The thing that the article pointed out is how dramatically different the college situation is for those entering college now. UO isn't the only one doing it. UW and the AZ schools have been mining CA for kids who'll pay out of state tuition for years.

Back in my day if your choice was between the CSU schools or UW, AZ, ASU or Colorado, if you could afford it you'd go out of state. Now, the students that can't get into top tier UC's are looking elsewhere. Seems reasonable to me. Would I rather have gone to UCR, Merced or UO? I shudder to think it but I could understand wanted to choose Eugene. The one thing that I have a BIG problem with is paying $150K for that parchment.

Nobel Prize winners currently on staff: University of Colorado = 11, Cal = 9. Granted, this is only one metric, but no one should be getting their heads up their ass about this whole issue.

ducky23;841905687 said:

---

I've said it once, and I'll say it again; there is nothing worse than a norcal Oregon student. nothing. I really don't have too much against Oregon kids who choose to go to Oregon. They are in-state and a lot of these students, financially, may not have too many other options.

Norcal kids who go to Oregon are a completely different matter. These kids are paying private school type tuition to get an education they can get at DVC.

So in my experience, norcal kids who go to Oregon are mostly spoiled, lazy, douchebag, rich kids who are just looking for a party school and having mommy and daddy foot the bill.

There is no other justification to go to Oregon, unless you are one of those few who might be looking to get a sports comm degree.

pathetic.

---

Get off your high horse. We have three kids who we put through college; two Bears and a Duck. The Duck would have loved to have gone to Cal, but couldn't get in. Sorry he qualifies as a lazy "douchebag" in your estimation. His second choice was always to go to a Pac-10 school, as that was the environment he wanted. He had a great four years in Eugene. I'm not at all worried about his future, he'll do fine. College choice is not a measure of future success, as you know. But really, your post comes off pretty strong on kids who would die to go to Cal, (and likely make it through just fine) but have zero chance of getting in. And our son grew up living and dying on the Cal sports, and the Pac-10. He wanted to go to college that had that. California State schools like SDSU and San Jose State weren't in his sights. So, should I have paid for a Catholic/Jesuit school? (....Nope, not catholic). JC wasn't what he wanted to do at that point.

That meant going out of state for us, and him. He checked out all 4 Northwest schools. He was never going to go to either Arizona school. Oregon is an easy drive, the weather sucks, but he enjoyed his college experience. Having been able to attend a few Rose Bowls and a NC game was frosting on the cake. Memories most Cal people would kill for...
And yet he'll be sitting in Memorial this fall, rooting hard for the Bears, as they were always his favorite team.

So where do you suggest he should have gone?
And don't mention Colorado. CU makes Oregon look cheap right now (we know many friends with kids going to Boulder), and CU is taking kids Oregon wont. I know kids being denied at Oregon, but getting in to Boulder, and these are kids with below a 3.0 average. Whoever thinks Colorado hasn't sold out for the California money is mistaken. Since our son was accepted 5 years ago, out of state GPA requirements at Oregon have gone up considerably due to the overwhelming applications from Californians who are stymied by the UC system. At least Oregon seems to be trying to raise their standards. Oregon is obviously not Cal, but what is happening in California is allowing Oregon to get more academic kids. Comparing it ot DVC is a bit much, IMO.

Do you have kids? Good luck when application time rolls around. You'll see what I'm talking about. Just because you went to Cal doesn't mean your kids will have a snowball's chance in hell to get in.

when you cant beat them in football you make fun of their academics. the cal way. lol

this is like hs all over again. band geeks clowning on the popular kids.

sctawndawg;841905857 said:

---

this is like hs all over again. band geeks clowning on the popular kids.

---

It's nothing like HS and most of us have graduated from college. A very very good college and the geeks have inherited the earth. You're the $C fan, right? Figures you'd come up with that lame ass analogy.

DrDanger;841905847 said:

---

Get off your high horse. We have three kids who we put through college; two Bears and a Duck. The Duck would have loved to have gone to Cal, but couldn't get in. Sorry he qualifies as a lazy "douchebag" in your estimation. His second choice was always to go to a Pac-10 school, as that was the environment he wanted. He had a great four years in Eugene. I'm not at all worried about his future, he'll do fine. College choice is not a measure of future success, as you know. But really, your post comes off pretty strong on kids who would die to go to Cal, (and likely make it through just fine) but have zero chance of getting in. And our son grew up living and dying on the Cal sports, and the Pac-10. He wanted to go to college that had that. California State schools like SDSU and San Jose State weren't in his sights. So, should I have paid for a Catholic/Jesuit school? (....Nope, not catholic). JC wasn't what he wanted to do at that point.

That meant going out of state for us, and him. He checked out all 4 Northwest schools. He was never going to go to either Arizona school. Oregon is an easy drive, the weather sucks, but he enjoyed his college experience. Having been able to attend a few Rose Bowls and a NC game was frosting on the cake. Memories most Cal people would kill for...
And yet he'll be sitting in Memorial this fall, rooting hard for the Bears, as they were always his favorite team.

So where do you suggest he should have gone?
And don't mention Colorado. CU makes Oregon look cheap right now (we know many friends with kids going to Boulder), and CU is taking kids Oregon wont. I know kids being denied at Oregon, but getting in to Boulder, and these are kids with below a 3.0 average. Whoever thinks Colorado hasn't sold out for the California money is mistaken. Since our son was accepted 5 years ago, out of state GPA requirements at Oregon have gone up considerably due to the overwhelming applications from Californians who are stymied by the UC system. At least Oregon seems to be trying to raise their standards. Oregon is obviously not Cal, but what is happening in California is allowing Oregon to get more academic kids. Comparing it ot DVC is a bit much, IMO.

Do you have kids? Good luck when application time rolls around. You'll see what I'm talking about. Just because you went to Cal doesn't mean your kids will have a snowball's chance in hell to get in.

---

I don't want to argue with you too much since I can see this is very personal for you; but if it were my kid I would tell him/her to go to the school where you are going to grow most as a person, where your mind will be enriched, where you will be surrounded by other intelligent students with diverse opinions and ideas, a college that will prepare you best for life. If Oregon was that school for your child, so be it. But choosing a school simply because its a pac-10 school seems somewhat suspect to me. I know we all love college sports here, but isn't college really about other things?

And if it was my child who desperately wanted to go to Cal, I would have told him/her to go to DVC, study your ass off and then transfer to Cal after 1 or 2 years. Any kid who truly has the desire to go to Cal CAN go to Cal if they are willing to put in the work.

sctawndawg;841905857 said:

---

when you cant beat them in football you make fun of their academics. the cal way. lol

this is like hs all over again. band geeks clowning on the popular kids.

---

Should I bring up Stanford: you can't beat them in football and you definitely can't beat them in academics. Those band geeks eat your lunch in all ways. Just be glad they aren't located in socal, otherwise they'd be compared to you much more often ... and lets face, it they'd win most of the comparisons.

Strangely, picturing the Stanford band geeks upstaging USC has cause me to feel some pity for SC. But ... you reap what you sew.

ducky23;841905863 said:

---

I don't want to argue with you too much since I can see this is very personal for you; but if it were my kid I would tell him/her to go to the school where you are going to grow most as a person, where your mind will be enriched, where you will be surrounded by other intelligent students with diverse opinions and ideas, a college that will prepare you best for life. If Oregon was that school for your child, so be it. But choosing a school simply because its a pac-10 school seems somewhat suspect to me. I know we all love college sports here, but isn't college really about other things?

And if it was my child who desperately wanted to go to Cal, I would have told him/her to go to DVC, study your ass off and then transfer to Cal after 1 or 2 years. Any kid who truly has the desire to go to Cal CAN go to Cal if they are willing to put in the work.

---

He had a great 4 years, with a good all around College experience. He grew very much as a person, and is no longer a douchebag. Thanks.

Get over yourself.

DrDanger;841905866 said:

---

He grew very much as a person, and is no longer a douchebag. Thanks.

---

That is one of the funniest retorts in a long time.

DrDanger;841905866 said:

---

He had a great 4 years, with a good all around College experience. He grew very much as a person, and is no longer a douchebag. Thanks.

Get over yourself.

---

:rimshot

If it's between Merced and Oregon for my kid, they are going to Merced. If they want to go to a "better" school than they should earn it. I'm not going to pay out-of-state tuition because my kid can't top UC Merced.

You think I'm tough? My parents were real clear with me - if I didn't get into Cal or UCLA I was going to Cal State San Bernardino and living at home. UC Santa Barbara was out of the question. I scraped into Cal (turned down UCLA) and that's the way it is.

sctawndawg;841905857 said:

---

when you cant beat them in football you make fun of their academics. the cal way. lol

this is like hs all over again. band geeks clowning on the popular kids.

---

When the Dean of your Engineering school has to blatantly cheat and lie to get a higher ranking in the USN&WR's rankings, you'd better have a great football team so nobody notices....

Quote:

---

This might seem like a straightforward question, but it's anything but when you add in the politics of rankings. USC's Viterbi School of Engineering maintains a list of 34 faculty members it says are in the academy. And when reporting to U.S. News & World Report, which uses NAE members on the faculty as one criterion in its rankings of top engineering graduate schools (where USC landed at No. 7), Southern California claimed 30 members.

But according to the National Academy of Engineering, USC has only 22 members on its faculty.

---

Quote:

---

Then, when Inside Higher Ed provided USC with a list of 17 of the 34 supposed faculty members who did not appear to be full-time faculty members after all, USC said it was reviewing its procedures for counting, and had informed U.S. News of a possible problem.

---

You can go on to read the rest of the article which basically shows USC fudged the numbers on purpose to get a higher ranking....either that, or the Dean was so fu*king stupid he didn't know the rules......you decide. Thank God there is no Trojanian.....

USC riggs the rankings

Nice reply and couldnt agree with you more. Go Ducks!

Dr Danger hits the nail on the head when he asks if Ducky has kids and has faced the pain of watching when a son who's a lifelong Cal Fan realizes there's no shot of getting in. We toured UW and UO along with several small NW schools over the summer. My son really liked UO because it's roughly half the enrollment of UW. Like Danger's son, my son loves big-time college athletics, and would like to attend a PAC-12 school, or maybe UT Austin if he gets in. And some other knucklehead said he'd force his kid to choose UC Merced over CU or Oregon. I've met several highly successful andinteresting Boulder, UO, UW, and even a few UA grads. I DO draw the line at ASU, although one of the most brilliant engineers I've met did undergrad and grad work there. Basically, I'll be happy if he ends up at many of the schools douchebags like Ducky regularly trash. It's not only unbecoming to watch, but frankly, smells a little bit like when Furdies gloat knowing that, given the chance, probably 80% of this board would've gone to Palo Alto. I mean, why would somebody turn down MIT for Cal Engineering knowing they'd end up with less debt after superior financial aid? Same thing for even Pomona College. Don't get me wrong - I love Cal, and sincerely believe in the uniqueness of the Berkeley experience. Let's not kid ourselves - the budget cuts, difficulty of graduating in 4 years, and lack of financial options for upper-middle class kids is driving a lot of top students to USC and other schools that were once well below our academic radar. Makes me very sad.

Wow, I really hate it when Cal fans sound like elitists.

It's one thing to be proud of our school's rank (which is fine in my books), but it's another to bash on other schools.

I almost applied to UO out of high school because I knew I would get in for sure and I would have had a great college experience there. College sports played a huge part in my decision because as most students Ive met from schools with no BCS teams have shown me - having no big-time sports programs sucks. There is no unifying thing on-campus to unite the student population.

Rankings is one thing but honestly, I think it is lame for someone to choose a school based on rankings. You can get a great education wherever you go, but you can't get the opportunity to watch your school's football team play everywhere.

I'm the knucklehead, juarez. But honestly, you folks that are talking up UO over lower tier CA state schools are acting like the cost is the same. If you want to ignore the cost that is fine for you. Must be nice. I look at colleges as a value proposition. What is the cost and what is the value of the education. If my kid gets into Ivy League or close then I am fine with paying for that. I'm not going to pay for UO or CU (which my father went to in a different era) when UC Merced is available at a fraction of the cost.

Who is being elitist? You guys act like there is something wrong with a UC Merced degree. Or that I'm supposed to pony up an extra $100k so my kid can go to 5 college football games a year. Seriously, if that is the driving force behind my kids educational decision then I'll make the decision real easy and send him to San Diego St. The real news is that 5 years into your work career nobody cares if the degree says Oregon or Merced or San Diego St. I have plenty of successful friends with no college degree. What is your work ethic? Because my kids are not ENTITLED to a rah, rah, college experience. They are going to have to earn it. Just like I did. Just like they will have to earn things in real life.

juarezbear;841905918 said:

---

Dr Danger hits the nail on the head when he asks if Ducky has kids and has faced the pain of watching when a son who's a lifelong Cal Fan realizes there's no shot of getting in. We toured UW and UO along with several small NW schools over the summer. My son really liked UO because it's roughly half the enrollment of UW. Like Danger's son, my son loves big-time college athletics, and would like to attend a PAC-12 school, or maybe UT Austin if he gets in. And some other knucklehead said he'd force his kid to choose UC Merced over CU or Oregon. I've met several highly successful andinteresting Boulder, UO, UW, and even a few UA grads. I DO draw the line at ASU, although one of the most brilliant engineers I've met did undergrad and grad work there. Basically, I'll be happy if he ends up at many of the schools douchebags like Ducky regularly trash. It's not only unbecoming to watch, but frankly, smells a little bit like when Furdies gloat knowing that, given the chance, probably 80% of this board would've gone to Palo Alto. I mean, why would somebody turn down MIT for Cal Engineering knowing they'd end up with less debt after superior financial aid? Same thing for even Pomona College. Don't get me wrong - I love Cal, and sincerely believe in the uniqueness of the Berkeley experience. Let's not kid ourselves - the budget cuts, difficulty of graduating in 4 years, and lack of financial options for upper-middle class kids is driving a lot of top students to USC and other schools that were once well below our academic radar. Makes me very sad.

---

+ 1000.
Our son would go to Cal in a heartbeat. He has outstanding grades etc. The barrier to entry @ Cal and other UC's is so high that we are considering other options for his education. We are looking at UW (his grandmother is an alum) and UO. He has considered the JC route but nixed it. This is his life and we fully support his decision. He is eligible for UO's Honor's College (smaller class sizes and guaranteed enrollment for his first 2 years) which virtually guarantee his graduating in 4 years or less. To listen to some in this thread makes me sick. Grow up.

dajo9;841905935 said:

---

I'm the knucklehead, juarez. But honestly, you folks that are talking up UO over lower tier CA state schools are acting like the cost is the same. If you want to ignore the cost that is fine for you. Must be nice. I look at colleges as a value proposition. What is the cost and what is the value of the education. If my kid gets into Ivy League or close then I am fine with paying for that. I'm not going to pay for UO or CU (which my father went to in a different era) when UC Merced is available at a fraction of the cost.

Who is being elitist? You guys act like there is something wrong with a UC Merced degree. Or that I'm supposed to pony up an extra $100k so my kid can go to 5 college football games a year. Seriously, if that is the driving force behind my kids educational decision then I'll make the decision real easy and send him to San Diego St. The real news is that 5 years into your work career nobody cares if the degree says Oregon or Merced or San Diego St. I have plenty of successful friends with no college degree. What is your work ethic? Because my kids are not ENTITLED to a rah, rah, college experience. They are going to have to earn it. Just like I did. Just like they will have to earn things in real life.

---

Exactly what dajo said. If you read my original post, I made it clear that in state Oregon kids going to Oregon is fine by me. How is that being elitist? I actually still believe in the public school system. However, what I think is ridiculous is paying private school tuition for a public school. If you want to pay 150k or whatever it is so your son can have a good football team, that's fine. However the same kid could go to any state school for less and get the same education. Unless you guys want to bash state schools and then in the same breath call others elitist. You act like if a kid doesn't get into a uc there are no other options. There are cheaper and in some cases better options out there. All I'm saying is that if you're going to pay that much more for an Oregon education, you better have a much more compelling reason to attend than to say you just wanted to go to a PAC-12 school. If I told my parents that they would have laughed at me. But I guess that's just me.

ducky23;841905863 said:

---

And if it was my child who desperately wanted to go to Cal, I would have told him/her to go to DVC, study your ass off and then transfer to Cal after 1 or 2 years. Any kid who truly has the desire to go to Cal CAN go to Cal if they are willing to put in the work.

---

this. that's what I did. Didn't even have to "study my ass off," more like pull my head out of my ass to lap the community college competition.

oskirules;841905767 said:

---

I'm not into bashing other schools within the conference or outside pf it. I think it's just poor taste and makes you look elitist. Football programs, on the other hand, are fair game.

---

MolecularBear007;841905805 said:

---

I had to recheck the url to make sure I wasn't on the Furd site.

Stop bashing other schools' academic 'prestige' (whatever that means), you are making us look bad.

---

Adrian The Cal Bear;841905926 said:

---

Wow, I really hate it when Cal fans sound like elitists.

It's one thing to be proud of our school's rank (which is fine in my books), but it's another to bash on other schools.

I almost applied to UO out of high school because I knew I would get in for sure and I would have had a great college experience there. College sports played a huge part in my decision because as most students Ive met from schools with no BCS teams have shown me - having no big-time sports programs sucks. There is no unifying thing on-campus to unite the student population.

Rankings is one thing but honestly, I think it is lame for someone to choose a school based on rankings. You can get a great education wherever you go, but you can't get the opportunity to watch your school's football team play everywhere.

---

petalumabear;841905942 said:

---

+ 1000.
Our son would go to Cal in a heartbeat. He has outstanding grades etc. The barrier to entry @ Cal and other UC's is so high that we are considering other options for his education. We are looking at UW (his grandmother is an alum) and UO. He has considered the JC route but nixed it. This is his life and we fully support his decision. He is eligible for UO's Honor's College (smaller class sizes and guaranteed enrollment for his first 2 years) which virtually guarantee his graduating in 4 years or less. To listen to some in this thread makes me sick. Grow up.

---

The haughty elitism is not becoming. The University of Oregon provides an excellent education with significantly smaller class sizes and more classes taught by professors than the UCs. They have a great program of Freshman Interest Groups to help integrate new students. A quality athletic program should not be discounted, since at most colleges big time athletics is an anchor to social life that keeps students on campus after hours and on weekends and thereby adds to the college experience. (I firmly believe that most of the "education" at and benefit of a college occurs outside of the classroom, and that the UC's current exploration of on-line or distance learning, apparently in an attempt to emulate Kaplan University, will deprive future students of the benefits we enjoyed.)

And for those of you who want to make ridiculous comparisons with CSUs or community colleges, Oregon is one of only 61 member schools (in two countries) in the highly prestigious Association of American Universities (AAU). http://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=5476
No CSUs or community colleges have been invited to join.

Among their alumni is the current chancellor of the Southern Branch. Our own Robert Berdahl once taught there.

The people I know who graduated from both Oregon & Washington are very intelligent, creative thinkers who excel in their chosen professions. Cal turns away more 4.0 students than it accepts, and thousands of bright, qualified students do not get admitted. Davis and Santa Cruz are great schools, but they're not for everyone.

ducky23;841905947 said:

---

Exactly what dajo said. If you read my original post, I made it clear that in state Oregon kids going to Oregon is fine by me. How is that being elitist? I actually still believe in the public school system. However, what I think is ridiculous is paying private school tuition for a public school. If you want to pay 150k or whatever it is so your son can have a good football team, that's fine. However the same kid could go to any state school for less and get the same education. Unless you guys want to bash state schools and then in the same breath call others elitist. You act like if a kid doesn't get into a uc there are no other options. There are cheaper and in some cases better options out there. All I'm saying is that if you're going to pay that much more for an Oregon education, you better have a much more compelling reason to attend than to say you just wanted to go to a PAC-12 school. If I told my parents that they would have laughed at me. But I guess that's just me.

---

Yes ducky, it's great being called elitist by the same people who are bashing the lower tier UC's and Cal State schools as unworthy and then these same people are going to pay private school tuition for a public school education out-of-state.

The common theme among the UO promoters here is the avoidance of the cost discussion.

ducky23;841905947 said:

---

Exactly what dajo said. If you read my original post, I made it clear that in state Oregon kids going to Oregon is fine by me. How is that being elitist? I actually still believe in the public school system. However, what I think is ridiculous is paying private school tuition for a public school. If you want to pay 150k or whatever it is so your son can have a good football team, that's fine. However the same kid could go to any state school for less and get the same education. Unless you guys want to bash state schools and then in the same breath call others elitist. You act like if a kid doesn't get into a uc there are no other options. There are cheaper and in some cases better options out there. All I'm saying is that if you're going to pay that much more for an Oregon education, you better have a much more compelling reason to attend than to say you just wanted to go to a PAC-12 school. If I told my parents that they would have laughed at me. But I guess that's just me.

---

Whatever, I had two kids attend Cal. I understand the value of that, believe me. The third had a great experience elsewhere, and graduated in 4 years with a strong GPA. That's important to me as his parent. Don't preach about "compelling reasons", or "better options" or "value"...that's just your opinion. I don't think a State school would have been a better option for my son (it wasn't), based on the total experience he wanted and got at a Pac-12 state university. Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one.


Again, do you even have kids? If you don't and are planning on it someday, good luck. Lots of decisions, some choices...and sometimes lots of frustration too. But his going to go to Oregon was a great decision for him, thank you very much.

Vandalus;841905836 said:

---

Just to be clear - I wasn't saying it's a good choice. I'm saying that by the looks of the article, their football visibility is increasing their exposure and some kids are considering them when maybe they wouldn't before. If that's the only reason, it's totally uninformed and short sighted for sure. But I was just saying it sure would be cool to root for a school that won a rosebowl.

:headbang

---

I agree that you weren't saying it was a good choice. I don't think anyone on THIS board would say it's a good choice. I was just being rhetorical.

dajo9;841905956 said:

---

Yes ducky, it's great being called elitist by the same people who are bashing the lower tier UC's and Cal State schools as unworthy and then these same people are going to pay private school tuition for a public school education out-of-state.

The common theme among the UO promoters here is the avoidance of the cost discussion.

---

Not avoiding it.
I planned on it (college tuition), many many years ago. More people with kids ought to be doing the same.

And I never bashed any school here. I said my kid wanted a specific experience, and I was fortunate enough to help him with that. He more than appreciates that, (in spite of Ducky's claim he must be a "lazy, spoiled douchebag" because he decided on Oregon...) and hopefully will be able to do the same for his kids should he decide to have them.

Quote:

---

College sports played a huge part in my decision because as most students Ive met from schools with no BCS teams have shown me - having no big-time sports programs sucks. There is no unifying thing on-campus to unite the student population.

---

Really? I know nobody ever ignited a couch in response to an amazing student-run production of Hamlet, but there's plenty of other stuff besides big-time college sports that can make a college experience good (even not-so-big-time college sports).

Let me add my perspective to this thread. Ducky, it really sounds like you do not have kids and haven't had to face the real life decisions that happen--it's a tough 18 year ride with twists and turns and tons of REALITY. I am sure you had bad experiences with some Oregon students somewhere along the way and have good reason for your feelings about the school, but you have made some pretty brash generalizations. And the school has changed a ton in even in the last 5 years. Dajo I get the whole tough love thing, but I see paying for college and wedding as one of the great obligations in my life.

My own son would have loved to have gone to Cal. And if he had applied when I did, he would have got in. I was accepted at Cal with decent but not extraordinary grades and SAT (I think I was a 3.5 student with a 1400 SAT). My son is close to that. He applied to Cal, UCLA, UCSB, and Santa Cruz and didn't get in. He wanted it bad and we were all crushed. He would have been 4th generation Cal. It's a sad thing that a legacy is over. Sadder still that a good student and a bright kid can't get into a UC in this day after the taxes we have paid in all these years and the donations we've made. That so many out of state and international kids are in--but that is a long debate.

He looked at many other schools including NYU, UW, UO, and Vermont. He really liked UO as his next best choice. He likes the location, the vibe, the classes offered, the FIGs, and the access to nature. Football wasn't a part of his decision. Yes, there are better schools in the country, but UO has a lot to offer and as we all know, undergraduate school is what you make of it largely. If you are motivated and happy you will do well and comparable education at most schools. Is it cheap? No. But I saved his whole life and this is a happy parental obligation. And no school is cheap. NYU and UW would have been far more. He thanks me earnestly and honestly for this opportunity and for me paying his way. He is totally kind-hearted, curious kid that doesn't have a spoiled bone in his body.

We both wish he was a Bear. It's hard for me to stomach him as a Duck, but that's where he will be next fall as freshmen and I am proud of him and he is happy. This isn't my personal story blinding me to your argument, it's that my personal experience and a lot of effort/tough decisions has broadened my perspective.

Well said. As a 4th generation Cal grad married to a Duck, I would be thrilled if one of my sons wanted to go to Oregon. It's a good school that offers a great experience.

blungld;841905968 said:

---

Let me add my perspective to this thread. Ducky, it really sounds like you do not have kids and haven't had to face the real life decisions that happen--it's a tough 18 year ride with twists and turns and tons of REALITY. ...We both wish he was a Bear. It's hard for me to stomach him as a Duck, but that's where he will be next fall as freshmen and I am proud of him and he is happy. This isn't my personal story blinding me to your argument, it's that my personal experience and a lot of effort/tough decisions has broadened my perspective.

---

A heartfelt account, blungld, that is not uncommon. My daughter's grades and SAT were comparable to mine, but the office of admissions decided that our family wouldn't have 3 generations of Cal students. She chose Santa Cruz over Oregon, and college turned out to be great experience for her: she was an on-campus tour guide her last 2 1/2 years, made lifelong friends, spend the last 2 years living (with friends) in a house on a cul-de-sac just a block from the beach, and was selected to be one of three student speakers at her graduation.

And yet, she missed many attributes of the college experience that we take for granted. The campus, nestled in a redwood forest with views of Monterey Bay, is beautiful but desolate on weekends. There is no school spirit. (I'm willing to bet $10,000 of Mitt Romney's money that there won't ever be Slug board as dynamic as this one.) There is no "town" near the campus, as the cute and charming downtown is about a mile away. I met her at the downtown BART when she came to join us for a football game (I invited her once or twice a year so she could still enjoy college football), and as we walked through the campus on our way to the Durant Hotel, she looked at Telegraph and said she missed the opportunity to grab a quick meal, have drink, or go shopping so conveniently.

In the end, it worked out fine. I think (knowing her as I do) she would have been happy at Oregon too, but for different reasons. She would have fit in fine at Davis (though she didn't think so, refusing to apply), but Irvine, Riverside, and Merced would have been disasters for her. (So would Southern Branch, which is far too close to home, and to which I forbid my children from applying.) Choosing a campus is almost like choosing a spouse: there is no objective, universal standard; different students will find better "fits" at different schools. In the end, a high school senior needs to choose the college that will be the best "marriage," one in which he or she can will be happy and have more opportunities to expand on strengths, grow as a person, and realize potential.

southseasbear;841905971 said:

---

In the end, a high school senior needs to choose the college that will be the best "marriage," one in which he or she can will be happy and have more opportunities to expand on strengths, grow as a person, and realize potential.

---

Exactly...sometimes this works at an in-state school and sometimes it doesn't. To each their own.

Would it be elitist to say that the infiltration of UO with kids of Bears will definitely improve the quality of the school?

blungld;841905968 said:

---

Let me add my perspective to this thread. Ducky, it really sounds like you do not have kids and haven't had to face the real life decisions that happen--it's a tough 18 year ride with twists and turns and tons of REALITY. I am sure you had bad experiences with some Oregon students somewhere along the way and have good reason for your feelings about the school, but you have made some pretty brash generalizations. And the school has changed a ton in even in the last 5 years. Dajo I get the whole tough love thing, but I see paying for college and wedding as one of the great obligations in my life.

My own son would have loved to have gone to Cal. And if he had applied when I did, he would have got in. I was accepted at Cal with decent but not extraordinary grades and SAT (I think I was a 3.5 student with a 1400 SAT). My son is close to that. He applied to Cal, UCLA, UCSB, and Santa Cruz and didn't get in. He wanted it bad and we were all crushed. He would have been 4th generation Cal. It's a sad thing that a legacy is over. Sadder still that a good student and a bright kid can't get into a UC in this day after the taxes we have paid in all these years and the donations we've made. That so many out of state and international kids are in--but that is a long debate.

He looked at many other schools including NYU, UW, UO, and Vermont. He really liked UO as his next best choice. He likes the location, the vibe, the classes offered, the FIGs, and the access to nature. Football wasn't a part of his decision. Yes, there are better schools in the country, but UO has a lot to offer and as we all know, undergraduate school is what you make of it largely. If you are motivated and happy you will do well and comparable education at most schools. Is it cheap? No. But I saved his whole life and this is a happy parental obligation. And no school is cheap. NYU and UW would have been far more. He thanks me earnestly and honestly for this opportunity and for me paying his way. He is totally kind-hearted, curious kid that doesn't have a spoiled bone in his body.

We both wish he was a Bear. It's hard for me to stomach him as a Duck, but that's where he will be next fall as freshmen and I am proud of him and he is happy. This isn't my personal story blinding me to your argument, it's that my personal experience and a lot of effort/tough decisions has broadened my perspective.

---

I have one policy on this board; I do not argue with Ken Montgomery and I do not argue with the creator(s) of Bear Territory. These people were a huge part of my childhood and had a tremendous influence on my Cal fandom. So whatever they say must be right and all that is holy. So I concede that I was misguided and totally off base in my assertions.

As an aside, do you ever show your son clips of your roast duck segment, I think he would find that quite funny.



Bear Territory is my favorite TV show of all time. Do you have DVD's of all your shows? I would definitely be willing to buy them.

blungld;841905968 said:

---

Dajo I get the whole tough love thing, but I see paying for college and wedding as one of the great obligations in my life.

---

I'll one up you on that. I view paying for college and a wedding as a real joy (if I stay on track). Not something my parents were able to do and something I really want and am planning to do.

I just weight the value proposition more than others do and others weight the connection aspect more. Like I said, I would happily pay top dollar for a top end school. For less I plan to pay less - I don't think of it as tough love (my toddlers are spoiled), I think of it as not being wasteful and teaching as much. For the same reason I drive a Prius when I can afford to drive something much more emotionally exhilerating.

But I'm not trying to criticize others or their decisions. Just explaining how I see it.

dajo9;841905985 said:

---

I'll one up you on that. I view paying for college and a wedding as a real joy (if I stay on track).

Like I said, I would happily pay top dollar for a top end school. For less I plan to pay less

---

When is cost not a legitimate component in college selection? College choice a major life decision being made by an adult and hence cost should be considered (regardless of who is paying). Would an adult not consider the cost in buying a new car or house? Also, I've seen far too many people take on huge education debt without considering their earning potential after college (ability to repay). It really doesn't help them in the long run.

Quote:

---

My own son would have loved to have gone to Cal. And if he had applied when I did, he would have got in.

---

Did the UC's drop the number of freshmen they admit? No, they've worked to increase the numbers of students they can admit since the 90's.

[QUOTE=] I was accepted at Cal with decent but not extraordinary grades and SAT (I think I was a 3.5 student with a 1400 SAT).

---

During that intervening time period, the SATs have been revised to increase the average score and GPAs have trended higher with AP class scoring.

[QUOTE=] He wanted it bad and we were all crushed. He would have been 4th generation Cal. It's a sad thing that a legacy is over. Sadder still that a good student and a bright kid can't get into a UC in this day after the taxes we have paid in all these years and the donations we've made.

---

Does the UC consider where a students parents went? No, they never have. The UC's as a public institution (if I recall correctly) are pretty transparent about the GPA ranges and SAT ranges they admit. Exceptions are made, but those exceptions are usually clearly indicated in the literature, and if you don't qualify as one, the previous year(s) admission ranges are your best guide.

Look I'm sorry I'm being so harsh, but you've completely ignored the data an information, and you're whining about it. That just isn't right.

running bear;841906019 said:

---

Did the UC's drop the number of freshmen they admit? No, they've worked to increase the numbers of students they can admit since the 90's.



During that intervening time period, the SATs have been revised to increase the average score and GPAs have trended higher with AP class scoring.



Does the UC consider where a students parents went? No, they never have. The UC's as a public institution (if I recall correctly) are pretty transparent about the GPA ranges and SAT ranges they admit. Exceptions are made, but those exceptions are usually clearly indicated in the literature, and if you don't qualify as one, the previous year(s) admission ranges are your best guide.

Look I'm sorry I'm being so harsh, but you've completely ignored the data an information, and you're whining about it. That just isn't right.

---

Thanks for your analysis and cold hard facts.
But the real fact here is, the UC system (and Cal) is changing. It isn't what many knew it to be. Maybe that's better, but I don't particularly think so.