Chancellor Lyons to Berkeleyize the ASUC and Cal Student Store

3,676 Views | 49 Replies | Last: 12 days ago by calumnus
SturdyGolden
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In a move to further marginalize the "Cal brand" on campus, Chancellor Rich Lyons is trying to force the ASUC and Cal Student Store to include "Berkeley" in it's name while dropping Cal! Lyons is a one man brand destroyer.
WhatABonanza
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Umm. No. Lyons is not a brand destroyer. He knows what he is doing.

His goal is not simply about the football program. His goal is to increase the value of every Cal degree.

I say Cal on this site and when I'm talking to friends in The Bay. But anywhere else in the state, anywhere else in the country, or when I've traveled overseas, I use the word BERKELEY. That word means something around the world. People I've worked with in Europe or Asia know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. And they know Berkeley. They don't know UC, or Cal, or California. (When I say I went to Berkeley, they instantly think I'm smarter than I really am. It helps.)

We've had brand confusion for decades and it's a problem. But if we are going to strive for unity, it should not simply be to unify around the script logo on our uniforms and helmets. It should be around the word that is recognized, globally, for brilliance and independent thinking. Berkeley.

Lyons knows what he is doing.
kal kommie
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It is a fake problem. When our program is good, it is irrelevant that we have this brand confusion. We get national attention, our attendance skyrockets, our recruiting excels. When we are not good the brand confusion is also irrelevant because no one cares about us at all anyway.

But whatever. Once they literally end Cal football it will be easier for me to walk away from this broken and defaced shell of an institution.
BearoutEast67
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I think the Cal versus Berkeley issue is as important as deciding if Stanford should be the "trees" or the Cardinal or Auburn be the Tigers or War Eagles or Alabama be the Crimson Tide or Elephants, or Ohio St saying "The". In the end, it's unimportant.

When I talk about Cal here on the East Coast with guys following football, people seem to immediately connect our team, school, and academic success.

It's only when I talk to folks who are more "nerdy" and have no interest in sports where there might be confusion and better recognition of Berkeley.
Donate to Cal's NIL at https://calegends.com/donation/
wifeisafurd
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WhatABonanza said:

Umm. No. Lyons is not a brand destroyer. He knows what he is doing.

His goal is not simply about the football program. His goal is to increase the value of every Cal degree.

I say Cal on this site and when I'm talking to friends in The Bay. But anywhere else in the state, anywhere else in the country, or when I've traveled overseas, I use the word BERKELEY. That word means something around the world. People I've worked with in Europe or Asia know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. And they know Berkeley. They don't know UC, or Cal, or California. (When I say I went to Berkeley, they instantly think I'm smarter than I really am. It helps.)

We've had brand confusion for decades and it's a problem. But if we are going to strive for unity, it should not simply be to unify around the script logo on our uniforms and helmets. It should be around the word that is recognized, globally, for brilliance and independent thinking. Berkeley.

Lyons knows what he is doing.
I never see anyone wearing something that says just Berkeley on it. I have seen a few people wearing a shirt that may say UC Berkeley. Compare that to the tons of Cal or California stuff I see, and not just at games. Airports, visiting foreign cities, etc.. Lyons does have a problem because no one (other than maybe on the campus) wears Berkeley clothing. Hell, even Lyons wears Cal clothes instead:

A lifelong Golden Bear fan and the first alum to become ...

https://images.app.goo.gl/v51c2NheSd5qS1SB7

I'm not sure why there is a problem with two school brands. Some schools, like the University of Virginia, the University of Florida, and the University of North Carolina, have separate logos for academics and athletics. This can help the school generate more revenue from branded materials, and it can also help the school separate negative perceptions of the athletic program from the academic program or so AI tells me so. SC and dickwad works down here in LA.

Do we even really know Lyons is doing this? Sounds at odds with what has been coming out of the Chancellor's office most recently.

socaliganbear
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Tons of Berkeley gear in NYC. Cal I would say is mostly baseball caps.
wifeisafurd
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socaliganbear said:

Tons of Berkeley gear in NYC. Cal I would say is mostly baseball caps.
You NYC guys must be ahead of the curve.

Really never see it in Socal. Nor anywhere else. I have seen plenty of Cal gear traveling in Europe. Typically a Cal cap or a California jacket. Same in Australia.

Just go on line the student store, and it is primarily Cal or California gear. In fact I don't even see Berkeley stuff in the Oakland Airport or obviously at football games. I admittedly don't go on the greater campus much. The gear at the temporary student stores at the Stadium appeared to be all Cal logo clothes.

If Lyons is trying to move to a total Berkeley brand, one place to start is the student store.
socaliganbear
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It's part of the preppy culture here. Lots of Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Berkeley, Princeton shirts etc running through CP, Equinox, NYAC, etc.

Like I said, I do see Cal hats tho. But you're right, NYC is different. And I personally don't see Lyons moving to one brand. If anything he seems to be leaving into both brands.
wifeisafurd
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socaliganbear said:

It's part of the preppy culture here. Lots of Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Berkeley, Princeton shirts etc running through CP, Equinox, NYAC, etc.

Like I said, I do see Cal hats tho. But you're right, NYC is different. And I personally don't see Lyons moving to one brand. If anything he seems to be leaving into both brands.
The OC where we live is total sports crazy - so everything is team clothes. And we have a lot of pro head coaches in our area so it is sports on steroids. We also live part time in Rolling Hills - we avoid school stuff there, since it is USC central.
calumnus
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wifeisafurd said:

socaliganbear said:

Tons of Berkeley gear in NYC. Cal I would say is mostly baseball caps.
You NYC guys must be ahead of the curve.

Really never see it in Socal. Nor anywhere else. I have seen plenty of Cal gear traveling in Europe. Typical a Cal cap or a California jacket. Same in Australia.

Just go on line the student store, and it is primarily Cal or California gear. I fact I don't even see Berkeley stuff in the Oakland Airport or obviously at football games. I admittedly don't go on the greater campus much. The gear at the temporary student stores at the Stadium appeared to be all Cal logo clothes.

If Lyons is trying to move to a total Berkeley brand, one place to start is the student store.


If you go to any of the other (privately owned) apparel stores in the campus area there is a ton of "Berkeley" stuff, some of it very high quality likely because there is no copyright and people buy it. And yes, a lot of students do wear it.

As I have said before, I have come around to embracing the dual identities. Every superhero has a second, nerdy identity. California (or Cal for short) can kick ass on the football field and basketball court without people knowing we are also world academic power Berkeley. The measures of success in each arena are completely separate.
LunchTime
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WhatABonanza said:

Umm. No. Lyons is not a brand destroyer. He knows what he is doing.

His goal is not simply about the football program. His goal is to increase the value of every Cal degree.

I say Cal on this site and when I'm talking to friends in The Bay. But anywhere else in the state, anywhere else in the country, or when I've traveled overseas, I use the word BERKELEY. That word means something around the world. People I've worked with in Europe or Asia know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. And they know Berkeley. They don't know UC, or Cal, or California. (When I say I went to Berkeley, they instantly think I'm smarter than I really am. It helps.)

We've had brand confusion for decades and it's a problem. But if we are going to strive for unity, it should not simply be to unify around the script logo on our uniforms and helmets. It should be around the word that is recognized, globally, for brilliance and independent thinking. Berkeley.

Lyons knows what he is doing.


I have never in my life seen "Berkeley" branding anywhere.

I have seen a huge amount of branding around UC and Cal while traveling the world. Mostly script Cal and extremely limited "UC Berkeley." No one has managed to be confused in my experience.

Honestly, the only people who have ever appeared confused are intentionally obtuse, looking to take offense at there being "more than one Cal"

I have said "Go Bears" to people wearing Cal branding in probably 30 countries, and at least as many states. I have seen maybe a half dozen people wearing anything that says "UC Berkeley" and zero wearing anything that says "Berkeley."

Berkeley, in common conversation, has a lot of weight. It has almost none in established branding. Probably due to the impossibility of branding anything as "Berkeley."
01Bear
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01Bear
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Our alma mater is the University of California. Period. The satellite schools have to have the toponymic identifier after "UC" as they are not the flagship school for the State of California. Cal is the flagship school for and represents the entire state, not just the Bay Area, or Berkeley.

The UC System had been trying to force Cal to give up its identity in order to make Cal conform to its asinine "multiversity system" while trading on the "University of California" reputation established by Cal. Too many Cal chancellors have complied with their nonsensical demand. Cal is not just one school among many in the UC system. Cal is the flagship university for the state.

If Lyons is trying to move Cal away from the "California" and "Cal" monikers/brands, then he doesn't understand what it is that makes our alma mater special. He may be an alumnus, but he might as well be another Berdahl, Birgeneau, or Dirks.
calumnus
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LunchTime said:

WhatABonanza said:

Umm. No. Lyons is not a brand destroyer. He knows what he is doing.

His goal is not simply about the football program. His goal is to increase the value of every Cal degree.

I say Cal on this site and when I'm talking to friends in The Bay. But anywhere else in the state, anywhere else in the country, or when I've traveled overseas, I use the word BERKELEY. That word means something around the world. People I've worked with in Europe or Asia know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. And they know Berkeley. They don't know UC, or Cal, or California. (When I say I went to Berkeley, they instantly think I'm smarter than I really am. It helps.)

We've had brand confusion for decades and it's a problem. But if we are going to strive for unity, it should not simply be to unify around the script logo on our uniforms and helmets. It should be around the word that is recognized, globally, for brilliance and independent thinking. Berkeley.

Lyons knows what he is doing.


I have never in my life seen "Berkeley" branding anywhere.

I have seen a huge amount of branding around UC and Cal while traveling the world. Mostly script Cal and extremely limited "UC Berkeley." No one has managed to be confused in my experience.

Honestly, the only people who have ever appeared confused are intentionally obtuse, looking to take offense at there being "more than one Cal"

I have said "Go Bears" to people wearing Cal branding in probably 30 countries, and at least as many states. I have seen maybe a half dozen people wearing anything that says "UC Berkeley" and zero wearing anything that says "Berkeley."

Berkeley, in common conversation, has a lot of weight. It has almost none in established branding. Probably due to the impossibility of branding anything as "Berkeley."


https://shopcollegewear.com/products/u-c-berkeley-men-cal-embroidered-left-chest-champion-zip-up-hoodie-sweatshirt-navy-copy
01Bear
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calumnus said:

LunchTime said:

WhatABonanza said:

Umm. No. Lyons is not a brand destroyer. He knows what he is doing.

His goal is not simply about the football program. His goal is to increase the value of every Cal degree.

I say Cal on this site and when I'm talking to friends in The Bay. But anywhere else in the state, anywhere else in the country, or when I've traveled overseas, I use the word BERKELEY. That word means something around the world. People I've worked with in Europe or Asia know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. And they know Berkeley. They don't know UC, or Cal, or California. (When I say I went to Berkeley, they instantly think I'm smarter than I really am. It helps.)

We've had brand confusion for decades and it's a problem. But if we are going to strive for unity, it should not simply be to unify around the script logo on our uniforms and helmets. It should be around the word that is recognized, globally, for brilliance and independent thinking. Berkeley.

Lyons knows what he is doing.


I have never in my life seen "Berkeley" branding anywhere.

I have seen a huge amount of branding around UC and Cal while traveling the world. Mostly script Cal and extremely limited "UC Berkeley." No one has managed to be confused in my experience.

Honestly, the only people who have ever appeared confused are intentionally obtuse, looking to take offense at there being "more than one Cal"

I have said "Go Bears" to people wearing Cal branding in probably 30 countries, and at least as many states. I have seen maybe a half dozen people wearing anything that says "UC Berkeley" and zero wearing anything that says "Berkeley."

Berkeley, in common conversation, has a lot of weight. It has almost none in established branding. Probably due to the impossibility of branding anything as "Berkeley."


https://shopcollegewear.com/products/u-c-berkeley-men-cal-embroidered-left-chest-champion-zip-up-hoodie-sweatshirt-navy-copy

I wouldn't put too much stock in the sweatshirt being legitimate. The product description field reads as follows:
"Represent University of California Berkeley in this script Cal hoodie sweatshirt.

Officially licensed U.C. Berkeley Cal hoodie sweatshirt.
Cotton polyester blend for comfort and ease of care.
Screen printed graphic.
A portion of the proceeds supports U.C. Berkeley through royalties."

I'm pretty sure that's not a script Cal on the sweatshirt in the photo.
LunchTime
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01Bear said:

calumnus said:

LunchTime said:

WhatABonanza said:

Umm. No. Lyons is not a brand destroyer. He knows what he is doing.

His goal is not simply about the football program. His goal is to increase the value of every Cal degree.

I say Cal on this site and when I'm talking to friends in The Bay. But anywhere else in the state, anywhere else in the country, or when I've traveled overseas, I use the word BERKELEY. That word means something around the world. People I've worked with in Europe or Asia know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. And they know Berkeley. They don't know UC, or Cal, or California. (When I say I went to Berkeley, they instantly think I'm smarter than I really am. It helps.)

We've had brand confusion for decades and it's a problem. But if we are going to strive for unity, it should not simply be to unify around the script logo on our uniforms and helmets. It should be around the word that is recognized, globally, for brilliance and independent thinking. Berkeley.

Lyons knows what he is doing.


I have never in my life seen "Berkeley" branding anywhere.

I have seen a huge amount of branding around UC and Cal while traveling the world. Mostly script Cal and extremely limited "UC Berkeley." No one has managed to be confused in my experience.

Honestly, the only people who have ever appeared confused are intentionally obtuse, looking to take offense at there being "more than one Cal"

I have said "Go Bears" to people wearing Cal branding in probably 30 countries, and at least as many states. I have seen maybe a half dozen people wearing anything that says "UC Berkeley" and zero wearing anything that says "Berkeley."

Berkeley, in common conversation, has a lot of weight. It has almost none in established branding. Probably due to the impossibility of branding anything as "Berkeley."


https://shopcollegewear.com/products/u-c-berkeley-men-cal-embroidered-left-chest-champion-zip-up-hoodie-sweatshirt-navy-copy

I wouldn't put too much stock in the sweatshirt being legitimate. The product description field reads as follows:
"Represent University of California Berkeley in this script Cal hoodie sweatshirt.

Officially licensed U.C. Berkeley Cal hoodie sweatshirt.
Cotton polyester blend for comfort and ease of care.
Screen printed graphic.
A portion of the proceeds supports U.C. Berkeley through royalties."

I'm pretty sure that's not a script Cal on the sweatshirt in the photo.


There is at least one other, though.

Still have never seen one in person, though.
Gobears49
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This topic surfaced ijn detail about six months. There were some good arguments made then but I forget what they were. I recall there was a discussion about what Wisconsin universities mark their gear.

What is wrong with haviing all of our gear have the words "Cal Berkeley" on all them? Also on the football uniforms.
concernedparent
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LunchTime said:

01Bear said:

calumnus said:

LunchTime said:

WhatABonanza said:

Umm. No. Lyons is not a brand destroyer. He knows what he is doing.

His goal is not simply about the football program. His goal is to increase the value of every Cal degree.

I say Cal on this site and when I'm talking to friends in The Bay. But anywhere else in the state, anywhere else in the country, or when I've traveled overseas, I use the word BERKELEY. That word means something around the world. People I've worked with in Europe or Asia know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. And they know Berkeley. They don't know UC, or Cal, or California. (When I say I went to Berkeley, they instantly think I'm smarter than I really am. It helps.)

We've had brand confusion for decades and it's a problem. But if we are going to strive for unity, it should not simply be to unify around the script logo on our uniforms and helmets. It should be around the word that is recognized, globally, for brilliance and independent thinking. Berkeley.

Lyons knows what he is doing.


I have never in my life seen "Berkeley" branding anywhere.

I have seen a huge amount of branding around UC and Cal while traveling the world. Mostly script Cal and extremely limited "UC Berkeley." No one has managed to be confused in my experience.

Honestly, the only people who have ever appeared confused are intentionally obtuse, looking to take offense at there being "more than one Cal"

I have said "Go Bears" to people wearing Cal branding in probably 30 countries, and at least as many states. I have seen maybe a half dozen people wearing anything that says "UC Berkeley" and zero wearing anything that says "Berkeley."

Berkeley, in common conversation, has a lot of weight. It has almost none in established branding. Probably due to the impossibility of branding anything as "Berkeley."


https://shopcollegewear.com/products/u-c-berkeley-men-cal-embroidered-left-chest-champion-zip-up-hoodie-sweatshirt-navy-copy

I wouldn't put too much stock in the sweatshirt being legitimate. The product description field reads as follows:
"Represent University of California Berkeley in this script Cal hoodie sweatshirt.

Officially licensed U.C. Berkeley Cal hoodie sweatshirt.
Cotton polyester blend for comfort and ease of care.
Screen printed graphic.
A portion of the proceeds supports U.C. Berkeley through royalties."

I'm pretty sure that's not a script Cal on the sweatshirt in the photo.


There is at least one other, though.

Still have never seen one in person, though.
Berkeley (not UC Berkeley, just Berkeley) with the university seal is one of the most common non-hat apparel designs I've seen worn in public.

https://www.bkstr.com/studentstoreberkeleystore/product/university-of-california-berkeley-crewneck-sweatshirt-128628-1
coachdeke
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The only place I see "Berkeley" gear is on campus. I see the Cal script everywhere and it is, by far, the biggest seller. For those of you not involved in branding, "Berkeley" is not a brand. I know our new chancellor has been involved in the "rebranding" for 13 years and made mistakes with every decision made; for example: "Cal Berkeley; banning ""Cal" from graduation; banning "Cal" from new student organizations; and in 2013 banning "Cal" as a name for the campus. He's now had IT people screw with search algorithms so our football team is "Berkeley." SNAFU!
WhatABonanza
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Some of the professional schools have done rebranding over the last decade or so. They did serious research to see what might add the most value.

About 12 years ago, the business school changed its logo. The words "Haas School of Business" ran along the top. The words "University of California" ran across the bottom. Those 7 words combined took up about 45% of the real estate on the logo. One word, in the middle, took up 55% of the space: Berkeley. They understood that this one word added genuine value to the degrees conferred.

The B-school has since shortened the logo. It now consists of two words: Berkeley Haas.

When the law school ditched the Boalt name, it went with a name they knew would have value anywhere in the world: Berkeley Law.

I love wearing my Cal gear. I love Cal sports. Cal Bears rolls off the tongue -- because it's how I talked when I was an undergrad in the 1900s. But Lyons is not thinking only about Cal sports or obsessive Cal sports fans. He's thinking about the value of every degree conferred at Berkeley.

I taught courses in the B-school for 7 years and saw Rich Lyons up close. (I was not tenure track and did not know him well, but did have many interactions with him.). I saw his impact on the B-School. He is easily one of the best leaders I've ever been around. I would not be so quick to judge him on this.
Shocky1
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lunch box, u should probably leave ur moms basement more often, maybe actually go to an actual cal football game??

https://instagr.am/p/BZRTvlagD9_
branding matters in 2024 (cal's monster class)#
okaydo
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I'm proud to be a University of California alum.

I'm also proud that the manager of the likely 2024 World Series champions is a University of California alum.
Gobears49
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"Cal Berleley" can only logically mean, to everyone, and all by itself, the University of California at Berkeley.
Gobears49
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"Cal Berkeley"
01Bear
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WhatABonanza said:

Some of the professional schools have done rebranding over the last decade or so. They did serious research to see what might add the most value.

About 12 years ago, the business school changed its logo. The words "Haas School of Business" ran along the top. The words "University of California" ran across the bottom. Those 7 words combined took up about 45% of the real estate on the logo. One word, in the middle, took up 55% of the space: Berkeley. They understood that this one word added genuine value to the degrees conferred.

The B-school has since shortened the logo. It now consists of two words: Berkeley Haas.

When the law school ditched the Boalt name, it went with a name they knew would have value anywhere in the world: Berkeley Law.

I love wearing my Cal gear. I love Cal sports. Cal Bears rolls off the tongue -- because it's how I talked when I was an undergrad in the 1900s. But Lyons is not thinking only about Cal sports or obsessive Cal sports fans. He's thinking about the value of every degree conferred at Berkeley.

I taught courses in the B-school for 7 years and saw Rich Lyons up close. (I was not tenure track and did not know him well, but did have many interactions with him.). I saw his impact on the B-School. He is easily one of the best leaders I've ever been around. I would not be so quick to judge him on this.


Serious questions,
(1) Who are the "they" who did the research?
(2) Did they consider that no one outside the B-school world (which includes the consulting firms that hire B-school graduates) really cares about B-schools but that among those in the B-school world names like "Haas," "Sloan," "Kellogg," "Wharton," Tuck," and "Anderson" all mean something and are substituted for the names of their universities in regular conversation?

Also the move away from "Boalt" wasn't over branding; it was due to the tempest in a teapot that arose over concerns by the small-minded who insist that the law school not be named after a dead racist.* Or at least that's how it was sold to the public and to alumni. Of course, I can see the UC system and the weak-willed Cal chancellors using the racism angle as cover to put the "Berkeley" stamp on Cal's law school. If anything, Cal has always been recognized as "California Law" in academia; the law school's law review has been (and is still?) known as "California Law Review." If anything, rebranding to "Berkeley Law" only causes brand confusion.

The move to rename everything that had been "California" or "Cal" serves only to push the interests of the UC system while diminishing Cal. There's a reason the UC system wants to claim the "University of California" title; it's because Cal built it up into one of the premier brands in the state, if not the world. That the chancellor fails to recognize this or is willing to surrender our alma mater's brand is alarming. Our school isn't one among the many schools in the multiversity system. Our alma mater is the flagship university for the state and a world-renowned leader in just about every major field of study in academia. It stands alone as the preeminent public university in the world.**

Cal is more than Berkeley; it stands for California.

*I say this as a member of the very ethnic group against which John Henry Boalt lashed out and denigrated.

**As much as I admire and respect the satellite schools, they are not Cal. They did not create the academic reputation on which the UC system now attempts to trade. They did not make the University of California the premier public university in the world.
pingpong2
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I will just add that in any academic or professional setting (especially internationally), Berkeley is a lot more well known than Cal. Even in the Bay Area, I've had people (admittedly internationals) get confused about which Cal. Cal Tech? Cal State? But Berkeley has no ambiguity.

All the arguments I hear for the Cal branding are steeped in emotions and ideology. I'm sorry but from a practical perspective, Berkeley is just better branding. The primary purpose of a university is academics. Athletics is a side dish.
philly1121
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SturdyGolden said:

In a move to further marginalize the "Cal brand" on campus, Chancellor Rich Lyons is trying to force the ASUC and Cal Student Store to include "Berkeley" in it's name while dropping Cal! Lyons is a one man brand destroyer.
And this is the Chancellor that is going to save football? oof
kal kommie
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pingpong2 said:

I will just add that in any academic or professional setting (especially internationally), Berkeley is a lot more well known than Cal. Even in the Bay Area, I've had people (admittedly internationals) get confused about which Cal. Cal Tech? Cal State? But Berkeley has no ambiguity.

All the arguments I hear for the Cal branding are steeped in emotions and ideology. I'm sorry but from a practical perspective, Berkeley is just better branding. The primary purpose of a university is academics. Athletics is a side dish.
"Emotion and ideology" -- sentimentality -- is the only reason I follow the football program. If they're going to destroy every element which holds sentimental value for me, all the way down to the very name of the program, then I'm not going to follow anymore. What's the practical perspective on driving away 35+ year fans?

"Berkeley" won't help the football program, and the university does not need its sports teams to carry "Berkeley" for its benefit, as proven by all of the people here who attest to how well known Berkeley already is. This is a bullsh*t solution for a bullsh*t problem which won't do anything except piss off people who have cared about Cal football for decades.
calumnus
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kal kommie said:

pingpong2 said:

I will just add that in any academic or professional setting (especially internationally), Berkeley is a lot more well known than Cal. Even in the Bay Area, I've had people (admittedly internationals) get confused about which Cal. Cal Tech? Cal State? But Berkeley has no ambiguity.

All the arguments I hear for the Cal branding are steeped in emotions and ideology. I'm sorry but from a practical perspective, Berkeley is just better branding. The primary purpose of a university is academics. Athletics is a side dish.
"Emotion and ideology" -- sentimentality -- is the only reason I follow the football program. If they're going to destroy every element which holds sentimental value for me, all the way down to the very name of the program, then I'm not going to follow anymore. What's the practical perspective on driving away 35+ year fans?

"Berkeley" won't help the football program, and the university does not need its sports teams to carry "Berkeley" for its benefit, as proven by all of the people here who attest to how well known Berkeley already is. This is a bullsh*t solution for a bullsh*t problem which won't do anything except piss off people who have cared about Cal football for decades.


Exactly. "Berkeley" for academics, "California" for the sports teams. Our academic reputation is not dependent on how many points we score and we won't score more points due to our academic reputation, so choose the best brand for each.

It actually plays to our advantage. Like superheroes with dual identities.

If people want sweatshirts that mix the brands "California Berkeley" or "Cal Berkeley" let them have at it,
wifeisafurd
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Shocky1 said:

lunch box, u should probably leave ur moms basement more often, maybe actually go to an actual cal football game??

https://instagr.am/p/BZRTvlagD9_
branding matters in 2024 (cal's monster class)#
I'm not sure where you are going on this Shocky, because is really difficult to find anyone wearing Berkeley among the sea of Cal at a football game.

This seems like an utter BS issue to me. The trendy cool guys seem to be devoting more attention than ever to their brands, and not the substance. Just look at those Ivy elites. Controversies surrounding anti-Semitism, the perceived coddling of pro-Palestinian groups, poor Congressional performances, plagiarism, grade inflation, student protests, trying to game the admission and donor reporting to improve college ratings, scandals like Varsity Blues, the good old New York Times reported there was a summit in January of Ivy Presidents at Yale University, to discuss "branding woes". For example, Harvard saw a drop of 17 percent in early-admission applications, and a huge drop in endowment donations (as well as donors not fulfilling their existing donations) until that university gets its house in order. So much so that Harvard's latest President is threatening cuts. Other Ivies are being similarly impacted. And what came out of this meeting? According to the Times, is was we need to protect our brands.

The unstated is for school Presidents who seemed to be lost in academic business school nomenclature is that colleges and universities can thrive only by protecting and promoting their brands, and those that allow their brands to founder are condemning themselves to decline and perhaps even extinction. What a load of academic crap. Maybe higher education needs to divert attention from their brands to their actual missions or at least what makes students and donors (or in the case of public schools politicians) happy. Branding seems to distract from an organization's core product or service. As leaders devote more and more attention to image, the focus on substance tends to wane. As noted in other threads, Berkeley's ratings have dropped significantly among high school students (see the Niche million student poll) because of perception over safety, housing, inability to graduate on time due to lake of accessibility of classes or desired majors, and other issues not purely related to academic quality. Maybe Lyons is better off focusing on those issues, rather than idiotic name things that only serve to alienate some portion of his donor base. There are plenty of big name colleges that have more one brand, especially for athletics and they don't seem the worse for it.

I'm sure some academic or business types are going to respond that all colleges and universities are now defining their branding based on a vision of allegedly who they are and what they stand for. Administrators, faculty, and students become brand ambassadors. I'm not sure how caliing your football team Berkeley does any of that. Underlying such efforts is a conception of students as consumers, faculty as vendors, and university administrators as brand managers. How is that working for Harvard? At some point you need to understand you are university, not a mass consumer business.

Look you say that it is matters to call the athletic side Berkeley in 2024 - why is that?


LunchTime
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Shocky1 said:

lunch box, u should probably leave ur moms basement more often, maybe actually go to an actual cal football game??

branding matters in 2024 (cal's monster class)#
Oh no! He called me Lunch Box and said I live in my moms basement!

What is cal football? you mean Berkeley Football?
Anarchistbear
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Berkeley is the word of the day
WhatABonanza
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01Bear said:


There's a reason the UC system wants to claim the "University of California" title; it's because Cal built it up into one of the premier brands in the state, if not the world. That the chancellor fails to recognize this or is willing to surrender our alma mater's brand is alarming. Our school isn't one among the many schools in the multiversity system. Our alma mater is the flagship university for the state and a world-renowned leader in just about every major field of study in academia. It stands alone as the preeminent public university in the world.**

The chancellor no doubt knows that Cal helped build the UC system into an incredible institution, or set of institutions. But it's 2024. A lot has changed in the state since Cal sat nearly alone atop the list of great public universities. The chancellor also no doubt knows that there are many great schools in the UC system, as there should be, and that each of those universities (including Berkeley) have an obligation to take steps not only to support their own campus, but the other UC campuses as well. We can compete for students and funding, but we must also work together to ensure that all of the campuses thrive. We owe that to the citizens of California. UCLA is a great university. UC Santa Barbara is a great university. UC San Diego... same. There are many great campuses in the system. Berkeley is still at the top. And I have no problem sharing the term "UC" with all of those other campuses. Holding on, saying it's important that we alone be seen as the flagship university and insisting that we alone be called "University of California" just doesn't seem important. It in fact seems counterproductive.
UC Berkeley. Cal Berkeley. Both of those seem fine to me.
Golden One
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WhatABonanza said:



The chancellor also no doubt knows that there are many great schools in the UC system, as there should be, and that each of those universities (including Berkeley) have an obligation to take steps not only to support their own campus, but the other UC campuses as well.
Like UCLA did when they stabbed us in the back as they abruptly jumped to the Big Ten? Screw UCLA!
01Bear
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WhatABonanza said:

01Bear said:


There's a reason the UC system wants to claim the "University of California" title; it's because Cal built it up into one of the premier brands in the state, if not the world. That the chancellor fails to recognize this or is willing to surrender our alma mater's brand is alarming. Our school isn't one among the many schools in the multiversity system. Our alma mater is the flagship university for the state and a world-renowned leader in just about every major field of study in academia. It stands alone as the preeminent public university in the world.**

The chancellor no doubt knows that Cal helped build the UC system into an incredible institution, or set of institutions. But it's 2024. A lot has changed in the state since Cal sat nearly alone atop the list of great public universities. The chancellor also no doubt knows that there are many great schools in the UC system, as there should be, and that each of those universities (including Berkeley) have an obligation to take steps not only to support their own campus, but the other UC campuses as well. We can compete for students and funding, but we must also work together to ensure that all of the campuses thrive. We owe that to the citizens of California. UCLA is a great university. UC Santa Barbara is a great university. UC San Diego... same. There are many great campuses in the system. Berkeley is still at the top. And I have no problem sharing the term "UC" with all of those other campuses. Holding on, saying it's important that we alone be seen as the flagship university and insisting that we alone be called "University of California" just doesn't seem important. It in fact seems counterproductive.
UC Berkeley. Cal Berkeley. Both of those seem fine to me.

There can only ever be one flagship, that's the point of being the flagship. Cal is the flagship university for the state of California. Not UCLA, not UCSD, not UC Davis nor any of the other satellite schools. This is no knock against them. They're all good or great schools in their own right. But Cal is the flagship not only because of history but because it is the best public university, period. If you and Lyons don't understand that, then get out of the way and let those who understand this lead the way.
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