Oregon Offense - Gimmicky

18,570 Views | 135 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by 93BearInOregon
Our Domicile
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Canard;582314 said:

But no, I have been hearing loud and clearly here that last year was all about Clancy Pendergast's genius defensive stylings having "solved," our offense, not some ineffable home field advantage for Cal.

A defensive game plan by an inestimable genius should work everywhere, even in Reno. . .right?



No. Considering that CFB is a game of emotions at times, defensive gameplans can get derailed in very hostile environments.

Plus, Nevada has homefield advantage too. Ask Boise State.
SRBear
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you mean almost the worst loss in the Carroll era, or did you forget the "What's your deal" game? 55-21 furd.
LANYBear
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KoreAmBear;582300 said:

The problem this year is that we don't have a strong front 7. Well we have a strong front 5 and then our two OLBs are talented but inexperienced and prone to mistakes, taking bad angles, and whiffing on tackles.


this. we may (arguably) have more raw talent than last year, but we are lacking the discipline and execution necessary to contain oregon's offense.

i think it'll be a minor miracle if we stay within 2 TD's by halftime and i wouldn't be shocked if it turned out like the usc game last year. :headbang
Big C
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calftball;582043 said:

I am sure I'll get hammered for this BUT.......... Oregon's offense is about to be exposed for the inflated, circus act, trickery based scheme that it is. Someone is going to figure out how to pull the plug on this nonsense. Yes they have the talent to consistantly pull it off up till now but I can't help feeling that once it is figured out how to defend, The Ducks will be cooked.
Who better to rise up and turn the tide then our Bears?
Comments other than I'm an idiot?


With the possible exception of some of the aspects of the hurry-up (as accused on this board in a different thread), I firmly believe that any "trickery" is fair game.

"Gimmicks" (again, one possible exception might be the A11 offense) are just innovations with a negative spin.

If Oregon's offense is a "circus act" and they run up 50 on us, maybe we ought to hire Barnum & Baily as our next Co-Offensive Coordinators.
Our Domicile
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diego;582319 said:

except that they did. The Ducks won two of the last three matchups vs Pete including a 47-20 drubbing on Halloween 2009 which was the worst loss in the Carroll era.

http://www.aolnews.com/2009/11/01/oregon-treats-usc-to-halloween-trick/




Except for 2010, it's been homefield = win for either team. And 2010 was not a Pete Carroll coached team.

2009 was a 4-loss USC team, arguably the worst of the PC Era.

But in 2009, USC beat Ohio State....who found a way to beat you guys.

If you guys had the master plan against great defenses, it sure didn't help you against Ohio State in 2009 in the Rose Bowl. You got dominated for the most part.
diego
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SRBear;582322 said:

you mean almost the worst loss in the Carroll era, or did you forget the "What's your deal" game? 55-21 furd.


my bad, I was quoting the article I linked. The Stanford game happened afterwords.
diego
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Our Domicile;582333 said:

If you guys had the master plan against great defenses, it sure didn't help you against Ohio State in 2009 in the Rose Bowl. You got dominated for the most part.


has someone claimed that? I boil the Rose Bowl loss down to Masoli having one of his worst games while Pryor had his best ever.
ppilot
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Canard;582360 said:

2007's USC squad was a prime Pete Carroll coached defense.

What we Ducks fans have been saying all along is that there is no master plan. Either we out execute the opposition or we lose.

Of the five losses we've sustained since Kelly became head coach:

The first was against that year's eventual Fiesta Bowl winner on the road.
The second was to Toby Gerhardt and Andrew Luck on the road.
The third was to the Rose Bowl winning OSU Buckeyes at a neutral venue.
The fourth was to the 2010 National Champions at a neutral venue.
The fifth was to a likely BCS bound LSU squad at a neutral venue.

I'd say the worst loss was to Stanford, since their home field advantage is practically non-existent.

I'd have loved to have won the RB or the NC, but I like that I can also still count off these past two years' worth of losses with just one hand.


Can we dispense with the thought that the LSU game was at a "neutral" venue? From all accounts it was about 80-20 LSU fans and the Tigers played at Jerryworld for their bowl game.
freshfunk
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Just want to remind our Oregon guests here that this is a Cal football forum so coming across hyperbole biased for Cal and against Oregon is to be expected.

I don't know if anyone called Pendergast's defense as "genius" considering our performance against Nevada and $C. But, if they did, who gives a flying f*ck. What matters is the here and now.
Our Domicile
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Canard;582360 said:



...What we Ducks fans have been saying all along is that there is no master plan. [COLOR="Blue"]Either we out execute the opposition or we lose.[/COLOR]




You can "execute" until the cows come home, but if the front-7 of the other team is owning you guys, throw your execution out the window.

You're simply being owned up front and no amount of execution can fix that.

All your losses in the Kelly Era have been due to being punched in the mouth by the opposing defense....but you Duckies have such big egos nowadays you actually think it was a lack of execution on YOUR part because you never want to give the other team credit. LOL!
BellottiBold
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bearster;582268 said:

Speaking of misinformation... the game was played on a neutral field NOT in Death Valley, and from what I saw LSU's run game worn down the Oregon D, to the point where they were nearly running at will. LSU's D was suffocating as they only surrendered two meaningful touchdowns in the entire game. The last touchdown Oregon scored was when the game was well in hand. So IMO Oregon was dominated. Minus the last second touchdown Oregon got manhandled physically 40-20.


That was *not* a neutral field. It wasn't Death Valley, no, but it was an upwards of 85% LSU crowd, and from what was said after the game it was noticeable on the field. LSU was able to wear Oregon's D down because Oregon couldn't sustain offensive drives - in large part due to 4 costly turnovers. In spite of getting "manhandled physically" Oregon managed a decent average on the ground running the ball, and didn't surrender any sacks. Take the turnovers out of the game, and things get interesting in a hurry.
GB54
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BellottiBold;582396 said:

Take the turnovers out of the game, and things get interesting in a hurry.


I wanted to quote this in case you went back and deleted it after you finished your drinks in the bar.
Cal89
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bearster;582268 said:

Speaking of misinformation... the game was played on a neutral field NOT in Death Valley, and from what I saw LSU's run game worn down the Oregon D, to the point where they were nearly running at will. LSU's D was suffocating as they only surrendered two meaningful touchdowns in the entire game. The last touchdown Oregon scored was when the game was well in hand. So IMO Oregon was dominated. Minus the last second touchdown Oregon got manhandled physically 40-20.


My bad, I forgot given what was seemingly a very pro LSU crowd. A simple mistake, as I think anyone here would admit. I will fess-up to a boo boo though. You will never see making conclusive statements such as "always", "none", "never" and the like unless I've done my research and that is indeed the case.

A statement was made that Oregon played from behind, and that was clearly wrong. And an average starting field approaching the 30 yard line is certainly not bad, but characterized as such...

And with the above, most recent statement, about LSU nearly running at will and wearing-down the Oregon D is not what I remember, and not what the stats reveal either. LSU ran for an average of 3.6 yds a carry. Nothing to write home about. They ran at will does not mean they ran well or were unstoppable. They ran a lot, probably hoping to keep the ball away from the Ducks. 3.6 yards a carry does not indicate such. Oregon had a higher conversion rate of 3rd downs too...

One can't expect to win playing the likes of LSU by spotting them 3 turnovers and a 7 penalty delta. Not even the Ducks...

That all said, after what I saw last year, and this year, from both teams, I have more than just some hope of us winning. Between UW and Colorado, this team is battle-tested, which I like.

To get more on-topic, the only thing I find gimmicky about the Duck O is that they often run to the line as if it's a hurry-up, but it is often not. This leaves the defense with little to no opportunity to sub.
pappysghost
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KoreAmBear;582307 said:

Oh, and Ed Dickson just called. He says he's in the end zone again.


That just busted me up.

:rollinglaugh:

Cal -6 lost by 46 something like that.
Unit2Sucks
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Canard;582599 said:

Actually arrogance is claiming that Cal's defense was "dominant" in last year's contest despite them losing the game when it mattered.


Okay but our defense scored as many touchdowns as your offense. How often does that happen? We lost the game primarily because our QB managed only 69 yards on 28 pass attempts.
Handcuffed
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Our Domicile;582304 said:

Today's Oregon gets LSUed by the old PC USC teams. It has nothing to do with overpursuit. USC of yesteryear dominates and penetrates your O-line, rendering that bread-and-butter Dive Play obsolete.....just like LSU did. USC simply had SEC talent back in the day.

Options and Tempo won't work if your O-line is getting blown up.


No offense works if your O-line is getting blown up.
Cal89
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Handcuffed;582609 said:

No offense works if your O-line is getting blown up.


Our offense did not work in that game, and games after it too. It was us. Our ineptitude in the passing game, to be more precise... I don't recall a less productive pass attack in the Tedford era as what we endured the last half or so of 2010.

Statically, in a few, important categories, our D did the best against the Ducks than anyone else last year...
brj1
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Oregon's results will be wiped out and they will get nailed. Seriously, what Chip Kelly has achieved takes a backseat to how he got Oregon to the next level. The end definitely does not justify the means, it's just another renegade program cutting corners, thinking that wealth puts them above the law of the land. They've done nothing legitimate, and nobody cares. They're losers


Our Domicile
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Unit2Sucks;582607 said:

Okay but our defense scored as many touchdowns as your offense. How often does that happen?...



*high five*
pjlbear
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calftball;582043 said:

I am sure I'll get hammered for this BUT.......... Oregon's offense is about to be exposed for the inflated, circus act, trickery based scheme that it is. Someone is going to figure out how to pull the plug on this nonsense. Yes they have the talent to consistantly pull it off up till now but I can't help feeling that once it is figured out how to defend, The Ducks will be cooked.
Who better to rise up and turn the tide then our Bears?
Comments other than I'm an idiot?


Gimmeky, When everyone ran the single wing then the T formation was gimmeky. When everyone ran the T formation then the wishbone/triple option was gimmeky. When everyone ran the wishbone/triple option then the pro set was gimmeky (maybe not). And now the spread/zone read is gimmeky. I could give a rat's ass about the gimmeky comment as long as the offense is effective.

We don't run a Gimmeky Offense and our results are not as good as Oregon's! If we had played better than Oregon the last several years then we could complain. Do I think that many Oregon fans are dirt bags, absolutely YES! Do I think that Chip Kelley is a jerk, absolutely YES! Do I think his teams have been in better shape than our Bears? Unfortunately yes.

Forget about his cheating ( not allowing the opposing team to get their defenders on the field, and cheap shots), his offense is very effective - he puts the opposing defense in positions where they have to make a choice and if they choose incorrectly it goes for a big gain. Not nearly the case with our offense. Will defenses catch up with Oregon, my take is somewhat. Oregon has a good scheme and are getting better ball players. We have a way to go but we are on a better track than the last couple of years.

GO BEARS!
freshfunk
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Canard;582599 said:

Actually arrogance is claiming that Cal's defense was "dominant" in last year's contest despite them losing the game when it mattered.


:cry::cry::cry:
diego
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pjlbear;582671 said:

Forget about his cheating ( not allowing the opposing team to get their defenders on the field, and cheap shots)...


I'd be interested in you expanding on both of these points. Yeah their hurry up O doesn't allow the D to sub players, but they don't either. Thats not cheating thats game on.

Cheap shots? I've watched a lot of Duck football and haven't seen an inordinate amount of those sorts of plays (late hits, head hunting) at all. Seriously, after last years game I'd think Cal fans would be the last group to complain about cheating.
goldenjax
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diego;582699 said:

I'd be interested in you expanding on both of these points. Yeah their hurry up O doesn't allow the D to sub players, but they don't either. Thats not cheating thats game on.

Cheap shots? I've watched a lot of Duck football and haven't seen an inordinate amount of those sorts of plays (late hits, head hunting) at all. Seriously, after last years game I'd think Cal fans would be the last group to complain about cheating.


That pick was as dirty as gets, that was a designed play, Tuinei ran across the field the whole time looking to set the pic. If thats not a cheapshot/dirty play i don't know what is, care to elaborate diego?
CalBear68
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I just love these cheating and arrogance lectures from Oregon fans (and, to be clear, I'm not talking about regular visitor, BB).
diego
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goldenjax;582703 said:

That pick was as dirty as gets, that was a designed play, Tuinei ran across the field the whole time looking to set the pic. If thats not a cheapshot/dirty play i don't know what is, care to elaborate diego?


Tuinei missed the rest of that game and the next two following that play due to a shoulder injury he incurred. I feel it's a real stretch to claim a rail thin receiver is the guy Kelly is sending out as an enforcer, but okay you've got a single example of a questionable play. My point was that they've hardly shown themselves to be a headhunting/cheap shot bunch. Every team runs picks, I really doubt Tuinei was looking for that sort of contact.

But since you went there, what do you think will be greater? The number of injuries Cal fakes or the number of assistant coaches Tedford throws under the bus (alla Tosh) postgame? Which cheating highlights do you think ESPN will be focused on before and during their national broadcast? It seems like a classic glass houses situation to me.
pjlbear
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Diego,
As I understand it, NCAA rules are that the d needs to have time to make subtitutions. At the Uof O game the officials were running to place the ball for the next play because Chip was yelling at them to do so. Gamesmanship. After our game the Pac 10 officials changed their behavior to allow the d to make substitutions. Perhaps yo don't remember that when the ball was on the UofO side of the field at the last few sceonds they woudl substitute wr's not allowing Cal to make adjustments. Again gamesmanship but not allowed after our game.

As far as the hit by Tunenie, right behind the umpire he lowered his head and hit our db (illegal pick play) right in the chest . One of the dirtiest plays I have ever seen and don't even try to explain why that was not a cheap shot. It was done on purpose.
pjlbear
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diego;582712 said:

Tuinei missed the rest of that game and the next two following that play due to a shoulder injury he incurred. I feel it's a real stretch to claim a rail thin receiver is the guy Kelly is sending out as an enforcer, but okay you've got a single example of a questionable play. My point was that they've hardly shown themselves to be a headhunting/cheap shot bunch. Every team runs picks, I really doubt Tuinei was looking for that sort of contact.

But since you went there, what do you think will be greater? The number of injuries Cal fakes or the number of assistant coaches Tedford throws under the bus (alla Tosh) postgame? Which cheating highlights do you think ESPN will be focused on before and during their national broadcast? It seems like a classic glass houses situation to me.


No doubt about it that Tipoti was a bad actor. BFD! FYI As#Hole, Tedford did not throw Tosh under the bus. There is a whole of of stuff behind the scene that relates to JT's comments. A little acting on our part (gamesmanship) does not come even close to Uof O's gamesmanship.

Let's be real clear: Chip Kelley is one clever coach and has been very successful at Uof O. But... he is in no way close to being as pure as the Fuc8ing snow! I can't wait to hear your justifications for the recruiting violations!
pjlbear
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diego;582712 said:

Tuinei missed the rest of that game and the next two following that play due to a shoulder injury he incurred. I feel it's a real stretch to claim a rail thin receiver is the guy Kelly is sending out as an enforcer, but okay you've got a single example of a questionable play. My point was that they've hardly shown themselves to be a headhunting/cheap shot bunch. Every team runs picks, I really doubt Tuinei was looking for that sort of contact.

But since you went there, what do you think will be greater? The number of injuries Cal fakes or the number of assistant coaches Tedford throws under the bus (alla Tosh) postgame? Which cheating highlights do you think ESPN will be focused on before and during their national broadcast? It seems like a classic glass houses situation to me.


Let's be REALLY clear, that was not a questionable play. It was a CLEARLY CHEAPSHOT and dangerous. So, your guy hurt his shoulder delivering a cheap shot. BOO HOO!

You doubt that Tuieni was looking for that sort of contact. PLEASE. Look at the replay. If you think that was an accident then you are dumber than a box of rocks! Tunieni didn't just get in the way of the defender he lowered his shoulder and drilled our db. The anouncers said it was a dirty play!
pjlbear
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Diego,

One more point, you think that our slowing down the game (fake injuries to keep U of O from not allowing us to make substitutions)) equates to a dangerous play that takes one of our guys out of the game. I not only disagree with you but I think you are lacking any integrity whatsoever.
SRBear
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Maehl on his TD:
"Just a great play call by Chip [Kelly], scheming it up coming out of halftime. They were playing man the whole game. It was just a crossing route to try and get a pick and Darron [Thomas] put it on me."

It is part of the Duck playbook.
KoreAmBear
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SRBear;582724 said:

Maehl on his TD:
"Just a great play call by Chip [Kelly], scheming it up coming out of halftime. They were playing man the whole game. It was just a crossing route to try and get a pick and Darron [Thomas] put it on me."

It is part of the Duck playbook.


Well who knows what he means by "pick"? It could mean a crossing pattern with guys in traffic, so let's not get our Ducks all in a bunch. There's some designed "picks" that are mean to divert traffic, then there's the Tunei play.
oskihasahearton
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Canard;582732 said:

You fan base wasn't so whiny when the Bears were a winning team.


Quack, quack...and splat---qua-t-tch-h---spthizz-z---wheezz-z---ug-gh!

:beer:
diego
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pjlbear;582723 said:

Diego,

One more point, you think that our slowing down the game (fake injuries to keep U of O from not allowing us to make substitutions)) equates to a dangerous play that takes one of our guys out of the game. I not only disagree with you but I think you are lacking any integrity whatsoever.


I lack any integrity whatsoever... lol, whatever you say dude.

Since every team runs crossing routes/picks, by your logic every team is cheating. Denying that the Bears do this to is silly. In addition every play in football is dangerous and potentially a players last. I really doubt LT intended to have that sort of head on collision with a DB as he's simply not built for it. Had it been DJ Davis or a TE, I'd be less prone to defending the player on the play but this guy is a stick. To me it looked like Lavasier changed course to avoid the path of Oregon's TE (Paulson?) and then had an oh ****! moment. The goal in that sort of play is to muck things up to allow the crossing receiver an extra half step, not blow up two guys.
goldenjax
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drunkoski;582741 said:

crossing routes and picks are not the same thing.


exactly, big difference from a rub, and a pick.
dupdadee
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sounds like diego has no clue what an illegal pick play is....

could be a bandwagon, blind-homer quackster.....
 
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