sycasey said:

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I suspect we'll get one or two more day games at home like we did last season, so there should be more opportunities to bring kids.

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We would need a pretty good record to be given an afternoon slot for Virginia.

Strykur said:

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sycasey said:

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I suspect we'll get one or two more day games at home like we did last season, so there should be more opportunities to bring kids.

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We would need a pretty good record to be given an afternoon slot for Virginia.

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Nah, we could easily just get an ACC Network slot for that, like for NC State last year.

Lets hope the furd game is not at midnight.

oskidunker said:

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Lets hope the furd game is not at midnight.

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If they continue to play turd ball it will probably be a noon kickoff or 7:30PM

HearstMining said:

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LunchTime said:

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7:30 is an absurd time even if you don't have kids.

Unfortunately, my almost-4-year-old is super excited for football games for some reason, and so far there is one that I can take him to (next weekend), and that's about it, outside of the Big Game.

That's fine, but I don't see future Cal fans being made by watching my local team on TV after the kids are asleep.

TV money is great, and it sure does make it easy to be casual.

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How about taking him to the first half of a game? Depending on your drive home, it could still make for a very late night for a 4 year-old, but even if he only sees half a game, he'd still have a great time! Irked about paying full price for only half a game? Look for tickets a few days before on TickPick, SeatGeek, etc. For low-attendance games, the Cal ATO sells thru one of them (I don't recall which) at below list price.

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Make sure to stay through halftime so the kiddos will become fans of the Cal Band too!

LunchTime said:

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HearstMining said:

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LunchTime said:

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7:30 is an absurd time even if you don't have kids.

Unfortunately, my almost-4-year-old is super excited for football games for some reason, and so far there is one that I can take him to (next weekend), and that's about it, outside of the Big Game.

That's fine, but I don't see future Cal fans being made by watching my local team on TV after the kids are asleep.

TV money is great, and it sure does make it easy to be casual.

---

How about taking him to the first half of a game? Depending on your drive home, it could still make for a very late night for a 4 year-old, but even if he only sees half a game, he'd still have a great time! Irked about paying full price for only half a game? Look for tickets a few days before on TickPick, SeatGeek, etc. For low-attendance games, the Cal ATO sells thru one of them (I don't recall which) at below list price.

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To be fair...

Every game is a half game for the younger one. When I do go, I buy a ticket for my sister and she provides the luxury of taking them home.

7:30 is still too late to do the first half though. They go to bed at 7 to 8.


I take them to pre-game show and percussion warm up and do the shoulders for march up. They already love our band.

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A few more years they'll talk you into letting them stay for the whole game. Hopefully, you'll cave and LET IT HAPPEN!!

LunchTime said:

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HearstMining said:

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LunchTime said:

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7:30 is an absurd time even if you don't have kids.

Unfortunately, my almost-4-year-old is super excited for football games for some reason, and so far there is one that I can take him to (next weekend), and that's about it, outside of the Big Game.

That's fine, but I don't see future Cal fans being made by watching my local team on TV after the kids are asleep.

TV money is great, and it sure does make it easy to be casual.

---

How about taking him to the first half of a game? Depending on your drive home, it could still make for a very late night for a 4 year-old, but even if he only sees half a game, he'd still have a great time! Irked about paying full price for only half a game? Look for tickets a few days before on TickPick, SeatGeek, etc. For low-attendance games, the Cal ATO sells thru one of them (I don't recall which) at below list price.

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To be fair...

Every game is a half game for the younger one. When I do go, I buy a ticket for my sister and she provides the luxury of taking them home.

7:30 is still too late to do the first half though. They go to bed at 7 to 8.


I take them to pre-game show and percussion warm up and do the shoulders for march up. They already love our band.

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Good job for getting them there! I thought about trying with a couple of my grandkids, ages 4 and 6. But last week we adopted a new dog and don't want to leave her at home alone for at least a couple of months.

Sebastabear said:

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Not to get all "facty" or anything, but….. Scheduling is a thing none of us can change.

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Your dedication story is pretty good, and you got 32 stars so far, but I just did an AI query for who the richest Cal graduates are. I bet one of them could change the kickoff time!


…okay. Sorry. I'll try not to be a smart ass with people I respect.

CALiforniALUM said:

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If we aren't complaining about the game time we are complaining about the game experience. If we aren't complaining about the coach we are complaining about the administration. If we aren't complaining about the offensive line we are just aren't complaining enough.

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As an East Coast Old Blue, you forgot my fav: complaints about the weather!!!!

I drive from Santa Rosa for the games. I usually do not mind the evening games, but I wonder if anyone watches them on TV that is not on the West Coast, or are people on the East Coast just used to staying up late to watch games? I think when people say why they are not going to games, someone should make note of that for possible changes in the future when there is new contract or conference, or at least they know why attendance is low.

For late games, make sure of what time your parking garage or public transportation closes. I spent a night in Berkeley when the city garage my car was in closed at 10pm, and I attended an 8pm basketball game.

Anarchistbear said:

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CALiforniALUM said:

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If we aren't complaining about the game time we are complaining about the game experience. If we aren't complaining about the coach we are complaining about the administration. If we aren't complaining about the offensive line we are just aren't complaining enough.

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Who do I see about more piped in music ?

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I want water with better ph balance.

sycasey said:

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Here's the thing: the night games tend to get better attendance than the day games, even if they're rough for the old folks. More students show up. And the ratings are also better than for other time slots because there is less competition (example: our 7:30 home game vs Auburn in 2023 got way more viewers than our 12:30 road game in 2024). The only slot that could potentially get us better ratings would be prime time on ABC, and that is tough because of how much ESPN favors the SEC for those slots.

So I get the complaints, but the late games really are better for exposure.

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This is false.

Average attendance kickoff at or after 7:00 (12 games): 39,936
Average attendance kickoff before 7:00 (33 games): 39,261

The average attendance for home games during the Wilcox era is practically identical for day and night games (2020 excluded of course). That's just the bulk sample and there are a lot of factors in an individual game which can influence attendance besides start time but in 45 games over 7 years that's going to mostly even out.

For instance all three Big Games played at Memorial were day games which boosts the average. However, all 7 games vs FCS opponents were also day games which lowers the average. In general the night game opponent tended to be higher quality. The GameDay game against Miami which was probably the biggest non-Big Game of the Wilcox era was at night, which boosted the average. The WSU game in 2017 which suffered from the fire smoke was at night which lowered the average.

Note that kickoff times divided almost cleanly into night/day. Among games which kicked off before 7:00 PM, only one kicked off after 4:00 (that was a 5:00 game in October).

I don't think day/night has much of an effect on official attendance though I do think it has a big impact on the average attendance at the end of the game. Crowd attrition during a night game is much worse than a day game. It also has an impact on crowd composition. Fewer young children and elderly at night, more in the 18--60 range.

I also don't think it has an appreciable effect on student attendance. The main drivers of student attendance are (1) whether the season has spoiled yet and (2) whether the opponent has special significance like Stanford, UCLA, USC or marquee OOC names.

My own preference is for a mix between early afternoon, late afternoon and night kickoffs with day kickoffs outnumbering night 2:1

kal kommie said:

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sycasey said:

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Here's the thing: the night games tend to get better attendance than the day games, even if they're rough for the old folks. More students show up. And the ratings are also better than for other time slots because there is less competition (example: our 7:30 home game vs Auburn in 2023 got way more viewers than our 12:30 road game in 2024). The only slot that could potentially get us better ratings would be prime time on ABC, and that is tough because of how much ESPN favors the SEC for those slots.

So I get the complaints, but the late games really are better for exposure.

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This is false.

Average attendance kickoff at or after 7:00 (12 games): 39,936
Average attendance kickoff before 7:00 (33 games): 39,261

The average attendance for home games during the Wilcox era is practically identical for day and night games (2020 excluded of course). That's just the bulk sample and there are a lot of factors in an individual game which can influence attendance besides start time but in 45 games over 7 years that's going to mostly even out.

For instance all three Big Games played at Memorial were day games which boosts the average. However, all 7 games vs FCS opponents were also day games which lowers the average. In general the night game opponent tended to be higher quality. The GameDay game against Miami which was probably the biggest non-Big Game of the Wilcox era was at night, which boosted the average. The WSU game in 2017 which suffered from the fire smoke was at night which lowered the average.

Note that kickoff times divided almost cleanly into night/day. Among games which kicked off before 7:00 PM, only one kicked off after 4:00 (that was a 5:00 game in October).

I don't think day/night has much of an effect on official attendance though I do think it has a big impact on the average attendance at the end of the game. Crowd attrition during a night game is much worse than a day game. It also has an impact on crowd composition. Fewer young children and elderly at night, more in the 18--60 range.

I also don't think it has an appreciable effect on student attendance. The main drivers of student attendance are (1) whether the season has spoiled yet and (2) whether the opponent has special significance like Stanford, UCLA, USC or marquee OOC names.

My own preference is for a mix between early afternoon, late afternoon and night kickoffs with day kickoffs outnumbering night 2:1

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He said "attendance" but his entire paragraph was about TV viewership. Our TV viewership is decidedly better for night games. That is why ESPN puts us there,

calumnus said:

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kal kommie said:

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sycasey said:

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Here's the thing: the night games tend to get better attendance than the day games, even if they're rough for the old folks. More students show up. And the ratings are also better than for other time slots because there is less competition (example: our 7:30 home game vs Auburn in 2023 got way more viewers than our 12:30 road game in 2024). The only slot that could potentially get us better ratings would be prime time on ABC, and that is tough because of how much ESPN favors the SEC for those slots.

So I get the complaints, but the late games really are better for exposure.

---

This is false.

Average attendance kickoff at or after 7:00 (12 games): 39,936
Average attendance kickoff before 7:00 (33 games): 39,261

The average attendance for home games during the Wilcox era is practically identical for day and night games (2020 excluded of course). That's just the bulk sample and there are a lot of factors in an individual game which can influence attendance besides start time but in 45 games over 7 years that's going to mostly even out.

For instance all three Big Games played at Memorial were day games which boosts the average. However, all 7 games vs FCS opponents were also day games which lowers the average. In general the night game opponent tended to be higher quality. The GameDay game against Miami which was probably the biggest non-Big Game of the Wilcox era was at night, which boosted the average. The WSU game in 2017 which suffered from the fire smoke was at night which lowered the average.

Note that kickoff times divided almost cleanly into night/day. Among games which kicked off before 7:00 PM, only one kicked off after 4:00 (that was a 5:00 game in October).

I don't think day/night has much of an effect on official attendance though I do think it has a big impact on the average attendance at the end of the game. Crowd attrition during a night game is much worse than a day game. It also has an impact on crowd composition. Fewer young children and elderly at night, more in the 18--60 range.

I also don't think it has an appreciable effect on student attendance. The main drivers of student attendance are (1) whether the season has spoiled yet and (2) whether the opponent has special significance like Stanford, UCLA, USC or marquee OOC names.

My own preference is for a mix between early afternoon, late afternoon and night kickoffs with day kickoffs outnumbering night 2:1

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He said "attendance" but his entire paragraph was about TV viewership. Our TV viewership is decidedly better for night games. That is why ESPN puts us there,

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The first two sentences of a five sentence post were explicitly about attendance so I think addressing it is good.

As for ratings, I'll take your word for it though it makes sense given the market. I fully recognize that regardless we have no choice in the start times which is why I do not b*tch about it as I do the band or other things within our control.

golden sloth said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Who do I see about more piped in music ?

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I talked to a guy at Boston Market about it.

sycasey said:

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Strykur said:

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sycasey said:

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I suspect we'll get one or two more day games at home like we did last season, so there should be more opportunities to bring kids.

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We would need a pretty good record to be given an afternoon slot for Virginia.

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Nah, we could easily just get an ACC Network slot for that, like for NC State last year.

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True. But IMO the best way to get more fan friendly home start times is to win. A good winning program will get good time slots more often. Those 7:30 games become 4:30 or 12:30. At least for good conference opponents.

6956bear said:

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sycasey said:

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Strykur said:

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sycasey said:

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I suspect we'll get one or two more day games at home like we did last season, so there should be more opportunities to bring kids.

---

We would need a pretty good record to be given an afternoon slot for Virginia.

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Nah, we could easily just get an ACC Network slot for that, like for NC State last year.

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True. But IMO the best way to get more fan friendly home start times is to win. A good winning program will get good time slots more often. Those 7:30 games become 4:30 or 12:30. At least for good conference opponents.

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The only way we'll get the 4:30 ABC slot (12:30 is reserved for SEC) is to be a top-25 team playing another ranked team or be fringe/others receiving votes against a top 15 team. I'd argue 7:30 ESPN slot is better than 4:30 ESPN because you're not going head to head with the premier ABC game of the week. We really have a pretty good setup and can become a premier west coast team if we win

6956bear said:

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sycasey said:

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Strykur said:

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sycasey said:

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I suspect we'll get one or two more day games at home like we did last season, so there should be more opportunities to bring kids.

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We would need a pretty good record to be given an afternoon slot for Virginia.

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Nah, we could easily just get an ACC Network slot for that, like for NC State last year.

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True. But IMO the best way to get more fan friendly home start times is to win. A good winning program will get good time slots more often. Those 7:30 games become 4:30 or 12:30. At least for good conference opponents.

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As I have explained: not necessarily. ESPN heavily favors the SEC for those "prime" slots so Cal's best ratings slot may well be at 7:30.

6956bear said:

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sycasey said:

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Strykur said:

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sycasey said:

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I suspect we'll get one or two more day games at home like we did last season, so there should be more opportunities to bring kids.

---

We would need a pretty good record to be given an afternoon slot for Virginia.

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Nah, we could easily just get an ACC Network slot for that, like for NC State last year.

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True. But IMO the best way to get more fan friendly home start times is to win. A good winning program will get good time slots more often. Those 7:30 games become 4:30 or 12:30. At least for good conference opponents.

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Should also add: what you say here was probably more true in the Pac-12 days, when we could get games featured on Fox or ABC without having to compete with the SEC for those slots (the SEC broadcast network was CBS in those days). It's different now. The SEC rules ESPN/ABC and the ACC is the second fiddle.