Yeah, that is the problem. You have no idea.

You read every word Tedford and Sandy say looking for any possible slight you can find and IMO everything you "find" is 1000000% imagined on your part. Everything you say about everything they say indicates that you want them to get down on their knees and shout to the heavens how lucky they are that anyone would consider being a fan. In other words, you just want ass kissing.

BoaltBear09;552204 said:

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Even then, according to the piece, TCU was an option. There's a paragraph describing the downside to scheduling TCU. The article then, literally, says, "Long story short, this is how Cal ends up scheduling Presbyterian." There's our "evidence."

Considering the evidence, I would have taken TCU.

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TCU was not an option, because Sept. 17 had to be a home game for Cal in order to meet the NCAA requirement of 5 home games, and TCU wasn't willing to do that.

ducky23;552256 said:

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I agree with DO that rather than guilting fans into coming to the game, do something more productive; like offering discounted seats, giving free parking passes to season tickets holders, something that demonstrates some sort of apology to the fanbase for their screw-up.

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I do agree that they could have done something like this to entice more fans, that's a fair criticism.

I don't agree with criticisms of the scheduling (seriously, we were in an impossible situation this year) or the suggestion that Sandy and JT are outright blaming the fans. They are trying to get fans to show up, but their comments are not overly negative.

Cal_Fan2;552248 said:

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....but we needed another home game...TCU would not have been a home game....

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Good point . . . but Fresno isn't a home game either, right? Otherwise it would be included in my season ticket package

In any event I'm glad there are people sticking up for Sandy - I'm not going to argue with the SAHPC or the Memorial renovation. Very happy about those and our non-conference schedule going forward. Just tough to hear my UW brother rip on Cal's non-conference schedule for yet another year.

BoaltBear09;552274 said:

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Good point . . . but Fresno isn't a home game either, right? Otherwise it would be included in my season ticket package

.

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All of which makes it seem like an exhibition game which is why I think many of us are indifferent.

BoaltBear09;552274 said:

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Good point . . . but Fresno isn't a home game either, right? Otherwise it would be included in my season ticket package

In any event I'm glad there are people sticking up for Sandy - I'm not going to argue with the SAHPC or the Memorial renovation. Very happy about those and our non-conference schedule going forward. Just tough to hear my UW brother rip on Cal's non-conference schedule for yet another year.

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I got ya...but we didn't want Fresno to be a home game because they wanted a return game....I know you don't want to go down to Fresno again...:p Not sure why your UW brother is ragging on ya. We usually always have an "A" team, "B" team and then usually "C" team....

Looking at UW's schedule in from 2000 they have played

Idaho 5 times, San Jose State, Fresno St. 2 times, Wyoming, Air Force, Syracuse, and San Diego St. Not sure what he is complaining about

A few comments. I'm not sure why someone who has missed only 4 games in 60 years would find the Presbyterian game so loathsome. Really? That much worse than UOP (in the year before they gave up football)? Sacramento State? UC Davis?

You are right that the delays in scheduling have brought "ugly" results, but these are not anyone's fault (unless you want to blame Sandy for the unspeakable sin of renovating CMS). I have had many conversations with her during the who process and I know how difficult it has been to nail down a schedule. What do you actually think another AD's response to: "we want to schedule a home game with you somewhere and on some date. Can you please keep the month of September open until we can get back to you? Oh by the way, your ticket allotment will either be 1000, 1500 or 5000 depending on where we play. We'll get back to you on that, too?"

As for ticket prices, I agree they are out of line and perhaps we could have negotiated better, but we had to relinquish control in order for the game to be "neutral site," which was a requirement as far as FSU was concerned.

Perhaps you all would rather we played a 10 game season...

tydog;551956 said:

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I think this says more about cal fans in general than JT or Sandi. Not being able to get more than 10k fans to your first game of the year, when you are technically the home team, is down right embarrassing. Way to support the squad cal fans.

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Least we forget, 60k Cal fans showed up for Portland State, and 59k Cal fans showed for Sac State. Poor Fresno State ticket sales has more to do with high ticket prices (in a down economy), less accessible location (Candlestick instead of Coliseum), and the general sense Cal front office has become a cold, calculating business machine out to vampire every last dime from loyal Cal fans.

Cal_Fan2;552286 said:

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I got ya...but we didn't want Fresno to be a home game because they wanted a return game....I know you don't want to go down to Fresno again...:p Not sure why your UW brother is ragging on ya. We usually always have an "A" team, "B" team and then usually "C" team....

Looking at UW's schedule in from 2000 they have played

Idaho 5 times, San Jose State, Fresno St. 2 times, Wyoming, Air Force, Syracuse, and San Diego St. Not sure what he is complaining about

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Agree that wash has no room here, but this a b c thing isn't really a valid argument, to me. How many A opponents have we really had? Tenn, Michigan St., K st.? Maybe stretch for Maryland and Minnesota? There have been a few A's, some B's, a fair amount of C's, and WAY too many D.s and F's.

I have read the article you have linked. Where was the forethought from Sandy? The fact that we would be out of Memorial for this year wasn't decided 6 months ago. I agree she was in a tough spot, after she put herself there.

calgo430;552207 said:

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i refuse to go to the fsu game. yes, i'm a passionate cal fan but the price, the opponent, the venue, will keep me at home. since 1950 i have missed maybe 4 home games but the delays in scheduling for this season have brought ugly results. i will also not attend the presbyterian "game" and will give my tickets away. thanks sandy.

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Hey, at least toss in some compliments about the Athletic Performance Center and the Memorial renovations. In the long run, those are the things that will really make a difference for generations to come from this AD. And most people want to go to the games simply to support our team. The players who put in the endless hours for our enjoyment deserve some fans in the stands, no matter what the circumstances or how we might feel about various coaches or administrators.

Cal_Fan2;552286 said:

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I got ya...but we didn't want Fresno to be a home game because they wanted a return game....I know you don't want to go down to Fresno again...:p Not sure why your UW brother is ragging on ya. We usually always have an "A" team, "B" team and then usually "C" team....

Looking at UW's schedule in from 2000 they have played

Idaho 5 times, San Jose State, Fresno St. 2 times, Wyoming, Air Force, Syracuse, and San Diego St. Not sure what he is complaining about

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Those are good stats to throw back at him. I think he'll use the Presbyterian game as fodder for a few years to come.

I think I've kicked this dead horse enough. I'll be at the games. Go Bears!

"Ahhh, now the aria!"

"You know, chitownbear, I just can't picture you at the opera, especially in seats near where I sit."

I didn't say it said anything about Cal fans complaints. I said it demonstrated a faith that Cal fans would set aside their complaints when made to understand the situation.

drunkoski;552269 said:

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i want culpability, not ass kissing. tedford (and apparently sandy) see the fans as a neccasary evil. his negative quotes about the fans outnumber the postive ones 3 to 1 at least. for the life of me i can't understand how you don't think those quotes are slights on the fans. i very much respect your opinion and i admit i've gone out on some limbs at times, but i don't get your argument here.

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Now you're overstating things. I agree that Tedford was trying to guilt the fans and the negativity of the "I would at least..." quote about the problem that is the doing of Sandy, not the fans. But there's no evidence for your 3 to 1 opinion. If anything, it's the other way around, Tedford compliments our fans frequently.

What Tedford has accomplished at Cal despite woefully inadequate facilities and a lame ATO/marketing arm has truly been remarkable.

That's fine; just call yourself a fan of opera, not California Golden Bear football. No true Cal fan would pass up a chance to see the Golden Bears play their first game of the season when it's being played so close to Berkeley. Now, if you're currently unemployed and find $45 plus parking too much of a stretch, I'll give you a pass.

Et tu, Brute?

j/k

I one hundred percent agree with your second paragraph as I essentially said in another post. They clearly didn't realize what a dog this game was to Cal fans and how tough it was going to be to sell it. Had they seen it coming, and I agree it should have been obvious, they could have done a lot of things to prevent this situation.

I part ways with you on the quotes, especially the Tedford quotes, especially when you consider its an edited quote. He said that the fans are a large part of the team's success. From the article its hard to tell how THAT statement was related in context to the "I would hope" statement. I would also point out that Tedford is not responsible for the game or the poor marketing. Regardless of marketing screw ups, any coach would hope that their fans suck it up and come to the game.

But I would also say that maybe both sides here want their cake and eat it too. Drunk is always saying how Tedford doesn't get nearly the criticism that fans throw at their coaches elsewhere like the SEC. Maybe so. But coaches in the SEC don't have to beg their fans to go to games, no matter what the situation. They fill their stadiums without question. When they want to express their displeasure, they do so loudly and forcefully (and effectively in a lot of cases). But they don't do it, as some Cal fans suggest, by withholding ticket dollars and fan support. They scream for their team and then if necessary scream at their coach. I'd suggest that maybe Tedford is looking for the fan support without the potential criticism that comes with it. But it also seems like drunk wants Cal fans to be as tough on Tedford without acknowledging that our fans don't necessarily hold up their end of the bargain like the SEC fans do.

What is with all the bitchin'? The Fresno St. game at Candlestick is just one game; this is a weird year with the stadium upgrade going on; I can handle some inconveniences and less than perfect circumstances for one year. This team is in transition and they can use some love from Cal supporters. I know there are lots of you out there who don't yet have tickets; including many students. Get off the couch, get some tickets and support our team which is on the rise. GO BEARS!

huh?....."our team which is on the rise"....whoa, you must have seen the practices.....tell us more......senor!

chitownbear;552134 said:

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Are you insane? Did it ever occur to you that $90, plus transportation/parking and concessions, is a hell of a lot more than many people can afford to see an unappealing game not played in Berkeley? I could buy a good ticket to the opera for that, and it would be money far better spent.

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There were also tickets priced at $65, which nobody seems to mention. They're not just end zones seats, I got upper deck on the 30 yard line.

drunkoski;552136 said:

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It's sandy's job to negotiate with said 3rd party. I don't hear an admission from her that the prices were too high. She puts the blame on us. The esp pricing is proof positive she think cal fans are a unlimited source of revenue and will pay anything no matter what the product on the field. If she really had the pulse of the fans sh should have warned the promoters this would be a problem. Anyone else saw this coming a mile a way.

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Gotta agree with DO on this one.

SB's handling of the rugby and baseball fiasco should tell you all you need to know about her ability to gauge the pulse of the fan/donor base. Anyone with a mind for the business side of athletics could see this was going to be a terrible sell.

That said, i fullly expect the AD to go to bat for the program and urge fans to buy tickets. JT on the other hand should be worrying about other things, especially considering the crappy product he's put out there recently.

By understand the situation, I mean understand that Fresno is outselling us and is going to turn that stadium into their home field. I'm not talking about a long explanation as to why we scheduled the game, how we ended up with the third party promoter and $90 tickets, etc. Self flagellation does not sell tickets. It might have made some people feel a little better but it was not going to sell tickets. I does seem like some people who did not realize how dire the situation is have responded.

Drunk, we are mostly in agreement except for the quotes (and especially Tedford's). The AD obviously just treated this like an additional home game. This was easy to see coming from the moment it was scheduled. Fresno fans get a game within driving distance, against a BCS conference opponent, in a stadium they have no negative feelings about (well not now, we'll see what they think on Sept 4.) in a city that makes a nice weekend destination. Cal fans get a pseudo-home game that is not included in their season ticket package, in an unpleasant environment, against a non-inspiring opponent whose fan base was last seen throwing bottles at them and threatening to rape their women and children. I get that they probably got stuck scheduling this game, but they obviously didn't realize just how bad it was. If it wasn't on the season ticket package, it was going to be a massive uphill climb.

It never should have come to the point of sending out that email. Or if it did get to that point, it should have gotten there after the AD tried everything they could and still got no response. But its at this point. I don't know what else people think they should say to sell tickets. "I effed up but please by tickets out of charity in spite of me"? I see no other way to do this thing AT THIS POINT then to say "Fresno is outselling us. We need your support."

If Sandy is truly sitting in her office thinking "geez. we did everything right but our crappy fans won't buy tickets." her incompetence will surface in plenty of ways.

drunkoski;552284 said:

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did they even offer to sell you a fresno ticket when you bought your season tickets? hell a simple "check this box for fresno tickets" might have sold some tickets.

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Agreed, I think they would have sold a lot more tickets this way. I did buy Fresno tix, but was annoyed that it was a separate transaction with more processing fees/services charges.

I think the thing is not the bitching, but that people are bitching about the wrong thing. We may end up looking like idiots in this game because the AD didn't understand the fanbase. They obviously thought Cal fans would treat this like another home game and just buy tickets out of habit. Excuse me, but have you met us? We can wish we had a fanbase that was like a Big 10 school, but we don't. If we end up embarassed here, it IS the AD's fault. To say otherwise would be like a tailor saying "its not my fault the suit doesn't fit, it's your fault you are 4 feet tall."

drunkoski;552284 said:

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did they even offer to sell you a fresno ticket when you bought your season tickets? hell a simple "check this box for fresno tickets" might have sold some tickets.

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We have negotiated something similar when we did the pete newell classic (another "outside" promoted event) when in fact, without our season ticket base, the event wouldn't have survived the first year. (I think the first season it was part of the season ticket package, and years later it became a mailing that was included in the season ticket mailer).

Maybe SB was thinking she was "protecting" our season holders from automatically buying an "outside" game? Not sure, but the apparent surprise on the AD's side of the low number of cal tickets sold is alarming.

It's a collossal screw-up. Sandy is good in certain areas but if Cal wants to be a player in college football the ATO needs to be completely revamped and "home" games Candlestick cannot be against teams like Fresno st. which have zero value for Cal. In fact Fresno St. might be one of worst possible choices because they play in an inferior conference Cal isn't going to play an away game and they're not a marquee mid major in the snese that they play in a big market or have cache.

The problem is that Sandy makes the assumptions that people will just come to Cal football when in fact Cal football competes with the Giants, A's, Warriors, 49ers, Raiders, and SJ sharks not to mention all the stuff going on in the Bay Area.

Marketing needs to be vastly improved. How is it that Stanford has an association with KNBR and Cal does not?

Cal needs to get people in the stands and they need to show sellouts period. I don't care if they have to give away 5,000 tickets a game they need to create the concept that a Cal game is scarce commodity and that going to a game is great experience.

Why not organize a street fair once a year in Berkeley on the day of a Cal game with the intent of generating revenue for local business people.

The key is getting the city involved and getting people excited about Cal football and the atmosphere.

Hell why not work out something with the Greek Theatre and have Cal day game and have the high priced donor tickets gain entry into a concert at the Greek later that night.

Or even have big events on the Cal campus on Saturday morning. Granted I'm not there every weekend but it seems like Cal needs events planned for gamedays to appeal to the casual fan. Have EA sports tent, have small model of the new SAPHC locker rooms for fans to walk around, have Oski taking pictures with the kids at a booth. Have a TV tent with other college games on and sell beer. Have Cal football alumni signing days. Have a mechandise tent, have a tent for face painting for little girls etc. Have a play area for kids.

Assuming its not a violation have an Oski bobblehead day or a Jeff Tedford bobblehead day, Tosh Lupoi bobblehead etc.

This is where Cal fails imo. Cal doesn't have a market where everyone just closes up and goes to the game because there's too much going on in the Bay Area. Cal needs to differientiate itself from other potential competitors.

OaktownBear;552378 said:

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whose fan base was last seen throwing bottles at them and threatening to rape their women and children.

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THIS is what really irks me about this whole thing. I know for a fact that several fans/season ticket holders/high-end donors have told Sandy point blank that they will not tolerate another game with Fresno State after what happened during our last visit to Fresno.

So on top of all of Sandy's other blunders with this game, the game also happens to be against the one team that many Cal fans absolutely DO NOT want to play under any circumstances. Talk about having the pulse of the fanbase.

I think that if we scheduled a team more like SD State or whoever we would have at least a little more interest in going to this game. But who wants to put up with a crappy venue with crappy drunk ass fans swarming the place. For the casual fan, its much easier to just watch the game on TV. With that said, the FedEx guy just walked into my office with my tickets...however I am not the casual fan that Sandy should have been worrying about.

If there are any "bad" incidents that occur involving Fresno State fans, you better believe that Sandy is going to be feeling it from the donors.

Let's say for the sake of argument that this was a negative comment on the fans. You always talk about what the fans would say about Tedford if he was in the SEC. What would an SEC coach say to the fans if they were struggling to sell 10K seats to a neutral site game 20 miles away from campus? I have a feeling it would be slightly stronger than "you would hope that your fans would at least match the support of the other team". I'm pretty sure you'd get something more along the lines of "I'm embarassed I even have to do this, but I'd never thought I'd see the day when the likes of Fresno stinking State was going to outdraw our fans in our backyard. I don't care what the reason is. Quit the petty squabbling and come out and support this team." And the fans would probably agree with him.

I mean "you would hope that your fans would at least match the support of the other team". Wow. How will I ever recover from such a verbal ass kicking?

drunkoski;551941 said:

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Read tedfords quote in the contra costa times and draw your own conclusion. Bet it will be the first thing out of his mouth if we lose too.

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With all the $ they are making between them they should buy the rest of our allotment and give the tickets to charity. tickets should have been priced at 25-60

alarsuel;552302 said:

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and WAY too many D.s and F's.

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Please explain to me how Cal plays more "D" and "F" opponents than any other BCS-conference school. Have you seen an SEC school's schedule lately?

Who wins, or cares to win, this argument?? It's Fing game week!! Put down your keyboards and put on on your game faces!! "Stick" a :bear: right up Fresno State College @sses starting today!! :gobears:

xultaif;552261 said:

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I can't believe I'm doing, but I'm agreeing with DO on this...

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WOW. This hurricane back East must be bigger than I thought, because I am pretty sure this is a sign of Armageddon . . .

:p

drunkoski;552441 said:

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...but it can be a bit problematic when people talk about a 7-5 record as something decent despite playing a joke nc schedule.

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and we used to do better than 7-5 on a regular basis before Tedford got here?

Golden One;552349 said:

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That's fine; just call yourself a fan of opera, not California Golden Bear football. No true Cal fan would pass up a chance to see the Golden Bears play their first game of the season when it's being played so close to Berkeley. Now, if you're currently unemployed and find $45 plus parking too much of a stretch, I'll give you a pass.

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be a fan...like the conservatives being the only patriots, the birthers being the only true Americans. What a crock. What hubris, what arrogance, what stupidity.

goldenblue_Cal;552471 said:

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be a fan...like the conservatives being the only patriots, the birthers being the only true Americans. What a crock. What hubris, what arrogance, what stupidity.

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I think when someone says they would rather go to the opera than attend a CAL game, it's legitimate to question their CAL fan credentials.

You may not want to knee jerk react to what you perceive as someone else's knee jerk action. That would be a crock. Arrogant. And pretty stupid.

drunkoski;552478 said:

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we weren't paying our head coach $3 mil a year before tedford got here either. wake up and smell 2011.

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We pay our coach less than either USC or Oregon, and those are the only two P-10 teams to win more than 72 games since Tedford has been here.