Gunga la Gunga said:

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I pay far more attention to minor league baseball than to college baseball.

The NFL can drop the hammer whenever it decides to, IMO.

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This may be an unpopular opinion, but both suck, unless you're a dad or a girlfriend hoping your man makes it big.

cal83dls79 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Gunga la Gunga said:

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I pay far more attention to minor league baseball than to college baseball.

The NFL can drop the hammer whenever it decides to, IMO.

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This may be an unpopular opinion, but both suck, unless you're a dad or a girlfriend hoping your man makes it big.

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I don't know. Went to plenty of games at Edwards. saw McGwire, Elway, Peete, Maas, Semien, Kent, Canha, Nady, Booker. Great atmosphere and when in college and afterwards could sneak in copious amounts of beer: and we are discussing cal baseball why? The team this year is killing it, with power and clutch pitching. Need to get out there as well as to the women's softball field.

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Also Barry Bonds at ASU, Kevin Johnson at shortstop for Cal….

I don't follow college baseball but it doesn't seem like there are as many two sport stars these days.

01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

---

His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

---

you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

---

you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

---

Any rational reading of my comment would not leap to the conclusion that I "lumped [Saban] in the slave catcher bucket." Your twisted attempts to suggest it is true does not make it so. What I did was compare Saban's comments with those supporting slavery. But as a Cal alumnus, surely you knew that. As such, I'm not sure why you're insisting on claiming I called Saban a slave catcher, unless you're trolling.

Assuming you're actually confused and not trolling, allow me to sum up the argument: (1) Saban valorized a time when coaches (among other non-athletes) made millions (or billions in total) while those actually on the field made nothing or next to nothing. (2) In this way, he's a reflection of those Southerners who glorify slavery's benefits for the slave owners while ignoring the detriment to the slaves.

Additionally, there's no need to comment on the Southern schools embracing NIL, since that is part of what Saban is lamenting. The criticism of Saban didn't happen in a vacuum. He stated he's upset with how athletes are now paid under NIL. Obviously this includes the Southern schools, many of which he coached against as the Bama head football coach. He's upset Bama's advantage of being able to pay players (albeit, under the table) has been negated since now all teams can pay players through NIL.

Simultaneously, he laments the professionalization of college sports, especially football, now that players are being paid. Never mind that he made tens of millions off their blood, sweat, and tears while they received relative pittances. Somehow, paying coaches (as well as administrators and other non-athletes) millions (or billions) of dollars was not a professionalization of college sports.

calumnus said:

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sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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wc22 said:

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The point is that athletes at Bama were getting paid all through Saban's run.

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and now we have another vehicle that's unregulated

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It was regulated, it just was not enforced and regulated equally. Alabama was paying players, Cal was not.

Najee Harris signed with Alabama over Cal sight unseen, hated Tuscaloosa, fought with Saban over the way he was treated, was homesick for the Bay Area but stuck it out in Alabama "treating it like a job."

Now both Cal and Alabama are paying players. Saban retires and is a critic of the new landscape, but had no issues with the old system that made him immensely wealthy.

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You beat me to the words. The old system was obscene. Whatever Saban is for I am against.

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

Actually, Saban is still cashing in on the legendary career Alabama's unfair advantage of paying players gave him. He's in demand to do commercials for numerous companies. I saw one estimate that he made 5 million dollars last year from the commercials. I doubt that's going away for him. He wouldn't have that if he'd been a .500 coach at an honest school.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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wc22 said:

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The point is that athletes at Bama were getting paid all through Saban's run.

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and now we have another vehicle that's unregulated

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It was regulated, it just was not enforced and regulated equally. Alabama was paying players, Cal was not.

Najee Harris signed with Alabama over Cal sight unseen, hated Tuscaloosa, fought with Saban over the way he was treated, was homesick for the Bay Area but stuck it out in Alabama "treating it like a job."

Now both Cal and Alabama are paying players. Saban retires and is a critic of the new landscape, but had no issues with the old system that made him immensely wealthy.

---

You beat me to the words. The old system was obscene. Whatever Saban is for I am against.

---

His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

Actually, Saban is still cashing in on the legendary career Alabama's unfair advantage of paying players gave him. He's in demand to do commercials for numerous companies. I saw one estimate that he made 5 million dollars last year from the commercials. I doubt that's going away for him. He wouldn't have that if he'd been a .500 coach at an honest school.

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meanwhile Wilcox did a Top Dog plug on KALX

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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wc22 said:

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The point is that athletes at Bama were getting paid all through Saban's run.

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and now we have another vehicle that's unregulated

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It was regulated, it just was not enforced and regulated equally. Alabama was paying players, Cal was not.

Najee Harris signed with Alabama over Cal sight unseen, hated Tuscaloosa, fought with Saban over the way he was treated, was homesick for the Bay Area but stuck it out in Alabama "treating it like a job."

Now both Cal and Alabama are paying players. Saban retires and is a critic of the new landscape, but had no issues with the old system that made him immensely wealthy.

---

You beat me to the words. The old system was obscene. Whatever Saban is for I am against.

---

His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

Actually, Saban is still cashing in on the legendary career Alabama's unfair advantage of paying players gave him. He's in demand to do commercials for numerous companies. I saw one estimate that he made 5 million dollars last year from the commercials. I doubt that's going away for him. He wouldn't have that if he'd been a .500 coach at an honest school.

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Both are true

01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

---

His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

---

you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

---

Any rational reading of my comment would not leap to the conclusion that I "lumped [Saban] in the slave catcher bucket." Your twisted attempts to suggest it is true does not make it so. What I did was compare Saban's comments with those supporting slavery. But as a Cal alumnus, surely you knew that. As such, I'm not sure why you're insisting on claiming I called Saban a slave catcher, unless you're trolling.

Assuming you're actually confused and not trolling, allow me to sum up the argument: (1) Saban valorized a time when coaches (among other non-athletes) made millions (or billions in total) while those actually on the field made nothing or next to nothing. (2) In this way, he's a reflection of those Southerners who glorify slavery's benefits for the slave owners while ignoring the detriment to the slaves.

Additionally, there's no need to comment on the Southern schools embracing NIL, since that is part of what Saban is lamenting. The criticism of Saban didn't happen in a vacuum. He stated he's upset with how athletes are now paid under NIL. Obviously this includes the Southern schools, many of which he coached against as the Bama head football coach. He's upset Bama's advantage of being able to pay players (albeit, under the table) has been negated since now all teams can pay players through NIL.

Simultaneously, he laments the professionalization of college sports, especially football, now that players are being paid. Never mind that he made tens of millions off their blood, sweat, and tears while they received relative pittances. Somehow, paying coaches (as well as administrators and other non-athletes) millions (or billions) of dollars was not a professionalization of college sports.

---

time out. You literally used Saban and slave catcher in the same reference. And you lump and brand all Southerners in a singular bucket. And then ad hominem brand me as a troll.

01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

---

01Bear said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

---

you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

---

Any rational reading of my comment would not leap to the conclusion that I "lumped [Saban] in the slave catcher bucket." Your twisted attempts to suggest it is true does not make it so. What I did was compare Saban's comments with those supporting slavery. But as a Cal alumnus, surely you knew that. As such, I'm not sure why you're insisting on claiming I called Saban a slave catcher, unless you're trolling.

Assuming you're actually confused and not trolling, allow me to sum up the argument: (1) Saban valorized a time when coaches (among other non-athletes) made millions (or billions in total) while those actually on the field made nothing or next to nothing. (2) In this way, he's a reflection of those Southerners who glorify slavery's benefits for the slave owners while ignoring the detriment to the slaves.

Additionally, there's no need to comment on the Southern schools embracing NIL, since that is part of what Saban is lamenting. The criticism of Saban didn't happen in a vacuum. He stated he's upset with how athletes are now paid under NIL. Obviously this includes the Southern schools, many of which he coached against as the Bama head football coach. He's upset Bama's advantage of being able to pay players (albeit, under the table) has been negated since now all teams can pay players through NIL.

Simultaneously, he laments the professionalization of college sports, especially football, now that players are being paid. Never mind that he made tens of millions off their blood, sweat, and tears while they received relative pittances. Somehow, paying coaches (as well as administrators and other non-athletes) millions (or billions) of dollars was not a professionalization of college sports.

---

Saban has been against the way things have headed for a while now. But as long as he was the HC at Alabama he was going to do what he needed to do to win. He was for a 9 game conference schedule when most SEC programs were not.

Did he use the old system to advantage? Sure. But he is a big voice with a big megaphone. I am glad he is now using it for some change. Paying the players is here to stay. So is freedom of movement. Most of the SEC was paying under the table. Now it is above the table. Players looking just for a bag can find that bag a lot of places.

Times change. There needs to be some guardrails in regards to NIL, transfer portal and tampering. I am glad he is willing to take a stance on this and lend his real life expertise.

But if only the pure were allowed to have a POV there would be no voices being heard.

calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Gunga la Gunga said:

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I pay far more attention to minor league baseball than to college baseball.

The NFL can drop the hammer whenever it decides to, IMO.

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This may be an unpopular opinion, but both suck, unless you're a dad or a girlfriend hoping your man makes it big.

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I don't know. Went to plenty of games at Edwards. saw McGwire, Elway, Peete, Maas, Semien, Kent, Canha, Nady, Booker. Great atmosphere and when in college and afterwards could sneak in copious amounts of beer: and we are discussing cal baseball why? The team this year is killing it, with power and clutch pitching. Need to get out there as well as to the women's softball field.

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Also Barry Bonds at ASU, Kevin Johnson at shortstop for Cal….

I don't follow college baseball but it doesn't seem like there are as many two sport stars these days.

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Individual skill and ability level has gone through the roof for major sports. In the MLB basically every starter who isn't a wily, junkball vet is hitting 95 on their fastball when 15 years ago that would be considered plus velocity. Prospects these days need to specialize or else they fall behind, which in turns raises the overall skill level. For example, QB prospects who used to play baseball in the spring are now doing 7 on 7 passing camps, or the reverse where pitching prospects are skipping football and doing fall travel ball instead. Basketball prospects are in the AAU circuit instead of playing other sports.

cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

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He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

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It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

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uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

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Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

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ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

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Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

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He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

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Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

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you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

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Any rational reading of my comment would not leap to the conclusion that I "lumped [Saban] in the slave catcher bucket." Your twisted attempts to suggest it is true does not make it so. What I did was compare Saban's comments with those supporting slavery. But as a Cal alumnus, surely you knew that. As such, I'm not sure why you're insisting on claiming I called Saban a slave catcher, unless you're trolling.

Assuming you're actually confused and not trolling, allow me to sum up the argument: (1) Saban valorized a time when coaches (among other non-athletes) made millions (or billions in total) while those actually on the field made nothing or next to nothing. (2) In this way, he's a reflection of those Southerners who glorify slavery's benefits for the slave owners while ignoring the detriment to the slaves.

Additionally, there's no need to comment on the Southern schools embracing NIL, since that is part of what Saban is lamenting. The criticism of Saban didn't happen in a vacuum. He stated he's upset with how athletes are now paid under NIL. Obviously this includes the Southern schools, many of which he coached against as the Bama head football coach. He's upset Bama's advantage of being able to pay players (albeit, under the table) has been negated since now all teams can pay players through NIL.

Simultaneously, he laments the professionalization of college sports, especially football, now that players are being paid. Never mind that he made tens of millions off their blood, sweat, and tears while they received relative pittances. Somehow, paying coaches (as well as administrators and other non-athletes) millions (or billions) of dollars was not a professionalization of college sports.

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time out. You literally used Saban and slave catcher in the same reference. And you lump and brand all Southerners in a singular bucket. And then ad hominem brand me as a troll.

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Using one to compare to another does not mean one is the other. Surely, you must understand this. Any reasonable person over the age of eight understands this. Given your username implies you graduated from DLS in 1979 and Cal in 1983, I can reasonably assume you are older than eight. Of course, I would also have to assume you are a reasonable being and not trolling. To that end, I even specifically stated my assumption. Moreover, I never called you a troll; rather, I explained I could mot understand your (possibly intentional?) misconstruing of my argument.

As for Southerners, I did clarify that the Southerners to whom the reference applied were those who valorized slavery. Having lived in the South before, I am well aware of how prevalent that idea is among Southerners. Heck, many of them still try to argue that the battle flag of the Confederacy is somehow about heritage without acknowledging that the heritage was one of fighting a war to maintain slavery as a way of life.

calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Gunga la Gunga said:

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I pay far more attention to minor league baseball than to college baseball.

The NFL can drop the hammer whenever it decides to, IMO.

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This may be an unpopular opinion, but both suck, unless you're a dad or a girlfriend hoping your man makes it big.

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I don't know. Went to plenty of games at Edwards. saw McGwire, Elway, Peete, Maas, Semien, Kent, Canha, Nady, Booker. Great atmosphere and when in college and afterwards could sneak in copious amounts of beer: and we are discussing cal baseball why? The team this year is killing it, with power and clutch pitching. Need to get out there as well as to the women's softball field.

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Also Barry Bonds at ASU, Kevin Johnson at shortstop for Cal….

I don't follow college baseball but it doesn't seem like there are as many two sport stars these days.

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Kyler comes to mind. Cal had a few 2 sports, Tony G and good lord the other tight end who played hoops? And then a few track and field guys including Javhid and the other 200 guy. As you can see my name recall is not great. Total respect for those kids . Huge commitment. My brother did track and field and x-country and chem-E at cal and flamed

calumnus said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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wc22 said:

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The point is that athletes at Bama were getting paid all through Saban's run.

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and now we have another vehicle that's unregulated

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It was regulated, it just was not enforced and regulated equally. Alabama was paying players, Cal was not.

Najee Harris signed with Alabama over Cal sight unseen, hated Tuscaloosa, fought with Saban over the way he was treated, was homesick for the Bay Area but stuck it out in Alabama "treating it like a job."

Now both Cal and Alabama are paying players. Saban retires and is a critic of the new landscape, but had no issues with the old system that made him immensely wealthy.

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You beat me to the words. The old system was obscene. Whatever Saban is for I am against.

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

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Actually, Saban is still cashing in on the legendary career Alabama's unfair advantage of paying players gave him. He's in demand to do commercials for numerous companies. I saw one estimate that he made 5 million dollars last year from the commercials. I doubt that's going away for him. He wouldn't have that if he'd been a .500 coach at an honest school.

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Both are true

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you mean the Top Dog Plug?

01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

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He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

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uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

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Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

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ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

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Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

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He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

---

you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

---

Any rational reading of my comment would not leap to the conclusion that I "lumped [Saban] in the slave catcher bucket." Your twisted attempts to suggest it is true does not make it so. What I did was compare Saban's comments with those supporting slavery. But as a Cal alumnus, surely you knew that. As such, I'm not sure why you're insisting on claiming I called Saban a slave catcher, unless you're trolling.

Assuming you're actually confused and not trolling, allow me to sum up the argument: (1) Saban valorized a time when coaches (among other non-athletes) made millions (or billions in total) while those actually on the field made nothing or next to nothing. (2) In this way, he's a reflection of those Southerners who glorify slavery's benefits for the slave owners while ignoring the detriment to the slaves.

Additionally, there's no need to comment on the Southern schools embracing NIL, since that is part of what Saban is lamenting. The criticism of Saban didn't happen in a vacuum. He stated he's upset with how athletes are now paid under NIL. Obviously this includes the Southern schools, many of which he coached against as the Bama head football coach. He's upset Bama's advantage of being able to pay players (albeit, under the table) has been negated since now all teams can pay players through NIL.

Simultaneously, he laments the professionalization of college sports, especially football, now that players are being paid. Never mind that he made tens of millions off their blood, sweat, and tears while they received relative pittances. Somehow, paying coaches (as well as administrators and other non-athletes) millions (or billions) of dollars was not a professionalization of college sports.

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time out. You literally used Saban and slave catcher in the same reference. And you lump and brand all Southerners in a singular bucket. And then ad hominem brand me as a troll.

---

Using one to compare to another does not mean one is the other. Surely, you must understand this. Any reasonable person over the age of eight understands this. Given your username implies you graduated from DLS in 1979 and Cal in 1983, I can reasonably assume you are older than eight. Of course, I would also have to assume you are a reasonable being and not trolling. To that end, I even specifically stated my assumption. Moreover, I never called you a troll; rather, I explained I could mot understand your (possibly intentional?) misconstruing of my argument.

As for Southerners, I did clarify that the Southerners to whom the reference applied were those who valorized slavery. Having lived in the South before, I am well aware of how prevalent that idea is among Southerners. Heck, many of them still try to argue that the battle flag of the Confederacy is somehow about heritage without acknowledging that the heritage was one of fighting a war to maintain slavery as a way of life.

---

How about

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how gas chambers and concentration camps were only good for Nazis.

Does that work as an analogy that in no way implies anything other than the previous system wasn't fair to athletes but was fair to coaches like Saban?

oski003 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

---

you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

---

Any rational reading of my comment would not leap to the conclusion that I "lumped [Saban] in the slave catcher bucket." Your twisted attempts to suggest it is true does not make it so. What I did was compare Saban's comments with those supporting slavery. But as a Cal alumnus, surely you knew that. As such, I'm not sure why you're insisting on claiming I called Saban a slave catcher, unless you're trolling.

Assuming you're actually confused and not trolling, allow me to sum up the argument: (1) Saban valorized a time when coaches (among other non-athletes) made millions (or billions in total) while those actually on the field made nothing or next to nothing. (2) In this way, he's a reflection of those Southerners who glorify slavery's benefits for the slave owners while ignoring the detriment to the slaves.

Additionally, there's no need to comment on the Southern schools embracing NIL, since that is part of what Saban is lamenting. The criticism of Saban didn't happen in a vacuum. He stated he's upset with how athletes are now paid under NIL. Obviously this includes the Southern schools, many of which he coached against as the Bama head football coach. He's upset Bama's advantage of being able to pay players (albeit, under the table) has been negated since now all teams can pay players through NIL.

Simultaneously, he laments the professionalization of college sports, especially football, now that players are being paid. Never mind that he made tens of millions off their blood, sweat, and tears while they received relative pittances. Somehow, paying coaches (as well as administrators and other non-athletes) millions (or billions) of dollars was not a professionalization of college sports.

---

time out. You literally used Saban and slave catcher in the same reference. And you lump and brand all Southerners in a singular bucket. And then ad hominem brand me as a troll.

---

Using one to compare to another does not mean one is the other. Surely, you must understand this. Any reasonable person over the age of eight understands this. Given your username implies you graduated from DLS in 1979 and Cal in 1983, I can reasonably assume you are older than eight. Of course, I would also have to assume you are a reasonable being and not trolling. To that end, I even specifically stated my assumption. Moreover, I never called you a troll; rather, I explained I could mot understand your (possibly intentional?) misconstruing of my argument.

As for Southerners, I did clarify that the Southerners to whom the reference applied were those who valorized slavery. Having lived in the South before, I am well aware of how prevalent that idea is among Southerners. Heck, many of them still try to argue that the battle flag of the Confederacy is somehow about heritage without acknowledging that the heritage was one of fighting a war to maintain slavery as a way of life.

---

How about

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how gas chambers and concentration camps were only good for Nazis.

Does that work as an analogy that in no way implies anything other than the previous system wasn't fair to athletes but was fair to coaches like Saban?

---

If it works for you, go for it. I tend to prefer the slavery analogy as both have the exploitation factor missing in the gas chamber and concentration camp analogy. Then again, IIRC, some Nazi concentration camps also ran on forced (read: slave) labor. So I suppose I can see the concentration camp analogy.

That said, unlike Saban (and that particular Southern culture), today's Germans don't valorize the exploitative system from the past (i.e, the concentration camps). Saban valorizes the system where the (non-cheating) student athletes received no payment while the coaches, administrators, league officials, etc. all made millions/billions off the work of the athletes. Similarly, the Southern culture still romanticizes slavery and glorifies those who fought to keep it.

01Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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01Bear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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His comments are incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, whether he is still making obscene $millions at Alabama or just retired, living off the obscene $millions he made at Alabama and waxing nostalgic for the system that gave him that wealth.

---

He's a reflection of the South where they still wax nostalgic about the system that gave white plantation owners tremendous wealth at the expense of the slaves they exploited and glorify those who died to maintain that system.

---

It is very similar. The nostalgia of some for a time when things might have been better for them at the expense of others which seems epidemic these days.

---

uh, but Southern teams have fully embraced NIL and are on the forefront so most of this argument rings hollow

---

Southern teams are just able to be public with what they used to do behind closed doors: (have boosters) pay their players. More to the point, Saban is waxing nostalgic about an era where that was the purview of only the cheaters and not practices by all. He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

In other words, Saban's disingenuousness about unpaid athletes is what's on display. Much like Southern disingenuousness about slavery being beneficial for slaves.

---

ok, you jumped the shark calling saban a slave catcher. Have you discussed this with his players?

---

Are you intentionally misconstruing what I wrote? Where exactly did I call Saban a slave catcher?

---

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how slavery was only good for slaveowners and slave catchers.

---

Nowhere in that statement does it state Saban is a slave catcher. Rather, it emphasizes the point that Saban is duplicitous and disingenuous about the benefits of unpaid student athletes, much like how many Southerners are about the benefits of slavery.

---

you clearly lumped him into the slave catcher bucket. You also conveniently avoided the fact that southern schools have fully embraced NIL.

---

Any rational reading of my comment would not leap to the conclusion that I "lumped [Saban] in the slave catcher bucket." Your twisted attempts to suggest it is true does not make it so. What I did was compare Saban's comments with those supporting slavery. But as a Cal alumnus, surely you knew that. As such, I'm not sure why you're insisting on claiming I called Saban a slave catcher, unless you're trolling.

Assuming you're actually confused and not trolling, allow me to sum up the argument: (1) Saban valorized a time when coaches (among other non-athletes) made millions (or billions in total) while those actually on the field made nothing or next to nothing. (2) In this way, he's a reflection of those Southerners who glorify slavery's benefits for the slave owners while ignoring the detriment to the slaves.

Additionally, there's no need to comment on the Southern schools embracing NIL, since that is part of what Saban is lamenting. The criticism of Saban didn't happen in a vacuum. He stated he's upset with how athletes are now paid under NIL. Obviously this includes the Southern schools, many of which he coached against as the Bama head football coach. He's upset Bama's advantage of being able to pay players (albeit, under the table) has been negated since now all teams can pay players through NIL.

Simultaneously, he laments the professionalization of college sports, especially football, now that players are being paid. Never mind that he made tens of millions off their blood, sweat, and tears while they received relative pittances. Somehow, paying coaches (as well as administrators and other non-athletes) millions (or billions) of dollars was not a professionalization of college sports.

---

time out. You literally used Saban and slave catcher in the same reference. And you lump and brand all Southerners in a singular bucket. And then ad hominem brand me as a troll.

---

Using one to compare to another does not mean one is the other. Surely, you must understand this. Any reasonable person over the age of eight understands this. Given your username implies you graduated from DLS in 1979 and Cal in 1983, I can reasonably assume you are older than eight. Of course, I would also have to assume you are a reasonable being and not trolling. To that end, I even specifically stated my assumption. Moreover, I never called you a troll; rather, I explained I could mot understand your (possibly intentional?) misconstruing of my argument.

As for Southerners, I did clarify that the Southerners to whom the reference applied were those who valorized slavery. Having lived in the South before, I am well aware of how prevalent that idea is among Southerners. Heck, many of them still try to argue that the battle flag of the Confederacy is somehow about heritage without acknowledging that the heritage was one of fighting a war to maintain slavery as a way of life.

---

How about

He's also baldfacedly claiming the previous system was better when it was only better for coaches and cheaters, just like how gas chambers and concentration camps were only good for Nazis.

Does that work as an analogy that in no way implies anything other than the previous system wasn't fair to athletes but was fair to coaches like Saban?

---

If it works for you, go for it. I tend to prefer the slavery analogy as both have the exploitation factor missing in the gas chamber and concentration camp analogy. Then again, IIRC, some Nazi concentration camps also ran on forced (read: slave) labor. So I suppose I can see the concentration camp analogy.

That said, unlike Saban (and that particular Southern culture), today's Germans don't valorize the exploitative system from the past (i.e, the concentration camps). Saban valorizes the system where the (non-cheating) student athletes received no payment while the coaches, administrators, league officials, etc. all made millions/billions off the work of the athletes. Similarly, the Southern culture still romanticizes slavery and glorifies those who fought to keep it.

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Good response. Your analogy was specifically about the way some people romanticize a past that favored them (or people they identify with) at the expense of others and helped build their present wealth (or "lost" wealth). There are other analogies (Romanticization of British colonialism, MAGA, Neo-Nazis, Putin and the USSR…) but the long time romanticization of "the Antebellum Period" and the "Civil War" by many white Southerners is the most obvious choice when we are talking about Saban's romanticization of the system that allowed his run at Alabama and made him an extremely wealthy man.

The objective should not be to restore the old "amateur" system but make the evolving new system as equitable for the players as possible while maintaining the premise that they are student-athletes representing the universities they attend.

Boy I love your optimism loaded with caveats
" The objective should not be to restore the old "amateur" system but make the evolving new system as equitable for the players as possible while maintaining the premise that they are student-athletes representing the universities they attend."

I think you're being a bit disingenuous yourself 01Bear. You're complaining about the new system of NIL and how some teams now have a huge financial advantage over teams/schools that do not have as robust an NIL program as Alabama. It seems you want a return to the "old days" when players were student athletes and it was only a chosen few who were paying players under the table. But you're complaining about that too.

So - what system do you want? Saban is only speaking truth through his own experience. And I think he's also saying that he's too old for this sh*t. He knows the game is about to pass by him. He doesn't know or is familiar with athletes that are now expecting a pitch for playing time and money. Certainly he has been a broker of that, no question. But I don't think Saban is forgetting about what brought him success. He just doesn't want to deal with it anymore.

oski003 said:

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01Bear said:

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I honestly have no idea.

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Fify. Let's try to keep politics off the football board.

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Lol! If recognizing Southern nostalgia for Jim Crow and disenfranchised women is politics, then I guess you'd be right. Somehow, I suspect those who love the South or share those same sentiments would argue it's not politics, it's heritage.

cal83dls79 said:

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I'll leave it at when 01 states "have no idea" . It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board lump southerners in a crap bucket. At least I lived there, my father did business there and brothers who went to reputable schools there' and still have family there. Not a good look for cal

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Lol! I lived there, too! If you bothered to read my earlier comments, you would've seen that.* I know first-hand about the Southern fondness for the Confederacy; the belief in white racial superiority, which usually shows up as negative remarks about black and brown people; and the belief that women should be little more than extensions of their men, without agency of their own. I'm also familiar with the hypocritical "Southern charm" that's best reflected in the common phrase "bless your heart" where folks pretend to be friendly to a person but are silently judging and diminishing him. I saw it all play out when I lived there.

To be certain, there are genuinely good people in the South, too. People who are sincere and helpful to their neighbors. People who believe in equality between the races and the genders. People who understand the harms that generations of slavery, racism, and misogyny have wrought. People who work to undo that harm. But these aren't the people who glorify the Confederacy. They're not the ones who wax nostalgic about how great
America was during the Jim Crow era. They're not the ones stripping women of their hard earned civil rights. In short, they're not the ones whose culture Nick Saban's comments reflect.

* It's pathetic and embarrassing when people on this board make up random bullcrap and intentionally misrepresent what what others wrote. Not a good look for Cal.