I am personal friends with someone that has conducted "investigations" for HR at Cal involving harassment and abuse. I will just say that I disagree with anyone that would be so naive as to think that the IAD will actually bring to light what the investigators find, no matter how damaging.

Moreover, I find the implication that has been drawn of athletes of an individual sport having a higher propensity to being "unhappy" is spurious at best. Quite frankly, there can be unhappiness across the spectrum for all D-1 sports - - - including athletes involved in team sports where stakes might actually be higher given playing time and being drafted professionally.

To then leverage such an inference as a means to put the coaching style of a Cal head coach into perspective, is quite frankly, absurd. - - - That's one helluva jump that someone is making. In fact, It comes pretty close to blaming the victims, because you know, they have a propensity for being disproportionately "unhappy".

It's interesting to note that the Cal Executive Senior Associate Athletics Director, Chief of Staff and Senior Woman Administrator told a swimmer that there was nothing that she could do, following a head coach violating a federal privacy act when it came to the athlete's having their Crohn's disease disclosed to the entire team.

I'm sorry, but I really cant help anyone who thinks that disclosing someone's medical condition is a motivational tool used by a coach. - - - I dont care how many Championships they may have won.

That doesnt pass the smell test by any means.

DiabloWags said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

I have no idea (nor do any of you without some inside information) where McKeever is on the spectrum from motivational to abusive - the investigators get to figure that out.. But many of the comments made in this thread seem like utter BS in view of the soccer team investigation.

---

I am personal friends with someone that has conducted "investigations" for HR at Cal involving harassment and abuse. I will just say that I disagree with your post on a number of levels, including the assumption that you're making that the IAD will actually bring to light what the investigators find, no matter how damaging.

Moreover, I find the implication that you have drawn of athletes of an individual sport having a higher propensity to being "unhappy" is spurious at best. Quite frankly, there can be unhappiness across the spectrum for all D-1 sports (including athletes involved in team sports).

To then use that inference to leverage whether or not a Cal head coach was "appropriate" in their coaching style is quite frankly, absurd. That's one helluva jump you're making. Just as absurd as the Cal Chief of Staff and Director of Women's Sport, Jennifer Simon-P'Neill telling a swimmer that there was nothing that she could do, following a head coach violating a federal privacy act when it came to them having their Crohn's disease disclosed to the entire team.

I really cant help you if you think that disclosing someone's medical condition is a motivational tool.

---

You don't really know what was said by who - all you have is one-sided allegations which is exactly the position those that rushed to judgment had in the soccer coach's situation. You run a fools errand believing everything you read in a accusatory news article.

As for the rest of the inference stuff:

I'm not addressing what the IAD bring to light anywhere notwitstading what your friend has to say. Indeed, I didn't rely on the soccer investigator's report, which is not in the public domain at least where google will take me. However, you're welcome to read the actual case decision for all the accusations, etc. You don't need an investigator's report to know the coach got exonerated and certain players were kicked off the team.

The problem with your uniformed (and unsupported) opinion on which athletes are more adjusted is interesting considering the studies discussed on the pay site. Here is one: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/playing-individual-sports-associated-with-mental-health-struggles-in-kids-180980174/#.Ypjs7xAdH4w.gmail
For those of us who played D1 sports this is not a surprise.

As far as leveraging anything with McKeever, I said we need to wait for an investigation. Perhaps you friend could fill you in on the purpose of his job and investigations? The one hell of a jump being made is by people that everything you read in one newspaper article is fully accurate and in context. Clearly the media didn't exactly get it right in the soccer coach's case now did it?

DiabloWags said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Cal basically responded that the matter was under formal investigation. Sound familiar? And like Terry, McGuire had coached several star players, such as Alex Morgan, who did not discuss the matter publicly, and he is considered a successful coach, though not as successful as Terry.

---

Alex Morgan was still on the playing field.
Natalie Coughlan and Missy Franklin were not.
They've been removed from competitive swimming for years.

When news broke of the allegations against McGuire, Morgan had just made her National team comeback that same week. She was gearing up to make the Tokyo Olympic team and most likely did not believe that "discussing the matter publicly" was worth the risk to her focus, let alone financial and professional marketability.

---

I see we are narrowing things down to Alex Morgan. Can you name any players that McQuire had for his decades of coaching that publicly chose to voice their support for their coach, rather than in the investigation? It also good thing that you are blessed with omnipotent knowledge of what Morgan's motivations always are.

DiabloWags said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

You don't really know what was said by who - all you have is one-sided allegations which is exactly the position those that rushed to judgment had in the soccer coach's situation. You run a fools errand believing everything you read in a accusatory news article.

---

You're running a fool's errand thinking that I dont know anyone from the Cal women's swim team.
I'll just leave it at that.

---

Why the innuendo? Who do you know and what did they say.? For all I know you're bias to not wait for an investigation is driven by a personal relationship with an accuser. Or that they would say something completely different than what your are peddling. This is a real BS move. I'm willing to name names abbot the Lou matter - how about you?

CalGrad95 said:

---

Really great to see our Athletic Director approaching this with all of the gravity the situation requires.

Someone needs to fire his sorry behind right now.

“Current and former Cal swimmers and their parents expressed surprise and in some cases outrage that Knowlton was on Tuesday’s video call with approximately 30 parents and ended with Knowlton yelling, “Go Bears!””-What on earth?! https://t.co/r9oh0oSKgt

— Ben Parker (@slamdunk406) June 2, 2022

#Cal AD Jim Knowlton (@ADCalBears) told the families of Cal swimmers in a Zoom conference that the Teri McKeever investigation could take 6 months. Parents reportedly frustrated by the Zoom call, feeling it wasn’t well-organized. You cannot be serious!! https://t.co/ETBbQxUaPE

— Ben Parker (@slamdunk406) June 2, 2022

---

Totally unbelieveable and unacceptable that the McKeever investigation would take 6 months. Only at a bureaucratic and antiquated organization like Cal is that even possible. This investigation should be completed in days and McKeever should be gone by mid-June, if not sooner.

wifeisafurd said:

---

As someone who played on a team at Cal and having talked about the McKeever situation with some other players, we find a lot of the posts here insanely naive, even when very troubled by some of the charges leveled at McKeever.

As for the don't wait until the investigation and fire everyone,, we are stunned past swimmers would not get involved publicly crowd, we offer this:

The women's soccer coach was accused by over 24 present and former players of creating toxic and abusive atmosphere in a KTVU "investigative report" in November 2020. The allegations were similar to those against Terry, over a longer period and by more players, alleging reatment of verbal and emotional abuse, body shamming, favorites vs others, risking physical harm (injured players practicing), and oh yes, something that will not doubt come out with Terry, the coach accusing players of having too close a relationship with their parents. There was a lot of turnover, and multiple women say they were ignored or brushed off by the university administration when they complained. Parents of former Cal players also reached out to KTVU to share how their kids' experiences playing soccer at the university had painful, long-term effects on their entire families. The parents and KTVU even published letters to Jim Knowlton.

Cal basically responded that the matter was under formal investigation. Sound familiar? And like Terry, McGuire had coached several star players, such as Alex Morgan, who did not discuss the matter publicly, and he is considered a successful coach, though not as successful as Terry.

As far as I can tell there is no public copy of the investigative report. McGurie was exonerated. He still coaches the soccer team. My understanding is that the investigation labelled the players malcontents who were unable to handle reasonable constructive criticism (apparently the other players stood behind McGuire). COMPLAINING PLAYERS ON THE PRESENT TEAM WERE RELEASED FROM THE TEAM. One then filed a lawsuit, which the trial Judge found had no merit and dismissed the entire law suit. The language used by the Judge on the alleged body shaming is brutal.

I have no idea (nor do any of you without some inside information) where McKeever is on the spectrum from motivational to abusive - the investigators get to figure that out.. But many of the comments made in this thread seem like utter BS in view of the soccer team investigation. What seems weird to me is that both the flare-ups on the women's teams occurred during a period when there was a portal whereby athletes can transfer to a program in which they can have a better fit with the coach. That doesn't speak to whether McKeever is the kind of coach Cal wants, but it does make you wonder why these swimmers didn't leave. It also makes you wonder why a situation where a coach McQuire) was exonerated was allowed to get so out of control.

There are some differences. Players in team sports supposedly have a much better mental health outlook than those in individual sport, which makes the soccer flare-up harder to figure. There was one poster on the pay site who discussed that swimmers have a disproportionate number of mental issues. Even the greatest swimmer in our times, Phelps, has some real demons he deals with. It is a demanding and often lonely sport. Another poster noted "the Cal swimming program is trying to recruit swimmers who are in the top 1000th of the one percent - there are 175,000 female swimmers in high schools, and the top 5 teams in college take maybe 25 total. Probably less. There are only 14 scholarships on the team. So it is not as if they are regular kids who are perhaps looking for a supportive environment - it is not division 3 or high school or even regular college swimming - these are kids who are trying to be the very best in the world right now. They are going to have by the nature of that a different experience than the kids who are going to be college swimmers who are competing for a place on the podium of a conference, for example." Let me suggest some of you take a closer look at the faux Onion article above.

---

Your example of the "exoneration" of the soccer coach by Knowlton is less reassuring than you think it is.

My standard for behavior of a Cal coach is something higher than "not punishable in a court of law."

calumnus said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

As someone who played on a team at Cal and having talked about the McKeever situation with some other players, we find a lot of the posts here insanely naive, even when very troubled by some of the charges leveled at McKeever.

As for the don't wait until the investigation and fire everyone,, we are stunned past swimmers would not get involved publicly crowd, we offer this:

The women's soccer coach was accused by over 24 present and former players of creating toxic and abusive atmosphere in a KTVU "investigative report" in November 2020. The allegations were similar to those against Terry, over a longer period and by more players, alleging reatment of verbal and emotional abuse, body shamming, favorites vs others, risking physical harm (injured players practicing), and oh yes, something that will not doubt come out with Terry, the coach accusing players of having too close a relationship with their parents. There was a lot of turnover, and multiple women say they were ignored or brushed off by the university administration when they complained. Parents of former Cal players also reached out to KTVU to share how their kids' experiences playing soccer at the university had painful, long-term effects on their entire families. The parents and KTVU even published letters to Jim Knowlton.

Cal basically responded that the matter was under formal investigation. Sound familiar? And like Terry, McGuire had coached several star players, such as Alex Morgan, who did not discuss the matter publicly, and he is considered a successful coach, though not as successful as Terry.

As far as I can tell there is no public copy of the investigative report. McGurie was exonerated. He still coaches the soccer team. My understanding is that the investigation labelled the players malcontents who were unable to handle reasonable constructive criticism (apparently the other players stood behind McGuire). COMPLAINING PLAYERS ON THE PRESENT TEAM WERE RELEASED FROM THE TEAM. One then filed a lawsuit, which the trial Judge found had no merit and dismissed the entire law suit. The language used by the Judge on the alleged body shaming is brutal.

I have no idea (nor do any of you without some inside information) where McKeever is on the spectrum from motivational to abusive - the investigators get to figure that out.. But many of the comments made in this thread seem like utter BS in view of the soccer team investigation. What seems weird to me is that both the flare-ups on the women's teams occurred during a period when there was a portal whereby athletes can transfer to a program in which they can have a better fit with the coach. That doesn't speak to whether McKeever is the kind of coach Cal wants, but it does make you wonder why these swimmers didn't leave. It also makes you wonder why a situation where a coach McQuire) was exonerated was allowed to get so out of control.

There are some differences. Players in team sports supposedly have a much better mental health outlook than those in individual sport, which makes the soccer flare-up harder to figure. There was one poster on the pay site who discussed that swimmers have a disproportionate number of mental issues. Even the greatest swimmer in our times, Phelps, has some real demons he deals with. It is a demanding and often lonely sport. Another poster noted "the Cal swimming program is trying to recruit swimmers who are in the top 1000th of the one percent - there are 175,000 female swimmers in high schools, and the top 5 teams in college take maybe 25 total. Probably less. There are only 14 scholarships on the team. So it is not as if they are regular kids who are perhaps looking for a supportive environment - it is not division 3 or high school or even regular college swimming - these are kids who are trying to be the very best in the world right now. They are going to have by the nature of that a different experience than the kids who are going to be college swimmers who are competing for a place on the podium of a conference, for example." Let me suggest some of you take a closer look at the faux Onion article above.

---

Your example of the "exoneration" of the soccer coach by Knowlton is less reassuring than you think it is.

My standard for behavior of a Cal coach is something higher than "not punishable in a court of law."

---

Dude, you think it was Knowlton who exonerated the soccer coach? And you got three ignorant people to star you. UFB. The people on the paid site are right.

You really don't get this independent investigation thing. Knowlton and the Associate AD were also investigated. It is done by an independent investigators (who generally are former employment lawyers or law enforement) in a separate department under the Cal policy guidelines. Maybe you can catch-up with Diablo and he can have his anonymous friend take you trough the investigation process. Or you can read SVSH Policy Section V.A.5. and to the extent the Title 9 is not triggered. University policy on investigations in harassment cases.

So what is your standard for coaches?

What standard do you think the court applied?

wifeisafurd said:

---

calumnus said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

As someone who played on a team at Cal and having talked about the McKeever situation with some other players, we find a lot of the posts here insanely naive, even when very troubled by some of the charges leveled at McKeever.

As for the don't wait until the investigation and fire everyone,, we are stunned past swimmers would not get involved publicly crowd, we offer this:

The women's soccer coach was accused by over 24 present and former players of creating toxic and abusive atmosphere in a KTVU "investigative report" in November 2020. The allegations were similar to those against Terry, over a longer period and by more players, alleging reatment of verbal and emotional abuse, body shamming, favorites vs others, risking physical harm (injured players practicing), and oh yes, something that will not doubt come out with Terry, the coach accusing players of having too close a relationship with their parents. There was a lot of turnover, and multiple women say they were ignored or brushed off by the university administration when they complained. Parents of former Cal players also reached out to KTVU to share how their kids' experiences playing soccer at the university had painful, long-term effects on their entire families. The parents and KTVU even published letters to Jim Knowlton.

Cal basically responded that the matter was under formal investigation. Sound familiar? And like Terry, McGuire had coached several star players, such as Alex Morgan, who did not discuss the matter publicly, and he is considered a successful coach, though not as successful as Terry.

As far as I can tell there is no public copy of the investigative report. McGurie was exonerated. He still coaches the soccer team. My understanding is that the investigation labelled the players malcontents who were unable to handle reasonable constructive criticism (apparently the other players stood behind McGuire). COMPLAINING PLAYERS ON THE PRESENT TEAM WERE RELEASED FROM THE TEAM. One then filed a lawsuit, which the trial Judge found had no merit and dismissed the entire law suit. The language used by the Judge on the alleged body shaming is brutal.

I have no idea (nor do any of you without some inside information) where McKeever is on the spectrum from motivational to abusive - the investigators get to figure that out.. But many of the comments made in this thread seem like utter BS in view of the soccer team investigation. What seems weird to me is that both the flare-ups on the women's teams occurred during a period when there was a portal whereby athletes can transfer to a program in which they can have a better fit with the coach. That doesn't speak to whether McKeever is the kind of coach Cal wants, but it does make you wonder why these swimmers didn't leave. It also makes you wonder why a situation where a coach McQuire) was exonerated was allowed to get so out of control.

There are some differences. Players in team sports supposedly have a much better mental health outlook than those in individual sport, which makes the soccer flare-up harder to figure. There was one poster on the pay site who discussed that swimmers have a disproportionate number of mental issues. Even the greatest swimmer in our times, Phelps, has some real demons he deals with. It is a demanding and often lonely sport. Another poster noted "the Cal swimming program is trying to recruit swimmers who are in the top 1000th of the one percent - there are 175,000 female swimmers in high schools, and the top 5 teams in college take maybe 25 total. Probably less. There are only 14 scholarships on the team. So it is not as if they are regular kids who are perhaps looking for a supportive environment - it is not division 3 or high school or even regular college swimming - these are kids who are trying to be the very best in the world right now. They are going to have by the nature of that a different experience than the kids who are going to be college swimmers who are competing for a place on the podium of a conference, for example." Let me suggest some of you take a closer look at the faux Onion article above.

---

Your example of the "exoneration" of the soccer coach by Knowlton is less reassuring than you think it is.

My standard for behavior of a Cal coach is something higher than "not punishable in a court of law."

---

Dude, you really don't get this independent investigation thing. Knowlton and the Associate AD were also investigated. Maybe you can catch-up with Diablo and he can have his anonymous friend take you trough the investigation process. Or you can read SVSH Policy Section V.A.5. and to the extent the Title 9 is not triggered, its University policy on investigations in harassment cases.

So what is your stadard for coaches?

What standard do you think the court applied?

---

My standard is not "did her frequent use of a racial epithet to describe her charges' choices in music constitute unlawful harassment and racial discrimination."

I would fire a Cal coach for using a racial epithet period. But again, that is a very low standard. I don't even want my coaches criticizing the athletes' choices in clothing or music without using racial epithets. I want them building up and affirming their student athletes, helping them become stronger as people and as athletes. I want my coaches strongly aligned with the principles of the Positive Coaching Alliance.

Indiana fired Bobby Knight a generation ago. Old school abusive coaching, even if on this side of the law, is just a horrible fit for any school, but especially Cal in 2022.

DiabloWags said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

juarezbear said:

---

I'm not sure what was disorganized.about the call, but I'm sure the parents didn't like hearing the investigation will take 6 months.

---

Welcome to Berkeley bureaucracy.

---

The IAD is clearly in CYA mode.
I'm sending a letter to Chancellor Christ.
Cal's "response" to this is the poster child for everything you dont do in a matter like this.

---

Ding dong. The IADD is not doing the investigation. Munger Tolles, an outside law firm is conducting the investigation and reports directly to the Office of the Chancellor.

I'm sure Chancellor Christ will now doubt follow your learned guidance and rush to judgment based on allegations in a newspaper article.

wifeisafurd said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

juarezbear said:

---

I'm not sure what was disorganized.about the call, but I'm sure the parents didn't like hearing the investigation will take 6 months.

---

Welcome to Berkeley bureaucracy.

---

The IAD is clearly in CYA mode.
I'm sending a letter to Chancellor Christ.
Cal's "response" to this is the poster child for everything you dont do in a matter like this.

---

Ding dong. The IADD is not doing the investigation. Munger Tolles, an outside law firm is conducting the investigation and reports directly to the Office of the Chancellor.

I'm sure Chancellor Christ will now doubt follow your learned guidance and rush to judgment based on allegations in a newspaper article.

---

Diablo Wings is all-in on conviction before trial. Just read all of the posts. I understand why they're upset as the allegations are horrendous. Yes, the admin completely mishandled the Ted Agu tragedy, but that doesn't mean an appropriate process shouldn't take place in this instance.

juarezbear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

DiabloWags said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

juarezbear said:

---

I'm not sure what was disorganized.about the call, but I'm sure the parents didn't like hearing the investigation will take 6 months.

---

Welcome to Berkeley bureaucracy.

---

The IAD is clearly in CYA mode.
I'm sending a letter to Chancellor Christ.
Cal's "response" to this is the poster child for everything you dont do in a matter like this.

---

Ding dong. The IADD is not doing the investigation. Munger Tolles, an outside law firm is conducting the investigation and reports directly to the Office of the Chancellor.

I'm sure Chancellor Christ will now doubt follow your learned guidance and rush to judgment based on allegations in a newspaper article.

---

Diablo Wings is all-in on conviction before trial. Just read all of the posts. I understand why they're upset as the allegations are horrendous. Yes, the admin completely mishandled the Ted Agu tragedy, but that doesn't mean an appropriate process shouldn't take place in this instance.

---

That is a very good distinction. One can be unhappy with the way the administration addresses controversial matters and still want the players and coach to have their due process though an independent investigation.

calumnus said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

calumnus said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

As someone who played on a team at Cal and having talked about the McKeever situation with some other players, we find a lot of the posts here insanely naive, even when very troubled by some of the charges leveled at McKeever.

As for the don't wait until the investigation and fire everyone,, we are stunned past swimmers would not get involved publicly crowd, we offer this:

The women's soccer coach was accused by over 24 present and former players of creating toxic and abusive atmosphere in a KTVU "investigative report" in November 2020. The allegations were similar to those against Terry, over a longer period and by more players, alleging reatment of verbal and emotional abuse, body shamming, favorites vs others, risking physical harm (injured players practicing), and oh yes, something that will not doubt come out with Terry, the coach accusing players of having too close a relationship with their parents. There was a lot of turnover, and multiple women say they were ignored or brushed off by the university administration when they complained. Parents of former Cal players also reached out to KTVU to share how their kids' experiences playing soccer at the university had painful, long-term effects on their entire families. The parents and KTVU even published letters to Jim Knowlton.

Cal basically responded that the matter was under formal investigation. Sound familiar? And like Terry, McGuire had coached several star players, such as Alex Morgan, who did not discuss the matter publicly, and he is considered a successful coach, though not as successful as Terry.

As far as I can tell there is no public copy of the investigative report. McGurie was exonerated. He still coaches the soccer team. My understanding is that the investigation labelled the players malcontents who were unable to handle reasonable constructive criticism (apparently the other players stood behind McGuire). COMPLAINING PLAYERS ON THE PRESENT TEAM WERE RELEASED FROM THE TEAM. One then filed a lawsuit, which the trial Judge found had no merit and dismissed the entire law suit. The language used by the Judge on the alleged body shaming is brutal.

I have no idea (nor do any of you without some inside information) where McKeever is on the spectrum from motivational to abusive - the investigators get to figure that out.. But many of the comments made in this thread seem like utter BS in view of the soccer team investigation. What seems weird to me is that both the flare-ups on the women's teams occurred during a period when there was a portal whereby athletes can transfer to a program in which they can have a better fit with the coach. That doesn't speak to whether McKeever is the kind of coach Cal wants, but it does make you wonder why these swimmers didn't leave. It also makes you wonder why a situation where a coach McQuire) was exonerated was allowed to get so out of control.

There are some differences. Players in team sports supposedly have a much better mental health outlook than those in individual sport, which makes the soccer flare-up harder to figure. There was one poster on the pay site who discussed that swimmers have a disproportionate number of mental issues. Even the greatest swimmer in our times, Phelps, has some real demons he deals with. It is a demanding and often lonely sport. Another poster noted "the Cal swimming program is trying to recruit swimmers who are in the top 1000th of the one percent - there are 175,000 female swimmers in high schools, and the top 5 teams in college take maybe 25 total. Probably less. There are only 14 scholarships on the team. So it is not as if they are regular kids who are perhaps looking for a supportive environment - it is not division 3 or high school or even regular college swimming - these are kids who are trying to be the very best in the world right now. They are going to have by the nature of that a different experience than the kids who are going to be college swimmers who are competing for a place on the podium of a conference, for example." Let me suggest some of you take a closer look at the faux Onion article above.

---

Your example of the "exoneration" of the soccer coach by Knowlton is less reassuring than you think it is.

My standard for behavior of a Cal coach is something higher than "not punishable in a court of law."

---

Dude, you really don't get this independent investigation thing. Knowlton and the Associate AD were also investigated. Maybe you can catch-up with Diablo and he can have his anonymous friend take you trough the investigation process. Or you can read SVSH Policy Section V.A.5. and to the extent the Title 9 is not triggered, its University policy on investigations in harassment cases.

So what is your stadard for coaches?

What standard do you think the court applied?

---

My standard is not "did her frequent use of a racial epithet to describe her charges' choices in music constitute unlawful harassment and racial discrimination."

I would fire a Cal coach for using a racial epithet period. But again, that is a very low standard. I don't even want my coaches criticizing the athletes' choices in clothing or music without using racial epithets. I want them building up and affirming their student athletes, helping them become stronger as people and as athletes. I want my coaches strongly aligned with the principles of the Positive Coaching Alliance.

Indiana fired Bobby Knight a generation ago. Old school abusive coaching, even if on this side of the law, is just a horrible fit for any school, but especially Cal in 2022.

---

My standard is someone should not continue to mistake facts. There is not one scintilla of evidence the soccer coach used racial epithets or for that matter discussed music choices. After completely BSing that is was Knowlton that exonerated the soccer coach, you then say that your standard by which the soccer coach should have been gauged is different than what a court would do, and when I ask what that standard is, you makeup some BS, probably libelous accusation.

Oh wait, you say "her" meaning I presume we are moving the goal posts to talk about McKeever, and never mind the drivel in your prior post. McKeever, in fact, is accused on using a racial epithet once (at least that is what is said in the initial article) and dinging rap music enjoyed by certain swimmers, again from the initial article.Here is a summary of the accusations against O'Niel and brush off from the AD, complete with letters. Almost all identical to accusations made against McKeever.
ttps://www.ktvu.com/news/more-athletes-describe-years-of-mistreatment-by-cal-soccer-coach

The point being they are accusations, not findings. You are the kind of guy due process was invented for.
I don't think anyone, regardless of coaching standards, will condone the behavior alleged against McKeever. That doesn't mean the allegations against McKeever are true ,and she should get to defend herself in the investigation, just as the accusers will get their chance to tell their story. If McKeever is found to have committed the allegations - at least the troubling ones - she will be terminated IMO and Cal will send a message that this conduct is unacceptable. But I'm prepared to wait for the investigation to play out, rather than draw conclusions and demand action now like you. Assuming the serous allegations are true, and assuming that conduct was known or ignored, McKeever could take others with her. The problem once again is you're assuming things you don't know, but what appears in a one-sided newspaper article (that is repeated in more newspaper articles), to be gospel, and then making pronouncements. The soccer coach thing was alleged to have gone on for a long time with similar misconduct, the players and parents published the letters they sent to JK, and on and on. And basically the underlying accusations were found lacking by both an independent Investigative team and where relevant on certain matters, by a federal and then a state court (it should be noted that many claims failed on technical grounds). You seem to start with the assumption bad conduct occurred with both sets of coaches, but what if that is not an accurate assumption? Are you still firing them, and then opening your wallet up to pay huge damages?

Golden One said:

---

CalGrad95 said:

---

Really great to see our Athletic Director approaching this with all of the gravity the situation requires.

Someone needs to fire his sorry behind right now.

“Current and former Cal swimmers and their parents expressed surprise and in some cases outrage that Knowlton was on Tuesday’s video call with approximately 30 parents and ended with Knowlton yelling, “Go Bears!””-What on earth?! https://t.co/r9oh0oSKgt

— Ben Parker (@slamdunk406) June 2, 2022

#Cal AD Jim Knowlton (@ADCalBears) told the families of Cal swimmers in a Zoom conference that the Teri McKeever investigation could take 6 months. Parents reportedly frustrated by the Zoom call, feeling it wasn’t well-organized. You cannot be serious!! https://t.co/ETBbQxUaPE

— Ben Parker (@slamdunk406) June 2, 2022

---

Totally unbelieveable and unacceptable that the McKeever investigation would take 6 months. Only at a bureaucratic and antiquated organization like Cal is that even possible. This investigation should be completed in days and McKeever should be gone by mid-June, if not sooner.

---

How soon would the public hanging be? Yet another response that betrays a judge and jury position. I work at a large corporation and believe me, an investigation like this takes time. I'd rather see a thorough investigation that will stand up in court than a slipshod, biased investigation favoring either side.

juarezbear said:

---

How soon would the public hanging be? Yet another response that betrays a judge and jury position. I work at a large corporation and believe me, an investigation like this takes time. I'd rather see a thorough investigation that will stand up in court than a slipshod, biased investigation favoring either side.

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Let me ask you something, if it only takes one allegation of abuse to be confirmed in order to prove a termination for cause, how long do you think that should take? Do you really believe AD Knowlton when he says that it is a standard HR investigation that should take six months?

Moreover, did Coach McKeever not violate federal privacy law when she divulged the medical condition (Crohn's Disease) of a Cal swimmer to the entire team, without permission from said swimmer?

Isnt that a line that a veteran coach like Coach McKeever should have never crossed?

DiabloWags said:

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juarezbear said:

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Diablo Wings is all-in on conviction before trial. Just read all of the posts. I understand why they're upset as the allegations are horrendous. Yes, the admin completely mishandled the Ted Agu tragedy, but that doesn't mean an appropriate process shouldn't take place in this instance.

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Cool story.
I've never posted anything about not giving McKeever due-process.

What I do find interesting is how there are posters here that actually have confidence in conducting an "investigation" that takes 6 months and literally hangs our swimmer's and their swim program out to "dry" in massive limbo. Or do you really have that much confidence in an AD that yells "Go Bears" at the end of a Zoom Meeting with the parents of Cal swimmers?

Why would it take 6 months to confirm a single one of these allegations for McKeever to be fired with cause?
Why would the Cal AD not want to develop a long term plan for Cal swimmers that includes being surrounded by high quality coaching and positive role models and share that with the parents?

But I guess there will always be naive Kal Kool-Aid drinkers who have confidence in an AD and his staff (Eugene Whitlock) who during the Zoom call, couldnt even answer the question of who will be training the swimmers for events such as the U.S. Championships the first week of August.

Seems like a pretty basic question that the AD should be prepared for.
But he couldnt speak to that.

Or do you believe that Jesse Moore who was named an assistant coach in April, is capable?
A guy from Dartmouth who had 1 year of HC experience during Covid?
Oh please.

Can you even begin to imagine how a recruiting trip will go on June 15th?

Hi, I'm Jesse and I would love to talk to you about the great opportunity to continue your swim career with the Cal Women's Swim Team!

When asked about the status of the team and Teri, he shouts . . . Go Bears!

Then, he refuses to answer any other questions on the advice of the Cal athletic department attorneys.

Never mind what percentage of the Team winds up in the transfer portal come Fall if this "investigation" is still ongoing.

Think Canadian Olympic Gold medalist Maggie Mac Neil is really going to follow through with her announcement in late March and swim for Cal next season as a grad student with this dumpster fire still going?

Get real.

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I am getting real and trying to do so In a reasoned manner. I'm responding to the tone of all your posts which imply that you know she's guilty and needs to go asap. I agree that the allegations are horrendous and if validated by an investigation should be grounds for dismissal. My reality is I've seen both the good and the bad when it comes to investigative reporting. I work in a business where allegations are thrown around in a very haphazard way. On an almost daily basis, I've seen careers destroyed by false or very one sided allegations in the press or industry trade papers when an accuser has caught the ear of a journalist with an agenda or sees an opportunity to make a name for themself. On the other hand, I've also seen journalists come forward and expose true monsters like Harvey Weinstein who have behaved badly and skated by because no one wanted to kill the Golden Goose. On the Knowlton topic, I agree that he is completely tone deaf and am at a loss at what he's achieved to earn a new contract. He's the not on par with the worst AD (Bockrath) ever nor certainly the best (Gladstone) either. It's clear this disaster has a personal ring for you and I'm sure that's very stressful and upsetting - you even mentioned that it would be a mistake for anyone to assume you don't know anybody in the swim program. A situation like this is calamitous for a program regardless of the investigation's outcome and as others have said, this next year at least will likely be a wash. I would like to see the investigation done as quickly and efficiently as possible for everybody's sake. I'd be very surprised if TM ever takes the pool deck at Cal again. I hope Knowlton and the big swim donors are putting together a list of potential coaches as we type. It would be typiCAL to see our AD wait and around and start from scratch when the report comes in rather than be nimble and ahead of the game. I am an ex Cal athlete and have great love for the school and our athletic teams. I have a particular pride in all of our aquatic sports which have all achieved great success in the pool and the classroom. Frankly, aquatics have been our best consistently performing sports for decades. Our women's water polo team had a bad coach for a long time and suffered as a result. We even missed out on Maggie Steffins because of him. Simmons has the team on an upswing but it's been an uphill battle. Bottom line is I hope and pray the women's swim team can bounce back quickly and reassume its position as a marquee program.

calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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As someone who played on a team at Cal and having talked about the McKeever situation with some other players, we find a lot of the posts here insanely naive, even when very troubled by some of the charges leveled at McKeever.

As for the don't wait until the investigation and fire everyone,, we are stunned past swimmers would not get involved publicly crowd, we offer this:

The women's soccer coach was accused by over 24 present and former players of creating toxic and abusive atmosphere in a KTVU "investigative report" in November 2020. The allegations were similar to those against Terry, over a longer period and by more players, alleging reatment of verbal and emotional abuse, body shamming, favorites vs others, risking physical harm (injured players practicing), and oh yes, something that will not doubt come out with Terry, the coach accusing players of having too close a relationship with their parents. There was a lot of turnover, and multiple women say they were ignored or brushed off by the university administration when they complained. Parents of former Cal players also reached out to KTVU to share how their kids' experiences playing soccer at the university had painful, long-term effects on their entire families. The parents and KTVU even published letters to Jim Knowlton.

Cal basically responded that the matter was under formal investigation. Sound familiar? And like Terry, McGuire had coached several star players, such as Alex Morgan, who did not discuss the matter publicly, and he is considered a successful coach, though not as successful as Terry.

As far as I can tell there is no public copy of the investigative report. McGurie was exonerated. He still coaches the soccer team. My understanding is that the investigation labelled the players malcontents who were unable to handle reasonable constructive criticism (apparently the other players stood behind McGuire). COMPLAINING PLAYERS ON THE PRESENT TEAM WERE RELEASED FROM THE TEAM. One then filed a lawsuit, which the trial Judge found had no merit and dismissed the entire law suit. The language used by the Judge on the alleged body shaming is brutal.

I have no idea (nor do any of you without some inside information) where McKeever is on the spectrum from motivational to abusive - the investigators get to figure that out.. But many of the comments made in this thread seem like utter BS in view of the soccer team investigation. What seems weird to me is that both the flare-ups on the women's teams occurred during a period when there was a portal whereby athletes can transfer to a program in which they can have a better fit with the coach. That doesn't speak to whether McKeever is the kind of coach Cal wants, but it does make you wonder why these swimmers didn't leave. It also makes you wonder why a situation where a coach McQuire) was exonerated was allowed to get so out of control.

There are some differences. Players in team sports supposedly have a much better mental health outlook than those in individual sport, which makes the soccer flare-up harder to figure. There was one poster on the pay site who discussed that swimmers have a disproportionate number of mental issues. Even the greatest swimmer in our times, Phelps, has some real demons he deals with. It is a demanding and often lonely sport. Another poster noted "the Cal swimming program is trying to recruit swimmers who are in the top 1000th of the one percent - there are 175,000 female swimmers in high schools, and the top 5 teams in college take maybe 25 total. Probably less. There are only 14 scholarships on the team. So it is not as if they are regular kids who are perhaps looking for a supportive environment - it is not division 3 or high school or even regular college swimming - these are kids who are trying to be the very best in the world right now. They are going to have by the nature of that a different experience than the kids who are going to be college swimmers who are competing for a place on the podium of a conference, for example." Let me suggest some of you take a closer look at the faux Onion article above.

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Your example of the "exoneration" of the soccer coach by Knowlton is less reassuring than you think it is.

My standard for behavior of a Cal coach is something higher than "not punishable in a court of law."

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Dude, you really don't get this independent investigation thing. Knowlton and the Associate AD were also investigated. Maybe you can catch-up with Diablo and he can have his anonymous friend take you trough the investigation process. Or you can read SVSH Policy Section V.A.5. and to the extent the Title 9 is not triggered, its University policy on investigations in harassment cases.

So what is your stadard for coaches?

What standard do you think the court applied?

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My standard is not "did her frequent use of a racial epithet to describe her charges' choices in music constitute unlawful harassment and racial discrimination."

I would fire a Cal coach for using a racial epithet period. But again, that is a very low standard. I don't even want my coaches criticizing the athletes' choices in clothing or music without using racial epithets. I want them building up and affirming their student athletes, helping them become stronger as people and as athletes. I want my coaches strongly aligned with the principles of the Positive Coaching Alliance.

Indiana fired Bobby Knight a generation ago. Old school abusive coaching, even if on this side of the law, is just a horrible fit for any school, but especially Cal in 2022.

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My standard is someone should not continue to mistake facts. There is not one scintilla of evidence the soccer coach used racial epithets or for that matter discussed music choices. After completely BSing that is was Knowlton that exonerated the soccer coach, you then say that your standard by which the soccer coach should have been gauged is different than what a court would do, and when I ask what that standard is, you makeup some BS, probably libelous accusation.

Oh wait, you say "her" meaning I presume we are moving the goal posts to talk about McKeever, and never mind the drivel in your prior post. McKeever, in fact, is accused on using a racial epithet once (at least that is what is said in the initial article) and dinging rap music enjoyed by certain swimmers, again from the initial article.Here is a summary of the accusations against O'Niel and brush off from the AD, complete with letters. Almost all identical to accusations made against McKeever.
ttps://www.ktvu.com/news/more-athletes-describe-years-of-mistreatment-by-cal-soccer-coach

The point being they are accusations, not findings. You are the kind of guy due process was invented for.
I don't think anyone, regardless of coaching standards, will condone the behavior alleged against McKeever. That doesn't mean the allegations against McKeever are true ,and she should get to defend herself in the investigation, just as the accusers will get their chance to tell their story. If McKeever is found to have committed the allegations - at least the troubling ones - she will be terminated IMO and Cal will send a message that this conduct is unacceptable. But I'm prepared to wait for the investigation to play out, rather than draw conclusions and demand action now like you. Assuming the serous allegations are true, and assuming that conduct was known or ignored, McKeever could take others with her. The problem once again is you're assuming things you don't know, but what appears in a one-sided newspaper article (that is repeated in more newspaper articles), to be gospel, and then making pronouncements. The soccer coach thing was alleged to have gone on for a long time with similar misconduct, the players and parents published the letters they sent to JK, and on and on. And basically the underlying accusations were found lacking by both an independent Investigative team and where relevant on certain matters, by a federal and then a state court (it should be noted that many claims failed on technical grounds). You seem to start with the assumption bad conduct occurred with both sets of coaches, but what if that is not an accurate assumption? Are you still firing them, and then opening your wallet up to pay huge damages?

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I don't know anything about the soccer coach except that you said they were exonerated in the investigation and in a court of law.

My comments about racial epithets and other racist statements were from the article about McKeever. I believe one said that was how she regularly referred to/disparaged rap music. However, if none of her swimmers are African American, did she violate any law? Could a white swimmer sue her for that and win?
Is "body shaming" calling a swimmer "fatso" actionable? Probably not.

My point is that being "exonerated" by a law firm or in a court of law does not mean that a "tough coach" is the right coach for Cal in 2022. I want coaches that follow positive coaching principles and no one claims that is McKeever.

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Missed point: you are already assuming the accusations are true based on a newspaper article.

I'm okay with not using legal standards for determining who you want as a coach; that said, you still have to follow employment law because coaches are employees. I think the concept of D1 coaches that never swear or show anger is fantasyland. Applying practices aimed at young youth like the Positive Coaching Alliance is beyond fantasy land and condescending to players who are adults. It is particularly inappropriate at the D1 level, and not at all what athletes with ambitions to play professionally or in the Olympics desire. And I bet almost every D1 athlete with ambitions will agree with me. Sometimes they want someone to kick their arse (which is a lot different than a coach who is an arsehole). They don't want participation prizes, they want honest assessments and be told how to improve. They want to win. The Positive Coaching Alliance is great for young kids. But even the board is full of coaches who are known to erupt and swear, because once you get to a high enough level, whatever improves performance matters. Even the PCA says you have to criticize, and unless you take today's helicopter parents out of the equation, that isn't happening.. You really sounds like what was said in my faux article must have been appealing.


So let's talk music. Hip-hop has lyrics that quote the N word quote a bit, and a lot of other cuss words, race loaded words, homophobic lyrics, misogyny, violent content, and to quote Cal about what is unacceptable: "words, ideas, and subjects that might cause discomfort or give offense." You say the coach has no say. So does the coach comment on what lyrics are unacceptable or enforce the school's rules (I suppose subject to 1st amendment rights should they apply)?

DiabloWags said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Oh your back from your safe place.

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Quote:

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thanks for the PM, Stunned and amazed is all I can say. Heads should roll.

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The fact that you've gone from "heads should roll" to "what about due process for McKeever" because of what happened with the Cal soccer coach pretty much says it all. It's simply amazing how much you cherry pick someone's post in order to stroke your gigantic ego.

You strike me as someone that is nothing but a pompous "blowhard" that can never admit when theyre wrong.
Or were you not the guy who initially posted . . . heads should roll?

Just stop.
You're embarrassing yourself about a Cal program that you know NOTHING about.

You continue to criticize others here for assuming that they've done nothing more than believe a newspaper article with your fool's errand assumptions. There are some posters on Bearinsider that have big egos and conduct themselves in a most pompous fashion, but you really take the cake.

You might want to apply for a job with Cal HR.
They'd love someone like you.

You're now on Ignore.

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You guys are scaring me. I thought I lived in a universe where you teamed up to kick me in the nuts every Sunday when I post a Robert Reich op ed. You can't change your positions on the sun dial like that. I'm an elderly feeble pensioner that can't bear up under that strain.

DiabloWags said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Oh your back from your safe place.

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Quote:

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thanks for the PM, Stunned and amazed is all I can say. Heads should roll.

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The fact that you've gone from "heads should roll" to "what about due process for McKeever" because of what happened with the Cal soccer coach pretty much says it all. It's simply amazing how much you cherry pick someone's post in order to stroke your gigantic ego.

You strike me as someone that is nothing but a pompous "blowhard" that can never admit when theyre wrong.
Or were you not the guy who initially posted . . . heads should roll?

Just stop.
You're embarrassing yourself about a Cal program that you know NOTHING about.

You continue to criticize others here for assuming that they've done nothing more than believe a newspaper article with your fool's errand assumptions. There are some posters on Bearinsider that have big egos and conduct themselves in a most pompous fashion, but you really take the cake.

You might want to apply for a job with Cal HR.
They'd love someone like you.

You're now on Ignore.

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Ooh, back to a safe space.

Heads should roll in terms of exit interviews (that was the context). Even if Terry is "exonerated" that this flare-up was not foreseen means that someone was not asking the right questions in the exit interview. Having someone who is not been a college athlete, coach or sport administrator doing exit interviews is a recipe for disaster. Sometimes you have to actually follow the earlier posts to understand what is being said. That might create a problem when you get push back and constantly have to run away.

You like to come in and focus on one point and ignore the totality of what is being said, and then insult. You have had an axe to grind against McKeever, which seems to be personal, so much so that you have constantly demanded immediate retribution not only for McKeever but the administrators at IA. Then there is a know it all attitude about how only you how what is going on with the swim team, in Alex Morgan's head, the butt-covering IAD folks who you didn't even realize were not doing the investigation, and what the Chancellor must do (to be in you letter).

And then to be called pompous, when I was trying for overbearing. I'm truly crushed. But at least I can get a job in HR!