Conference Realignment: FSU and Clemson will not leave after this year

2,901 Views | 11 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by BearSD
golden sloth
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"Amid the ongoing speculation around college football realignment, it appears Clemson and Florida State have made a final decision about their membership in the ACC, at least in regards to their immediate future in the conference.

There is no indication that either school will notify the ACC that they plan to leave the conference at the end of the upcoming 2024-25 football season, according to ESPN."

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/news/college-football-realignment-clemson-florida-state-acc-deadline-decision

I still think two super conferences are the future, and FSU and Clemson (and a few others) will leave for the B1G and SEC eventually, but apparently they are staying put for at least another year.
calumnus
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golden sloth said:

"Amid the ongoing speculation around college football realignment, it appears Clemson and Florida State have made a final decision about their membership in the ACC, at least in regards to their immediate future in the conference.

There is no indication that either school will notify the ACC that they plan to leave the conference at the end of the upcoming 2024-25 football season, according to ESPN."

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/news/college-football-realignment-clemson-florida-state-acc-deadline-decision

I still think two super conferences are the future, and FSU and Clemson (and a few others) will leave for the B1G and SEC eventually, but apparently they are staying put for at least another year.


It will largely depend on: 1) how the expanded playoffs go and 2) what ESPN and Fox want 3) government intervention. Right now, there are contracts in place.
sycasey
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IMO this probably can't happen until the B1G contract is up in 2030 (or maybe just before), unless FSU manages to get an extremely favorable ruling in their lawsuit against the ACC.
golden sloth
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sycasey said:

IMO this probably can't happen until the B1G contract is up in 2030 (or maybe just before), unless FSU manages to get an extremely favorable ruling in their lawsuit against the ACC.


Generally I agree, with all the speculation of the conference's imminent collapse, it was noteworthy that nothing would change until 2026 at the earliest.
CNHTH
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golden sloth said:

"Amid the ongoing speculation around college football realignment, it appears Clemson and Florida State have made a final decision about their membership in the ACC, at least in regards to their immediate future in the conference.

There is no indication that either school will notify the ACC that they plan to leave the conference at the end of the upcoming 2024-25 football season, according to ESPN."

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/news/college-football-realignment-clemson-florida-state-acc-deadline-decision

I still think two super conferences are the future, and FSU and Clemson (and a few others) will leave for the B1G and SEC eventually, but apparently they are staying put for at least another year.

I disagree.
The B1G is in far worse shape from both a financial perspective and a footprint perspective.
The analysis I've run shows the ACC leading both the SEC (slightly) and the B1G (bigly) from both a recruiting pool perspective, a media market size perspective, an uncontested metro area perspective, disparity of quality of teams, etc, etc, etc
They appear to be in good shape on paper because of viewership but in reality viewership for them is driven by fox pushing the b1g down the entire country's collective throats.
If Cal had a weekly nationally televised afternoon game we too would have viewership that large. Which is why I ignore it. It is not linear to anything other than who fox wants you to watch. So I retort back to potentials. And in terms of potentials the acc is positioned far better.
Also, I haven't changed my tone since the Apple talks of a year plus ago during the p12s demise. Streaming is the future. And therefore consumer choice is the future. And from the outside looking in fox media as a whole is very poorly positioned in that area. Their entire profit model is based on regional tv provider subscriptions. If you take that away they are in the hole to a yearly tune of roughly 2.5 billion if they have to rely solely on advertising. The same is not true of espn and Disney because they are paying triple the assessed value of the gors. They are paying market value and as such are in a good position whether on streaming or cable. I think in the next year or two we will start to see fox grasping at straws with the b1g to salvage anything before the inevitable happens. They are operating like they have an unlimited supply of cash and the hard truth is they don't.
MTbear22
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CNHTH said:



I disagree.
The B1G is in far worse shape from both a financial perspective and a footprint perspective.
The analysis I've run shows the ACC leading both the SEC (slightly) and the B1G (bigly)
Then your "analysis" is wrong. Bigly. This couple of sentences is downright laughable.
BearSD
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CNHTH said:

golden sloth said:



If Cal had a weekly nationally televised afternoon game we too would have viewership that large. Which is why I ignore it. It is not linear to anything other than who fox wants you to watch.
I'm not happy about it, but what matters more than anything else in college sports is money.

Who Fox wants you to watch matters because Fox pays billions to the Big Ten and engineered the contracts by which CBS and NBC will also pay billions to the Big Ten. Cal and Stanford would be in the Big Ten if Fox wanted you to watch those teams.

Cal and Stanford are fortunate that ESPN thinks they are worth ACC-level money. UU, CU, UA, and ASU got similarly lucky. OSU and WSU did not. So yeah, what the TV bean counters want us to watch matters, unfortunately.
golden sloth
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CNHTH said:

golden sloth said:

"Amid the ongoing speculation around college football realignment, it appears Clemson and Florida State have made a final decision about their membership in the ACC, at least in regards to their immediate future in the conference.

There is no indication that either school will notify the ACC that they plan to leave the conference at the end of the upcoming 2024-25 football season, according to ESPN."

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/news/college-football-realignment-clemson-florida-state-acc-deadline-decision

I still think two super conferences are the future, and FSU and Clemson (and a few others) will leave for the B1G and SEC eventually, but apparently they are staying put for at least another year.

I disagree.
The B1G is in far worse shape from both a financial perspective and a footprint perspective.
The analysis I've run shows the ACC leading both the SEC (slightly) and the B1G (bigly) from both a recruiting pool perspective, a media market size perspective, an uncontested metro area perspective, disparity of quality of teams, etc, etc, etc
They appear to be in good shape on paper because of viewership but in reality viewership for them is driven by fox pushing the b1g down the entire country's collective throats.
If Cal had a weekly nationally televised afternoon game we too would have viewership that large. Which is why I ignore it. It is not linear to anything other than who fox wants you to watch. So I retort back to potentials. And in terms of potentials the acc is positioned far better.
Also, I haven't changed my tone since the Apple talks of a year plus ago during the p12s demise. Streaming is the future. And therefore consumer choice is the future. And from the outside looking in fox media as a whole is very poorly positioned in that area. Their entire profit model is based on regional tv provider subscriptions. If you take that away they are in the hole to a yearly tune of roughly 2.5 billion if they have to rely solely on advertising. The same is not true of espn and Disney because they are paying triple the assessed value of the gors. They are paying market value and as such are in a good position whether on streaming or cable. I think in the next year or two we will start to see fox grasping at straws with the b1g to salvage anything before the inevitable happens. They are operating like they have an unlimited supply of cash and the hard truth is they don't.


I disagree with you about the B1G. If you look at the TV viewership numbers (which isn't all about TV window) and actual game attendance, the B1G performs really well (with only one or two outliers). I dont see them collapsing anytime soon.
sycasey
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golden sloth said:

CNHTH said:

golden sloth said:

"Amid the ongoing speculation around college football realignment, it appears Clemson and Florida State have made a final decision about their membership in the ACC, at least in regards to their immediate future in the conference.

There is no indication that either school will notify the ACC that they plan to leave the conference at the end of the upcoming 2024-25 football season, according to ESPN."

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/news/college-football-realignment-clemson-florida-state-acc-deadline-decision

I still think two super conferences are the future, and FSU and Clemson (and a few others) will leave for the B1G and SEC eventually, but apparently they are staying put for at least another year.

I disagree.
The B1G is in far worse shape from both a financial perspective and a footprint perspective.
The analysis I've run shows the ACC leading both the SEC (slightly) and the B1G (bigly) from both a recruiting pool perspective, a media market size perspective, an uncontested metro area perspective, disparity of quality of teams, etc, etc, etc
They appear to be in good shape on paper because of viewership but in reality viewership for them is driven by fox pushing the b1g down the entire country's collective throats.
If Cal had a weekly nationally televised afternoon game we too would have viewership that large. Which is why I ignore it. It is not linear to anything other than who fox wants you to watch. So I retort back to potentials. And in terms of potentials the acc is positioned far better.
Also, I haven't changed my tone since the Apple talks of a year plus ago during the p12s demise. Streaming is the future. And therefore consumer choice is the future. And from the outside looking in fox media as a whole is very poorly positioned in that area. Their entire profit model is based on regional tv provider subscriptions. If you take that away they are in the hole to a yearly tune of roughly 2.5 billion if they have to rely solely on advertising. The same is not true of espn and Disney because they are paying triple the assessed value of the gors. They are paying market value and as such are in a good position whether on streaming or cable. I think in the next year or two we will start to see fox grasping at straws with the b1g to salvage anything before the inevitable happens. They are operating like they have an unlimited supply of cash and the hard truth is they don't.


I disagree with you about the B1G. If you look at the TV viewership numbers (which isn't all about TV window) and actual game attendance, the B1G performs really well (with only one or two outliers). I dont see them collapsing anytime soon.

They have enough big brands that people will watch, regardless of the local TV market. The SEC is in a similar position. Yeah there is some dead weight at the bottom of each league, but they can easily command big money, whether or not it's Fox paying it.
CNHTH
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BearSD said:

CNHTH said:

golden sloth said:



If Cal had a weekly nationally televised afternoon game we too would have viewership that large. Which is why I ignore it. It is not linear to anything other than who fox wants you to watch.
I'm not happy about it, but what matters more than anything else in college sports is money.

Who Fox wants you to watch matters because Fox pays billions to the Big Ten and engineered the contracts by which CBS and NBC will also pay billions to the Big Ten. Cal and Stanford would be in the Big Ten if Fox wanted you to watch those teams.

Cal and Stanford are fortunate that ESPN thinks they are worth ACC-level money. UU, CU, UA, and ASU got similarly lucky. OSU and WSU did not. So yeah, what the TV bean counters want us to watch matters, unfortunately.

I don't disagree with you on most but the glaring issue for me is…
The big ten sold its gor to fox, nbc, and cbs for a collective 1.1 billion per year.
The big ten has 98 games that qualify for that each year. Each game is 4 quarters. Each quarter has roughly 4 commercial breaks. Each commercial break has an average of 3 network (not local commercials). Fox commercials on cfb saturday (the prime time national slot are 110k per)… so even if we use the high end for commercial revenue on national games… we get 510 million in ad revenue across 4704 commercials split between 3 networks meaning the valuation is half of what those 3 paid.
In the case of fox they paid 300 million for 16 games my guess is they will all be prime time so 110k per ad seems fair. Let's say they have 5 commercial breaks per quarter. That's 141mm in ad revenue in those games. And again (and even worse) it appears on paper that they paid more than twice the assessed value. Imagine being the poor guy who has to run the fox networks audits?
Presently they turn a slight profit because of the money they get from Comcast and other regional providers for subscriptions which are bundled with all of the fox channels. There is no fox sports stand alone option you have to buy the whole shebang.
And in a streaming scenario. Which is inevitable. They don't get the extra money from regional carriers so they would have to pass on that bill to consumers. Which in the case of the big 10 is about 2 million viewer average per school. So essentially even if they unbundled and sold fox big ten as a stand alone they would have to sell it to all 2 million viewers for 25 bucks a pop and force the viewers to sit through even more advertising than thru already do just to turn a profit. But that's actually not the reality.
You would have fox, cbs, and nbc separate; with fox having to charge viewers for streaming separately.
And the reality with fox is that if you include the bundle model they use they are in the hole 4-5 billion a year without regionals. Which means they would need to charge viewers 80 dollars a year for Fox News and fox sports.
I dunno. It doesn't seem like it pencils from what I've seen and at face value it appears they paid double the gors actual value which is ironic because the big ten gor was sold for roughly double the value of every other p5 gor. Meaning the big ten isn't actually worth double, fox just paid double.
Which if I was an auditor would be a huge red flag in addition to the rise of streaming live media.
golden sloth
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CNHTH said:

BearSD said:

CNHTH said:

golden sloth said:



If Cal had a weekly nationally televised afternoon game we too would have viewership that large. Which is why I ignore it. It is not linear to anything other than who fox wants you to watch.
I'm not happy about it, but what matters more than anything else in college sports is money.

Who Fox wants you to watch matters because Fox pays billions to the Big Ten and engineered the contracts by which CBS and NBC will also pay billions to the Big Ten. Cal and Stanford would be in the Big Ten if Fox wanted you to watch those teams.

Cal and Stanford are fortunate that ESPN thinks they are worth ACC-level money. UU, CU, UA, and ASU got similarly lucky. OSU and WSU did not. So yeah, what the TV bean counters want us to watch matters, unfortunately.

I don't disagree with you on most but the glaring issue for me is…
The big ten sold its gor to fox, nbc, and cbs for a collective 1.1 billion per year.
The big ten has 98 games that qualify for that each year. Each game is 4 quarters. Each quarter has roughly 4 commercial breaks. Each commercial break has an average of 3 network (not local commercials). Fox commercials on cfb saturday (the prime time national slot are 110k per)… so even if we use the high end for commercial revenue on national games… we get 510 million in ad revenue across 4704 commercials split between 3 networks meaning the valuation is half of what those 3 paid.
In the case of fox they paid 300 million for 16 games my guess is they will all be prime time so 110k per ad seems fair. Let's say they have 5 commercial breaks per quarter. That's 141mm in ad revenue in those games. And again (and even worse) it appears on paper that they paid more than twice the assessed value. Imagine being the poor guy who has to run the fox networks audits?
Presently they turn a slight profit because of the money they get from Comcast and other regional providers for subscriptions which are bundled with all of the fox channels. There is no fox sports stand alone option you have to buy the whole shebang.
And in a streaming scenario. Which is inevitable. They don't get the extra money from regional carriers so they would have to pass on that bill to consumers. Which in the case of the big 10 is about 2 million viewer average per school. So essentially even if they unbundled and sold fox big ten as a stand alone they would have to sell it to all 2 million viewers for 25 bucks a pop and force the viewers to sit through even more advertising than thru already do just to turn a profit. But that's actually not the reality.
You would have fox, cbs, and nbc separate; with fox having to charge viewers for streaming separately.
And the reality with fox is that if you include the bundle model they use they are in the hole 4-5 billion a year without regionals. Which means they would need to charge viewers 80 dollars a year for Fox News and fox sports.
I dunno. It doesn't seem like it pencils from what I've seen and at face value it appears they paid double the gors actual value which is ironic because the big ten gor was sold for roughly double the value of every other p5 gor. Meaning the big ten isn't actually worth double, fox just paid double.
Which if I was an auditor would be a huge red flag in addition to the rise of streaming live media.



Fox's streaming network is coming. It's called Venu, and they are trying to get it launched before the NFL season. Venu is trying to be the one stop streaming network for sports and includes Fox, Espn, TNT and others. I believe the rumors are saying it will be roughly $70 to $80 a month, but will also be bundled to other streaming services.

Also note, there is a lot still to be determined.

https://www.venu.com/
BearSD
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CNHTH said:

BearSD said:

CNHTH said:





I dunno. It doesn't seem like it pencils from what I've seen and at face value it appears they paid double the gors actual value which is ironic because the big ten gor was sold for roughly double the value of every other p5 gor. Meaning the big ten isn't actually worth double, fox just paid double.
Which if I was an auditor would be a huge red flag in addition to the rise of streaming live media.
Fox got CBS and NBC to pay a large part of the Big Ten's price, even if it was an overpay. They got the benefit of locking ESPN out of the Big Ten and the LA market, in retaliation for ESPN grabbing an exclusive over the entire SEC and the only college football teams Texas fans really care about.

And, if TV eventually decides to stop paying so much to broadcast college sports, the teams outside the Big Ten and SEC will suffer much more than those inside those two conferences. Everyone on the outside will be selling their TV rights for pennies just to get their games on the air, like OSU and WSU are doing now.
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