Athlon Sports predicts ACC football 2025 order of finish

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6956bear
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socaltownie said:

Bobodeluxe said:

Oh, ye of little faith! Reloading is the name of the game.
I thought there was talk of a top 10 class or is that the portal class? That link is scary
That is the HS class rankings for 2025. This years incoming HS class. Which does not inlcude JKS. He is included in the transfer class which resides in the middle tier of the ACC. But the transfer ratings on 247 are simply committed/enrolled transfers. Does not include the transfers out.

On3 does a net rating of transfer classes and has Cal much lower. Cal of course lost Mendoza, Ott, Endries and Jet to the portal. So the net ratings reflect those losses.

The ACC has a ton of similar talent teams. Other than Clemson and Miami there are really a lot of similar teams. The margins in games vs UNC, Duke, UVa, etc appear slim so mistakes, coaching, injuries and game location likely matter a lot.

Cal does not play Clemson or Miami. Or FSU. SMU and Louisville appear to be the toughest opponents based on talent levels.

We will see if the coaching changes along with an emphasis on OL in the portal can offset the losses in the portal and graduation. But on paper it is easy to see why many that cover the ACC has Cal predicted down the standings.
TandemBear
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Bobodeluxe said:

Oh, ye of little faith! Reloading is the name of the game.
OMG.
calumnus
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

Only have to win at least 3 conference games to finish higher than 15th. I think our Bears will do that; but of course there are many negabears here who will strongly disagree.


We went 2-6 and finished #14 last year, so yeah, finishing better than #15 shouldn't be too hard.

The outside "experts" look at our #14 finish last year and the fact we lost our emerging star QB, our star RB (all our RBs), our star WRs,stsrting TE and most of our great defense and predict we'll do worse, but what some of us know is that we had a great team last year, a team good enough to win 10 and challenge for the ACC championship last year but for repeated coaching blunders. Thus, even if our talent is likely not quite as good, with better coaching (Rivera, Harsin, Rolovich) developing a better scheme and pushing Wilcox to make smart in game decisions plus another easy schedule, we should be able to finish in the top half of the ACC (maybe #7?).
I don't see how this reasoning makes sense.

1. We did not win 10 and challenge for the ACC championship. Had we had a good enough team to do that, we would have. You are what your record says.

2. The "we almost won a lot more games" analysis is fools' gold and lead to the "Let the Big Bear Eat" phenomena in Holmoe's last year after people convinced themselves that if we cleaned up turnovers and such we would have won more in his second to last year. You cannot simply attribute all close games as potential wins. What about potential losses? We beat Stanford and Auburn by one score. We could have easily lost those games. So if we were good enough to win 10, we were also bad enough to potentially go 4-8 and 1-7 in conference. Good teams win close games. We didn't.

3. But then your argument cuts itself off at the knees. How is it relevant that "some of us know that we had a great team last year"? (we didn't, by the way). We don't have that team anymore. As you said. QB gone. RBs gone. WR's gone. Star TE gone. (losing Jet, Mendoza and Endries is huge). We lost our one proven QB, all of our RB's with meaningful production, and 9 of our top 10 receivers. Basically all of our offensive production gone. Most of our defense gone. Had we kept everyone, I could almost get there with you, but we kept almost no one. So even if you think we were a hard luck, shouldabeen 10 win team last year none of that is here. I ask you how are our results last year even relevant at this point? The relevant question is how the current talent will fare, and frankly we have no way of knowing.

4. You are essentially doing the same depth of analysis that earned the "experts" air quotes from you. Instead of saying we were a 6 win team (we were) that lost all of its top players, you are saying we were a 10 win team (we weren't) whose talent is "not quite as good" (can't know that) and coaching is better so somehow that formula comes out to top half.

5. On coaching - Rivera is not coaching. Regarding Harsin and Rolovich - I've been down the big name coaches is going to save the lousy head coach strategy before (Al Borges anyone?). Balance of the probabilities I'd say points to coaching being somewhat improved. I don't think that is a guarantee. Also, coaching isn't magic and X's and O's isn't everything. Development counts for a lot (Snyder didn't get results until year 4). This might not be a year 1 thing. Plus, Wilcox is still running the show.

6. Generally, what "experts" look at is how good you were, what you lost, what you gained, but they also look at how many question marks you have and how well your program generally fills question marks. If you are Alabama and you have 3 question marks on offense and 3 on defense, experts are generally going to say "that isn't that many question marks and generally the next guy is as good as the last, so we aren't concerned." If you are Cal and you have 22 question marks and you have a poor record of replacing top players with guys who walk in and don't miss a beat, you get a #15 prediction, which is honestly fair. When Cal loses the amount of experienced, quality talent we lost this offseason, balance of the probabilities is that we simply can't come close to backfilling that with guys who can come in and match that production day 1. We didn't have a recruiting year that on paper people are jazzed about. Based on the available information, I think the most logical prediction is that we are going to take a pretty big hit on available, experienced, starting talent for this year. Now, as is generally the case, available information on recruiting is very imperfect, so we could be a lot better. We could be a lot worse.

7. The difference between cellar and middle of the conference will be heavily impacted by how well one of the QB's steps into the job. If someone comes in and plays really great, we could raise or ceiling. If they don't prove to be ready this year, that floor could get really low.

I can't criticize the "experts'" prediction here. If I were coming at it from a place of neutrality, I could see landing there. My gut tells me that a baseline, average Cal team generally wins 2-3 games in this conference and as such, I'd peg us at more like 12-14, and I have a hard time fathoming 15 because it would be a disaster.

But if I have to pick between a prediction of 15th and 7th, and put money on my pick, that isn't a close question. Wilcox has had 8 seasons and has had losing conference records in 8 of them. Cal has had losing conference records the last 15 straight years. While people hoped that changing to what they perceived as an easier conference would change our fortunes, our conference record last year is our 12th best in those 15 tries. I don't see the argument that the likely result is that we are poised to have our best year in 16 years, years that included having Jared Goff. Frankly, we don't even know who are main starters are going to be or where our production is coming from. If I were to say predict the future, we beat Duke and Virginia because players A, B, and C, lead us to victory, you could not predict with confidence who A, B, and C might be. There are a ton of question marks out there, not just at Cal, but everywhere, so everything is possible and we can hope for a lot. Predict though? No, I'm not predicting Cal, with almost no returning production and without a recruiting class studded with All Americans, is about to have its best year since 2009. I know, 7th place doesn't seem that extraordinary, but it would be for us.



You and I are mostly in agreement. I think the assessment of #15 is overly pessimistic, but is reasonable and is closer than #7 which I view as our potential (ceiling).

"Should be able to" is different than "will." We had a great set up last year to have a season like SMU did but blew it by keeping Wilcox, who actively held the team back and lost games with horrible 4th quarter coaching decisions in games we were winning. I do agree that winning those games or "should have won" is fool's gold. We would have been exposed once we played a good team like SMU was once they played a good team. You are right, we were not a great team, I just meant we had a great team telative to this year's team. Anyone who thinks our talent is as good as last year is fooling themselves. However, once again we will have one of our easiest schedules in the last 75 years.

Saying we <could> get to #7 if Rivera et al help Wilcox overcome himself is faint praise. #7 in the ACC is not going to save us in the next realignment. #7 in the ACC should not get Wilcox year 10, but it might, which could be worse than finishing #15.
calumnus
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TandemBear said:

Bobodeluxe said:

Oh, ye of little faith! Reloading is the name of the game.
OMG.


To be fair, the overall rankings are more applicable:
https://247sports.com/season/2025-football/overallteamrankings/?Conference=ACC

Still, people need to understand why we are being picked so low. We are replacing most of our team but our incoming class (HS and Portal) is ranked #13 in the ACC. Doesn't mean we can't finish in the top half of the conference or even challenge for the ACC Championship, but no objective outsider is going to predict that.
Rushinbear
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calumnus said:

TandemBear said:

Bobodeluxe said:

Oh, ye of little faith! Reloading is the name of the game.
OMG.


To be fair, the overall rankings are more applicable:
https://247sports.com/season/2025-football/overallteamrankings/?Conference=ACC

Still, people need to understand why we are being picked so low. We are replacing most of our team but our incoming class (HS and Portal) is ranked #13 in the ACC. Doesn't mean we can't finish in the top half of the conference or even challenge for the ACC Championship, but no objective outsider is going to predict that.
Being overlooked, I think, is the ability of the new players to learn and incorporate the Cal systems. On O, any player has the same challenge when their hc and oc are replaced, but that is minimized by the players' knowing one another from prior years. The challenge on D is less, since it is more of a read and react endeavor.

A good part of our success this year will hinge on the experience of O newcomers and their intelligence. I think Devin Brown has the best chance to succeed at that, having learned at a top level place. The OL will have the least challenge at that, since theirs is largely a coordinating/working together challenge. I think the new OL guys will do well.

Because of this, the other main factor will be the athletic ability of the newcomers compared to those who have left. D looks strong in that regard, even considering the db's who left. Since the running game is changing to grind it out anyway, the rb's are a question mark. The wr's could be a wash and the ol will be better (have to be).

Because of the schedule, I'm putting on my pollyanna hat and going with 8-4.
Bearly Clad
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I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
calumnus
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6956bear said:

socaltownie said:

Bobodeluxe said:

Oh, ye of little faith! Reloading is the name of the game.
I thought there was talk of a top 10 class or is that the portal class? That link is scary
That is the HS class rankings for 2025. This years incoming HS class. Which does not inlcude JKS. He is included in the transfer class which resides in the middle tier of the ACC. But the transfer ratings on 247 are simply committed/enrolled transfers. Does not include the transfers out.

On3 does a net rating of transfer classes and has Cal much lower. Cal of course lost Mendoza, Ott, Endries and Jet to the portal. So the net ratings reflect those losses.

The ACC has a ton of similar talent teams. Other than Clemson and Miami there are really a lot of similar teams. The margins in games vs UNC, Duke, UVa, etc appear slim so mistakes, coaching, injuries and game location likely matter a lot.

Cal does not play Clemson or Miami. Or FSU. SMU and Louisville appear to be the toughest opponents based on talent levels.

We will see if the coaching changes along with an emphasis on OL in the portal can offset the losses in the portal and graduation. But on paper it is easy to see why many that cover the ACC has Cal predicted down the standings.


Just to be clear, you meant the 2026 HS class where we are currently #26 (actually tied at #25).

Our 2025 HS class is #66. Our 2025 overall incoming class ranking is #56.

Also note that our 2026 Class is only highly ranked at this point because we have a lot of early commits (21). However, none are 4 or 5 stars. If this holds the 2026 HS class will probably finish in the 60s again.

So our incoming 2025 class overall is #56
Our incoming 2024 class overall was #39
According to Sagarin we were the #67 team nationally, #12 in the ACC in 2024. So you can see why outsiders think that with less projected talent we will do worse and that teams like Florida State, North Carolina and Virgina, who are recruiting better and/or made coaching changes, will jump us in the ACC standings.
KoreAmBear
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bearsandgiants said:

GoCal80 said:

https://www.on3.com/news/athlon-sports-predicts-acc-football-order-of-finish-in-2025/


They have Cal at #15 in the ACC. I suspect there are people on this board who think Cal will do better. If that is you, who do you think above #15 in this ranking Cal will beat out?


Every last one of them.
Attakid
KoreAmBear
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BearSD said:

Only have to win at least 3 conference games to finish higher than 15th. I think our Bears will do that; but of course there are many negabears here who will strongly disagree.
Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree. Have a winning conference season finally in year 9 or JW's out. That's basically where I stand. Pretty simple analysis.
01Bear
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KoreAmBear said:

BearSD said:

Only have to win at least 3 conference games to finish higher than 15th. I think our Bears will do that; but of course there are many negabears here who will strongly disagree.
Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree. Have a winning conference season finally in year 9 or JW's out. That's basically where I stand. Pretty simple analysis.

The main issue is the buyout, otherwise, Wilcox would've been on the sidelines as a DC for some other school a while ago. Certainly, if his buyout weren't an issue, his failure to earn a winning conference record last year (in one of the easiest years in Cal's recent history) would've been enough for him to get his walking papers.
KoreAmBear
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01Bear said:

KoreAmBear said:

BearSD said:

Only have to win at least 3 conference games to finish higher than 15th. I think our Bears will do that; but of course there are many negabears here who will strongly disagree.
Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree. Have a winning conference season finally in year 9 or JW's out. That's basically where I stand. Pretty simple analysis.

The main issue is the buyout, otherwise, Wilcox would've been on the sidelines as a DC for some other school a while ago. Certainly, if his buyout weren't an issue, his failure to earn a winning conference record last year (in one of the easiest years in Cal's recent history) would've been enough for him to get his walking papers.
I think with our donors it's more manageable after this year. The buy out would be discounted for a lump sum and a release from a duty to mitigate. Let's hope we have a breakthrough year and this all is moot.
6956bear
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Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
BearlyCareAnymore
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6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
BearlyCareAnymore
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01Bear said:

KoreAmBear said:

BearSD said:

Only have to win at least 3 conference games to finish higher than 15th. I think our Bears will do that; but of course there are many negabears here who will strongly disagree.
Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree. Have a winning conference season finally in year 9 or JW's out. That's basically where I stand. Pretty simple analysis.

The main issue is the buyout, otherwise, Wilcox would've been on the sidelines as a DC for some other school a while ago. Certainly, if his buyout weren't an issue, his failure to earn a winning conference record last year (in one of the easiest years in Cal's recent history) would've been enough for him to get his walking papers.
This is just not consistent with Cal's behavior in the past. Dykes was going to be kept and then he kept publicly dissing the school and that was why he got fired. Beyond that, Tedford, Holmoe, Gilbertson, Kapp and Theder all got fired only when they had a complete disaster of a season where the players gave up and the fans left. The next time Cal fires a football coach because of their middling results will be the first time in my lifetime that has happened. And yes, at Cal, losing records in conference but roughly .500 overall records = middling. I'm not saying you are wrong. Maybe current leadership will be different. I'm just not taking it for granted that you are right either.

Again, Wilcox got a performance bonus for winning 6 games last year. (and will get one this year if he repeats that). It has been 48 years since Cal fired a coach that won 6 games and that was for other reasons. In the past 50 years only Dykes has been fired with 5 wins and that was for other reasons. No one has been fired with 4 wins. There have been plenty of opportunities to fire coaches with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 wins that Cal has passed up. Generally it has taken seasons of 3 or fewer wins for Cal to make a change and often multiples of those. (by generally I mean every time there wasn't some other extenuating circumstances)
Rushinbear
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6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
The new staff are experienced and are known quantities; the OL coach reflects the new O approach - grind it out. Because of this, the RB room (otherwise a gross liability) is better suited to JW's predilections. The OLs, bigger and stronger, will come around. QB has a chance to equal or better last year (esp with the ground game). WR and TE are the mystery. DL and LB will be good. DB is the other mystery - probably not as good. Kicking? who knows.

So, to win, we'll have to score more points than we did last year. To do this, JW has to stop trying to be Mr. Niceguy. He's not in a Niceguy profession. 8-4.
6956bear
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever before.

BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Rushinbear said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
The new staff are experienced and are known quantities; the OL coach reflects the new O approach - grind it out. Because of this, the RB room (otherwise a gross liability) is better suited to JW's predilections. The OLs, bigger and stronger, will come around. QB has a chance to equal or better last year (esp with the ground game). WR and TE are the mystery. DL and LB will be good. DB is the other mystery - probably not as good. Kicking? who knows.

So, to win, we'll have to score more points than we did last year. To do this, JW has to stop trying to be Mr. Niceguy. He's not in a Niceguy profession. 8-4.
Our OC hasn't coached in 3 years having been fired from his previous job when there was a mass player exodus and tons of players came out criticizing him. He came in and after spring practice there was a mass exodus of players, some being very critical going out the door. It is beyond me that this is not raising more concern than it has.

Don't know how RB is not a concern. Don't know how OL is not a concern. The consistent optimism that QB will improve this year is puzzling to me.
Jeff82
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6956bear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever bef
This would make me really depressed had I not already decided to cut my losses and buy tickets a game at a time this year. That way, once we have one or two teeth-gnashing losses, I can reclaim my Saturdays to work on my golf game.
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Jeff82 said:

6956bear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever bef
This would make me really depressed had I not already decided to cut my losses and buy tickets a game at a time this year. That way, once we have one or two teeth-gnashing losses, I can reclaim my Saturdays to work on my golf game.
Jeff, I'm not sure why you as a long time Cal fan would be depressed by this. We aren't in a worse position this year than in about 75% of our years in the last half century.
Rushinbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearlyCareAnymore said:

Rushinbear said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
The new staff are experienced and are known quantities; the OL coach reflects the new O approach - grind it out. Because of this, the RB room (otherwise a gross liability) is better suited to JW's predilections. The OLs, bigger and stronger, will come around. QB has a chance to equal or better last year (esp with the ground game). WR and TE are the mystery. DL and LB will be good. DB is the other mystery - probably not as good. Kicking? who knows.

So, to win, we'll have to score more points than we did last year. To do this, JW has to stop trying to be Mr. Niceguy. He's not in a Niceguy profession. 8-4.
Our OC hasn't coached in 3 years having been fired from his previous job when there was a mass player exodus and tons of players came out criticizing him. He came in and after spring practice there was a mass exodus of players, some being very critical going out the door. It is beyond me that this is not raising more concern than it has.

Don't know how RB is not a concern. Don't know how OL is not a concern. The consistent optimism that QB will improve this year is puzzling to me.
If we had a speed and finesse team last year, I'm not surprised at the departures. RB would otherwise be a gross liability, but will do better running behind the grinders that have been brought in. Doesn't mean I think they'll be stars. At WR, Grizzell will get a lot of work and Grayes will finally come to the surface, altho Hamper's appearance on the depth chart makes me think that someone knows something. We'll miss Endries.

So, running will be conservative, as will passing. We'll win by overpowering in the 4th.

Everything will ride on the DBs. But, how many super QB's will we face? We'll be able to score 35, but not 50.
Fred Bear
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Quote:

Our OC hasn't coached in 3 years having been fired from his previous job when there was a mass player exodus and tons of players came out criticizing him. He came in and after spring practice there was a mass exodus of players, some being very critical going out the door. It is beyond me that this is not raising more concern than it has.

Don't know how RB is not a concern. Don't know how OL is not a concern. The consistent optimism that QB will improve this year is puzzling to me.
If Cal fans had existed in Aesop's time, the boy who cried wolf would have gone to Berkeley and continued telling everybody that Cal football would be good next year and he never would have been exposed as a liar. Most gullible fanbase in all of college sports.
HearstMining
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6956bear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever before.


Cal's football's slogan for 2025: "Anything can happen with my boys"
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearlyCareAnymore said:

Jeff82 said:

6956bear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever bef
This would make me really depressed had I not already decided to cut my losses and buy tickets a game at a time this year. That way, once we have one or two teeth-gnashing losses, I can reclaim my Saturdays to work on my golf game.
Jeff, I'm not sure why you as a long time Cal fan would be depressed by this. We aren't in a worse position this year than in about 75% of our years in the last half century.


For most of that time, losing had no real consequences. We got the same cut from the Pac-12 as USC did.

We got left behind when the Pac-12 broke up but have been given an opportunity with admission to the ACC and historically easy schedules in 2024 and 2025. Wilcox squandered last year's opportunity and it is depressing to think he will squander this year's. Time is running out before the next realignment.
calumnus
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BearlyCareAnymore said:

Rushinbear said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
The new staff are experienced and are known quantities; the OL coach reflects the new O approach - grind it out. Because of this, the RB room (otherwise a gross liability) is better suited to JW's predilections. The OLs, bigger and stronger, will come around. QB has a chance to equal or better last year (esp with the ground game). WR and TE are the mystery. DL and LB will be good. DB is the other mystery - probably not as good. Kicking? who knows.

So, to win, we'll have to score more points than we did last year. To do this, JW has to stop trying to be Mr. Niceguy. He's not in a Niceguy profession. 8-4.
Our OC hasn't coached in 3 years having been fired from his previous job when there was a mass player exodus and tons of players came out criticizing him. He came in and after spring practice there was a mass exodus of players, some being very critical going out the door. It is beyond me that this is not raising more concern than it has.

Don't know how RB is not a concern. Don't know how OL is not a concern. The consistent optimism that QB will improve this year is puzzling to me.


Harsin went 7-12 at Auburn vs FBS schools before getting fired. His offenses were bad.

2021Auburn
#68 scoring, #67 total yards, #65 ypp

2022 Auburn
#86 scoring, #73 total yards, #61 ypp

Harsin had the #27 defense in 2021, which at 7-12 is why he won as many as he did.
6956bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

Jeff82 said:

6956bear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever bef
This would make me really depressed had I not already decided to cut my losses and buy tickets a game at a time this year. That way, once we have one or two teeth-gnashing losses, I can reclaim my Saturdays to work on my golf game.
Jeff, I'm not sure why you as a long time Cal fan would be depressed by this. We aren't in a worse position this year than in about 75% of our years in the last half century.


For most of that time, losing had no real consequences. We got the same cut from the Pac-12 as USC did.

We got left behind when the Pac-12 broke up but have been given an opportunity with admission to the ACC and historically easy schedules in 2024 and 2025. Wilcox squandered last year's opportunity and it is depressing to think he will squander this year's. Time is running out before the next realignment.
Yes the program got the same cut of the TV money as did USC. But they lost out on attendance dollars, donations and everything else that comes with winning. It was almost a conscious effort to be bad. They participated but did not invest. The breakup of the P12 forced a massive rethink.

Now the clock is running. Fast. There is so much going on behind the scenes nationally that realignment could come very quickly. The House settlement, CFP negotiations etc that will drive schools and conferences into new models.

There is a real push from PE to get involved. I am not a fan of it, but they bring dollars to the equation. Dollars that many programs not in the SEC or B1G need. And there are schools in those conferences looking at it as well. It costs a lot of money to run athletics. And now you have to pay the athletes as well. Cal is taking on the great effort to get as many programs fully endowed as possible. They will need to cut some programs. That is still a can they are kicking down the road. 2027 (Lyons timeline) is 2 years down the road. Think about what has happened in the last 2 years. The changes to college athletics are coming at laser speed. They needed to cut 2 years ago. Or earlier.

Not cashing in on last seasons schedule hurt. Failure to do that again will hurt more. But the die may have been cast already with how they have operated for so long.

Cal has never been more all in on football than they are right now. The staff is much bigger. The addition of Rivera along with Knowlton retiring has given Cal a focus on football like never before. They really need to win, not just for realignment but to enjoy the spoils that winning at football provides. Football was always the investment ignored but now is in the spotlight. They need to win. Otherwise it is just the same old Cal. The lovable dysfunctional loser.

Winning does not solve everything. But it is a start.
Bobodeluxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HearstMining said:

6956bear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever before.


Cal's football's slogan for 2025: "Anything can happen with my boys"
We're getting very close to a real scandal now.
Jeff82
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearlyCareAnymore said:

Jeff82 said:

6956bear said:

BearlyCareAnymore said:

6956bear said:

Bearly Clad said:

I mean let's be honest: preseason power rankings are meaningless. The B12 cancelled theirs moving forward because the conference media predictions would have been 80% accurate if you flipped them upside down (last to first and first to last, etc.)

Still being honest: why should anyone give us the benefit of the doubt? We missed out on a 10-win season last year by like 10 total points but that points to a coaching issue that many of us have felt intensely. We don't have a good track record of recent success. We also lost a lot of key pieces; sure we replaced them, but from an outsider's perspective it's fair to say that we have a higher ceiling than most anticipate with our soft schedule but that until we prove it on the field that expectations should remain low.

Summation: I don't enjoy it but I think it's entirely fair that we are rated low going into this season
These polls and predictions are fun but almost meaningless given the current landscape of the sport. NIL, Transfer portal, random eligibility increases etc. Last season the Big 12 pre season poll had Utah picked 1st. Oklahoma St picked 3rd. Arizona 5th. Iowa St 6th. BYU picked 13th and ASU 16th (last) .

Well ASU won the conference and went to the CFP. They played Iowa St who was picked 6th. BYU and Colorado (preseason 11th). All were tied at 7-2 but ASU and Iowa St won tie breakers to get to the Big 12 championship game.

Utah and Arizona both stunk. They finished 2-7 in conference and neither made a bowl. Oklahoma St was dreadful. They went winless in conference and dead last. The picks were so bad the media is not even doing pre season polling in the Big 12 for 2025. At least the Big 12 media isn't picking at their media days which start soon.

The ACC was better but they were dead wrong on FSU. FSU picked 1st but finsihed last. The only thing keeping them from going winless was of course the awful Cal loss to FSU in a game where Cal won nearly every stat but somehow lost. Sacks, missed kicks and a huge miss by Mendoza with Grizzel open for TD late cost the Bears.

They had NC State as 4th. They finsihed 3-5 and should have been 2-6 but for a 28 yd FG miss by the Bears late in the game. SMU was picked 7th but finished 1st at 8-0 but lost to Clemson in the ACC championship game. They still made the CFP and finished 11-3 overall.

Syracuse was picked 12th but had a nice season. They went 5-3 in conference but had a 10 win season by going unbeaten in OOC and won their bowl.

These pundits were wrong a lot last season. And some of the misses were huge. FSU, Utah, Okie St., Arizona in particular were given way too much credit for the previous seasons. All had very bad seasons. ASU, BYU SMU and Syracuse were big misses the other direction.

I understand why they picked these programs where they did. But the usual metrics are no longer the predictors they used to be. Injuries, QB play and unbalanced schedules make it so much harder to predict.

I am not saying Cal will pull an ASU but I think these predictions now have to be taken with a huge boulder of salt. The usual metrics are no longer as useful and the unbalanced schedules make predicting so much harder.

Cal has had huge personnel turnover. A ton of new coaches including the OC, DC and S&C. And they still have Justin Wilcox at HC. So while I can be persuaded to believe Cal will suprise folks, I see too many ifs that have to happen. If the new staff is better. If the OL comes around. If the QB play is good enough. If the defense can replace the entire secondary and other key losses. If they can stay relatively healthy (New S&C) If all the skill position losses are replaced with at least decent performance. If they can make a FG when the game is on the line. If most of these ifs go right the team has a chance for a good season.

But that is a lot of ifs. Too many for me.
When I was a kid, every few months I would take long drives with my father and inevitably, no matter what time of year, we talked Cal football. And it was always a list of if, if, if, we got a shot. Looking back, it was a lot like the Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene. As a kid, I genuinely thought we could do it. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus and I realized (at that time), we (along with the rest of the conference) were completely outmanned by USC, UCLA and UW. Their guys were bigger and faster and they had more of them and when one graduated there was another guy you never heard of that would be just as good. That teams just don't have answers for 8 question marks. The thing that shocked me the most when I joined the Cal sports internet community in the Holmoe era, and continues to shock me today, is that there are lots of grown ass men with 10, 20, 30, 40 years or more of history watching college football that still evaluate Cal football in a way that I grew out of by the time I was in high school.

It is not rocket science. I certainly do not have a perfect track record predicting Cal football. However, every time Cal has been good in my life, I thought we were going to be good. There has never been a season where we succeeded and I didn't see it coming. No question, it is harder now with teams turning over a lot more personnel. Everyone has more question marks. I would never say that we can't be good. But I just don't see that there is anything to hang one's hat on to say we will be good. We have questions at something like 20 positions. We lost the large majority of our quality players and our incoming recruiting class is rated very low. If one is going to make the argument that we are going to be good, I don't see what that argument could be other than "anything can happen".

Yes, too many ifs.
There it is. Sure anything can happen. But we agree the number of things that need to go well seem to be a bit too many for me (and you). But I do think we know much less about this team and our opponents than ever bef
This would make me really depressed had I not already decided to cut my losses and buy tickets a game at a time this year. That way, once we have one or two teeth-gnashing losses, I can reclaim my Saturdays to work on my golf game.
Jeff, I'm not sure why you as a long time Cal fan would be depressed by this. We aren't in a worse position this year than in about 75% of our years in the last half century.
I'm not depressed, because I have moved somewhat into the camp of your handle. After 50+ years following Cal football, I finally decided not to bang my head against the wall as regularly as I have in the past. Feels good.
smh
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Quote:

> I'm not depressed, because I have moved somewhat into the camp of your handle. After 50+ years following Cal football, I finally decided not to bang my head against the wall as regularly as I have in the past. Feels good.

^ jeff bridges' line in "The Big Lebowski" of 1998
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
RenoBear
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The Dude abides!
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