Hey Dodgers Fans

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Big C
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philbert said:

Candlestick was a dump! Bad weather, bad neighborhood, bad access.... There's a reason the owner tried so hard to get a new stadium built anywhere else but there.

Best marketing ever: the "Croix de Candlestick"*.

a) appeal to your base
b) turn (or at least try to turn) a huge negative into a positive

I wonder if anybody at Cal Athletics remembers this.






* If you sat through to the end of an extra-innings night game at the 'Stick, they would pass out little Croix de Candelstick buttons. I never earned one because I didn't go to enough night games there. I would see some people with several of them on their cap... respect. I suppose some people acquired them w/o earning them, but those are folks lacking in character.
dimitrig
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sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

Well, Candlestick seats more than Dodgers Stadium which is one reason why I used that year. The other reason being it was a year the Giants made the playoffs so presumably there was some interest.

Candlestick (1997) 58,000 seats

Dodgers Stadium (1997, 2005) 56,000 seats

Also, that year the Giants finished 20th (!) in attendance. Do you want to argue that there were 19 bigger metros that had bigger stadiums?

In 1997 the Dodgers finished 2 games behind the Giants. They were 5th in attendance, 1.6M more than the Giants.
1997 is a terrible example. The Giants had been trash in 1995 and 1996, so no one really believed they would be good that year. And of course, that was coming right after the 1994 strike, which depressed attendance across the board. Crowds didn't start showing up until late in the year.

Candlestick was a bad ballpark in a bad location, so it always took time to warm people up to the idea of attending regular-season games there. Why don't you look at attendance figures from after the new park opened?


So you are saying that attendance was bad because the team had been bad? Isn't that proof that Giants fans are front runners?

sycasey
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dimitrig said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

Well, Candlestick seats more than Dodgers Stadium which is one reason why I used that year. The other reason being it was a year the Giants made the playoffs so presumably there was some interest.

Candlestick (1997) 58,000 seats

Dodgers Stadium (1997, 2005) 56,000 seats

Also, that year the Giants finished 20th (!) in attendance. Do you want to argue that there were 19 bigger metros that had bigger stadiums?

In 1997 the Dodgers finished 2 games behind the Giants. They were 5th in attendance, 1.6M more than the Giants.
1997 is a terrible example. The Giants had been trash in 1995 and 1996, so no one really believed they would be good that year. And of course, that was coming right after the 1994 strike, which depressed attendance across the board. Crowds didn't start showing up until late in the year.

Candlestick was a bad ballpark in a bad location, so it always took time to warm people up to the idea of attending regular-season games there. Why don't you look at attendance figures from after the new park opened?


So you are saying that attendance was bad because the team had been bad? Isn't that proof that Giants fans are front runners?



Attendance was bad because the ballpark was bad. It was unusually bad in a playoff year like 1997 because of the previous years of losing and the strike.

Once the ballpark got better, attendance was routinely near the top. Even in a smaller park (!).
oski003
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sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

Well, Candlestick seats more than Dodgers Stadium which is one reason why I used that year. The other reason being it was a year the Giants made the playoffs so presumably there was some interest.

Candlestick (1997) 58,000 seats

Dodgers Stadium (1997, 2005) 56,000 seats

Also, that year the Giants finished 20th (!) in attendance. Do you want to argue that there were 19 bigger metros that had bigger stadiums?

In 1997 the Dodgers finished 2 games behind the Giants. They were 5th in attendance, 1.6M more than the Giants.
1997 is a terrible example. The Giants had been trash in 1995 and 1996, so no one really believed they would be good that year. And of course, that was coming right after the 1994 strike, which depressed attendance across the board. Crowds didn't start showing up until late in the year.

Candlestick was a bad ballpark in a bad location, so it always took time to warm people up to the idea of attending regular-season games there. Why don't you look at attendance figures from after the new park opened?


So you are saying that attendance was bad because the team had been bad? Isn't that proof that Giants fans are front runners?



Attendance was bad because the ballpark was bad. It was unusually bad in a playoff year like 1997 because of the previous years of losing and the strike.

Once the ballpark got better, attendance was routinely near the top. Even in a smaller park (!).


Interesting that they made the ballpark smaller...
philbert
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

Well, Candlestick seats more than Dodgers Stadium which is one reason why I used that year. The other reason being it was a year the Giants made the playoffs so presumably there was some interest.

Candlestick (1997) 58,000 seats

Dodgers Stadium (1997, 2005) 56,000 seats

Also, that year the Giants finished 20th (!) in attendance. Do you want to argue that there were 19 bigger metros that had bigger stadiums?

In 1997 the Dodgers finished 2 games behind the Giants. They were 5th in attendance, 1.6M more than the Giants.
1997 is a terrible example. The Giants had been trash in 1995 and 1996, so no one really believed they would be good that year. And of course, that was coming right after the 1994 strike, which depressed attendance across the board. Crowds didn't start showing up until late in the year.

Candlestick was a bad ballpark in a bad location, so it always took time to warm people up to the idea of attending regular-season games there. Why don't you look at attendance figures from after the new park opened?


So you are saying that attendance was bad because the team had been bad? Isn't that proof that Giants fans are front runners?



Attendance was bad because the ballpark was bad. It was unusually bad in a playoff year like 1997 because of the previous years of losing and the strike.

Once the ballpark got better, attendance was routinely near the top. Even in a smaller park (!).


Interesting that they made the ballpark smaller...
That's the style that is preferred for most of the newer stadiums. It was modeled in the style of Camden Yards for a more intimate feel.
GMP
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

Well, Candlestick seats more than Dodgers Stadium which is one reason why I used that year. The other reason being it was a year the Giants made the playoffs so presumably there was some interest.

Candlestick (1997) 58,000 seats

Dodgers Stadium (1997, 2005) 56,000 seats

Also, that year the Giants finished 20th (!) in attendance. Do you want to argue that there were 19 bigger metros that had bigger stadiums?

In 1997 the Dodgers finished 2 games behind the Giants. They were 5th in attendance, 1.6M more than the Giants.
1997 is a terrible example. The Giants had been trash in 1995 and 1996, so no one really believed they would be good that year. And of course, that was coming right after the 1994 strike, which depressed attendance across the board. Crowds didn't start showing up until late in the year.

Candlestick was a bad ballpark in a bad location, so it always took time to warm people up to the idea of attending regular-season games there. Why don't you look at attendance figures from after the new park opened?


So you are saying that attendance was bad because the team had been bad? Isn't that proof that Giants fans are front runners?



Attendance was bad because the ballpark was bad. It was unusually bad in a playoff year like 1997 because of the previous years of losing and the strike.

Once the ballpark got better, attendance was routinely near the top. Even in a smaller park (!).


Interesting that they made the ballpark smaller...


They made it as big as they could given the space concerns, butting up against the Bay (not the ocean!) and a neighborhood. Because, I mean, who would bulldoze an entire residential neighborhood to make room for a baseball stadium, hahaha that would be awful. Who would do that? Oh wait………

https://laist.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/dodger-stadium-chavez-ravine-battle

ducky23
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

Well, Candlestick seats more than Dodgers Stadium which is one reason why I used that year. The other reason being it was a year the Giants made the playoffs so presumably there was some interest.

Candlestick (1997) 58,000 seats

Dodgers Stadium (1997, 2005) 56,000 seats

Also, that year the Giants finished 20th (!) in attendance. Do you want to argue that there were 19 bigger metros that had bigger stadiums?

In 1997 the Dodgers finished 2 games behind the Giants. They were 5th in attendance, 1.6M more than the Giants.
1997 is a terrible example. The Giants had been trash in 1995 and 1996, so no one really believed they would be good that year. And of course, that was coming right after the 1994 strike, which depressed attendance across the board. Crowds didn't start showing up until late in the year.

Candlestick was a bad ballpark in a bad location, so it always took time to warm people up to the idea of attending regular-season games there. Why don't you look at attendance figures from after the new park opened?


So you are saying that attendance was bad because the team had been bad? Isn't that proof that Giants fans are front runners?



Attendance was bad because the ballpark was bad. It was unusually bad in a playoff year like 1997 because of the previous years of losing and the strike.

Once the ballpark got better, attendance was routinely near the top. Even in a smaller park (!).


Interesting that they made the ballpark smaller...
I know for a fact you can't be this obtuse.

All you are is a poor man's dimitrig. congrats!
GMP
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Even Passan agrees the Dodgers won a fake postseason.

sycasey
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

Well, Candlestick seats more than Dodgers Stadium which is one reason why I used that year. The other reason being it was a year the Giants made the playoffs so presumably there was some interest.

Candlestick (1997) 58,000 seats

Dodgers Stadium (1997, 2005) 56,000 seats

Also, that year the Giants finished 20th (!) in attendance. Do you want to argue that there were 19 bigger metros that had bigger stadiums?

In 1997 the Dodgers finished 2 games behind the Giants. They were 5th in attendance, 1.6M more than the Giants.
1997 is a terrible example. The Giants had been trash in 1995 and 1996, so no one really believed they would be good that year. And of course, that was coming right after the 1994 strike, which depressed attendance across the board. Crowds didn't start showing up until late in the year.

Candlestick was a bad ballpark in a bad location, so it always took time to warm people up to the idea of attending regular-season games there. Why don't you look at attendance figures from after the new park opened?


So you are saying that attendance was bad because the team had been bad? Isn't that proof that Giants fans are front runners?



Attendance was bad because the ballpark was bad. It was unusually bad in a playoff year like 1997 because of the previous years of losing and the strike.

Once the ballpark got better, attendance was routinely near the top. Even in a smaller park (!).


Interesting that they made the ballpark smaller...
Yes, annual attendance went way up even though there were fewer seats. Even more impressive by Giants fans to start showing up like that!
dimitrig
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Dodgers win!

Looking forward to the Giants!

Two best teams in baseball deserve to face off against each other in the playoffs!

Wish we had Muncy to put some in the Bay but it is what it is.
chazzed
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GMP said:

Even Passan agrees the Dodgers won a fake postseason.




Well that settles it. We can close the book on that issue, sports fans.
sycasey
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Bring it on.
71Bear
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dimitrig said:


Dodgers win!

Looking forward to the Giants!

Two best teams in baseball deserve to face off against each other in the playoffs!

Wish we had Muncy to put some in the Bay but it is what it is.

Both teams are missing their 1B's. Should be an interesting series….
oski003
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Dodgers have to resort to this to fill their stadium. Now I understand why the Giants reduced their stadium capacity 33%.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/06/us/us-marshals-dodgers-most-wanted-fugitive-trnd/index.html
heartofthebear
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Well, it's on --Giants vs. Dodgers in the playoffs for the first time ever.
And what a year to do it.
These 2 teams aren't just good.
They are incredibly dramatic.
Be prepared to lose all of your fingernails, probably in the first game.
I don't know if I can handle 3-5 nights of this in a weeks time.

Wait a minute--if I can handle Cal football, I can handle anything.
Big C
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dimitrig said:


Dodgers win!

Looking forward to the Giants!

Two best teams in baseball deserve to face off against each other in the playoffs!

Wish we had Muncy to put some in the Bay but it is what it is.


Especially with the 107 and 106 wins, they should be facing each other for the pennant. JMO
sycasey
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Big C said:

dimitrig said:


Dodgers win!

Looking forward to the Giants!

Two best teams in baseball deserve to face off against each other in the playoffs!

Wish we had Muncy to put some in the Bay but it is what it is.


Especially with the 107 and 106 wins, they should be facing each other for the pennant. JMO

They should. It's stupid that MLB doesn't re-seed after the wild card game.

I'll say the same thing I said for the series in September: no reason the Dodgers shouldn't win this. They have the most loaded roster, the most money, etc. If the Giants eliminate them after taking the division title it will be hilarious.
oski003
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Dodgers are -170 to win the series. It is far from a lock.

Dodgers 26 man payroll is 175 million. Giants is 135 million. Orioles is 14 million.
philbert
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oski003 said:

Dodgers are -170 to win the series. It is far from a lock.

Dodgers 26 man payroll is 175 million. Giants is 135 million. Orioles is 14 million.
You're just conveniently leaving off the hefty salaries of Bauer, Kershaw, and Muncy just because they're injured?
oski003
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philbert said:

oski003 said:

Dodgers are -170 to win the series. It is far from a lock.

Dodgers 26 man payroll is 175 million. Giants is 135 million. Orioles is 14 million.
You're just conveniently leaving off the hefty salaries of Bauer, Kershaw, and Muncy just because they're injured?


Dodgers have 44 million in injured payroll. Giants have 20 million.
71Bear
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philbert said:

oski003 said:

Dodgers are -170 to win the series. It is far from a lock.

Dodgers 26 man payroll is 175 million. Giants is 135 million. Orioles is 14 million.
You're just conveniently leaving off the hefty salaries of Bauer, Kershaw, and Muncy just because they're injured?
LA total 2021 payroll - 267 million
SF total 2021-payroll - 164 million
Baltimore total 2021 payroll - 54 million

Source: Spotrac

Having said that, who cares what the payroll is for each team. It isn't how much money you have, it's what you do with it.

Tampa (71 million) is a great example of squeezing the most out of each dollar and the Yankees (203 million) are an example of how to waste your money.

oski003
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71Bear said:

philbert said:

oski003 said:

Dodgers are -170 to win the series. It is far from a lock.

Dodgers 26 man payroll is 175 million. Giants is 135 million. Orioles is 14 million.
You're just conveniently leaving off the hefty salaries of Bauer, Kershaw, and Muncy just because they're injured?
LA total 2021 payroll - 267 million
SF total 2021-payroll - 164 million
Baltimore total 2021 payroll - 54 million

Source: Spotrac

Having said that, who cares what the payroll is for each team. It isn't how much money you have, it's what you do with it.

Tampa is a great example of squeezing the most out of each dollar and the Yankees are an example of how to waste your money.




I agree.
philbert
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oski003 said:

philbert said:

oski003 said:

Dodgers are -170 to win the series. It is far from a lock.

Dodgers 26 man payroll is 175 million. Giants is 135 million. Orioles is 14 million.
You're just conveniently leaving off the hefty salaries of Bauer, Kershaw, and Muncy just because they're injured?


Dodgers have 44 million in injured payroll. Giants have 20 million.
Closer to $70M for LA (I'm including Bauer)

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/payroll/
Unit2Sucks
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Baseball is a lopsided sport but a lot of winning has to do with where you are with your stars in their contract lifecycle. The giants have underperformed payroll after they won 3 WS and had to pay people. It is what it is.

The dodgers have a great team and the giants are having a great season. Should make for a compelling NLDS. I hope the Giants win but I have no reason to discredit the Dodgers if they win. I'm bummed Kershaw isn't playing because I still think he's a choker and would like to see him get shelled in yet another playoff series. If the Dodgers win this year it will be interesting to see what impact it has on his legacy. By the way, I still think Kershaw is a phenomenal pitcher and first ballot hall of famer, no question.

Go Giants.
71Bear
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Unit2Sucks said:

Baseball is a lopsided sport but a lot of winning has to do with where you are with your stars in their contract lifecycle. The giants have underperformed payroll after they won 3 WS and had to pay people. It is what it is.

The dodgers have a great team and the giants are having a great season. Should make for a compelling NLDS. I hope the Giants win but I have no reason to discredit the Dodgers if they win. I'm bummed Kershaw isn't playing because I still think he's a choker and would like to see him get shelled in yet another playoff series. If the Dodgers win this year it will be interesting to see what impact it has on his legacy. By the way, I still think Kershaw is a phenomenal pitcher and first ballot hall of famer, no question.

Go Giants.

As a future Hall of Famer with a World Series ring, Kershaw's legacy is secure regardless of the outcome of this season.
dimitrig
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The thing about these Dodgers is that they are not a team of mercenaries.

Yes, they brought in Turner and Scherzer this season and Mookie Betts last season, but most of their talent was either drafted by the organization or else picked up off the scrap heap.

Seager was drafted by the Dodgers

Bellinger was drafted by the Dodgers

Will Smith was drafted by the Dodgers

Buehler was drafted by the Dodgers

Kershaw was drafted by the Dodgers

Kenley Jansen was signed as an undrafted free agent catcher converted to a pitcher

Urias was scouted in Mexico and signed with the Dodgers on his 16th birthday

Taylor came up with the Mariners as a shortstop but was acquired for Zach Lee after playing three uneventful seasons for the Mariners

I think you know the story of Muncy, who was with the A's but they outright released him. Dodgers signed him to a minor league deal.

Justin Turner was not tendered by the Mets and the Dodgers picked him up on a minor league contract

Their payroll is huge because a lot of these guys panned out and they had to pay to keep them, but this wasn't a team that bought their way to success.



sycasey
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dimitrig said:


The thing about these Dodgers is that they are not a team of mercenaries.

Yes, they brought in Turner and Scherzer this season and Mookie Betts last season, but most of their talent was either drafted by the organization or else picked up off the scrap heap.

Seager was drafted by the Dodgers

Bellinger was drafted by the Dodgers

Will Smith was drafted by the Dodgers

Buehler was drafted by the Dodgers

Kershaw was drafted by the Dodgers

Kenley Jansen was signed as an undrafted free agent catcher converted to a pitcher

Urias was scouted in Mexico and signed with the Dodgers on his 16th birthday

Taylor came up with the Mariners as a shortstop but was acquired for Zach Lee after playing three uneventful seasons for the Mariners

I think you know the story of Muncy, who was with the A's but they outright released him. Dodgers signed him to a minor league deal.

Justin Turner was not tendered by the Mets and the Dodgers picked him up on a minor league contract

Their payroll is huge because a lot of these guys panned out and they had to pay to keep them, but this wasn't a team that bought their way to success.
Yes, and this is the exact same argument Yankees fans made in the late 90s.
heartofthebear
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Little known fact about the "hot" St. Louis Cardinals, who won 17 in a row.
The best team from Sept. 1 to the end of the season was not St. Louis.
In fact St. Louis was not even 2nd best.
St. Louis was 23-9

#1 was SF Giants at 23-7
#2 was LA Dodgers 22-7

So, technically the Giants and Dodgers are the hottest teams right now.
Of course you don't seem "hot" when you do it all year.
So much for streaky "hot" teams.
It doesn't match up to being the best.

But I wonder, did Bellinger steal the sign for Taylor last night?
Taylor had been slumping badly and did not look good last night.
The Dodgers rarely had anyone on second all night, although Bellinger had been on second two other times and both times the hitter (Mookie Betts) hit the ball hard (single and sharp line drive to center).
I thought I saw Bellinger make a subtle signal shortly before the pitch to Taylor but I could be imagining things.
Taylor smashed that first pitch after the steal for a home run.

There were 2 other times that the Dodgers had guys on second. The first was with the bases loaded in the 3rd and Trea Turner lined hard into an inning ending double play. The second was in the 6th and AJ Pollock hit a weak hit in front of home plate that was fielded by the pitcher for an out at first.

It may be that Bellinger is better at stealing signs than other guys or that they don't do as well stealing the signs until later in the game or that I am full of ****. But, as a Giant fan, I'd rather not have Bellinger at second, which may be hard to do because I think he is finally breaking out of his season long problems and is seeing the ball well.
71Bear
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heartofthebear said:

Little known fact about the "hot" St. Louis Cardinals, who won 17 in a row.
The best team from Sept. 1 to the end of the season was not St. Louis.
In fact St. Louis was not even 2nd best.
St. Louis was 23-9

#1 was SF Giants at 23-7
#2 was LA Dodgers 22-7

So, technically the Giants and Dodgers are the hottest teams right now.
Of course you don't seem "hot" when you do it all year.
So much for streaky "hot" teams.
It doesn't match up to being the best.

But I wonder, did Bellinger steal the sign for Taylor last night?
Taylor had been slumping badly and did not look good last night.
The Dodgers rarely had anyone on second all night, although Bellinger had been on second two other times and both times the hitter (Mookie Betts) hit the ball hard (single and sharp line drive to center).
I thought I saw Bellinger make a subtle signal shortly before the pitch to Taylor but I could be imagining things.
Taylor smashed that first pitch after the steal for a home run.

There were 2 other times that the Dodgers had guys on second. The first was with the bases loaded in the 3rd and Trea Turner lined hard into an inning ending double play. The second was in the 6th and AJ Pollock hit a weak hit in front of home plate that was fielded by the pitcher for an out at first.

It may be that Bellinger is better at stealing signs than other guys or that they don't do as well stealing the signs until later in the game or that I am full of ****. But, as a Giant fan, I'd rather not have Bellinger at second, which may be hard to do because I think he is finally breaking out of his season long problems and is seeing the ball well.
Players stealing signs is as old as the game. There is nothing wrong with that. If your opponent isn't changing things up when there is a runner at second, too bad for them.

Where sign stealing crosses the line is when technology is brought into the equation.
71Bear
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sycasey said:

dimitrig said:


The thing about these Dodgers is that they are not a team of mercenaries.

Yes, they brought in Turner and Scherzer this season and Mookie Betts last season, but most of their talent was either drafted by the organization or else picked up off the scrap heap.

Seager was drafted by the Dodgers

Bellinger was drafted by the Dodgers

Will Smith was drafted by the Dodgers

Buehler was drafted by the Dodgers

Kershaw was drafted by the Dodgers

Kenley Jansen was signed as an undrafted free agent catcher converted to a pitcher

Urias was scouted in Mexico and signed with the Dodgers on his 16th birthday

Taylor came up with the Mariners as a shortstop but was acquired for Zach Lee after playing three uneventful seasons for the Mariners

I think you know the story of Muncy, who was with the A's but they outright released him. Dodgers signed him to a minor league deal.

Justin Turner was not tendered by the Mets and the Dodgers picked him up on a minor league contract

Their payroll is huge because a lot of these guys panned out and they had to pay to keep them, but this wasn't a team that bought their way to success.
Yes, and this is the exact same argument Yankees fans made in the late 90s.
I can't say anything about the Yanks but I can say LA has done a terrific job of identifying and drafting players and using those resources to acquire major league talent.

71Bear
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dimitrig said:


The thing about these Dodgers is that they are not a team of mercenaries.

Yes, they brought in Turner and Scherzer this season and Mookie Betts last season, but most of their talent was either drafted by the organization or else picked up off the scrap heap.

Seager was drafted by the Dodgers

Bellinger was drafted by the Dodgers

Will Smith was drafted by the Dodgers

Buehler was drafted by the Dodgers

Kershaw was drafted by the Dodgers

Kenley Jansen was signed as an undrafted free agent catcher converted to a pitcher

Urias was scouted in Mexico and signed with the Dodgers on his 16th birthday

Taylor came up with the Mariners as a shortstop but was acquired for Zach Lee after playing three uneventful seasons for the Mariners

I think you know the story of Muncy, who was with the A's but they outright released him. Dodgers signed him to a minor league deal.

Justin Turner was not tendered by the Mets and the Dodgers picked him up on a minor league contract

Their payroll is huge because a lot of these guys panned out and they had to pay to keep them, but this wasn't a team that bought their way to success.




I agree. By the way, Muncy was Zaidi's first acquisition of an under appreciated player. Since then, he has had a bit more success

heartofthebear
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71Bear said:

heartofthebear said:

Little known fact about the "hot" St. Louis Cardinals, who won 17 in a row.
The best team from Sept. 1 to the end of the season was not St. Louis.
In fact St. Louis was not even 2nd best.
St. Louis was 23-9

#1 was SF Giants at 23-7
#2 was LA Dodgers 22-7

So, technically the Giants and Dodgers are the hottest teams right now.
Of course you don't seem "hot" when you do it all year.
So much for streaky "hot" teams.
It doesn't match up to being the best.

But I wonder, did Bellinger steal the sign for Taylor last night?
Taylor had been slumping badly and did not look good last night.
The Dodgers rarely had anyone on second all night, although Bellinger had been on second two other times and both times the hitter (Mookie Betts) hit the ball hard (single and sharp line drive to center).
I thought I saw Bellinger make a subtle signal shortly before the pitch to Taylor but I could be imagining things.
Taylor smashed that first pitch after the steal for a home run.

There were 2 other times that the Dodgers had guys on second. The first was with the bases loaded in the 3rd and Trea Turner lined hard into an inning ending double play. The second was in the 6th and AJ Pollock hit a weak hit in front of home plate that was fielded by the pitcher for an out at first.

It may be that Bellinger is better at stealing signs than other guys or that they don't do as well stealing the signs until later in the game or that I am full of ****. But, as a Giant fan, I'd rather not have Bellinger at second, which may be hard to do because I think he is finally breaking out of his season long problems and is seeing the ball well.
Players stealing signs is as old as the game. There is nothing wrong with that. If your opponent isn't changing things up when there is a runner at second, too bad for them.

Where sign stealing crosses the line is when technology is brought into the equation.
My apologies if my post sounded disrespectful. I have a great deal of respect for Bellinger either way. He has had a very tough year and has found ways to help the team despite that. He was on base 3 times yesterday and, if he can contribute by stealing signs, more power to him.

I do think that teams are changing it up, which may explain the length of games these days. I mean, despite the efforts of MLB administrators, the games are longer than ever. The length of time between pitches seems to have extended quite a bit, with pitchers taking a very long time getting signs and batters stepping out because of it.

It seems that the time between pitches is averaging more than 1 minute. With nearly 200 pitches pitched per game, you do the math. This doesn't include breaks between innings, trips to the mound etc.

It also seems that I'm seeing more long counts, more foul balls with 2 strikes and more pitching changes. In fact batters are now trained specifically to make the pitcher throw more pitches. I wouldn't be surprised if pitches are well above 200 per game in some instances.

I was at a game in SF this year that went over 4 hours. We left at the 4 hour point in order to catch the train. The game was still in the 9th inning. The final score was 9-6.

Baseball used to be routinely faster than football. But football games have actually gotten a bit faster. Games used to go about 3.5 hours. Now they are closer to 3 much of the time. So actually baseball games are longer than football games now much to the chagrin of MLB and viewers.
71Bear
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heartofthebear said:

71Bear said:

heartofthebear said:

Little known fact about the "hot" St. Louis Cardinals, who won 17 in a row.
The best team from Sept. 1 to the end of the season was not St. Louis.
In fact St. Louis was not even 2nd best.
St. Louis was 23-9

#1 was SF Giants at 23-7
#2 was LA Dodgers 22-7

So, technically the Giants and Dodgers are the hottest teams right now.
Of course you don't seem "hot" when you do it all year.
So much for streaky "hot" teams.
It doesn't match up to being the best.

But I wonder, did Bellinger steal the sign for Taylor last night?
Taylor had been slumping badly and did not look good last night.
The Dodgers rarely had anyone on second all night, although Bellinger had been on second two other times and both times the hitter (Mookie Betts) hit the ball hard (single and sharp line drive to center).
I thought I saw Bellinger make a subtle signal shortly before the pitch to Taylor but I could be imagining things.
Taylor smashed that first pitch after the steal for a home run.

There were 2 other times that the Dodgers had guys on second. The first was with the bases loaded in the 3rd and Trea Turner lined hard into an inning ending double play. The second was in the 6th and AJ Pollock hit a weak hit in front of home plate that was fielded by the pitcher for an out at first.

It may be that Bellinger is better at stealing signs than other guys or that they don't do as well stealing the signs until later in the game or that I am full of ****. But, as a Giant fan, I'd rather not have Bellinger at second, which may be hard to do because I think he is finally breaking out of his season long problems and is seeing the ball well.
Players stealing signs is as old as the game. There is nothing wrong with that. If your opponent isn't changing things up when there is a runner at second, too bad for them.

Where sign stealing crosses the line is when technology is brought into the equation.
My apologies if my post sounded disrespectful. I have a great deal of respect for Bellinger either way. He has had a very tough year and has found ways to help the team despite that. He was on base 3 times yesterday and, if he can contribute by stealing signs, more power to him.

I do think that teams are changing it up, which may explain the length of games these days. I mean, despite the efforts of MLB administrators, the games are longer than ever. The length of time between pitches seems to have extended quite a bit, with pitchers taking a very long time getting signs and batters stepping out because of it.

It seems that the time between pitches is averaging more than 1 minute. With nearly 200 pitches pitched per game, you do the math. This doesn't include breaks between innings, trips to the mound etc.

It also seems that I'm seeing more long counts, more foul balls with 2 strikes and more pitching changes. In fact batters are now trained specifically to make the pitcher throw more pitches. I wouldn't be surprised if pitches are well above 200 per game in some instances.

I was at a game in SF this year that went over 4 hours. We left at the 4 hour point in order to catch the train. The game was still in the 9th inning. The final score was 9-6.

Baseball used to be routinely faster than football. But football games have actually gotten a bit faster. Games used to go about 3.5 hours. Now they are closer to 3 much of the time. So actually baseball games are longer than football games now much to the chagrin of MLB and viewers.
Speed the game up?

Easy - put a serious clock on the pitchers and disallow stepping out of the box by hitters.

The other rule change I would like to see - eliminate exaggerated shifts.

What we will see (and I am happy to say goodbye to these temporary rules): no more Manfred runner to start extra innings and the seven inning doubleheader games. And, of course, the DH is almost certainly coming to the NL (unfortunate but inevitable).
Big C
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Always wondered: if you're going to go down the slippery slope of having a DH, why not just have a separate fielding unit and a separate hitting unit. Fans would get to see the best fielders and the best hitters! Players union would go along: more jobs.

The "baseball purists" are a thing of the past anyway, aren't they? Football players stopped going both ways decades ago.
71Bear
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Big C said:


Always wondered: if you're going to go down the slippery slope of having a DH, why not just have a separate fielding unit and a separate hitting unit. Fans would get to see the best fielders and the best hitters! Players union would go along: more jobs.

The "baseball purists" are a thing of the past anyway, aren't they? Football players stopped going both ways decades ago.
And then came a guy who turned the baseball world upside down. His name: Ohtani.

A pitcher who can hit or an outfielder who can pitch? Which one is he?

That is what the game needs. More Ohtani's. Of course, there is only one……..



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