Saban on NIL

9,621 Views | 135 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by cal83dls79
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
01Bear said:

cal83dls79 said:

I'll leave it at when 01 states "have no idea" . It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board lump southerners in a crap bucket. At least I lived there, my father did business there and brothers who went to reputable schools there' and still have family there. Not a good look for cal

Lol! I lived there, too! If you bothered to read my earlier comments, you would've seen that.* I know first-hand about the Southern fondness for the Confederacy; the belief in white racial superiority, which usually shows up as negative remarks about black and brown people; and the belief that women should be little more than extensions of their men, without agency of their own. I'm also familiar with the hypocritical "Southern charm" that's best reflected in the common phrase "bless your heart" where folks pretend to be friendly to a person but are silently judging and diminishing him. I saw it all play out when I lived there.

To be certain, there are genuinely good people in the South, too. People who are sincere and helpful to their neighbors. People who believe in equality between the races and the genders. People who understand the harms that generations of slavery, racism, and misogyny have wrought. People who work to undo that harm. But these aren't the people who glorify the Confederacy. They're not the ones who wax nostalgic about how great
America was during the Jim Crow era. They're not the ones stripping women of their hard earned civil rights. In short, they're not the ones whose culture Nick Saban's comments reflect.

* It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board make up random bullcrap and intentionally misrepresent what what others wrote. Not a good look for Cal.
you definitely need to take this to off topic. I posted a statement Saban made about about the condition of college sports. You are all over the map with disdain and support.
You called him a slave catcher. Called me a troll. And now you try to rephrase your intent. Nope
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends. C'mon man . Do better
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

01Bear said:

cal83dls79 said:

I'll leave it at when 01 states "have no idea" . It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board lump southerners in a crap bucket. At least I lived there, my father did business there and brothers who went to reputable schools there' and still have family there. Not a good look for cal

Lol! I lived there, too! If you bothered to read my earlier comments, you would've seen that.* I know first-hand about the Southern fondness for the Confederacy; the belief in white racial superiority, which usually shows up as negative remarks about black and brown people; and the belief that women should be little more than extensions of their men, without agency of their own. I'm also familiar with the hypocritical "Southern charm" that's best reflected in the common phrase "bless your heart" where folks pretend to be friendly to a person but are silently judging and diminishing him. I saw it all play out when I lived there.

To be certain, there are genuinely good people in the South, too. People who are sincere and helpful to their neighbors. People who believe in equality between the races and the genders. People who understand the harms that generations of slavery, racism, and misogyny have wrought. People who work to undo that harm. But these aren't the people who glorify the Confederacy. They're not the ones who wax nostalgic about how great
America was during the Jim Crow era. They're not the ones stripping women of their hard earned civil rights. In short, they're not the ones whose culture Nick Saban's comments reflect.

* It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board make up random bullcrap and intentionally misrepresent what what others wrote. Not a good look for Cal.
you definitely need to take this to off topic. I posted a statement Saban made about about the condition of college sports. You are all over the map with disdain and support.
You called him a slave catcher. Called me a troll. And now you try to rephrase your intent. Nope


You know he didn't call him a slave-catcher, right? It was an analogy. It is one thing to call someone out for sloppy language, but then you shouldn't use sloppy language in doing so.

Robert E. Lee's birthday is a state holiday in many former Confederate states including Alabama. In 1973, Texas changed the name of the state holiday on Lee's birthday to "Confederate Heroes Day." Now, many people in Texas do not think any of the Confederates were "heroes." However, clearly enough do that they are able to maintain "Confederate Heroes Day" as a state holiday in Texas. You cannot deny that there are many in the South who glorify the "Antebellum Period." Just this week DeSantis defended slavery due to all the "valuable skills" enslaved people were taught "like blacksmithing" which is mind-numingly stupid besides being vile.
01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

01Bear said:

cal83dls79 said:

I'll leave it at when 01 states "have no idea" . It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board lump southerners in a crap bucket. At least I lived there, my father did business there and brothers who went to reputable schools there' and still have family there. Not a good look for cal

Lol! I lived there, too! If you bothered to read my earlier comments, you would've seen that.* I know first-hand about the Southern fondness for the Confederacy; the belief in white racial superiority, which usually shows up as negative remarks about black and brown people; and the belief that women should be little more than extensions of their men, without agency of their own. I'm also familiar with the hypocritical "Southern charm" that's best reflected in the common phrase "bless your heart" where folks pretend to be friendly to a person but are silently judging and diminishing him. I saw it all play out when I lived there.

To be certain, there are genuinely good people in the South, too. People who are sincere and helpful to their neighbors. People who believe in equality between the races and the genders. People who understand the harms that generations of slavery, racism, and misogyny have wrought. People who work to undo that harm. But these aren't the people who glorify the Confederacy. They're not the ones who wax nostalgic about how great
America was during the Jim Crow era. They're not the ones stripping women of their hard earned civil rights. In short, they're not the ones whose culture Nick Saban's comments reflect.

* It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board make up random bullcrap and intentionally misrepresent what what others wrote. Not a good look for Cal.
you definitely need to take this to off topic. I posted a statement Saban made about about the condition of college sports. You are all over the map with disdain and support.
You called him a slave catcher. Called me a troll. And now you try to rephrase your intent. Nope

You keep repeating your same falsehoods, never mind how many times they've been corrected. If that's not trolling, what is it?

Also, I've never changed my intent. I pointed out Saban's a hypocrite who was happy to exploit the labor of student athletes to enrich himself but balked at a change to the system that allowed the student athletes to be paid (legally). I compared that to chattel slavery in the South and pointed out how it's been romanticized by many in the South.

You're the one who went on to claim that's a gross overgeneralization of the South. To which I replied I was pointing out those who adopted that specific Southern culture and not that everyone in the South holds those views. Yet, you irrationally kept insisting that I claimed the entire South wishes to return to the Civil War era in complete disregard of what I've actually written to the contrary.

Instead of suggesting we take this to the off-topic board, maybe it's time you dropped your ridiculous arguments and your even more inane attempt to impugn me by intentionally misrepresenting what I've stated.

01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends. C'mon man . Do better

What the heck are you on about this time?
bear2034
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends. C'mon man . Do better
This.
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bear2034 said:

cal83dls79 said:

"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends. C'mon man . Do better
This.

I'll be traveling to the south a lot to see my Bears. I do get what CalAlum said. Lived in the planet Houston. Every public school was a Robert E Lee school. I went to a Jesuit prep school where we learned stuff
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
Bobodeluxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Former Arizona State and Notre Dame quarterback Drew Pyne is transferring to Missouri, he told ESPN in a phone interview Sunday.

Show me the money!
01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bear2034 said:

cal83dls79 said:

"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends. C'mon man . Do better
This.


It looks like you understand his ramblings, would you care to explain what he means? I can't quite fathom this nonsense.
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
01Bear said:

bear2034 said:

cal83dls79 said:

"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends. C'mon man . Do better
This.


It looks like you understand his ramblings, would you care to explain what he means? I can't quite fathom this nonsense.
do you have Google?
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

01Bear said:

bear2034 said:

cal83dls79 said:

"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends. C'mon man . Do better
This.


It looks like you understand his ramblings, would you care to explain what he means? I can't quite fathom this nonsense.
do you have Google?

Lol! Now you want me to google what you wrote in order to figure what your ramblings meant?
WalterSobchak
How long do you want to ignore this user?













Please give to Cal Legends at https://calegends.com/donation/ and encourage everyone you know who loves Cal sports to do it too.

To be in the Top 1% of all NIL collectives we only need around 3% of alumni to give $100/mo. OR 6% to give $50/mo. Please help spread the word. "If we don't broaden this base we're dead." - Sebastabear
TomBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?

I'm simply dismissing 01s comments on this topic. He makes southerners sound ignorant. Well, look in the mirror, son.

Saban was interviewed last week on Brett Baier's FNC program. He made a lot of sense, and represents what I think a lot of us wish college sports could still be.

Sadly, they aren't what they used to be. Coaching, at least college football coaching, has passed him and many others by now. It is a business first and foremost. It has been a business for a long time. But the money and protocols have elevated the business aspect to the first and foremost aspect of what coaches have to do.

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.

I suspect that within 5 years, the Pac will be back. As far as the conference re-alignments are concerned, I just don't think the current model is sustainable.

As for the business part of the game, I just don't have a clue if it's savable or not.

But Saban isn't alone in the things he is sharing. Whether you like him, the SEC, (the south), or the current model or not, something has been lost. It has been slipping away for a while now. But as I said, college sports is a business now.....big business! And I don't know if there is enough will on the part of those who wish it weren't so, or enough power to do anything about it.
01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TomBear said:


I'm simply dismissing 01s comments on this topic. He makes southerners sound ignorant. Well, look in the mirror, son.

Saban was interviewed last week on Brett Baier's FNC program. He made a lot of sense, and represents what I think a lot of us wish college sports could still be.

Sadly, they aren't what they used to be. Coaching, at least college football coaching, has passed him and many others by now. It is a business first and foremost. It has been a business for a long time. But the money and protocols have elevated the business aspect to the first and foremost aspect of what coaches have to do.

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.

I suspect that within 5 years, the Pac will be back. As far as the conference re-alignments are concerned, I just don't think the current model is sustainable.

As for the business part of the game, I just don't have a clue if it's savable or not.

But Saban isn't alone in the things he is sharing. Whether you like him, the SEC, (the south), or the current model or not, something has been lost. It has been slipping away for a while now. But as I said, college sports is a business now.....big business! And I don't know if there is enough will on the part of those who wish it weren't so, or enough power to do anything about it.

For starters, I'm not your son. There's no need to pretend that word choice was accidental or anything other than an attempt to diminish me and elevate yourself. It's also why for hundreds of years, white folk referred to full-grown minority men as "boy." Your use of the term "son" in this manner does little more than reveal your own biases.

Next, I never claimed Southerners were ignorant. Far from it; they know exactly what they're doing when when they claim they're "celebrating our heritage". It's a racist dog whistle; they're celebrating the exploitative institution of racism based slavery and its underlying premise of white supremacy,

Nick Saban also knows exactly what he's doing by retiring now. He's getting out before other schools can catch up by paying their student athletes more money than Bama's boosters can wrangle. Saban's not an idiot; he knows that the state of Alabama is not an economic powerhouse and its flagship university's boosters aren't as financially well-off as those who graduated from the likes of Texas and USC (not to mention Oregon's famous alumnus, Phil Knight) and likely won't be able to match the latters' booster's NIL efforts.

That said, I began my comments by describing Saban's comments as hypocritical. He's lamenting the loss of amateurism in college sports, even though he became a millionaire as part of that "amateur" model. He's not upset with the loss of amateurism in college sports; he's upset that the student athletes are now going to get paid what they deserve. Since money is a finite resource, this means there will be less money for coaches, like him.

Like Southerners who wax nostalgic about the era of institutional slavery, Saban's waxing nostalgic about the era of coaches and administrators getting rich off the effort of student athletes. Both pretend it was some great era. What goes unmentioned is that it was only great for those who made millions, not those who received nothing (legally) for their blood and sweat. (Let's not even get into the fact that most of the top players in Div. 1 football and men's basketball, the two sports that generate the most revenue, are young black men from financially disadvantaged backgrounds. Let's also ignore the fact that many of the "schools" push these student athletes into useless Mickey Mouse classes/majors such that when the kids run out of academic eligibility, they don't even have a viable college education on which to fall back and instead fall back into the same financially disadvantaged situations they tried to escape.)
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
01Bear said:

TomBear said:


I'm simply dismissing 01s comments on this topic. He makes southerners sound ignorant. Well, look in the mirror, son.

Saban was interviewed last week on Brett Baier's FNC program. He made a lot of sense, and represents what I think a lot of us wish college sports could still be.

Sadly, they aren't what they used to be. Coaching, at least college football coaching, has passed him and many others by now. It is a business first and foremost. It has been a business for a long time. But the money and protocols have elevated the business aspect to the first and foremost aspect of what coaches have to do.

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.

I suspect that within 5 years, the Pac will be back. As far as the conference re-alignments are concerned, I just don't think the current model is sustainable.

As for the business part of the game, I just don't have a clue if it's savable or not.

But Saban isn't alone in the things he is sharing. Whether you like him, the SEC, (the south), or the current model or not, something has been lost. It has been slipping away for a while now. But as I said, college sports is a business now.....big business! And I don't know if there is enough will on the part of those who wish it weren't so, or enough power to do anything about it.

For starters, I'm not your son. There's no need to pretend that word choice was accidental or anything other than an attempt to diminish me and elevate yourself. It's also why for hundreds of years, white folk referred to full-grown minority men as "boy." Your use of the term "son" in this manner does little more than reveal your own biases.

Next, I never claimed Southerners were ignorant. Far from it; they know exactly what they're doing when when they claim they're "celebrating our heritage". It's a racist dog whistle; they're celebrating the exploitative institution of racism based slavery and its underlying premise of white supremacy,

Nick Saban also knows exactly what he's doing by retiring now. He's getting out before other schools can catch up by paying their student athletes more money than Bama's boosters can wrangle. Saban's not an idiot; he knows that the state of Alabama is not an economic powerhouse and its flagship university's boosters aren't as financially well-off as those who graduated from the likes of Texas and USC (not to mention Oregon's famous alumnus, Phil Knight) and likely won't be able to match the latters' booster's NIL efforts.

That said, I began my comments by describing Saban's comments as hypocritical. He's lamenting the loss of amateurism in college sports, even though he became a millionaire as part of that "amateur" model. He's not upset with the loss of amateurism in college sports; he's upset that the student athletes are now going to get paid what they deserve. Since money is a finite resource, this means there will be less money for coaches, like him.

Like Southerners who wax nostalgic about the era of institutional slavery, Saban's waxing nostalgic about the era of coaches and administrators getting rich off the effort of student athletes. Both pretend it was some great era. What goes unmentioned is that it was only great for those who made millions, not those who received nothing (legally) for their blood and sweat. (Let's not even get into the fact that most of the top players in Div. 1 football and men's basketball, the two sports that generate the most revenue, are young black men from financially disadvantaged backgrounds. Let's also ignore the fact that many of the "schools" push these student athletes into useless Mickey Mouse classes/majors such that when the kids run out of academic eligibility, they don't even have a viable college education on which to fall back and instead fall back into the same financially disadvantaged situations they tried to escape.)

it's curious how many come to tour help here. The fact you have no clue as to the trope as " I have southern friends too"! Is baffling, but unsurprising
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
Bobodeluxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
As an aside, is there a translation available for those of us who are presidential aged?

"it's curious how many come to tour help here."
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bobodeluxe said:

As an aside, is there a translation available for those of us who are presidential aged?

"it's curious how many come to tour help here."
thanks for the spelling lesson. . Weak you can do betterer
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

01Bear said:

TomBear said:


I'm simply dismissing 01s comments on this topic. He makes southerners sound ignorant. Well, look in the mirror, son.

Saban was interviewed last week on Brett Baier's FNC program. He made a lot of sense, and represents what I think a lot of us wish college sports could still be.

Sadly, they aren't what they used to be. Coaching, at least college football coaching, has passed him and many others by now. It is a business first and foremost. It has been a business for a long time. But the money and protocols have elevated the business aspect to the first and foremost aspect of what coaches have to do.

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.

I suspect that within 5 years, the Pac will be back. As far as the conference re-alignments are concerned, I just don't think the current model is sustainable.

As for the business part of the game, I just don't have a clue if it's savable or not.

But Saban isn't alone in the things he is sharing. Whether you like him, the SEC, (the south), or the current model or not, something has been lost. It has been slipping away for a while now. But as I said, college sports is a business now.....big business! And I don't know if there is enough will on the part of those who wish it weren't so, or enough power to do anything about it.

For starters, I'm not your son. There's no need to pretend that word choice was accidental or anything other than an attempt to diminish me and elevate yourself. It's also why for hundreds of years, white folk referred to full-grown minority men as "boy." Your use of the term "son" in this manner does little more than reveal your own biases.

Next, I never claimed Southerners were ignorant. Far from it; they know exactly what they're doing when when they claim they're "celebrating our heritage". It's a racist dog whistle; they're celebrating the exploitative institution of racism based slavery and its underlying premise of white supremacy,

Nick Saban also knows exactly what he's doing by retiring now. He's getting out before other schools can catch up by paying their student athletes more money than Bama's boosters can wrangle. Saban's not an idiot; he knows that the state of Alabama is not an economic powerhouse and its flagship university's boosters aren't as financially well-off as those who graduated from the likes of Texas and USC (not to mention Oregon's famous alumnus, Phil Knight) and likely won't be able to match the latters' booster's NIL efforts.

That said, I began my comments by describing Saban's comments as hypocritical. He's lamenting the loss of amateurism in college sports, even though he became a millionaire as part of that "amateur" model. He's not upset with the loss of amateurism in college sports; he's upset that the student athletes are now going to get paid what they deserve. Since money is a finite resource, this means there will be less money for coaches, like him.

Like Southerners who wax nostalgic about the era of institutional slavery, Saban's waxing nostalgic about the era of coaches and administrators getting rich off the effort of student athletes. Both pretend it was some great era. What goes unmentioned is that it was only great for those who made millions, not those who received nothing (legally) for their blood and sweat. (Let's not even get into the fact that most of the top players in Div. 1 football and men's basketball, the two sports that generate the most revenue, are young black men from financially disadvantaged backgrounds. Let's also ignore the fact that many of the "schools" push these student athletes into useless Mickey Mouse classes/majors such that when the kids run out of academic eligibility, they don't even have a viable college education on which to fall back and instead fall back into the same financially disadvantaged situations they tried to escape.)

it's curious how many come to tour help here. The fact you have no clue as to the trope as " I have southern friends too"! Is baffling, but unsurprising

Is it really a trope if it exists in your mind, only?

As for people coming to my help, why would that even be necessary? I merely pointed out that Nick Saban is a hypocrite for making millions by exploiting student athletes but then got upset when the rules changed to allow student athletes to make millions and compared that to how many Southerners wax nostalgically about the slavery era when the wealthy white slave owners became wealthy off the unpaid labor of their slaves.

Frankly, none of this needs defending. If you wish to provide counterarguments, feel free. But it's funny that you seem to think I somehow need defending by others for making these statements. Unless, of course, you intend to inflict physical violence against me. If that's the case, then the gloves are off.
01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

01Bear said:

TomBear said:


I'm simply dismissing 01s comments on this topic. He makes southerners sound ignorant. Well, look in the mirror, son.

Saban was interviewed last week on Brett Baier's FNC program. He made a lot of sense, and represents what I think a lot of us wish college sports could still be.

Sadly, they aren't what they used to be. Coaching, at least college football coaching, has passed him and many others by now. It is a business first and foremost. It has been a business for a long time. But the money and protocols have elevated the business aspect to the first and foremost aspect of what coaches have to do.

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.

I suspect that within 5 years, the Pac will be back. As far as the conference re-alignments are concerned, I just don't think the current model is sustainable.

As for the business part of the game, I just don't have a clue if it's savable or not.

But Saban isn't alone in the things he is sharing. Whether you like him, the SEC, (the south), or the current model or not, something has been lost. It has been slipping away for a while now. But as I said, college sports is a business now.....big business! And I don't know if there is enough will on the part of those who wish it weren't so, or enough power to do anything about it.

For starters, I'm not your son. There's no need to pretend that word choice was accidental or anything other than an attempt to diminish me and elevate yourself. It's also why for hundreds of years, white folk referred to full-grown minority men as "boy." Your use of the term "son" in this manner does little more than reveal your own biases.

Next, I never claimed Southerners were ignorant. Far from it; they know exactly what they're doing when when they claim they're "celebrating our heritage". It's a racist dog whistle; they're celebrating the exploitative institution of racism based slavery and its underlying premise of white supremacy,

Nick Saban also knows exactly what he's doing by retiring now. He's getting out before other schools can catch up by paying their student athletes more money than Bama's boosters can wrangle. Saban's not an idiot; he knows that the state of Alabama is not an economic powerhouse and its flagship university's boosters aren't as financially well-off as those who graduated from the likes of Texas and USC (not to mention Oregon's famous alumnus, Phil Knight) and likely won't be able to match the latters' booster's NIL efforts.

That said, I began my comments by describing Saban's comments as hypocritical. He's lamenting the loss of amateurism in college sports, even though he became a millionaire as part of that "amateur" model. He's not upset with the loss of amateurism in college sports; he's upset that the student athletes are now going to get paid what they deserve. Since money is a finite resource, this means there will be less money for coaches, like him.

Like Southerners who wax nostalgic about the era of institutional slavery, Saban's waxing nostalgic about the era of coaches and administrators getting rich off the effort of student athletes. Both pretend it was some great era. What goes unmentioned is that it was only great for those who made millions, not those who received nothing (legally) for their blood and sweat. (Let's not even get into the fact that most of the top players in Div. 1 football and men's basketball, the two sports that generate the most revenue, are young black men from financially disadvantaged backgrounds. Let's also ignore the fact that many of the "schools" push these student athletes into useless Mickey Mouse classes/majors such that when the kids run out of academic eligibility, they don't even have a viable college education on which to fall back and instead fall back into the same financially disadvantaged situations they tried to escape.)

it's curious how many come to tour help here. The fact you have no clue as to the trope as " I have southern friends too"! Is baffling, but unsurprising

Also, for the record, instead of your statement above,
what you actually tried to ascribe to me was the following
cal83dls79 said:

"Genuinely good people in the south" =
That and I have black friends.



cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Hold on a second. I distinctly remember you back track the "slave catcher" analogy. So double down on that? Man, get your arguments straight.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
Sebastabear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.
Tom, I am sorry to hear that Cal may be losing you as a football fan. That is a shame as the program needs all the support it can get.

I will admit I continue to find it disorienting that Nick Saban is being held out as the standard bearer making the argument for those feeling that college football has become too commercial and too much like a business. Has any individual on the planet benefited more from the money that has poured into college football than Nick Saban? He is not only the highest paid public employee in Alabama, he was probably the most highly compensated person in the entire state of Alabama over the past decade, public or private. Think about that for a moment. A football coach at a public university was likely making more money than anyone else in the entire state. And now he's leaving that job and will be paid $93.6 million to talk about his old job? And yet he's the one telling us "Oh my God, how horrible there's money in college football"?

You correctly note that there has been money entering college football for quite a while now. That's undeniably true. But we can't gloss over the fact that dear old Saint Nick, personally and individually was maybe the greatest beneficiary of that money the world has ever seen.

So I'll admit I find it increasingly hard not to to throw my hands up in the air when people recoil in revulsion upon hearing that college football players are getting $25,000 and $50,000 checks, and for the vast majority of them those are the amounts were talking about - there aren't a lot of Caleb Williams" running around out there. Or Jaydn Otts' either for that matter. Most players come from very humble family circumstances and $25,000 or $50,000 is incredibly impactful for them and their family. The ability to help with younger siblings. The ability to help with ill parents. That's where NIL money is mostly going. And it's not going for $17 million mansions like Nick Sabin constructed for himself.

He's actually the problem. Not NIL.
01Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

Hold on a second. I distinctly remember you back track the "slave catcher" analogy. So double down on that? Man, get your arguments straight.

Umm, no. You're attributing your own misinterpretation to what I've written, again. I've never made a "slave catcher" analogy. That's entirely your own imagination. I have repeatedly analogized Nick Saban's lamenting of the legalized paying of student athletes with the lamenting of those Southerners who waxed nostalgic for the slavery era.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sebastabear said:

Quote:

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.
Tom, I am sorry to hear that Cal may be losing you as a football fan. That is a shame as the program needs all the support it can get.

I will admit I continue to find it disorienting that Nick Saban is being held out as the standard bearer making the argument for those feeling that college football has become too commercial and too much like a business. Has any individual on the planet benefited more from the money that has poured into college football than Nick Saban? He is not only the highest paid public employee in Alabama, he was probably the most highly compensated person in the entire state of Alabama over the past decade, public or private. Think about that for a moment. A football coach at a public university was likely making more money than anyone else in the entire state. And now he's leaving that job and will be paid $93.6 million to talk about his old job? And yet he's the one telling us "Oh my God, how horrible there's money in college football"?

You correctly note that there has been money entering college football for quite a while now. That's undeniably true. But we can't gloss over the fact that dear old Saint Nick, personally and individually was maybe the greatest beneficiary of that money the world has ever seen.

So I'll admit I find it increasingly hard not to to throw my hands up in the air when people recoil in revulsion upon hearing that college football players are getting $25,000 and $50,000 checks, and for the vast majority of them those are the amounts were talking about - there aren't a lot of Caleb Williams" running around out there. Or Jaydn Otts' either for that matter. Most players come from very humble family circumstances and $25,000 or $50,000 is incredibly impactful for them and their family. The ability to help with younger siblings. The ability to help with ill parents. That's where NIL money is mostly going. And it's not going for $17 million mansions like Nick Sabin constructed for himself.

He's actually the problem. Not NIL.


Hear! Hear!
6956bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sebastabear said:

Quote:

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.
Tom, I am sorry to hear that Cal may be losing you as a football fan. That is a shame as the program needs all the support it can get.

I will admit I continue to find it disorienting that Nick Saban is being held out as the standard bearer making the argument for those feeling that college football has become too commercial and too much like a business. Has any individual on the planet benefited more from the money that has poured into college football than Nick Saban? He is not only the highest paid public employee in Alabama, he was probably the most highly compensated person in the entire state of Alabama over the past decade, public or private. Think about that for a moment. A football coach at a public university was likely making more money than anyone else in the entire state. And now he's leaving that job and will be paid $93.6 million to talk about his old job? And yet he's the one telling us "Oh my God, how horrible there's money in college football"?

You correctly note that there has been money entering college football for quite a while now. That's undeniably true. But we can't gloss over the fact that dear old Saint Nick, personally and individually was maybe the greatest beneficiary of that money the world has ever seen.

So I'll admit I find it increasingly hard not to to throw my hands up in the air when people recoil in revulsion upon hearing that college football players are getting $25,000 and $50,000 checks, and for the vast majority of them those are the amounts were talking about - there aren't a lot of Caleb Williams" running around out there. Or Jaydn Otts' either for that matter. Most players come from very humble family circumstances and $25,000 or $50,000 is incredibly impactful for them and their family. The ability to help with younger siblings. The ability to help with ill parents. That's where NIL money is mostly going. And it's not going for $17 million mansions like Nick Sabin constructed for himself.

He's actually the problem. Not NIL.

True enough. But college football is in some turmoil. NIL is not NIL. It is flat out pay for play. I do not have a problem with the money. But the process is very troubling.

NIL is a way for players to profit off their name, image and likeness. If players are to be paid then lets orgranize and find a way to get them paid. Let the players with really earning potential keep their NIL opportunities and money. Unlimited transfers is fine. But how it is done is impossible for coaches and programs to manage.

The players deserve to be paid. Yes Saban benefitted to a ridiculous degree and to many that makes him the worst person to bring these issues to light and work for a solution that works for all. But he also is a voice that many in the world of college athletics and media will pay attention to. I am glad he is speaking out. He has a big megaphone. More need to join the cause.

There is a way to get players paid. For NIL to flourish and allow for those that can benefit to do so. For there to be an organized path for transferring, recruiting and disbursing benefits to the players. It has always been a business, but now there is chaos. The pendulum always swings too far in each direction before it meets somewhere close to the middle. The game is too important to not find a solution. I agree that Saban is a pompous guy that has benefitted greatly by the way things were. But I am willing to accept that because of that he may have some ideas that can bring some structure to the sport.

The amount of money floating around is substantial. Everyone can get their piece of the pie. The NFL has a found a way. And it is not just Saban, it is the schools and conferences as well that are a big part of the problem.

Lets get the players paid. Lets get some structure to the entire recruiting model. Lets punish (severely) the programs that tamper. Lets put college back into the equation. I do not care what the players get paid. But the NFL has a structure. This world of hoping for boosters to fund a program that will undergo significant change each and every year is not the way. It is what is happening now though.

As poor a spokesperson as Nick Saban may be, I think folks should take a long look at the conference leadership like Greg Sankey and Tony Petitti. If the game is to be simply a business then it needs to do better. It can but greed and power are driving a stake into the heart of the game. Saban is a convenient villain. But there are a lot of villains in this.

The players need to be paid. There needs to be some organization and structure to the process. There needs to be some sort of competitive balance. The reality is these players are employees. The only thing at question now is how are they to be paid. What benefits they have and what sort of contractual obligations each has to each other.

If they do not get their collective acts together there will be more folks like Tom that just opt out.
Goobear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
01Bear said:

cal83dls79 said:

Hold on a second. I distinctly remember you back track the "slave catcher" analogy. So double down on that? Man, get your arguments straight.

Umm, no. You're attributing your own misinterpretation to what I've written, again. I've never made a "slave catcher" analogy. That's entirely your own imagination. I have repeatedly analogized Nick Saban's lamenting of the legalized paying of student athletes with the lamenting of those Southerners who waxed nostalgic for the slavery era.
01, I agree with you on Saban. A true hypocrite indeed. In more ways than I can disclose. Most of the players that got paid there were not white players…..What I don't understand you have to mention slavery etc etc because we are on a fb discussion thread not a politics thread.
Jeff82
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I just want to endorse what 6956 said above. Sankey and Pettiti, it seems to me, are representing conferences where a number of the schools have fans that are not alumni, and root for those teams in the absence of an NFL team. That's not the case for Cal. If I want to root for paid laundry, I can watch the 49ers. My attraction to Cal football is the fact that the players are at least nominally students, as I was. Like Tom, I suspect, I'm worried that that is going away. If NIL can be made to function as Sebastabear described, giving players, many from poor families, a way to support themselves and their loved ones while they go to school, I'm all for that. But right now, it's not clear to me that this is the direction that Sankey and Pettiti and their media co-villains are heading.
philly1121
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sebasta - then who is the villain in all this? The coaches? The players? NCAA? The fans?

I think you're blaming Saban for being paid this outlandish money but then having the audacity of calling out the economic landscape of college football as completely skewed. Now I'll admit that he's crying with a loaf of bread under each arm but - the man did win six national championships. Wouldn't we want something like that?

You're blaming Saban but he's not the real villain in all this. Its the NCAA and fans. the NCAA refused to change. And 100 plus years of "amateurism" in college sports finally caught up with them. And its fans fault because college football never had a true national champion. There was near unanimity that fans wanted a playoff. This has, in effect, pushed big programs to turn near professional in their approach. Couple that with the NCAA's refusal to change, their corruption and not giving a damn about athletes - we are now where we are today.
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

Sebastabear said:

Quote:

It was interesting the past weekend having the opportunity to talk with people at the Bears rugby match. Almost everyone I talked to about this felt the same way. This is the first year in decades I'm not renewing my season tickets for football. While I love the game as it was, I'm less passionate about it now. The game day experience is all business now.....commercials, piped in crap, promotions......I've just grown tired of the hijacking of what was a once unique college (and particularly Cal) experience. The changing of conferences and loss of rivalries further drove me away. But rugby hasn't been tarnished by the monetary characteristics that football and basketball have been subjected to. And a great majority of those I talked with mentioned that's one reason they enjoy going to the rugby matches.
Tom, I am sorry to hear that Cal may be losing you as a football fan. That is a shame as the program needs all the support it can get.

I will admit I continue to find it disorienting that Nick Saban is being held out as the standard bearer making the argument for those feeling that college football has become too commercial and too much like a business. Has any individual on the planet benefited more from the money that has poured into college football than Nick Saban? He is not only the highest paid public employee in Alabama, he was probably the most highly compensated person in the entire state of Alabama over the past decade, public or private. Think about that for a moment. A football coach at a public university was likely making more money than anyone else in the entire state. And now he's leaving that job and will be paid $93.6 million to talk about his old job? And yet he's the one telling us "Oh my God, how horrible there's money in college football"?

You correctly note that there has been money entering college football for quite a while now. That's undeniably true. But we can't gloss over the fact that dear old Saint Nick, personally and individually was maybe the greatest beneficiary of that money the world has ever seen.

So I'll admit I find it increasingly hard not to to throw my hands up in the air when people recoil in revulsion upon hearing that college football players are getting $25,000 and $50,000 checks, and for the vast majority of them those are the amounts were talking about - there aren't a lot of Caleb Williams" running around out there. Or Jaydn Otts' either for that matter. Most players come from very humble family circumstances and $25,000 or $50,000 is incredibly impactful for them and their family. The ability to help with younger siblings. The ability to help with ill parents. That's where NIL money is mostly going. And it's not going for $17 million mansions like Nick Sabin constructed for himself.

He's actually the problem. Not NIL.


Hear! Hear!
I'd refer to this as self-serving baloney. Absurdism is a lost art of communication. I'm not suggesting we belong to the church of Saban but to see the twisted views and dragging in slavery here is enough
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
Sebastabear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
philly1121 said:

Sebasta - then who is the villain in all this? The coaches? The players? NCAA? The fans?

I think you're blaming Saban for being paid this outlandish money but then having the audacity of calling out the economic landscape of college football as completely skewed. Now I'll admit that he's crying with a loaf of bread under each arm but - the man did win six national championships. Wouldn't we want something like that?

You're blaming Saban but he's not the real villain in all this. Its the NCAA and fans. the NCAA refused to change. And 100 plus years of "amateurism" in college sports finally caught up with them. And its fans fault because college football never had a true national champion. There was near unanimity that fans wanted a playoff. This has, in effect, pushed big programs to turn near professional in their approach. Couple that with the NCAA's refusal to change, their corruption and not giving a damn about athletes - we are now where we are today.
I don't know. For me at least when a guy who makes love to a rattlesnake gets bit I don't have a lot of sympathy. Not for him. Maybe for the rattlesnake.

The NCAA obviously didn't do its job in thinking about the long-term health and future of the sport. As well, of course in thinking about the right thing to do for all the unpaid "workers" who were really making this financial engine go. And sure you can find amorphous groups like "the fans" to blame as well. But here's the reality. Nick Saban and his agent pushed for that salary. That salary was used to set the benchmark across all of college football. Kirby Smart had his salary explicitly set by reference to Saban. So did Dabo Swinney and Ryan Day, etc. The list goes on. These coaches, led by Saban, could at any point have said "Hold on a minute. This doesn't make sense. I am amassing dynastic wealth as a public employee and the players are getting screwed over. I want to forgo some of my salary so we can think about how we can use that money instead for the betterment of the students." He could've led that charge. He did not.

Sure in a capitalistic world you can argue that wasn't his job. Workers aren't obligated to forgo salary for the good of "the system." But he had outsized influence and outsized power. He wasn't just another cog in the machine. He could have made a real difference.

So you can cry me a river for rattlesnake man. He wouldn't be my chosen spokesperson for this issue. But that's just me.
BearSD
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Jeff82 said:

Sankey and Pettiti, it seems to me, are representing conferences where a number of the schools have fans that are not alumni, and root for those teams in the absence of an NFL team.
When you're trying to squeeze every last dollar out of college football, as Sankey and Petitti are doing, "t-shirt fans" are where the money is. The largest TV followings, and thus the largest piles of TV money, will always be with the teams whose casual fan base is 100 or 1000 times larger than their alumni base. Eventually, all of the teams in that category will be in either the SEC or Big Ten.

As for anyone who thinks this financial separation will be limited to football -- ha ha ha. The next big step will be using athletic revenue to pay college athletes, and not only football players. SEC and Big Ten athletic departments will be buying the best athletes in basketball and any other college sport they happen to care about, and sooner or later their leagues will be the only ones that matter in several college sports. Why did the SEC become dominant in college baseball? Because its teams decided to start shoveling piles of money into their own baseball teams, instead of watching Fresno State or Rice or Oregon State win the College World Series. Now multiply that effect over and over once they start paying the athletes directly.
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I don't disagree with anything you said. I took umbrage to this castigation of Saban ( spelled correctly) as some southerner slave catcher thanks to '01.

My focus now is on road trips to ACC from Maine.
BC and PItt all set
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
OdontoBear66
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I watch this whole thing unfold and am less interested in the whole Saban argument in this thread, but would be interested in a pretty simple answer to a pretty direct question. Like this whole thing or not, I see a dedicated Sebastabear working his end to the enth degree and still coming up short and more monies are needed. Various reasons why.

But my concern is if that is the way things are this year, where will they be next year, the year after that, etc. I cannot imagine good people like sebastabear will have the energy as the price is bid up by schools with a fan base that will increase the ante'. Up, up, and up. The answer I hear is if we don't go along we are toast very soon. Is there any sanity to what I am thinking? Are the choices just that? I suspect there are limits to what donors will do. Maybe not this year, but next year, the year after, etc. Is there any reality here or am I just putting a t*rd in the punch?
Jeff82
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearSD said:

Jeff82 said:

Sankey and Pettiti, it seems to me, are representing conferences where a number of the schools have fans that are not alumni, and root for those teams in the absence of an NFL team.
When you're trying to squeeze every last dollar out of college football, as Sankey and Petitti are doing, "t-shirt fans" are where the money is. The largest TV followings, and thus the largest piles of TV money, will always be with the teams whose casual fan base is 100 or 1000 times larger than their alumni base. Eventually, all of the teams in that category will be in either the SEC or Big Ten.

As for anyone who thinks this financial separation will be limited to football -- ha ha ha. The next big step will be using athletic revenue to pay college athletes, and not only football players. SEC and Big Ten athletic departments will be buying the best athletes in basketball and any other college sport they happen to care about, and sooner or later their leagues will be the only ones that matter in several college sports. Why did the SEC become dominant in college baseball? Because its teams decided to start shoveling piles of money into their own baseball teams, instead of watching Fresno State or Rice or Oregon State win the College World Series. Now multiply that effect over and over once they start paying the athletes directly.
As I've said before, if bifurcation is inevitable, I wish we'd just get on with it, and have one set of teams that are basically pros, and the other set that are supposed to be more akin to traditional student-athletes. If that second system provides them with the $25,000 to $50,000 stipends to support themselves and their familes while they go to school, I'm all for it.

Watching pros is not why i watch college sports. It reminds me of how irritated I would get when Gary Radnich would say he only watched college basketball to see the stars, because they were the future NBA players. That's not why I watch.

Also, I'm not convinced that your argument about basketball and other sports is correct. The difference between football and a lot of the other college sports is that football is basically only played in America, and those other sports are worldwide, making the talent pool much bigger. I think if the SEC and Big10 stay in the NCAA for basketball, there's still opportunity for others to compete with them.
Sebastabear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cal83dls79 said:

I don't disagree with anything you said. I took umbrage to this castigation of Saban ( spelled correctly) as some southerner slave catcher thanks to '01.

My focus now is on road trips to ACC from Maine.
BC and PItt all set

Yes. Thank you. I just voice dictated that into my iPhone and didn't catch that Apple wanted to spell "Saban" as "Sabin". Fixed it.
cal83dls79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sebastabear said:

cal83dls79 said:

I don't disagree with anything you said. I took umbrage to this castigation of Saban ( spelled correctly) as some southerner slave catcher thanks to '01.

My focus now is on road trips to ACC from Maine.
BC and PItt all set

Yes. Thank you. I just voice dictated that into my iPhone and didn't catch that Apple wanted to spell "Saban" as "Sabin". Fixed it.
there are few of us Golden Bears in the great state of Maine. The machinations to explain where you went to school
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.