Cal88 said:

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calumnus said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Cal88 said:

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Fox' conference win percentage at Cal was 21%, Wilcox is not nearly that bad.

What is Wilcox' buyout this year, the next and in 26?

At this point, we're better off putting a fraction of what we would pay for his buyout into the NIL budget.

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JW is owed basically $5M each year the next three years (25, 26, 27). Usually a coach can be bought out with a lump sum payout with a discount on the $15M+ owed (unless you are Bobby Bonilla you usually want the cash up front when you separate from an org). I don't know what the going rate is for a discount, but I would think you could buy him out for like $12.5M in lump sum? Not too much for a Cal football fan NVIDIA exec right?

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Or early NVDA stock owner who never sold. Could have been me.

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Someone in that enviable situation could donate their appreciated stock to the cause and avoid capital gains taxes, even get a nice write off on their income taxes.

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Superwealthy Cal boosters could donate $10+ million to have their name on new facilities for posterity, but to do that just to settle a horrible buyout clause seems a bit unrealistic IMHO.

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It happens at most other schools.

Econ141 said:

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Strykur said:

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We're 60 games away from being left out of the super league and if that happens there will be no money, and we are quibbling over $15 million?

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100%

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We are because that's a lot of money to fan board lurkers. For billionaires, it's lunch.

Strykur said:

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We're 60 games away from being left out of the super league and if that happens there will be no money, and we are quibbling over $15 million?

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$15 million is not all that's being quibbled over.
There's a post on the premium board that pretty much details the financial issues of the biggest picture.
And it's by the guy who knows more about this than all of us put together.

Not pushing the premium board but the real truth is in that post, whether you agree with it or not.

dimitrig said:

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Econ141 said:

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Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

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That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

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Exactly. They've played a very soft schedule. Nobody in the top 25. Let's see how they do against the Buckeyes this weekend.

Alkiadt said:

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dimitrig said:

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Econ141 said:

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Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

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That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

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Exactly. They've played a very soft schedule. Nobody in the top 25. Let's see how they do against the Buckeyes this weekend.

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Does not matter, Curt Cignetti won't be staying in college very long

dimitrig said:

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Econ141 said:

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Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

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That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

---

Indiana's B1G payout is $70 million per year. It is not such a bad gamble to lock him in after the season he has had. It would be more like us locking in Tedford through season 9 after his first year than our locking in Wilcox through season 11 after his 5th year.

bearsandgiants said:

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Econ141 said:

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Strykur said:

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We're 60 games away from being left out of the super league and if that happens there will be no money, and we are quibbling over $15 million?

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100%

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We are because that's a lot of money to fan board lurkers. For billionaires, it's lunch.

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None of the dozen plus Berkeley billionaire grads are Cal fans.

calumnus said:

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dimitrig said:

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Econ141 said:

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Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

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That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

---

Indiana's B1G payout is $70 million per year. It is not such a bad gamble to lock him in after the season he has had. It would be more like us locking in Tedford through season 9 after his first year than our locking in Wilcox through season 11 after his 5th year.

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Long-term guaranteed contracts without a buyout are almost always a bad idea.

That puts him in the top 10 highest paid coaches and doubles his current salary. Why? Indiana isn't going to become a college football power with or without him. Give him a 5 year contract max.

dimitrig said:

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Strykur said:

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dimitrig said:

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calumnus said:

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dimitrig said:

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Econ141 said:

---

Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

---

That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

---

Indiana's B1G payout is $70 million per year. It is not such a bad gamble to lock him in after the season he has had. It would be more like us locking in Tedford through season 9 after his first year than our locking in Wilcox through season 11 after his 5th year.

---

Long-term guaranteed contracts without a buyout are almost always a bad idea.

That puts him in the top 10 highest paid coaches and doubles his current salary. Why? Indiana isn't going to become a college football power with or without him. Give him a 5 year contract max.

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Read this little nugget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Hoosiers_football

Quote:

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Indiana University has the most losses of any Division I (FBS or FCS) football program (713), and also the fourth worst winning percentage of any FBS team with over 1,000 games played (.421).

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He took over that, and so far has delivered 11 wins (they will blast Purdue in their final home game), their first double-digit win season (only seasons with more than 8 wins: 9-2 in 1967 and 9-0-1 in 1945).

Even if he does nothing after this season, he has produced the best season in program history by a mile, and completely shattered previous expectations of what was possible at Indiana.

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That is exactly why extending him so many years at that salary is stupid. They will be mediocre again soon enough. Cignetti is not an up and comer. He's 63. He is what he is. Reward him for this year? Absolutely! 8 year extension? Stupid. Exactly the kind of dumb **** mediocre programs do. I know. I'm a Cal fan.

---

Cignetti is an "up and comer" even though he is "old":

His record at
IUP 53-17
Elon 14-9
James Madison 52-9
Indiana 10-0

Total 129-35

His FBS record is 29-4 (James Madison would have won the Sun Belt their first two years but were still "transitioning" from FCS).

His offense and defense rankings:
2022 James Madison #13 O #23 D
2023 James Madison #23 O #20 D
2024 Indiana #2 O #7 D

Imagine what he could do if he hadn't inherited a 3-9 Indiana team with the #105 O and #101 D? With a terrible OL, #112 in YPC last year? Imagine if he had two top 20 portal classes?

He honestly looks like the real deal, enough so that if I am any one of dozens of underperforming "power" programs I'd go after him, which is why Indiana wrapped him up.

And this is my point when people say "Wilcox is a Top 40 College Football Head Coach." There are lots of successful coaches at lower levels who never even get a shot at FBS.

In order to find good to great coaches you have to move on from mediocre and worse quickly, and when it looks like you found a good one (Snyder, Tedford) wrap them up.

calumnus said:

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dimitrig said:

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Strykur said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Econ141 said:

---

Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

---

That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

---

Indiana's B1G payout is $70 million per year. It is not such a bad gamble to lock him in after the season he has had. It would be more like us locking in Tedford through season 9 after his first year than our locking in Wilcox through season 11 after his 5th year.

---

Long-term guaranteed contracts without a buyout are almost always a bad idea.

That puts him in the top 10 highest paid coaches and doubles his current salary. Why? Indiana isn't going to become a college football power with or without him. Give him a 5 year contract max.

---

Read this little nugget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Hoosiers_football

Quote:

---

Indiana University has the most losses of any Division I (FBS or FCS) football program (713), and also the fourth worst winning percentage of any FBS team with over 1,000 games played (.421).

---

He took over that, and so far has delivered 11 wins (they will blast Purdue in their final home game), their first double-digit win season (only seasons with more than 8 wins: 9-2 in 1967 and 9-0-1 in 1945).

Even if he does nothing after this season, he has produced the best season in program history by a mile, and completely shattered previous expectations of what was possible at Indiana.

---

That is exactly why extending him so many years at that salary is stupid. They will be mediocre again soon enough. Cignetti is not an up and comer. He's 63. He is what he is. Reward him for this year? Absolutely! 8 year extension? Stupid. Exactly the kind of dumb **** mediocre programs do. I know. I'm a Cal fan.

---

Cignetti is an "up and comer" even though he is "old":

His record at
IUP 53-17
Elon 14-9
James Madison 52-9
Indiana 10-0

Total 129-35

His FBS record is 29-4 (James Madison would have won the Sun Belt their first two years but were still "transitioning" from FCS).

His offense and defense rankings:
2022 James Madison #13 O #23 D
2023 James Madison #23 O #20 D
2024 Indiana #2 O #7 D

Imagine what he could do if he hadn't inherited a 3-9 Indiana team with the #105 O and #101 D? With a terrible OL, #112 in YPC last year? Imagine if he had two top 20 portal classes?

He honestly looks like the real deal, enough so that if I am any one of dozens of underperforming "power" programs I'd go after him, which is why Indiana wrapped him up.

And this is my point when people say "Wilcox is a Top 40 College Football Head Coach." There are lots of successful coaches at lower levels who never even get a shot at FBS.

In order to find good to great coaches you have to move on from mediocre and worse quickly, and when it looks like you found a good one (Snyder, Tedford) wrap them up.

---

Not when they are 63.

dimitrig said:

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calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Strykur said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Econ141 said:

---

Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

---

That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

---

Indiana's B1G payout is $70 million per year. It is not such a bad gamble to lock him in after the season he has had. It would be more like us locking in Tedford through season 9 after his first year than our locking in Wilcox through season 11 after his 5th year.

---

Long-term guaranteed contracts without a buyout are almost always a bad idea.

That puts him in the top 10 highest paid coaches and doubles his current salary. Why? Indiana isn't going to become a college football power with or without him. Give him a 5 year contract max.

---

Read this little nugget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Hoosiers_football

Quote:

---

Indiana University has the most losses of any Division I (FBS or FCS) football program (713), and also the fourth worst winning percentage of any FBS team with over 1,000 games played (.421).

---

He took over that, and so far has delivered 11 wins (they will blast Purdue in their final home game), their first double-digit win season (only seasons with more than 8 wins: 9-2 in 1967 and 9-0-1 in 1945).

Even if he does nothing after this season, he has produced the best season in program history by a mile, and completely shattered previous expectations of what was possible at Indiana.

---

That is exactly why extending him so many years at that salary is stupid. They will be mediocre again soon enough. Cignetti is not an up and comer. He's 63. He is what he is. Reward him for this year? Absolutely! 8 year extension? Stupid. Exactly the kind of dumb **** mediocre programs do. I know. I'm a Cal fan.

---

Cignetti is an "up and comer" even though he is "old":

His record at
IUP 53-17
Elon 14-9
James Madison 52-9
Indiana 10-0

Total 129-35

His FBS record is 29-4 (James Madison would have won the Sun Belt their first two years but were still "transitioning" from FCS).

His offense and defense rankings:
2022 James Madison #13 O #23 D
2023 James Madison #23 O #20 D
2024 Indiana #2 O #7 D

Imagine what he could do if he hadn't inherited a 3-9 Indiana team with the #105 O and #101 D? With a terrible OL, #112 in YPC last year? Imagine if he had two top 20 portal classes?

He honestly looks like the real deal, enough so that if I am any one of dozens of underperforming "power" programs I'd go after him, which is why Indiana wrapped him up.

And this is my point when people say "Wilcox is a Top 40 College Football Head Coach." There are lots of successful coaches at lower levels who never even get a shot at FBS.

In order to find good to great coaches you have to move on from mediocre and worse quickly, and when it looks like you found a good one (Snyder, Tedford) wrap them up.

---

Not when they are 63.

---

So now you are worried about his age?

That just means there is now a very good chance he will retire at Indiana as the winningest coach in their history. Likely with a succession plan in place. He is far and away Indiana's best shot at changing their paradigm. Moreover, if 5 years from now he is not still winning he can just "retire." It is not like being stuck with 11 years of a young coach who has proven he is a bad coach by losing twice as many conference games as he wins but is not going to "quit on his team" (or his paycheck).

Econ141 said:

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Strykur said:

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We're 60 games away from being left out of the super league and if that happens there will be no money, and we are quibbling over $15 million?

---

100%

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Damn, whatta' we waitin for?

Let's all write checks.

Here's a very good podcast about the whole evolution of modern college football. It starts with Nick Saban's reasons for retiring.

"Who Killed College Football?"

I'm totally with you for all except #4. No chance by that point anyone but a complete dart throw takes *only* $2 million a year.

calumnus said:

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dimitrig said:

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calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Strykur said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Econ141 said:

---

Applicable message to Lyons:

cc @UCLAFootball

Indiana has discovered what happens when you lead the athletic department w/football.

Remember when you used to understand that, UCLA?

It doesn't matter how great your BB is, college sports run through football, period. And it's not even close. https://t.co/dh0xw7IKJn

— Mark Schipper - 5th Down CFB (@5thDownCFB) November 16, 2024

---

That long-term contract is just as stupid as Wilcox's

$9M per year for 8 years. Why?! Seems like something Cal would do.

---

Indiana's B1G payout is $70 million per year. It is not such a bad gamble to lock him in after the season he has had. It would be more like us locking in Tedford through season 9 after his first year than our locking in Wilcox through season 11 after his 5th year.

---

Long-term guaranteed contracts without a buyout are almost always a bad idea.

That puts him in the top 10 highest paid coaches and doubles his current salary. Why? Indiana isn't going to become a college football power with or without him. Give him a 5 year contract max.

---

Read this little nugget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Hoosiers_football

Quote:

---

Indiana University has the most losses of any Division I (FBS or FCS) football program (713), and also the fourth worst winning percentage of any FBS team with over 1,000 games played (.421).

---

He took over that, and so far has delivered 11 wins (they will blast Purdue in their final home game), their first double-digit win season (only seasons with more than 8 wins: 9-2 in 1967 and 9-0-1 in 1945).

Even if he does nothing after this season, he has produced the best season in program history by a mile, and completely shattered previous expectations of what was possible at Indiana.

---

That is exactly why extending him so many years at that salary is stupid. They will be mediocre again soon enough. Cignetti is not an up and comer. He's 63. He is what he is. Reward him for this year? Absolutely! 8 year extension? Stupid. Exactly the kind of dumb **** mediocre programs do. I know. I'm a Cal fan.

---

Cignetti is an "up and comer" even though he is "old":

His record at
IUP 53-17
Elon 14-9
James Madison 52-9
Indiana 10-0

Total 129-35

His FBS record is 29-4 (James Madison would have won the Sun Belt their first two years but were still "transitioning" from FCS).

His offense and defense rankings:
2022 James Madison #13 O #23 D
2023 James Madison #23 O #20 D
2024 Indiana #2 O #7 D

Imagine what he could do if he hadn't inherited a 3-9 Indiana team with the #105 O and #101 D? With a terrible OL, #112 in YPC last year? Imagine if he had two top 20 portal classes?

He honestly looks like the real deal, enough so that if I am any one of dozens of underperforming "power" programs I'd go after him, which is why Indiana wrapped him up.

And this is my point when people say "Wilcox is a Top 40 College Football Head Coach." There are lots of successful coaches at lower levels who never even get a shot at FBS.

In order to find good to great coaches you have to move on from mediocre and worse quickly, and when it looks like you found a good one (Snyder, Tedford) wrap them up.

---

Not when they are 63.

---

So now you are worried about his age?

That just means there is now a very good chance he will retire at Indiana as the winningest coach in their history. Likely with a succession plan in place. He is far and away Indiana's best shot at changing their paradigm. Moreover, if 5 years from now he is not still winning he can just "retire." It is not like being stuck with 11 years of a young coach who has proven he is a bad coach by losing twice as many conference games as he wins but is not going to "quit on his team" (or his paycheck).

---

"It's a new day and age in football where, with the portal, you can change the team real quick," Cignetti said at Big Ten media days. "I was given the resources to do that, and I knew when we came in, (and) I started interview the old players, that we'd need a lot of new faces. Fortunately, they did me a favor by leaving."

Notice Cignetti negotiated his contract extension before the tOSU game?

I have a sinking feeling that he might end up improving Indiana, but leaving them middling with a big buyout on his contract. Indiana AD would have been smarter to wait-and-see, at least after the tOSU game.

Watch him hit the recruiting glass ceiling when his grades and graduation rates plummet. Indiana has academic standards similar to Cal. I am pretty sure his "aces" brought over from JMU may not all meet those standards for graduating from IU.

I am waiting before I drink the Cignetti Kool-Aid.

DoubtfulBear said:

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Bowlesman80 said:

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Notice Cignetti negotiated his contract extension before the tOSU game?

I have a sinking feeling that he might end up improving Indiana, but leaving them middling with a big buyout on his contract. Indiana AD would have been smarter to wait-and-see, at least after the tOSU game.

Watch him hit the recruiting glass ceiling when his grades and graduation rates plummet. Indiana has academic standards similar to Cal. I am pretty sure his "aces" brought over from JMU may not all meet those standards for graduating from IU.

I am waiting before I drink the Cignetti Kool-Aid.

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investing take when you had no problem chugging the Wilcox Kool-Aid over the years

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This is fandom, mate. It's all talk, init? Your talk, his JW Kool Aid. The whole lot. So, we try to make it entertaining. Shouldn't interfere with anyone's wagerin', should it?

Unless, of course, you're able and ready to write the big check, yeah? So, kick back and have a good, strong cuppa. That's all you can do to influence the sitiation.

82gradDLSdad said:

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Bowlesman80 said:

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Notice Cignetti negotiated his contract extension before the tOSU game?

I have a sinking feeling that he might end up improving Indiana, but leaving them middling with a big buyout on his contract. Indiana AD would have been smarter to wait-and-see, at least after the tOSU game.

Watch him hit the recruiting glass ceiling when his grades and graduation rates plummet. Indiana has academic standards similar to Cal. I am pretty sure his "aces" brought over from JMU may not all meet those standards for graduating from IU.

I am waiting before I drink the Cignetti Kool-Aid.

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You have to like his recruiting/portal quotes above though. Doesn't beat around the bush. Wilcox reminds me of every ****ty CEO with his coach speak.

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I don't really like that attitude at all.

New coach comes in and blasts the kids that have been busting their butts and then says he's glad they left while bringing in dozens of kids from his old program?