old blue in our group, he did not want to get season tickets this year because of it. Cal should fight a little bit harder to not allow almost all of the home games, to be the late game in the future....
Its pretty F'd up that the majority of our games are at 7:30pm. As we have a 80 plus
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Last: 19 hrs ago by sycasey
It bites us on the other end. 7:30 is too late to bring the grandkids to the games, unless you are ok listening to the fourth quarter on the radio. And I am not.
Sadly, TV money makes stadium fans disposable. It will probably never again be as it once was. At least I have all those fond memories of our Rose Bowl games…
Sadly, TV money makes stadium fans disposable. It will probably never again be as it once was. At least I have all those fond memories of our Rose Bowl games…
I've read that both UCLA and USC fans thought that they would get earlier times and are not happy either. Ironically away games will be earlier just not home games.
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gobears3000 said:
old blue in our group, he did not want to get season tickets this year because of it. Cal should fight a little bit harder to not allow almost all of the home games, to be the late game in the future....
Cal has ZERO to do with the TV times. Zero. They can fight as hard as they want but if they play in the ACC, they are tied to TV deals where they do not control their kickoff times. This is true for every Power4 team.
We are a West Coast team. If we want national TV, national TV $$$ and national relevancy, we will be playing most of our home and West Coast games at night. We should try to figure out how to adapt to it.
For older fans, maybe make spending the night at a Berkeley hotel part of your game plan?
For older fans, maybe make spending the night at a Berkeley hotel part of your game plan?
calumnus said:
We are a West Coast team. If we want national TV, national TV $$$ and national relevancy, we will be playing most of our home and West Coast games at night. We should try to figure out how to adapt to it.
For older fans, maybe make spending the night at a Berkeley hotel part of your game plan?
Thats why I no longer have season tickets. If you stay overnight,try thr faculty club. Closest. Imlive 45 min away so kind of crazy to do that. Someday waymo
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
the only way to get afternoon games at home is to become nationally relevant, by winning a bunch of games over the next few years
OC Bear said:
the only way to get afternoon games at home is to become nationally relevant, by winning a bunch of games over the next few years
I think later afternoon games at Memorial are ideal and in reach. Still fills a needed later national time slot. Gives you time to tailgate/lunch in Berkeley, watch other games, drink, see the Band at Sproul…. Then after the game, go to dinner, keep drinking or get home early.
I concur I part. Sure, afternoon games at Memorial are wonderful for the fans in attendance. but they don't matter; tv eyeballs do. Being on the national espn game at night is far better for the health of the program vs a 1:00 pm kick being carried on the ACCNet app.
There's a reason that JKS is getting all the love today. His outstanding performance was broadcast on the national network.
There's a reason that JKS is getting all the love today. His outstanding performance was broadcast on the national network.
OC Bear said:
I concur I part. Sure, afternoon games at Memorial are wonderful for the fans in attendance. but they don't matter; tv eyeballs do. Being on the national espn game at night is far better for the health of the program vs a 1:00 pm kick being carried on the ACCNet app.
There's a reason that JKS is getting all the love today. His outstanding performance was broadcast on the national network.
Not 1:00 pm. Late afternoon. 3:30 or 4:00. That is a Saturday night prime time kickoff on the East Coast. Lots of eyeballs on TV and a great day in Berkeley for the fans.
Here's the thing: the night games tend to get better attendance than the day games, even if they're rough for the old folks. More students show up. And the ratings are also better than for other time slots because there is less competition (example: our 7:30 home game vs Auburn in 2023 got way more viewers than our 12:30 road game in 2024). The only slot that could potentially get us better ratings would be prime time on ABC, and that is tough because of how much ESPN favors the SEC for those slots.
So I get the complaints, but the late games really are better for exposure.
So I get the complaints, but the late games really are better for exposure.
OC Bear said:
the only way to get afternoon games at home is to become nationally relevant, by winning a bunch of games over the next few years
And even then, the late late starts wouldn't be entirely eliminated. Last season, Oregon had two games start at 7 pm Pacific time or later on Saturday (one home, one away) and two Friday night games (one home, one away). But at least their four conference home games on Saturdays started no later than 4:30 pm Pacific time.
The start times have only been announced for 3 of our home games so far, and one of them is on a Friday, so it was already a given that would be a night game. Our first home game is 3pm, second at 7:30, but we don't know times for the other yet. I am not fond of the night games, especially as we get into late October and November, so I hope we get some day games for the ones where start times haven't been announced yet.
glutton said:
The start times have only been announced for 3 of our home games so far, and one of them is on a Friday, so it was already a given that would be a night game. Our first home game is 3pm, second at 7:30, but we don't know times for the other yet. I am not fond of the night games, especially as we get into late October and November, so I hope we get some day games for the ones where start times haven't been announced yet.
There will probably be a mix, though honestly if we start getting national interest with JKS the chances of night games go up. The parallel would be the Dykes years with Goff and Webb when our offense made us entertaining.
glutton said:
The start times have only been announced for 3 of our home games so far, and one of them is on a Friday, so it was already a given that would be a night game. Our first home game is 3pm, second at 7:30, but we don't know times for the other yet. I am not fond of the night games, especially as we get into late October and November, so I hope we get some day games for the ones where start times haven't been announced yet.
Yes. Not to get all "facty" or anything, but there are exactly two announced 7:30 home games so far. And as noted, one of them is on a Friday night so it has to be a night game by definition. Other scheduled 7:30 games Cal is playing are away and have absolutely nothing to do with season tickets. So two announced 7:30 games and the OP's friend is just out? Really?
Also, as BG noted, it is absurd to think Cal could have changed this scheduling if it had only "fought harder." Has no one been paying attention here? FOX isn't paying the B1G $1bn annually for the right to broadcast games when the teams feel like playing. Nor is ESPN, etc. That boat sailed 20 years ago. TV networks are paying for the right to broadcast games when they want and how they want. Cal might as well complain to the clouds about the rain. It would have an equal effect (well, except the clouds wouldn't get pissed off by our complaints and kick us out during the next round of realignment, which is a very real possibility from the TV networks if we become an obnoxious thorn in their side).
Lastly, I am continually baffled by fans who equate their personal preferences with some immutable law of physics. This is like the nut who kept posting over and over again about how Cal should drop down to the Mountain West conference so we could play UNLV because he would personally like to visit Las Vegas more. I've listened to fans stand up in Cal fan meetings and whine for three years now about how they don't feel "connected to the players" and they don't "philosophically like NIL" and blah, blah, blah. And people say grown men have a hard time expressing their feelings? Give me a break. As far as I can tell, it's all about their feelings. None of them want to spend two seconds talking about how they personally can help the program or get it to a better place, but get them going on all these "unwelcome" changes and watch out. You better clear your schedule for the rest of the day.
Hard truth is their "feelings" have absolutely no bearing on what Cal needs to do to survive and thrive in this modern climate. All they can do is chose to continue to follow and support the program or they can chose to stop being fans. That's it. But what they can't do is change the college football ecosystem and they should stop telling the rest of how they "feel" about it because it's a waste of time.
I have not missed a home football game in multiple decades. I regularly travel to away games. Just got back home at 5 AM yesterday after the OSU game. There will come a time when my health or just the passage of time will make such things impossible. it is what it is. But at that point, I am not going to demand that the world change because I got old(er). I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. I will do this as long as I can and then I will stop and Cal will hopefully go on a long time after I am dust. That's just life.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference. Scheduling is a thing none of us can change.
Hopefully getting continued wins makes the game times get adjusted up for some future games with JK balling espn/Acc will want to showcase him
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
BearGreg said:gobears3000 said:
old blue in our group, he did not want to get season tickets this year because of it. Cal should fight a little bit harder to not allow almost all of the home games, to be the late game in the future....
Cal has ZERO to do with the TV times. Zero. They can fight as hard as they want but if they play in the ACC, they are tied to TV deals where they do not control their kickoff times. This is true for every Power4 team.
This. Ironically Ohio State fans are upset over their consistent 12 noon kickoffs. They want more late afternoon or night kickoffs so they have time to tailgate. But Fox wants Ohio State often for their Big Noon Kickoffs.
Having a kid at a BIg 10, this is absolutely the case, they aren't happy when they don't get the hours of tailgating in.
All my parents and my MIL hardly sleep at all. I always thought you need less sleep when you get older
calumnus said:
We are a West Coast team. If we want national TV, national TV $$$ and national relevancy, we will be playing most of our home and West Coast games at night. We should try to figure out how to adapt to it.
For older fans, maybe make spending the night at a Berkeley hotel part of your game plan?
In other parts of the country, fans actually spend the whole day on campus tailgating, and in stay at hotels for the weekend, all without whining about game times.i
The better the west cost team, the more likely you get more night game so ESPN or Fox can put you on at a national game time. Don't like it, but I would rather have a better team with more important games.
going4roses said:
Hopefully getting continued wins makes the game times get adjusted up for some future games with JK balling espn/Acc will want to showcase him
Maybe, but as I noted that desire might actually result in more late starts, because here's how the media situation lays out in CFB right now:
1. The ACC has all of its rights with ESPN, all of them. We can't have our home games on Fox or CBS or NBC, so any of their time slots are out. The only exception is about one game per week sublicensed to the CW, and in most weeks CW wants to show ACC games early, at noon Eastern or 9am Pacific so are unlikely to pick a Cal home game. We did get one CW game last year (vs. Syracuse) so it's not impossible but you should mostly assume the games will be broadcast within the ESPN "family."
2. ESPN games include ABC, which as a major broadcast network is the best spot for exposure. Unfortunately for us, ESPN also holds all the SEC rights and massively favors the SEC for those ABC games. In fact, they are already contracted to always feature an SEC game in the 12:30 PT ABC window so Cal is completely shut out of that one. Theoretically we could get a game in the later 4:30 ABC window, but if you look at last season's picks it's pretty clear they want SEC games for that one too. Makes sense, the SEC draws the most in general and it's hard for Cal to compete with their viewership, especially with this season's slate that avoids the biggest TV draws in the ACC (Clemson, FSU, Miami).
3. That means that the "best" ESPN time slots for Cal home games are actually the 7:30 starts. We had some midday games (Oregon State) last year that didn't draw nearly as well. ESPN also has a limited inventory of possible West Coast games since losing four of the former Pac teams to the B1G, so they might literally need the Cal game to fill that late time slot in some upcoming weeks. Now there are also always a lot of moving parts in TV selections so I wouldn't make any concrete predictions on individual games, but in general I think you should assume this season that "wanting to showcase Cal" will translate to "more late games on ESPN."
Road games are another matter, of course. If we're playing in Eastern Time obviously they won't start the game at 10:30 PM there. But for games you are likely to attend? More success probably means later starts.
6956bear said:BearGreg said:gobears3000 said:
old blue in our group, he did not want to get season tickets this year because of it. Cal should fight a little bit harder to not allow almost all of the home games, to be the late game in the future....
Cal has ZERO to do with the TV times. Zero. They can fight as hard as they want but if they play in the ACC, they are tied to TV deals where they do not control their kickoff times. This is true for every Power4 team.
This. Ironically Ohio State fans are upset over their consistent 12 noon kickoffs. They want more late afternoon or night kickoffs so they have time to tailgate. But Fox wants Ohio State often for their Big Noon Kickoffs.
This is also a good point that should be repeated: fans across the Power 4 are consistently upset about start times. Even the big boys like OSU who don't want to play at noon. Many SEC fans hate early starts too, because it's too hot during the day. Doesn't matter, it's about the TV windows. Cal is not special here.
I think the only minor control we've had over start times is to ask that we not get any Thursday night games at home, because having an urban campus in the middle of a crowded area with no parking makes logistics too hard for that. So we get occasional Friday night games instead. Otherwise, we get what we get. Remember that as recently as 2009 we could have games left off of TV entirely and often had to scramble to get some meager local coverage set up, so there are flip sides to this.
Maintaining some relevancy as a member of the ACC but having to play night games vs Saturday day games as a member of the PAC-3. Tough call.
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Maintaining some relevancy as a member of the ACC but having to play night games vs Saturday day games as a member of the PAC-3. Tough call.
Oregon State and Washington State also play plenty of night games. Saturday night, for example.
Go!Bears said:
It bites us on the other end. 7:30 is too late to bring the grandkids to the games, unless you are ok listening to the fourth quarter on the radio. And I am not.
Sadly, TV money makes stadium fans disposable. It will probably never again be as it once was. At least I have all those fond memories of our Rose Bowl games…
For my grandkids, they attend the Cal football games once they are 6 or 7.
Grand Pa's rule: If they can stay up on New Years Eve until midnight, they can attend a Cal football game that starts at 7:30
sycasey said:Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Maintaining some relevancy as a member of the ACC but having to play night games vs Saturday day games as a member of the PAC-3. Tough call.
Oregon State and Washington State also play plenty of night games. Saturday night, for example.
The only value the Pac has is providing late slot content.
Much better for those night games to be on ESPN playing an P4 East Coast team in the ACC getting eventually $40 million than night games agains Utah State on the CW getting a perpetual $7 million.
calumnus said:sycasey said:Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Maintaining some relevancy as a member of the ACC but having to play night games vs Saturday day games as a member of the PAC-3. Tough call.
Oregon State and Washington State also play plenty of night games. Saturday night, for example.
The only value the Pac has is providing late slot content.
Much better for those night games to be on ESPN playing an P4 East Coast team in the ACC getting eventually $40 million than night games agains Utah State on the CW getting a perpetual $7 million.
There will be two West Coast leagues with games to offer on the TV market this offseason: the reconstructed Pac-12 and Mountain West. I suspect ESPN will try to get in with one of them for the late-night inventory. They've been shut out of the MWC for a while.
Sebastabear said:glutton said:
The start times have only been announced for 3 of our home games so far, and one of them is on a Friday, so it was already a given that would be a night game. Our first home game is 3pm, second at 7:30, but we don't know times for the other yet. I am not fond of the night games, especially as we get into late October and November, so I hope we get some day games for the ones where start times haven't been announced yet.
Yes. Not to get all "facty" or anything, but there are exactly two announced 7:30 home games so far. And as noted, one of them is on a Friday night so it has to be a night game by definition. Other scheduled 7:30 games Cal is playing are away and have absolutely nothing to do with season tickets. So two announced 7:30 games and the OP's friend is just out? Really?
Also, as BG noted, it is absurd to think Cal could have changed this scheduling if it had only "fought harder." Has no one been paying attention here? FOX isn't paying the B1G $1bn annually for the right to broadcast games when the teams feel like playing. Nor is ESPN, etc. That boat sailed 20 years ago. TV networks are paying for the right to broadcast games when they want and how they want. Cal might as well complain to the clouds about the rain. It would have an equal effect (well, except the clouds wouldn't get pissed off by our complaints and kick us out during the next round of realignment, which is a very real possibility from the TV networks if we become an obnoxious thorn in their side).
Lastly, I am continually baffled by fans who equate their personal preferences with some immutable law of physics. This is like the nut who kept posting over and over again about how Cal should drop down to the Mountain West conference so we could play UNLV because he would personally like to visit Las Vegas more. I've listened to fans stand up in Cal fan meetings and whine for three years now about how they don't feel "connected to the players" and they don't "philosophically like NIL" and blah, blah, blah. And people say grown men have a hard time expressing their feelings? Give me a break. As far as I can tell, it's all about their feelings. None of them want to spend two seconds talking about how they personally can help the program or get it to a better place, but get them going on all these "unwelcome" changes and watch out. You better clear your schedule for the rest of the day.
Hard truth is their "feelings" have absolutely no bearing on what Cal needs to do to survive and thrive in this modern climate. All they can do is chose to continue to follow and support the program or they can chose to stop being fans. That's it. But what they can't do is change the college football ecosystem and they should stop telling the rest of how they "feel" about it because it's a waste of time.
I have not missed a home football game in multiple decades. I regularly travel to away games. Just got back home at 5 AM yesterday after the OSU game. There will come a time when my health or just the passage of time will make such things impossible. it is what it is. But at that point, I am not going to demand that the world change because I got old(er). I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. I will do this as long as I can and then I will stop and Cal will hopefully go on a long time after I am dust. That's just life.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference. Scheduling is a thing none of us can change.
this might be the single greatest reply i've ever read on this board ever. copy pasta for the next person that complains about 7:30pm start times
also, the thought of ESPN showcasing JKS at 7:30pm almost every Saturday night seems like great exposure for our program this season
nikeykid said:
also, the thought of ESPN showcasing JKS at 7:30pm almost every Saturday night seems like great exposure for our program this season
7:30pm Pacific time is not a 'showcase' timeslot for people in the Eastern time zone, most of whom won't stay up to watch a game starting after 10:30 local time.
glutton said:nikeykid said:
also, the thought of ESPN showcasing JKS at 7:30pm almost every Saturday night seems like great exposure for our program this season
7:30pm Pacific time is not a 'showcase' timeslot for people in the Eastern time zone, most of whom won't stay up to watch a game starting after 10:30 local time.
Again: the ratings record shows that this is not really true. The late ESPN games regularly out-draw the earlier ESPN games for viewers, due to the lessened competition for eyeballs (no games on ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.). People do watch.
Don't get me wrong, they're not typically the highest-rated games of the week. Those are the big matchups on the big broadcast networks. But they do out-draw what the same game would have drawn in an earlier cable time slot.
7:30 is an absurd time even if you don't have kids.
Unfortunately, my almost-4-year-old is super excited for football games for some reason, and so far there is one that I can take him to (next weekend), and that's about it, outside of the Big Game.
That's fine, but I don't see future Cal fans being made by watching my local team on TV after the kids are asleep.
TV money is great, and it sure does make it easy to be casual.
Unfortunately, my almost-4-year-old is super excited for football games for some reason, and so far there is one that I can take him to (next weekend), and that's about it, outside of the Big Game.
That's fine, but I don't see future Cal fans being made by watching my local team on TV after the kids are asleep.
TV money is great, and it sure does make it easy to be casual.
Both Sebastabear and LunchTime have legitimate points. It goes back to how you view your fandom. Do you say "I want Cal to have a great football team, for all the reason Rich Lyons details, even if the logistics right now make it difficult for me to attend," or do you say "If I can't have the logistics the way I want'em, the eff it, I don't care all that much if the program survives or not." We also should remember that the student attendance has generally been better for night games, because the students have all day to either study or party, and can and do still come. Those students are the future alumni we need to buy tickets and make contributions.
And to be honest, the issue for LunchTime and his 4-year-old is far less whether his kid can go to the games now, and what the situation is when he's 18 and hopefully a Cal freshman. What's going to be more fun for him, a BIG home game against Ohio State, or an MWC home game against San Jose State. That's really the long-term outcome we're trying to impact now. I also didn't renew my season tickets, because my 90-year-old Dad didn't want to go to the night games, but I'll probably end up going to most of the games anyway, assuming Wilcox doesn't give me PTSD like he did last season.
And to be honest, the issue for LunchTime and his 4-year-old is far less whether his kid can go to the games now, and what the situation is when he's 18 and hopefully a Cal freshman. What's going to be more fun for him, a BIG home game against Ohio State, or an MWC home game against San Jose State. That's really the long-term outcome we're trying to impact now. I also didn't renew my season tickets, because my 90-year-old Dad didn't want to go to the night games, but I'll probably end up going to most of the games anyway, assuming Wilcox doesn't give me PTSD like he did last season.
LunchTime said:
7:30 is an absurd time even if you don't have kids.
Unfortunately, my almost-4-year-old is super excited for football games for some reason, and so far there is one that I can take him to (next weekend), and that's about it, outside of the Big Game.
That's fine, but I don't see future Cal fans being made by watching my local team on TV after the kids are asleep.
TV money is great, and it sure does make it easy to be casual.
How about taking him to the first half of a game? Depending on your drive home, it could still make for a very late night for a 4 year-old, but even if he only sees half a game, he'd still have a great time! Irked about paying full price for only half a game? Look for tickets a few days before on TickPick, SeatGeek, etc. For low-attendance games, the Cal ATO sells thru one of them (I don't recall which) at below list price.
I suspect we'll get one or two more day games at home like we did last season, so there should be more opportunities to bring kids.
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