


That and Dykes' recruits on defense.
Ooh. OOH! Now you have crossed the BI line in sand.
Nasal Mucus Goldenbear
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heartofthebear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

oskidunker said:

Sather Tower said:

oskidunker said:

Knowlton has not extended Wilcox contract. End of Story.
https://bearinsider.com/s/1052/justin-wilcox-agrees-to-new-contract-through-2023
So its good until 2023. Old news. No extension thiis year. We pay two years. Better than Wyking.

Here's how you make lots of money from Cal.

  • Get hired as head coach and do a mediocre job.
  • That gets you an extension
  • Do poorly enough to get fired and bought out.

Cash in at the job you really wanted.
Rinse and repeat for Cal.
Isn't this what we've been doing?
That is on the money. Mediocrity does get you a raise and extension at Cal football. Case in point, even at this advanced stage of his tenure, if he manages in '22 to go:

6-6 or even 5-7 overall record - This will not be deemed mandating dismissal (but a "promising, hard-fought improvement" over the previous 2 years; at Cal your previous failures lower the standard by which you are judged). Admin will take a look-and-see approach until the end of '23 season.

7-5 overall record with a 5-4 conference record - This mediocrity will get him a raise and extension ("The first winning conference record in forever! The future of Cal football is looking up!").
heartofthebear
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Nasal Mucus Goldenbear said:

heartofthebear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

oskidunker said:

Sather Tower said:

oskidunker said:

Knowlton has not extended Wilcox contract. End of Story.
https://bearinsider.com/s/1052/justin-wilcox-agrees-to-new-contract-through-2023
So its good until 2023. Old news. No extension thiis year. We pay two years. Better than Wyking.

Here's how you make lots of money from Cal.

  • Get hired as head coach and do a mediocre job.
  • That gets you an extension
  • Do poorly enough to get fired and bought out.

Cash in at the job you really wanted.
Rinse and repeat for Cal.
Isn't this what we've been doing?
That is on the money. Mediocrity does get you a raise and extension at Cal football. Case in point, even at this advanced stage of his tenure, if he manages in '22 to go:

6-6 or even 5-7 overall record - This will not be deemed mandating dismissal (but a "promising, hard-fought improvement" over the previous 2 years; at Cal your previous failures lower the standard by which you are judged). Admin will take a look-and-see approach until the end of '23 season.

7-5 overall record with a 5-4 conference record - This mediocrity will get him a raise and extension ("The first winning conference record in forever! The future of Cal football is looking up!").
What's worse is that the extension never really buys Cal anything. Tedford was worse after his extension, so was Dykes and so has been Wilcox.
calumnus
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heartofthebear said:

Nasal Mucus Goldenbear said:

heartofthebear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

oskidunker said:

Sather Tower said:

oskidunker said:

Knowlton has not extended Wilcox contract. End of Story.
https://bearinsider.com/s/1052/justin-wilcox-agrees-to-new-contract-through-2023
So its good until 2023. Old news. No extension thiis year. We pay two years. Better than Wyking.

Here's how you make lots of money from Cal.

  • Get hired as head coach and do a mediocre job.
  • That gets you an extension
  • Do poorly enough to get fired and bought out.

Cash in at the job you really wanted.
Rinse and repeat for Cal.
Isn't this what we've been doing?
That is on the money. Mediocrity does get you a raise and extension at Cal football. Case in point, even at this advanced stage of his tenure, if he manages in '22 to go:

6-6 or even 5-7 overall record - This will not be deemed mandating dismissal (but a "promising, hard-fought improvement" over the previous 2 years; at Cal your previous failures lower the standard by which you are judged). Admin will take a look-and-see approach until the end of '23 season.

7-5 overall record with a 5-4 conference record - This mediocrity will get him a raise and extension ("The first winning conference record in forever! The future of Cal football is looking up!").
What's worse is that the extension never really buys Cal anything. Tedford was worse after his extension, so was Dykes and so has been Wilcox.


Holmoe's contract was extended through 2022 after the 2000 season, year 4 when he went 3-8, 2-6 in PAC-12 play.

"Over the last four years, head coach Tom Holmoe has tirelessly rebuilt the infrastructure of the Cal Football program, putting a solid foundation in place for long-term success on the field. During his tenure, Cal's recruiting efforts have steadily improved, including three straight nationally ranked classes…"

"Tom Holmoe is the type of person and the type of coach we want here at the University of California," said Chancellor Robert Betndahl. "We believe in him and the direction of our football program."

Cal then lost 10 straight games before winning the last game against winless Rutgers.

While Holmoe had said he would resign and walk away from his contract if he was not successful in 2001, in the end he had to be fired and he and his lawyer demanded and received full payment for 2002.
82gradDLSdad
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Cal needs to set a precedent for firing their HC after year three no matter what (almost). The most exciting time for being a Cal football fan is when we get a new coach. With this info that extensions lead to worse results the decision to fire after year 3 is made easy. "We'd like to thank coach Smith for all his hard work and we think he's built a great foundation. Our heavy reliance on analytics tells us it's time to move on."
71Bear
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calumnus said:

heartofthebear said:

Nasal Mucus Goldenbear said:

heartofthebear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

oskidunker said:

Sather Tower said:

oskidunker said:

Knowlton has not extended Wilcox contract. End of Story.
https://bearinsider.com/s/1052/justin-wilcox-agrees-to-new-contract-through-2023
So its good until 2023. Old news. No extension thiis year. We pay two years. Better than Wyking.

Here's how you make lots of money from Cal.

  • Get hired as head coach and do a mediocre job.
  • That gets you an extension
  • Do poorly enough to get fired and bought out.

Cash in at the job you really wanted.
Rinse and repeat for Cal.
Isn't this what we've been doing?
That is on the money. Mediocrity does get you a raise and extension at Cal football. Case in point, even at this advanced stage of his tenure, if he manages in '22 to go:

6-6 or even 5-7 overall record - This will not be deemed mandating dismissal (but a "promising, hard-fought improvement" over the previous 2 years; at Cal your previous failures lower the standard by which you are judged). Admin will take a look-and-see approach until the end of '23 season.

7-5 overall record with a 5-4 conference record - This mediocrity will get him a raise and extension ("The first winning conference record in forever! The future of Cal football is looking up!").
What's worse is that the extension never really buys Cal anything. Tedford was worse after his extension, so was Dykes and so has been Wilcox.


Holmoe's contract was extended through 2022 after the 2000 season, year 4 when he went 3-8, 2-6 in PAC-12 play.

"Over the last four years, head coach Tom Holmoe has tirelessly rebuilt the infrastructure of the Cal Football program, putting a solid foundation in place for long-term success on the field. During his tenure, Cal's recruiting efforts have steadily improved, including three straight nationally ranked classes…"

"Tom Holmoe is the type of person and the type of coach we want here at the University of California," said Chancellor Robert Betndahl. "We believe in him and the direction of our football program."

Cal then lost 10 straight games before winning the last game against winless Rutgers.

While Holmoe had said he would resign and walk away from his contract if he was not successful in 2001, in the end he had to be fired and he and his lawyer demanded and received full payment for 2002.
Revisionist history….

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Holmoe-to-coach-3-more-games-Holmoe-resigns-as-2860953.php

Tom Holmoe resigned prior to the end of the '01 season effective at the end of the season.

Personal note to calumnus: always remember that it is kinda hard to make stuff up in the era of the internet…..

Bobodeluxe
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Since the dawn of the interwebs, I don't believe anyone has ever successfully made stuff up.
heartofthebear
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82gradDLSdad said:

Cal needs to set a precedent for firing their HC after year three no matter what (almost). The most exciting time for being a Cal football fan is when we get a new coach. With this info that extensions lead to worse results the decision to fire after year 3 is made easy. "We'd like to thank coach Smith for all his hard work and we think he's built a great foundation. Our heavy reliance on analytics tells us it's time to move on."
I tend to agree with this at this point. But I will admit that, up until now, I argued long and hard for stability in the coaching ranks, which is part of the reason to extend contracts.

However, since the office of the Cal AD clearly has no ability to gauge a coaches performance both before and after an extension, it saves Cal money to simply fire rather than extend.

Here is the situation when I would extend a contract: I would extend it when the HC has, within 3 years, shown the ability to compete consistently and successfully in the pac-12 conference. In year 3 the coach has to have a winning pac-12 record, no blowouts against the team, blowouts against the worse teams in the conference (generally this is WSU, OSU, Colorado and Arizona), balanced offense and no weak units on the team and a solid if not consistent assistant coaching pool. The coach also has to have very little off-field incidents with the team, including academic issues. And finally, the coach has to show the ability to consistently recruit at all positions at a level near the top 25 in the nation.

These are the conditions required to extend. But, keep in mind that, under Tedford, the HC pretty much fullfilled these condtions but still couldn't improve with the extention. Of course, we really don't need improvement if a coach is meeting these standards. We just need them to maintain these standards and JT couldn't. Part of JTs problem was that some of his best assistance left after 2005, including OC Cortez. Based on the above standards, technically JT failed because he had trouble with OSU. But that is being picky.

These conditions may make it hard to find a coach. But I think we need to change our approach on coaches. I think we should be hiring successful lower level coaches that are underpaid away from place like the Mid-American Conference etc. It is true that such places do not include the difficult academic factor but that does not mean we can't find some matches. Heck we could hire coaches away from the Ivy League.

Cal generally has better resources to pay football salaries than most of these places. The way to know a good coach is that they immediately and dramatically upgrade their teams performance wherever they go. This happens all over the country at all levels every year. We need to form a watch list of these and interview off of this list based on what type of person, football and background would make a good match for Cal and the pac-12. I think Troy Taylor is an example of this and we should try to hire him right away...even midseason if things get worse.
82gradDLSdad
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heartofthebear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Cal needs to set a precedent for firing their HC after year three no matter what (almost). The most exciting time for being a Cal football fan is when we get a new coach. With this info that extensions lead to worse results the decision to fire after year 3 is made easy. "We'd like to thank coach Smith for all his hard work and we think he's built a great foundation. Our heavy reliance on analytics tells us it's time to move on."
I tend to agree with this at this point. But I will admit that, up until now, I argued long and hard for stability in the coaching ranks, which is part of the reason to extend contracts.

However, since the office of the Cal AD clearly has no ability to gauge a coaches performance both before and after an extension, it saves Cal money to simply fire rather than extend.

Here is the situation when I would extend a contract: I would extend it when the HC has, within 3 years, shown the ability to compete consistently and successfully in the pac-12 conference. In year 3 the coach has to have a winning pac-12 record, no blowouts against the team, blowouts against the worse teams in the conference (generally this is WSU, OSU, Colorado and Arizona), balanced offense and no weak units on the team and a solid if not consistent assistant coaching pool. The coach also has to have very little off-field incidents with the team, including academic issues. And finally, the coach has to show the ability to consistently recruit at all positions at a level near the top 25 in the nation.

These are the conditions required to extend. But, keep in mind that, under Tedford, the HC pretty much fullfilled these condtions but still couldn't improve with the extention. Of course, we really don't need improvement if a coach is meeting these standards. We just need them to maintain these standards and JT couldn't. Part of JTs problem was that some of his best assistance left after 2005, including OC Cortez. Based on the above standards, technically JT failed because he had trouble with OSU. But that is being picky.

These conditions may make it hard to find a coach. But I think we need to change our approach on coaches. I think we should be hiring successful lower level coaches that are underpaid away from place like the Mid-American Conference etc. It is true that such places do not include the difficult academic factor but that does not mean we can't find some matches. Heck we could hire coaches away from the Ivy League.

Cal generally has better resources to pay football salaries than most of these places. The way to know a good coach is that they immediately and dramatically upgrade their teams performance wherever they go. This happens all over the country at all levels every year. We need to form a watch list of these and interview off of this list based on what type of person, football and background would make a good match for Cal and the pac-12. I think Troy Taylor is an example of this and we should try to hire him right away...even midseason if things get worse.


Yep. Lower level HCs who show improvement right off the bat. They'll come to Cal because it's a promotion and the pay will be more. They get 3 years.
heartofthebear
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82gradDLSdad said:

heartofthebear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Cal needs to set a precedent for firing their HC after year three no matter what (almost). The most exciting time for being a Cal football fan is when we get a new coach. With this info that extensions lead to worse results the decision to fire after year 3 is made easy. "We'd like to thank coach Smith for all his hard work and we think he's built a great foundation. Our heavy reliance on analytics tells us it's time to move on."
I tend to agree with this at this point. But I will admit that, up until now, I argued long and hard for stability in the coaching ranks, which is part of the reason to extend contracts.

However, since the office of the Cal AD clearly has no ability to gauge a coaches performance both before and after an extension, it saves Cal money to simply fire rather than extend.

Here is the situation when I would extend a contract: I would extend it when the HC has, within 3 years, shown the ability to compete consistently and successfully in the pac-12 conference. In year 3 the coach has to have a winning pac-12 record, no blowouts against the team, blowouts against the worse teams in the conference (generally this is WSU, OSU, Colorado and Arizona), balanced offense and no weak units on the team and a solid if not consistent assistant coaching pool. The coach also has to have very little off-field incidents with the team, including academic issues. And finally, the coach has to show the ability to consistently recruit at all positions at a level near the top 25 in the nation.

These are the conditions required to extend. But, keep in mind that, under Tedford, the HC pretty much fullfilled these condtions but still couldn't improve with the extention. Of course, we really don't need improvement if a coach is meeting these standards. We just need them to maintain these standards and JT couldn't. Part of JTs problem was that some of his best assistance left after 2005, including OC Cortez. Based on the above standards, technically JT failed because he had trouble with OSU. But that is being picky.

These conditions may make it hard to find a coach. But I think we need to change our approach on coaches. I think we should be hiring successful lower level coaches that are underpaid away from place like the Mid-American Conference etc. It is true that such places do not include the difficult academic factor but that does not mean we can't find some matches. Heck we could hire coaches away from the Ivy League.

Cal generally has better resources to pay football salaries than most of these places. The way to know a good coach is that they immediately and dramatically upgrade their teams performance wherever they go. This happens all over the country at all levels every year. We need to form a watch list of these and interview off of this list based on what type of person, football and background would make a good match for Cal and the pac-12. I think Troy Taylor is an example of this and we should try to hire him right away...even midseason if things get worse.


Yep. Lower level HCs who show improvement right off the bat. They'll come to Cal because it's a promotion and the pay will be more. They get 3 years.
Works for me. Why aren't we running things?
calumnus
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71Bear said:

calumnus said:

heartofthebear said:

Nasal Mucus Goldenbear said:

heartofthebear said:

CAL4LIFE said:

oskidunker said:

Sather Tower said:

oskidunker said:

Knowlton has not extended Wilcox contract. End of Story.
https://bearinsider.com/s/1052/justin-wilcox-agrees-to-new-contract-through-2023
So its good until 2023. Old news. No extension thiis year. We pay two years. Better than Wyking.

Here's how you make lots of money from Cal.

  • Get hired as head coach and do a mediocre job.
  • That gets you an extension
  • Do poorly enough to get fired and bought out.

Cash in at the job you really wanted.
Rinse and repeat for Cal.
Isn't this what we've been doing?
That is on the money. Mediocrity does get you a raise and extension at Cal football. Case in point, even at this advanced stage of his tenure, if he manages in '22 to go:

6-6 or even 5-7 overall record - This will not be deemed mandating dismissal (but a "promising, hard-fought improvement" over the previous 2 years; at Cal your previous failures lower the standard by which you are judged). Admin will take a look-and-see approach until the end of '23 season.

7-5 overall record with a 5-4 conference record - This mediocrity will get him a raise and extension ("The first winning conference record in forever! The future of Cal football is looking up!").
What's worse is that the extension never really buys Cal anything. Tedford was worse after his extension, so was Dykes and so has been Wilcox.


Holmoe's contract was extended through 2022 after the 2000 season, year 4 when he went 3-8, 2-6 in PAC-12 play.

"Over the last four years, head coach Tom Holmoe has tirelessly rebuilt the infrastructure of the Cal Football program, putting a solid foundation in place for long-term success on the field. During his tenure, Cal's recruiting efforts have steadily improved, including three straight nationally ranked classes…"

"Tom Holmoe is the type of person and the type of coach we want here at the University of California," said Chancellor Robert Betndahl. "We believe in him and the direction of our football program."

Cal then lost 10 straight games before winning the last game against winless Rutgers.

While Holmoe had said he would resign and walk away from his contract if he was not successful in 2001, in the end he had to be fired and he and his lawyer demanded and received full payment for 2002.
Revisionist history….

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Holmoe-to-coach-3-more-games-Holmoe-resigns-as-2860953.php

Tom Holmoe resigned prior to the end of the '01 season effective at the end of the season.

Personal note to calumnus: always remember that it is kinda hard to make stuff up in the era of the internet…..




That was not the rest of the story. Yes he resigned on Nov 4, but Holmoe coached the rest of the season. When the season ended his lawyer got involved and he got paid for the remainder of his contract despite publicly "resigning" a month earlier as you linked. He "resigned" but did not want to forgo payment on the remainder of his contract. Well you can't do that. It is a contract. His public resignation on the 4th was not legally binding. Cal would not want to force him to coach the next year. Everyone wanted to move on and there were good feelings for him, so in the end Cal actually, technically, fired him and paid him off rather than litigate, he was paid for 2002. I will look for links, but it was part of the 2002 AD budget.
82gradDLSdad
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heartofthebear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

heartofthebear said:

82gradDLSdad said:

Cal needs to set a precedent for firing their HC after year three no matter what (almost). The most exciting time for being a Cal football fan is when we get a new coach. With this info that extensions lead to worse results the decision to fire after year 3 is made easy. "We'd like to thank coach Smith for all his hard work and we think he's built a great foundation. Our heavy reliance on analytics tells us it's time to move on."
I tend to agree with this at this point. But I will admit that, up until now, I argued long and hard for stability in the coaching ranks, which is part of the reason to extend contracts.

However, since the office of the Cal AD clearly has no ability to gauge a coaches performance both before and after an extension, it saves Cal money to simply fire rather than extend.

Here is the situation when I would extend a contract: I would extend it when the HC has, within 3 years, shown the ability to compete consistently and successfully in the pac-12 conference. In year 3 the coach has to have a winning pac-12 record, no blowouts against the team, blowouts against the worse teams in the conference (generally this is WSU, OSU, Colorado and Arizona), balanced offense and no weak units on the team and a solid if not consistent assistant coaching pool. The coach also has to have very little off-field incidents with the team, including academic issues. And finally, the coach has to show the ability to consistently recruit at all positions at a level near the top 25 in the nation.

These are the conditions required to extend. But, keep in mind that, under Tedford, the HC pretty much fullfilled these condtions but still couldn't improve with the extention. Of course, we really don't need improvement if a coach is meeting these standards. We just need them to maintain these standards and JT couldn't. Part of JTs problem was that some of his best assistance left after 2005, including OC Cortez. Based on the above standards, technically JT failed because he had trouble with OSU. But that is being picky.

These conditions may make it hard to find a coach. But I think we need to change our approach on coaches. I think we should be hiring successful lower level coaches that are underpaid away from place like the Mid-American Conference etc. It is true that such places do not include the difficult academic factor but that does not mean we can't find some matches. Heck we could hire coaches away from the Ivy League.

Cal generally has better resources to pay football salaries than most of these places. The way to know a good coach is that they immediately and dramatically upgrade their teams performance wherever they go. This happens all over the country at all levels every year. We need to form a watch list of these and interview off of this list based on what type of person, football and background would make a good match for Cal and the pac-12. I think Troy Taylor is an example of this and we should try to hire him right away...even midseason if things get worse.


Yep. Lower level HCs who show improvement right off the bat. They'll come to Cal because it's a promotion and the pay will be more. They get 3 years.
Works for me. Why aren't we running things?


Yah, why aren't we? I could fit co-football-GM into my busy retirement schedule.
 
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