BearDevil;842675889 said:

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What's going on with Belt's deal? Like the guy, but length of the deal seems a little long, especially if Buster moves to first base. Buster & Belt now both signed through 2021. Good news is that Buster may catch longer than previously anticipated, bad news is that Belt will too expensive as a back up first baseman/outfielder then.

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I'm liking the deal now. Tied it up with the long ball to the deep part of the yard.

AT&T playing like Coors Field right now. 6-6 in the 4th.

beelzebear;842675971 said:

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Cueto just gave up 5 runs in the first inning. Yeah, he's worth $130m guaranteed.

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Hurry, edit that post!

grandmastapoop;842675996 said:

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Hurry, edit that post!

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Beelze likes crow even more than Dodger Dogs.

At least the Brewers put up a fight...

slobear;842675976 said:

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AT&T playing like Coors Field right now. 6-6 in the 4th.

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Giants lineup is relentless.

MinotStateBeav;842675962 said:

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Let's be honest..if Posey moves to 1B..they can stash belt in Left lol. Every team does that.

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Exactly what's going to happen

Beat the bums!

3 of 4. I'll take it.

NYCGOBEARS;842675974 said:

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I'm liking the deal now. Tied it up with the long ball to the deep part of the yard.

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I'd like to see the Giants win the whole thing again but I'm not enamored with either one of the guys they picked up. At least Jeff S is in shape. Cueto is very talented but absolutely out of shape and susceptible to major injuries as he gets older. JS has not won as much as his stuff should indicate. Hope I'm wrong but...

Ncsf;842676017 said:

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I'd like to see the Giants win the whole thing again but I'm not enamored with either one of the guys they picked up. At least Jeff S is in shape. Cueto is very talented but absolutely out of shape and susceptible to major injuries as he gets older. JS has not won as much as his stuff should indicate. Hope I'm wrong but...

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Well, here's the thing:

-Free agent pitchers are expensive. Always are. You have to overpay to get them. There's also no salary cap in baseball, so if you've got the dough, use it.
-The Giants are set with their position players. Great lineup top-to-bottom with okay bench guys. No worries there.
-To contend, they don't need the new pitchers to be brilliant. Bumgarner is already the ace. The new guys just need to be solid rotation guys who can give you 6 innings and keep you close. I can easily see both of them doing so, and both have possible upside to be more. As such, I like both signings.

sycasey;842676025 said:

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Well, here's the thing:

-Free agent pitchers are expensive. Always are. You have to overpay to get them. There's also no salary cap in baseball, so if you've got the dough, use it.
-The Giants are set with their position players. Great lineup top-to-bottom with okay bench guys. No worries there.
-To contend, they don't need the new pitchers to be brilliant. Bumgarner is already the ace. The new guys just need to be solid rotation guys who can give you 6 innings and keep you close. I can easily see both of them doing so, and both have possible upside to be more. As such, I like both signings.

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I understand the concept, I'm in the game. JS is an inning eater. Cueto has been but he's an injury waiting to happen. Let's face it- that was a one man show two years ago. This team is built more for the regular season in my opinion. I want to see the bullpen and see if Strickland emerges as the power in the pen. The lineup is very good.

I want to see where the starters are and how they match up in the playoffs. The guy that is going to fool people IMO is Cain. Better command than last year and that tells me he's feeling better as much as velo.
JS will give you innings but I need to see he's made changes or he will get the same results he's gotten the last few years- and that's mediocrity. Cueto is an injury waiting to happen- we will see.

This team is not the most talented in the league but they have a big game pitcher, the best catcher, and the best shortstop. Throw in the best manager and that's a great recipe for success.

Need three starters for the playoffs: Bum plus two of Cueto, Cain, JS. Giants have some good young starters in the pipeline and they don't want to start the clock on them too early. Barring injuries, they don't need any additional position players/bats, but they may need a (rental) starter for the playoffs. Depends on how much Cain bounces back, where Cueto and JS are at the trading deadline, and if any of the young minor league starters develop enough this season. Like the Braves and As, Giants rode young starters before their contracts exploded, but they're still trying to win while transitioning to the next generation of starters. Huddy & Peavy got one year too many because of savvy agents and timing. Cueto's the one deal that could explode if he doesn't pitch well and opt out. Based on the timing of Belt's deal, Giants seem pretty confident they'll contend through 2021. They like their current core and appear to believe that at least two of the young minor league starters will emerge.

BearDevil;842676080 said:

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Need three starters for the playoffs: Bum plus two of Cueto, Cain, JS. Giants have some good young starters in the pipeline and they don't want to start the clock on them too early. Barring injuries, they don't need any additional position players/bats, but they may need a (rental) starter for the playoffs. Depends on how much Cain bounces back, where Cueto and JS are at the trading deadline, and if any of the young minor league starters develop enough this season. Like the Braves and As, Giants rode young starters before their contracts exploded, but they're still trying to win while transitioning to the next generation of starters. Huddy & Peavy got one year too many because of savvy agents and timing. Cueto's the one deal that could explode if he doesn't pitch well and opt out. Based on the timing of Belt's deal, Giants seem pretty confident they'll contend through 2021. They like their current core and appear to believe that at least two of the young minor league starters will emerge.

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Really, really good post. Some questions on makeup of some of the guys in the minors according to some insiders but the tools are there.

I hope (expect) that Cueto will pitch well enough the next two years that he will opt out and get a bigger contract elsewhere (like Greinke did). He's still young enough to stay healthy during this time and avoid the inevitable decline for pitchers in their 30s. At that point, I hope either Beede or Bickford will be ready to step into the rotation. Not sure if any of the other minor league pitchers would project as front line starters, besides those too.

Bum's signed through 2019. He'll be 30 then, so will be interesting how many years they offer him. Might want to redo his deal earlier to give him bumps up front rather than having to sign a deal with more years when his current contract ends.

Beede and Bickford are the future. Blackburn may not be at their level, but he may be ready this season. Not high level, but clock's already started on Heston and Broadway.

What's going on with the Giants? Why are they 7 - 9 and the Dodger 10 - 6 ?

Is it too early to make any judgments?

Only 146 more games. Getting frisky now is pointless. However just for the hell of it...GO BLUE!

oski003;842679809 said:

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What's going on with the Giants? Why are they 7 - 9 and the Dodger 10 - 6 ?

Is it too early to make any judgments?

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Yeah, hard to say. Could just be one of those random slumps. I'd imagine the Giants' lineup has too many good hitters to be this bad for long.

beelzebear;842675971 said:

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Cueto just gave up 5 runs in the first inning. Yeah, he's worth $130m guaranteed.

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Maybe too soon to write off Cueto after one bad inning? Do you write off Kershaw every time he gets shelled in the playoffs?

Cueto had a pretty decent outing last night ...
http://espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=360426126

Unit2Sucks;842682389 said:

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Maybe too soon to write off Cueto after one bad inning? Do you write off Kershaw every time he gets shelled in the playoffs?

Cueto had a pretty decent outing last night ...
http://espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=360426126

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Cueto is NOT Kershaw, simple as that.

beelzebear;842682396 said:

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Cueto is NOT Kershaw, simple as that.

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Hope he's not playoffs Kershaw.

The Dodgers and Giants both entered 2016 with Top 5 payrolls.

It's a shame the league doesn't offer a level playing field for all teams. It's not healthy for baseball and its fan bases in the long run.

NYCGOBEARS;842682399 said:

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Hope he's not playoffs Kershaw.

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He's still the best pitcher in MLB.

Chapman_is_Gone;842682403 said:

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The Dodgers and Giants both entered 2016 with Top 5 payrolls.

It's a shame the league doesn't offer a level playing field for all teams. It's not healthy for baseball and its fan bases in the long run.

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You must be an A's fan

beelzebear;842682405 said:

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He's still the best pitcher in MLB.

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Agreed but that wasn't unit's point.

Beezlebear pulling a Trump with the redirection. This wasn't about Kershaw.

Since we are now talking Kershaw, isn't he 2-6 with a 4.6 ERA lifetime in the playoffs? Is that a sufficient sample size to judge him?

GB54;842682408 said:

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You must be an A's fan

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Padres. Although my love of baseball fades a little bit every year. What's the point of taking it seriously? A handful of teams are spending 2x and sometimes even 3x what the Padres and the other 15 or so small to medium market teams can spend.

Chapman_is_Gone;842682488 said:

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Padres. Although my love of baseball fades a little bit every year. What's the point of taking it seriously? A handful of teams are spending 2x and sometimes even 3x what the Padres and the other 15 or so small to medium market teams can spend.

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Nlcs: mets (#21 payroll) v Cubs (#13)

Alcs: Jays (#10) v royals (#16)

Maybe the Padres should get a competent gm rather than bitching about payroll

ducky23;842682492 said:

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Nlcs: mets (#21 payroll) v Cubs (#13)

Alcs: Jays (#10) v royals (#16)

Maybe the Padres should get a competent gm rather than bitching about payroll

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Outliers prove nothing. Are you seriously saying you don't think payrolls matter? That as a GM, you'd be indifferent to having $100 million a year versus having $200 million a year? Don't you think the Padres would love to have Justin Upton on their roster this year? Don't you think the Padres would like to have their pick on the international market litter every year like the Dodgers and Giants do?

I could give you 50 examples of how payrolls matter across many sports. Example 1, Manchester City getting a rich ownership group and buying their way to the top of the Premier League. And so on.

Sorry, you brought up a tired ass argument used by fans of rich clubs, and it's one I'm not interested in debating. Because it flies in the face of logic and common sense.

Chapman_is_Gone;842682495 said:

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Outliers prove nothing. Are you seriously saying you don't think payrolls matter? That as a GM, you'd be indifferent to having $100 million a year versus having $200 million a year? Don't you think the Padres would love to have Justin Upton on their roster this year? Don't you think the Padres would like to have their pick on the international market litter every year like the Dodgers and Giants do?

I could give you 50 examples of how payrolls matter across many sports. Example 1, Manchester City getting a rich ownership group and buying their way to the top of the Premier League. And so on.

Sorry, you brought up a tired ass argument used by fans of rich clubs, and it's one I'm not interested in debating. Because it flies in the face of logic and common sense.

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You are conveniently changing your argument.

Of course having money helps. No one is arguing otherwise. But it is not the determining factor

Earlier you stated "what's the point of taking it seriously?"

Well the royals just won a championship. Do you think all of their fans should have stopped taking it seriously cause they were a mid market team?

Unit2Sucks;842682428 said:

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Beezlebear pulling a Trump with the redirection. This wasn't about Kershaw.

Since we are now talking Kershaw, isn't he 2-6 with a 4.6 ERA lifetime in the playoffs? Is that a sufficient sample size to judge him?

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Probably just as relevant as Cueto's 5.35 career post-season ERA?

Unit2Sucks;842682428 said:

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Beezlebear pulling a Trump with the redirection. This wasn't about Kershaw.

Since we are now talking Kershaw, isn't he 2-6 with a 4.6 ERA lifetime in the playoffs? Is that a sufficient sample size to judge him?

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Here's a pretty good way to judge him- He has the best ERA among qualified pitchers EVER!!! It's just silly to compare him to Bungarner. Major league players that I know say there's no comparison. Fastball is firmer, more movement, and breaking ball much sharper with down plane where Bumgarner breaking ball rolls as compared. Look, I don't like the Dodgers but every single GM in MLB would take Kershaw over Bumgarner or any other pitcher for that matter.

Good for Bum, he got in the zone a couple times. That said, to denigrate Kershaw because of a couple bad innings, and that's what it is, is really foolish.

Ncsf - you have me all wrong. I think Kershaw is phenomenal. As a Giants fan I enjoy the fact that he's had some bad outings in the playoffs which have led to early exits by the Dodgers but I recognize Kershaw is the best thing going. I am more than happy the Giants have Bumgarner and you can't take away his playoff success.

None of that is relevant though to the discussion I am having. This started because beezlebear claimed Cueto was a bust and not worth his contract because he had a bad inning. I only mentioned Kershaw to point out that one bad outing does not a pitcher make. The question was never whether Cueto was better than Kershaw, it was whether Cueto was a bust because he had a bad outing.

It's obviously far too early to determine whether Cueto is going to live up to his contract, but at this point I don't see how a reasonable person can conclude he's not meeting expectations.

Ncsf;842682745 said:

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Here's a pretty good way to judge him- He has the best ERA among qualified pitchers EVER!!!

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I see on baseball reference that he's tops among active pitchers, but what makes you think he's number one all time?

NYCGOBEARS;842682411 said:

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Agreed but that wasn't unit's point.

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Unit, I guess the brevity of my post didn't convey the idea well enough! Good job.