stanfurdbites;842572541 said:

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3 of the last 5 and you and your vaunted kershaw/greinke, $220 million payroll have gotten you jack crap.

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That's not true. They have three NL West titles!

:woohoo

sycasey;842572543 said:

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That's not true. They have three NL West titles!

:woohoo

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Well we like Pac-12 titles in basketball, but have not gotten even to week 2 since Tony Gonzalez (that's all gonna change this year but still).

KoreAmBear;842572544 said:

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Well we like Pac-12 titles in basketball, but have not gotten even to week 2 since Tony Gonzalez (that's all gonna change this year but still).

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We celebrated that one because it had been a VERY long time since we'd won the conference.

If we were UCLA we probably wouldn't be so excited about it.

as bad as it is right now, it's light years ahead of where we were w/ Frank McCourt... at least I can see some sort of trajectory and have some optimism every year. now, go out and resign Greinke to a friendly deal, get a 3rd starter, and get some freaking arms in the bullpen. and, no, i don't care what it costs... not my problem!

rathokan;842572553 said:

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as bad as it is right now, it's light years ahead of where we were w/ Frank McCourt...

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Just about anyone would be better than Frank McCourt.

rathokan;842572553 said:

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as bad as it is right now, it's light years ahead of where we were w/ Frank McCourt... at least I can see some sort of trajectory and have some optimism every year. now, go out and resign Greinke to a friendly deal, get a 3rd starter, and get some freaking arms in the bullpen. and, no, i don't care what it costs... not my problem!

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You might re-sign Greinke - but it will not be a friendly deal (this goes for any team).

Cal_Fan2;842572533 said:

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I think some of you guys are missing the big picture. As you get older, it won't matter how long ago, you'll rejoice in the memories regardless. Sure, recency effect will give Giants fans an ego boost, but what if you don't go back for 20 odd years....then you'll know how A's fans feel. But guess what, it will feel like yesterday. I was born in 1957 like many old blues. Grew up in Oakland so became an A's fan immediately in 1967 when A's came to town. Before that, I was a die hard Giants fan in the days when even the players hated each other. I mean, some of you younger guys missed out on Mays, McCovey, Cepeda, Davenport, Alou brothers, Marichal playing against Koufax, Drysadale, Maury Wills, Tommy Davis, Roseboro and Fairly. Back in 1962, I was 5 years old when the S.F. Giants played the New York Yankess. in the World Series. WOW, what a series. All the above mentioned Giants vs Whitey Ford, Ralph Terry, Yogi Berra, Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, Elston Howard et al. The Series went to game 7 after each team traded wins with NY winning the last game 1-0.

No matter who you rooted for, now you look back and simply revel in the memories of great games. When I was a kid, the Giants and Dodgers were pretty even and probably the Dodgers won a few more. In 1972-73-74, me and my twin bro got out of school and went to every A's home World Series game and all the night games too. Guys, it seems like yesterday in a way, and no matter if they ever make it back, I'll bask in the glow of 3 in a row and 1989 when those same Giants went down 4 games in a row during the Earthquake series. Just like you Giants guys are pounding your chest now, and rightfully so after winning 3 in 5 years. Awesome achievement, but just remember, you may go next year or you may not go back in your lifetime. When you are my age, you'll think back to these last few years and feel the memories of your youth like yesterday. I promise.....Dodger fans of my age remember those early years in California, and some of those great teams....so sure, the Giants have the recency effect so of course, the trash talking upper hand. Ya never know when that will change.....but I do know they can take every thing away from me except my memories..(barring Alzheimer's, but then it won't matter), and I still smile thinking about spanking the Big Red Machine, those Miracle Mets and awesome Dodgers.

Ok, the ramblings of an Old Blue, so carry on with the trash talking my boys.....and cherish the moments and memories.

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Very well said, totally agree. You got to the essence of my point. Seeing those things as a kid or youth impacts you greatly, and you remember your whole life.

Now I'll bury the hatchet and say the Bay Area did have some great sports memories. The Raiders, the Niners, the A's...and yes the Giants. Niners and Raiders were HUGE for a long time and I know those Niners and Raiders fans have great memories.

KoreAmBear;842572544 said:

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Well we like Pac-12 titles in basketball, but have not gotten even to week 2 since Tony Gonzalez (that's all gonna change this year but still).

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Worse. More like Tedford's Pac-10 co-championship.

rathokan;842572553 said:

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as bad as it is right now, it's light years ahead of where we were w/ Frank McCourt... at least I can see some sort of trajectory and have some optimism every year. now, go out and resign Greinke to a friendly deal, get a 3rd starter, and get some freaking arms in the bullpen. and, no, i don't care what it costs... not my problem!

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Mattingly has to go. He's soft, lacks fire and/or insight.

LethalFang;842572586 said:

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Worse. More like Tedford's Pac-10 co-championship.

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You do have a shirt, right?

KoreAmBear;842572655 said:

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You do have a shirt, right?

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Not anymore.
I was this close to buying the "Road to the Rose Bowl" t-shirt they were selling in student store in '04, but didn't want to personally jinx it. So that wasn't my fault.

Cueto to Giants done. Just needs to pass physical.

They way he looks passing a physical may not be easy. I can't deny that this will be a huge upgrade for you guys though. The starting staff is looking good.

KoreAmBear;842616766 said:

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They way he looks passing a physical may not be easy. I can't deny that this will be a huge upgrade for you guys though. The starting staff is looking good.

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NL West is loaded next year. Don't sleep on the D-Backs.

tydog;842616767 said:

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NL West is loaded next year. Don't sleep on the D-Backs.

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No one is sleeping on the D-Backs. MLB Network is making sure of that.

Giants rotation is loaded. :woohoo

Wow, he's got a good agent. He can unilaterally decide to get out of his contract after the 2nd year while the Giants are bound by the entire contract.

oski003;842616798 said:

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Wow, he's got a good agent. He can unilaterally decide to get out of his contract after the 2nd year while the Giants are bound by the entire contract.

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It makes sense from the Giants' perspective, too. If Cueto pitches well, he will be 31 and looking for one last huge contract. Someone will give it to him (another 6 year deal for more annual dollars). The Giants, meanwhile, would get the last two years of his prime, or certainly what you would expect to be the best, given history, and they could then decide if they want to try to re-sign him again (my guess would be no, given the age and the expected asking price/asking length of deal). Then they avoid paying an aging pitcher big money and let somebody else do it.

If he doesn't pitch well, the Giants are likely forced to keep him on the following 4 years. But that's true of every contract. I like the potential of 2 years of Good Cueto and then him going elsewhere as he declines. Makes sense.

grandmastapoop;842616808 said:

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It makes sense from the Giants' perspective, too. If Cueto pitches well, he will be 31 and looking for one last huge contract. Someone will give it to him (another 6 year deal for more annual dollars). The Giants, meanwhile, would get the last two years of his prime, or certainly what you would expect to be the best, given history, and they could then decide if they want to try to re-sign him again (my guess would be no, given the age and the expected asking price/asking length of deal). Then they avoid paying an aging pitcher big money and let somebody else do it.

If he doesn't pitch well, the Giants are likely forced to keep him on the following 4 years. But that's true of every contract. I like the potential of 2 years of Good Cueto and then him going elsewhere as he declines. Makes sense.

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I don't see how this makes sense. If he is worth more on the market than the value of the final four years, and the Giants don't agree he is worth that much, if they had him locked up, they could trade him for significant value. If he's worth less, they are stuck with him. In a vacuum that clause has no upside for the Giants. I assume the upside is giving him the clause gets him to sign with them as opposed to someone else, which might be a very good reason to do it. It's awesome for Cueto - if his arm wears down he still gets a big pay day. Essentially in two years he is a free agent with a minimum safety net.

OaktownBear;842616812 said:

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I don't see how this makes sense. If he is worth more on the market than the value of the final four years, and the Giants don't agree he is worth that much, if they had him locked up, they could trade him for significant value. If he's worth less, they are stuck with him. In a vacuum that clause has no upside for the Giants. I assume the upside is giving him the clause gets him to sign with them as opposed to someone else, which might be a very good reason to do it. It's awesome for Cueto - if his arm wears down he still gets a big pay day. Essentially in two years he is a free agent with a minimum safety net.

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These opt out clauses have become the norm for big time pitchers. Grienke had one with the Dodgers. Kershaw has one. David Price just got one. Even Sabathia got one before he started sucking. Here is a good article discussing David Price's opt out clause from the player and team's perspective. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-value-of-the-opt-out-clause-in-the-david-price-contract/

This contract is better for the Giants then a 6 year $200mm deal which is probably closer to what Cueto wanted. I hope Cueto pitches lights out for 2 years and opts out and gets one of those deals from someone else. Obviously all things being equal you would rather not give a player option but obviously they had to do it to get the deal done and it's not all bad.

grandmastapoop;842616808 said:

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It makes sense from the Giants' perspective, too. If Cueto pitches well, he will be 31 and looking for one last huge contract. Someone will give it to him (another 6 year deal for more annual dollars). The Giants, meanwhile, would get the last two years of his prime, or certainly what you would expect to be the best, given history, and they could then decide if they want to try to re-sign him again (my guess would be no, given the age and the expected asking price/asking length of deal). Then they avoid paying an aging pitcher big money and let somebody else do it.

If he doesn't pitch well, the Giants are likely forced to keep him on the following 4 years. But that's true of every contract. I like the potential of 2 years of Good Cueto and then him going elsewhere as he declines. Makes sense.

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That's exactly how I see it. With most 6-7 year FA pitching contracts, you assume you'll get good performance the first 2-3 years with a steady decline that follows. You basically assume that the last 1-2 years are not going to be good values for the team. So if Cueto pitches well and opts out, the Giants will avoid the decline years entirely. Plus, they would make him a qualifying offer that he'd reject and get an extra draft pick in the process.

This plus Cueto has every incentive imaginable to destroy the league the next 2 years so he can opt out. That's a great incentive from the Giants standpoint. Everyone wants him to outpitch his contract for the first two years, well except the rest of the league of course.

philbert;842616845 said:

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That's exactly how I see it. With most 6-7 year FA pitching contracts, you assume you'll get good performance the first 2-3 years with a steady decline that follows. You basically assume that the last 1-2 years are not going to be good values for the team. So if Cueto pitches well and opts out, the Giants will avoid the decline years entirely. Plus, they would make him a qualifying offer that he'd reject and get an extra draft pick in the process.

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Unit2Sucks;842616852 said:

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This plus Cueto has every incentive imaginable to destroy the league the next 2 years so he can opt out. That's a great incentive from the Giants standpoint. Everyone wants him to outpitch his contract for the first two years, well except the rest of the league of course.

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Yeah, getting two season of prime Cueto is comparable to two years of Kershaw. Bum will remain the team's public "ace," but Cueto has been better than Bum the last 5 years by a pretty significant amount.

Bum/Cueto will be as solid a playoff 1-2 as anyone has. If either (1) Shark pitches the way he did with the A's, or (2) if Cain figures out his new elbow, SF will win the West and possibly 100 games. They already have a dynamite line-up, possibly the best in the NL if healthy.

Giants also have to buy some time for their young starter prospects (Beede, Crick, and Bickford) to develop. Couldn't have made their run without favorable early contracts on Cain, Timmy, and Bum. Same thing happened with Zito, Huddy, and Mulder.

grandmastapoop;842616808 said:

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It makes sense from the Giants' perspective, too. If Cueto pitches well, he will be 31 and looking for one last huge contract. Someone will give it to him (another 6 year deal for more annual dollars). The Giants, meanwhile, would get the last two years of his prime, or certainly what you would expect to be the best, given history, and they could then decide if they want to try to re-sign him again (my guess would be no, given the age and the expected asking price/asking length of deal). Then they avoid paying an aging pitcher big money and let somebody else do it.

If he doesn't pitch well, the Giants are likely forced to keep him on the following 4 years. But that's true of every contract. I like the potential of 2 years of Good Cueto and then him going elsewhere as he declines. Makes sense.

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Only if the Giants have the guts to let him walk if he outperforms his contract the first 2 years. I don't see that happening. If that happens, I see the Giants give in and hand him a back-breaking contract.
Although they did let Sandoval walk, so it's possible.

LethalFang;842617242 said:

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Only if the Giants have the guts to let him walk if he outperforms his contract the first 2 years. I don't see that happening. If that happens, I see the Giants give in and hand him a back-breaking contract.
Although they did let Sandoval walk, so it's possible.

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They'd also likely get a 1st round pick if he walks, so that's something.

I'd hesitate saying they let Panda walk - from all I heard they matched or exceeded the Boston deal, but Panda's feelings were hurt so he left.

Cueto has also had the benefit of being in his "prime" the last 5 years. Compare Cueto's age 22, 23, 24 seasons to Bum's and I think Bum looks pretty good. Crazy to think Bum is just a few months past his 26th birthday. Would love to see Cueto repeat his WS 2-hitter for the G men this coming year.

vanity;842617231 said:

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Yeah, getting two season of prime Cueto is comparable to two years of Kershaw. Bum will remain the team's public "ace," but Cueto has been better than Bum the last 5 years by a pretty significant amount.

Bum/Cueto will be as solid a playoff 1-2 as anyone has. If either (1) Shark pitches the way he did with the A's, or (2) if Cain figures out his new elbow, SF will win the West and possibly 100 games. They already have a dynamite line-up, possibly the best in the NL if healthy.

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25-0 for the Boys in Blue!! Next sweep begins tomorrow.

Go Dodgers!!

vanity;842617231 said:

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Yeah, getting two season of prime Cueto is comparable to two years of Kershaw. Bum will remain the team's public "ace," but Cueto has been better than Bum the last 5 years by a pretty significant amount.

Bum/Cueto will be as solid a playoff 1-2 as anyone has. If either (1) Shark pitches the way he did with the A's, or (2) if Cain figures out his new elbow, SF will win the West and possibly 100 games. They already have a dynamite line-up, possibly the best in the NL if healthy.

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Obviously I haven't seen this until now and I apologize for the late response. Two things- Comparing Cueto to Kershaw is possibly the most egregious thing I've ever heard and it's laughable. Secondly, the Giants lineup is markedly better but look at the Cubs lineup and it's not even close. Maybe the third or fourth best lineup in the NL. Vanity, I love your takes but way too biased on this one.

Ncsf;842674800 said:

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Obviously I haven't seen this until now and I apologize for the late response. Two things- Comparing Cueto to Kershaw is possibly the most egregious thing I've ever heard and it's laughable. Secondly, the Giants lineup is markedly better but look at the Cubs lineup and it's not even close. Maybe the third or fourth best lineup in the NL. Vanity, I love your takes but way too biased on this one.

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Cubs is debatable. Give me 2 more that are clearly better than the Giants. If healthy, they have 8 tough outs.

grandmastapoop;842674821 said:

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If healthy, they have 8 tough outs.

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9 if Bumgarner is pitching.

Rockies is one.

Cubbies are favored by many pundits. I say let Chitown have its fun until the Cubbies crap the bed...again.

If they do pull it out and win it all...man, look out NYY fans and BoSox fans...you will be challenged for the douchiest fans in the world. Boston went from lovable losers to Yankee asshats to the power of 9.

grandmastapoop;842674821 said:

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Cubs is debatable. Give me 2 more that are clearly better than the Giants. If healthy, they have 8 tough outs.

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Cubs is not close to debatable. They are far superior with their firepower. And I said maybe third or fourth. I like their lineup- that said, it's not made up of professional hitters that get comfortable swings on pitchers like the Mets guys or a Kershaw or Greinke. Span adds to that. Posey is that guy. Pence is too. We will see re Panik. I love Brandon C but he had a career year. Let's face it- Their lineup two years ago was mediocre. They won on defense, a couple timely hits, and a Herculean effort by Bumgarner who put them on their back. I'm glad they won but it wasn't murderers row.