BobbyGBear;841965132 said:

---

^This is exactly the kind of garbage that makes BI such a shithole. I mean, your name is Tedhead03 and you've completely turned your back on and insulted your team and your coach (and your namesake) 5 games into the season. Nicely done.

I don't mean to single you out, but it really makes me sick to see so many people like you relentlessly beating a dead horse, or at least taking pleasure in beating the life out of a terminal horse, especially when it's your own horse, a horse that brought you here in the first place. No respect, and complete disregard for history.

Cal deserves a classier forum than this.

---

I don't mean to single you out, but this is the same thought process that landed Penn State in the state they are in today. Tedford is a man who gets paid very well to coach. He is not doing what he is doing out of love for Cal football. His performance has been so horrid that you have people with his name as a handle calling for his termination.

The horse is not dead yet. Once he is fired, then I promise you the comments will stop. Until then, Tedford's coaching over the last five games has been an embarrassment.

MolecularBear007;841965174 said:

---

I don't mean to single you out, but this is the same thought process that landed Penn State in the state they are in today. Tedford is a man who gets paid very well to coach. He is not doing what he is doing out of love for Cal football. His performance has been so horrid that you have people with his name as a handle calling for his termination.

The horse is not dead yet. Once he is fired, then I promise you the comments will stop. Until then, Tedford's coaching over the last five games has been an embarrassment.

---

I disagree with the statement that I bolded for emphasis. Many posters on this board will go on beating this horse even after it has died because they get their jollies from it. Those select few get grim satisfaction in continuing to drag everyone through their misery.

We saw it with Gilbertson, with Holmoe, and we'll see it again with Tedford. So, when, inevitably, the next coach starts to make mistakes, the references to Tedford will start all over, again.

BobbyGBear;841965132 said:

---

^This is exactly the kind of garbage that makes BI such a shithole. I mean, your name is Tedhead03 and you've completely turned your back on and insulted your team and your coach (and your namesake) 5 games into the season. Nicely done.

I don't mean to single you out, but it really makes me sick to see so many people like you relentlessly beating a dead horse, or at least taking pleasure in beating the life out of a terminal horse, especially when it's your own horse, a horse that brought you here in the first place. No respect, and complete disregard for history.

Cal deserves a classier forum than this.

---

Haha. If you don't like what we write, go to some of the other forums. So you don't care if someone is tearing apart our football program. I did not say he is doing it on purpose, but it is happening. You don't mind a gifted athlete riding the pine because of some ridiculous notion by the HC. You don't mind recruiting the worse in the PAC12 in the near future. I am sure you love Cal, but may not really care about football.

MolecularBear007;841965174 said:

---

I don't mean to single you out, but this is the same thought process that landed Penn State in the state they are in today. Tedford is a man who gets paid very well to coach. He is not doing what he is doing out of love for Cal football. His performance has been so horrid that you have people with his name as a handle calling for his termination.

The horse is not dead yet. Once he is fired, then I promise you the comments will stop. Until then, Tedford's coaching over the last five games has been an embarrassment.

---

Comparing our program to the "Penn State state they are in" is ridiculous, completely different set of occurances, legal, moral etc. The HC has a 80+ win total and a 53 defeat total...winningest coach in Cal history and has recorded winning seasons 9 out of the past 10 years. Yes the first 5 games have been clearly substandard and not acceptable, but let the entire season finish to then clamor for his termination. By the way, having stayed fairly close to the program I would venture among the key donors and majority of the Grid Club members and I am one, Coach will get one more year regardless of how we finish.

FiatSlug;841965192 said:

---

I disagree with the statement that I bolded for emphasis. Many posters on this board will go on beating this horse even after it has died because they get their jollies from it. Those select few get grim satisfaction in continuing to drag everyone through their misery.

We saw it with Gilbertson, with Holmoe, and we'll see it again with Tedford. So, when, inevitably, the next coach starts to make mistakes, the references to Tedford will start all over, again.

---

I think you are projecting there. I have never read a comment attacking the personal integrity of Tedford or any of the other coaches you listed.

In reality, you will get references to this horrid season as a comparison. If the next coach punts down ten w/ six minutes to go, doesn't use a star RB, and keeps a QB in way beyond what is reasonable, then I think it's appropriate to say he is pulling a "Tedford." How is that beating a dead horse?

4thGenCal;841965202 said:

---

Comparing our program to the "Penn State state they are in" is ridiculous, completely different set of occurances, legal, moral etc. The HC has a 80+ win total and a 53 defeat total...winningest coach in Cal history and has recorded winning seasons 9 out of the past 10 years. Yes the first 5 games have been clearly substandard and not acceptable, but let the entire season finish to then clamor for his termination. By the way, having stayed fairly close to the program I would venture among the key donors and majority of the Grid Club members and I am one, Coach will get one more year regardless of how we finish.

---

:rollinglaugh:
I have to admit, you are the reason I hate 6-6 finishes and prefer 2-10 finishes. The pain is much quicker this way.

4thGenCal;841965202 said:

---

Comparing our program to the "Penn State state they are in" is ridiculous, completely different set of occurances, legal, moral etc. The HC has a 80+ win total and a 53 defeat total...winningest coach in Cal history and has recorded winning seasons 9 out of the past 10 years. Yes the first 5 games have been clearly substandard and not acceptable, but let the entire season finish to then clamor for his termination. By the way, having stayed fairly close to the program I would venture among the key donors and majority of the Grid Club members and I am one, Coach will get one more year regardless of how we finish.

---

We're headed for 2-10. After this season, his conference record will be under .500 over the last 5 years. The sooner we move on the better.

4thGenCal;841965202 said:

---

Comparing our program to the "Penn State state they are in" is ridiculous, completely different set of occurances, legal, moral etc. The HC has a 80+ win total and a 53 defeat total...winningest coach in Cal history and has recorded winning seasons 9 out of the past 10 years. Yes the first 5 games have been clearly substandard and not acceptable, but let the entire season finish to then clamor for his termination. By the way, having stayed fairly close to the program I would venture among the key donors and majority of the Grid Club members and I am one, Coach will get one more year regardless of how we finish.

---

I commend you for misquoting. I

"This is the same thought process that landed Penn State in the state they are in today." Coaches are not the program or the school. If they suck, the fans will let them know. They should not be idolized.

If your hunch is true, the more reason to clamor for Tedford's early exit this year.

MolecularBear007;841965214 said:

---

I commend you for misquoting. I

"This is the same thought process that landed Penn State in the state they are in today." Coaches are not the program or the school. If they suck, the fans will let them know. They should not be idolized.

If your hunch is true, the more reason to clamor for Tedford's early exit this year.

---

Sorry. But 4thGenCal comes off as slightly pompous/arrogant. He's a legacy that hangs out with the donors as well as being a member od the Grid Club, so of course that out trumps our opinions. " Oh diddy, I'm going to meet Biff at the tennis club today "

davetdds;841965223 said:

---

Sorry. But 4thGenCal comes off as slightly pompous/arrogant. He's a legacy that hangs out with the donors as well as being a member od the Grid Club, so of course that out trumps our opinions. " Oh diddy, I'm going to meet Biff at the tennis club today "

---

yeah.....wasn't he in animal house?.....pick either one

MolecularBear007;841965205 said:

---

I think you are projecting there. I have never read a comment attacking the personal integrity of Tedford or any of the other coaches you listed.

In reality, you will get references to this horrid season as a comparison. If the next coach punts down ten w/ six minutes to go, doesn't use a star RB, and keeps a QB in way beyond what is reasonable, then I think it's appropriate to say he is pulling a "Tedford." How is that beating a dead horse?

---

I am not projecting anything. Nor am I necessarily claiming that folks are attacking the personal integrity of Tedford, Gilbertson or Holmoe (even though I have read stuff on this board and its predecessors that did just that).

It doesn't take an attack on a coach's integrity to go about beating on that coach for failures in leadership, poor game management, questioning his overall administrative skills and whether or not he cares about his players. We've seen that kind of attack on Tedford repeatedly.

We've seen that kind of attack on Holmoe, repeatedly; even after he resigned after the 2001 Arizona game. Gilbertson, not so much because he was fired in 1995. But the attacks on "the fat man" and "the donut king" have been known to come up from time to time.

Same garbage will happen with Tedford, because he's an easy target for the impotent rage of a lot of keyboard jockeys.

FiatSlug;841965247 said:

---

I am not projecting anything. Nor am I necessarily claiming that folks are attacking the personal integrity of Tedford, Gilbertson or Holmoe (even though I have read stuff on this board and its predecessors that did just that).

It doesn't take an attack on a coach's integrity to go about beating on that coach for failures in leadership, poor game management, questioning his overall administrative skills and whether or not he cares about his players. We've seen that kind of attack on Tedford repeatedly.

We've seen that kind of attack on Holmoe, repeatedly; even after he resigned after the 2001 Arizona game. Gilbertson, not so much because he was fired in 1995. But the attacks on "the fat man" and "the donut king" have been known to come up from time to time.

Same garbage will happen with Tedford, because he's an easy target for the impotent rage of a lot of keyboard jockeys.

---

Citations or....

FiatSlug;841965247 said:

---

I am not projecting anything. Nor am I necessarily claiming that folks are attacking the personal integrity of Tedford, Gilbertson or Holmoe (even though I have read stuff on this board and its predecessors that did just that).

It doesn't take an attack on a coach's integrity to go about beating on that coach for failures in leadership, poor game management, questioning his overall administrative skills and whether or not he cares about his players. We've seen that kind of attack on Tedford repeatedly.

We've seen that kind of attack on Holmoe, repeatedly; even after he resigned after the 2001 Arizona game. Gilbertson, not so much because he was fired in 1995. But the attacks on "the fat man" and "the donut king" have been known to come up from time to time.

Same garbage will happen with Tedford, because he's an easy target for the impotent rage of a lot of keyboard jockeys.

---

On the contrary, personal attacks and insults against Holmoe were very rare. We all insulted his competence, but not too many people made serious accusations against him on a personal level.

There are a bit more "hate" against Gilbertson. The sentiment has been that he never put in much effort for the University, and he has taken the Cal job but has never in his heart left UDub. I wasn't around during Gilbertson days, so I have no knowledge of his tenure.

I didn't read all the comments but I'm sure many will agree that there's no way Tedford's contract gets bought out. Nobody is going to put up the money. It was hard enough just to raise the dough to save Cal baseball. A buyout of a contract only ensures Tedford getting the axe but the next guy could be a lot worse. Giving him a contract extension was such a huge mistake by Sandy but who could have predicted that he would burn out this way?

FiatSlug;841964745 said:

---

I guess you buy Wilner's calculation, then? Or are you throwing out that number for the purposes of stirring the pot?

If you read the 2007 and 2009 contract extensions (available at coacheshotseat.com) and do the calcs, then you realize that Wilner's figure is inflated. I calculate Tedford's per annum payoff at around $2.1 million, paid in monthly installments. That does not include annual Deferred Compensation payments, for which I am not certain that he would continue to collect after being fired.

---

It's funny that the contract renewal eliminates the "retention bonus", but then says that after early termination they'll still owe the retention bonus. You'd think lawyers are paid the big bucks to catch that kind of thing.

...

FiatSlug;841964745 said:

---

Further, I do not believe that he would collect a Stadium Renovation bonus. He collects that only if he's the head coach on the day of the first home game after completion. The project timeline itself and indeed the actual state of the project is such that it will not be complete until January 2013; December 2012 at the earliest.

---

Are the West Side improvements not complete?

BobbyGBear;841965132 said:

---

^This is exactly the kind of garbage that makes BI such a shithole. I mean, your name is Tedhead03 and you've completely turned your back on and insulted your team and your coach (and your namesake) 5 games into the season. Nicely done.

I don't mean to single you out, but it really makes me sick to see so many people like you relentlessly beating a dead horse, or at least taking pleasure in beating the life out of a terminal horse, especially when it's your own horse, a horse that brought you here in the first place. No respect, and complete disregard for history.

Cal deserves a classier forum than this.

---

I've got to admit that I had a good laugh at your horse analogy. You are very clearly a fan of another school having a bit of fun stirring the pot. Well done. We all entertain ourselves in our own ways.

FiatSlug;841965109 said:

---

SonofCalVa disagrees. I think he's disagreeing to stir the pot.

There's no way that Cal's Asst. Chancellor-Legal Affairs signs off on the contract if the University is not protected by the clause.

---

No need to "stir the pot" .. I just read the posting of the alleged contract language and it's pretty obvious that there's only a requirement that JT seek employment but no specification as to a particular position. Compensation from Cal to JT is only reduced for certain specified jobs.

As to Cal's Legal Eagle signing off ... ha ... <lawyer jokes not included here>.
Cal's Legal Eagle notwithstanding, lawyers make lots of "mistakes" for lots of reasons that aren't necessarily apparent. Oversight is often "overlooking" rather than "looking over'. A title does not confer competence.

FiatSlug;841965013 said:

---

I see your point, and I acknowledge the contractual stipulation.

The text of paragraph 21 of the 2007 contract extension reads, in part:

"The parties recognize that Coach has the duty to obtain other employment in mitigation of any damages he may sustain by virtue of the termination of this Employment Contract. It is expressly understood by the parties hereto that any payment so made to Coach will be reduced by any amounts received, or to be received at a later date, by Coach for rendition of services by Coach in a Head Coaching position at a college or university or in a head or assistant coaching position within the NFL, during the period of time in which Coach, pursuant to this Agreement would have been employed by the University if this contract had not been terminated."

I think this binds Tedford to look for employment in those positions stipulated where the University would receive a reduction in payments to Tedford for the remainder of the contract term.

I also think that this provides an opening for the University to negotiate with Tedford for a buyout of the remaining term should he fail to land employment in a stipulated position.

I don't think the University is as screwed as some people think it is.

---

I completely agree with the two sentences I bolded. If JT does not consent to a negotiation, insisting on being paid full salary through 2015, it will make him virtually unemployable elsewhere. Considering his past, I believe he will seek an opportunity to vindicate himself and will look for a rebuilding opportunity to reinstate the reputation he held 6 years ago.

FiatSlug;841965247 said:

---

I am not projecting anything. Nor am I necessarily claiming that folks are attacking the personal integrity of Tedford, Gilbertson or Holmoe (even though I have read stuff on this board and its predecessors that did just that).

It doesn't take an attack on a coach's integrity to go about beating on that coach for failures in leadership, poor game management, questioning his overall administrative skills and whether or not he cares about his players. We've seen that kind of attack on Tedford repeatedly.

We've seen that kind of attack on Holmoe, repeatedly; even after he resigned after the 2001 Arizona game. Gilbertson, not so much because he was fired in 1995. But the attacks on "the fat man" and "the donut king" have been known to come up from time to time.

Same garbage will happen with Tedford, because he's an easy target for the impotent rage of a lot of keyboard jockeys.

---

Many Cal fans are unforgiving in their contempt of failure. If JT leaves now, there will be Tedhead fans who will continue to say he was ready to turn the corner had we only stuck with him for another season or two; on the other hand, if he hangs on he will be remembered more for the collapse than the early success.

oskirules;841965289 said:

---

I didn't read all the comments but I'm sure many will agree that there's no way Tedford's contract gets bought out. Nobody is going to put up the money. It was hard enough just to raise the dough to save Cal baseball. A buyout of a contract only ensures Tedford getting the axe but the next guy could be a lot worse. Giving him a contract extension was such a huge mistake by Sandy but who could have predicted that he would burn out this way?

---

Baseball has little visibility. How many donors (big or small) attend games? In light of the debt incurred in the $321 million renovation (still incomplete, since nothing has happened on the West side) I think the school can't afford not to negotiate a buy out. If nothing is done, recruiting will suffer and attendance (along with revenue) will decline (if not plummet). We are in a better position to find a high quality coach now than in the next few years.

FlourBear;841965298 said:

---

Some people on here have been comparing Tedford to Gilbertson and Holmoe. Based on historical accomplishments, this is not appropriate - his hypothetical "firing" should be compared to that of Pappy Waldorf, Mike White, or Bruce Snyder.

I recall White was coming off a winning season but there were ethereal "ethical" issues surrounding his program that caused us to panic and get rid of him. There have been similar struggles involving law/ethics/rules/etc recently with the tree sitters preventing the facilities from being built. Also our great teams early in Tedford's era hit a wall because usc's unethical teams were allowed to run amuck for far too long without repercussions. And now that usc is out of the picture, we are unable to capitalize because we do not have the personell (tree sitters and legalities harmed recruiting) - our team has gaping holes at certain positions. In terms of "rules", we've had a large number of penalties (especially in the new Memorial) recently - the scorecard says 120 yds last game but it was more like 200+ considering some of the plays that were called back.

I recall Snyder was ran out of town because his teams were considered undisciplined and had too many penalties. The 1991 big game especially when we had 7 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties by the 3rd quarter against an extremely talented Furd team that had a future NFL hall of famer and several future NFL pro-bowlers. Also Snyder's inability to beat supposedly mediocre Furd teams was a concern. And to those of you on this forum with especially fragile egos who want to continue to pretend "it was all Bockrath's fault", I suggest you read Bear Backer Dave Newhouse's article "No Excuses for Cal's Boorish Behavior" (12/5/91) which captures the Cal fanbase's sentiments at the time:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19911205&id=VJczAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=2078,4378210

Waldorf's firing was a bit before my time. Anyone care to enlighten? All I know is it involved the 49ers, which conjures up Aaron Rodger's early departure because (according to him) he always dreamed of playing for the 49ers and they promised they would draft him (which turned out to be untrue). I think we all know what would've been in 2005 had Rodgers not been deceived.

Tedford has been a historic coach here so it will be a mistake to make knee-jerk decisions about him. Just like it was a mistake to listen to the 2 Furd homers announce the Nevada game to open the new Memorial Stadium. Just like it will be a mistake to listen to the announcers in our final game talk about how Mike Riley and Tedford were both on the mystical top ten "hot-seat" to start the season and how they've gone different directions. Tedford has been a far more historically significant coach for us than Riley was at OSU, and I am still not convinced how anyone can come up with a "hot seat" before a season even starts. Based on topics in this post alone (ethics, performance against one's rival, penalties, possible early departure for the NFL, etc), you could make an argument that just about every college coach in the nation is on a "hot seat" for one reason or another.

---

Good post but comparing Tedford to White or Snyder isn't fair to JT.
White ran an "outlaw" program and he finally got caught because of the thugs he recruited. He was totally unconcerned with "student" performance. Just one example, Chuck Muncie was great on the field but AWOL as a student. The White legacy is one of shame.

Tedford's legacy is noteable. He did turn the program around dramatically, both on the field and in the classroom. The facilities he fought to improve are in place and a monument to his perseverence.
But, he's obviously worn-out, tired, appearing disinterested, remote, out-of-touch. He needs to leave for the sake of himself and the football program. He's peaked and is now in decline, as is the program.

<edit> Read your link ... omg ... the comparisons to Paterno and James are ironic. We know now that Paterno and James both ran out-of-control programs but "fans" were ecstatic because their teams were winning on the field. Paterno got fired when he was unmasked; James quit in a huff, ran away crying when his misdeeds were uncovered leaving UW in total disarray.

[U]I'd rather see Cal struggle with integrity than to see another "win no matter what" type coach get hired.[/U]
I don't think anyone sane would accuse Tedford of a lack of integrity. He's a class act. His effectiveness as a coach is rapidly declining but he can hold his head high for the way he's conducting himself. Kudos to Tedford for being a responsible, ethical man, not just a football coach.

Kirby Smart .... Last offseason Saban was openly promoting him as a HC candidate....

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/2011/11/28/nick-saban-says-kirby-smart-is-ready/

SonOfCalVa;841965314 said:

---

Good post but comparing Tedford to White or Snyder isn't fair to JT.
White ran an "outlaw" program and he finally got caught because of the thugs he recruited. He was totally unconcerned with "student" performance. Just one example, Chuck Muncie was great on the field but AWOL as a student. The White legacy is one of shame.

Tedford's legacy is noteable. He did turn the program around dramatically, both on the field and in the classroom. The facilities he fought to improve are in place and a monument to his perseverence.
But, he's obviously worn-out, tired, appearing disinterested, remote, out-of-touch. He needs to leave for the sake of himself and the football program. He's peaked and is now in decline, as is the program.

<edit> Read your link ... omg ... the comparisons to Paterno and James are ironic. We know now that Paterno and James both ran out-of-control programs but "fans" were ecstatic because their teams were winning on the field. Paterno got fired when he was unmasked; James quit in a huff, ran away crying when his misdeeds were uncovered leaving UW in total disarray.

[U]I'd rather see Cal struggle with integrity than to see another "win no matter what" type coach get hired.[/U]
I don't think anyone sane would accuse Tedford of a lack of integrity. He's a class act. His effectiveness as a coach is rapidly declining but he can hold his head high for the way he's conducting himself. Kudos to Tedford for being a responsible, ethical man, not just a football coach.

---

I agree with all of it.

MolecularBear007;841965174 said:

---

I don't mean to single you out, but this is the same thought process that landed Penn State in the state they are in today. Tedford is a man who gets paid very well to coach. He is not doing what he is doing out of love for Cal football. His performance has been so horrid that you have people with his name as a handle calling for his termination.

The horse is not dead yet. Once he is fired, then I promise you the comments will stop. Until then, Tedford's coaching over the last five games has been an embarrassment.

---

LOL @ being compared to Ped state. Really?

davetdds;841965199 said:

---

Haha. If you don't like what we write, go to some of the other forums. So you don't care if someone is tearing apart our football program. I did not say he is doing it on purpose, but it is happening. You don't mind a gifted athlete riding the pine because of some ridiculous notion by the HC. You don't mind recruiting the worse in the PAC12 in the near future. I am sure you love Cal, but may not really care about football.

---

Why should he leave? If you dislike positive sentiments perhaps YOU should be the one to leave. After all this is a forum FOR Cal football not AGAINST Cal football.

Anyway, spreading grief isn't going to haste JT's departure. All it does is bring everyone down. You're kidding yourself if you think you're making any positive difference.

FlourBear;841965298 said:

---

I recall Snyder was ran out of town because his teams were considered undisciplined and had too many penalties. The 1991 big game especially when we had 7 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties by the 3rd quarter against an extremely talented Furd team that had a future NFL hall of famer and several future NFL pro-bowlers. Also Snyder's inability to beat supposedly mediocre Furd teams was a concern. And to those of you on this forum with especially fragile egos who want to continue to pretend "it was all Bockrath's fault", I suggest you read Bear Backer Dave Newhouse's article "No Excuses for Cal's Boorish Behavior" (12/5/91) which captures the Cal fanbase's sentiments at the time:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19911205&id=VJczAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=2078,4378210

---

Your recollection fails you. Snyder was not "run out of town" for any reason; he quit, on his own accord and against the wishes of every Cal fan, for a better offer. Bockrath let him get away because he was a terrible, terrible, AD. Yes, his team was undisciplined; but no one particularly cared to discuss discipline until the Big Game, when it was a factor in the loss. No one was talking about discipline after we kicked Clemson's ass in the Citrus Bowl.

Bockrath let Snyder get away but Snyder also wanted, yes wait for it...improved FACILITIES. That was 20 years ago.

JSC 76;841965473 said:

---

Your recollection fails you. Snyder was not "run out of town" for any reason; he quit, on his own accord and against the wishes of every Cal fan, for a better offer. Bockrath let him get away because he was a terrible, terrible, AD. Yes, his team was undisciplined; but no one particularly cared to discuss discipline until the Big Game, when it was a factor in the loss. No one was talking about discipline after we kicked Clemson's ass in the Citrus Bowl.

---

freshfunk;841965460 said:

---

Anyway, spreading grief isn't going to haste JT's departure. All it does is bring everyone down. You're kidding yourself if you think you're making any positive difference.

---

This. Perhaps we could change the name of this forum to "unloading unto other Cal fans", though, until some positive momentum is achieved.

You said, "...before the football program falls of the cliff into oblivion..."

Are you here all week???

freshfunk;841965460 said:

---

Why should he leave? If you dislike positive sentiments perhaps YOU should be the one to leave. After all this is a forum FOR Cal football not AGAINST Cal football.

---

You are such a whiny little b____. Always crying and carrying on. Grow up already.

freshfunk;841965460 said:

---

Why should he leave? If you dislike positive sentiments perhaps YOU should be the one to leave. After all this is a forum FOR Cal football not AGAINST Cal football.

Anyway, spreading grief isn't going to haste JT's departure. All it does is bring everyone down. You're kidding yourself if you think you're making any positive difference.

---

Maybe he just doesn't like delusional statements...besides, you mentions positive difference.....is Jeff Tedford making a positive difference? I think not.

FlourBear;841965298 said:

---

Some people on here have been comparing Tedford to Gilbertson and Holmoe. Based on historical accomplishments, this is not appropriate - his hypothetical "firing" should be compared to that of Pappy Waldorf, Mike White, or Bruce Snyder.

I recall White was coming off a winning season but there were ethereal "ethical" issues surrounding his program that caused us to panic and get rid of him. There have been similar struggles involving law/ethics/rules/etc recently with the tree sitters preventing the facilities from being built. Also our great teams early in Tedford's era hit a wall because usc's unethical teams were allowed to run amuck for far too long without repercussions. And now that usc is out of the picture, we are unable to capitalize because we do not have the personell (tree sitters and legalities harmed recruiting) - our team has gaping holes at certain positions. In terms of "rules", we've had a large number of penalties (especially in the new Memorial) recently - the scorecard says 120 yds last game but it was more like 200+ considering some of the plays that were called back.

I recall Snyder was ran out of town because his teams were considered undisciplined and had too many penalties. The 1991 big game especially when we had 7 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties by the 3rd quarter against an extremely talented Furd team that had a future NFL hall of famer and several future NFL pro-bowlers. Also Snyder's inability to beat supposedly mediocre Furd teams was a concern. And to those of you on this forum with especially fragile egos who want to continue to pretend "it was all Bockrath's fault", I suggest you read Bear Backer Dave Newhouse's article "No Excuses for Cal's Boorish Behavior" (12/5/91) which captures the Cal fanbase's sentiments at the time:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19911205&id=VJczAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=2078,4378210

Waldorf's firing was a bit before my time. Anyone care to enlighten? All I know is it involved the 49ers, which conjures up Aaron Rodger's early departure because (according to him) he always dreamed of playing for the 49ers and they promised they would draft him (which turned out to be untrue). I think we all know what would've been in 2005 had Rodgers not been deceived.

Tedford has been a historic coach here so it will be a mistake to make knee-jerk decisions about him. Just like it was a mistake to listen to the 2 Furd homers announce the Nevada game to open the new Memorial Stadium. Just like it will be a mistake to listen to the announcers in our final game talk about how Mike Riley and Tedford were both on the mystical top ten "hot-seat" to start the season and how they've gone different directions. Tedford has been a far more historically significant coach for us than Riley was at OSU, and I am still not convinced how anyone can come up with a "hot seat" before a season even starts. Based on topics in this post alone (ethics, performance against one's rival, penalties, possible early departure for the NFL, etc), you could make an argument that just about every college coach in the nation is on a "hot seat" for one reason or another.

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Bruce Synder was fired because Bockrath wanted him to continue his job on minimum wage.
Mike White was fired due to NCAA violations.
Neither has much similarity with Tedford's situation.

Pappy, maybe, I only have at best 3rd hand knowledge of his era.

Tedford's closest contemporary comparison is Ben Braun, in terms of his career trajectory after arriving at Cal.

freshfunk;841965460 said:

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After all this is a forum FOR Cal football not AGAINST Cal football.

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All of us who think it's time for Tedford to go are FOR Cal football. How does that differ from your position?

As for those who are AGAINST Cal football -- e.g. $C, fUCLA and Stanfurd fans -- what do you think that they want us to do about our coaching situation?

freshfunk;841965457 said:

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LOL @ being compared to Ped state. Really?

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I am going to go ahead and guess that reading comprehension is probably not your forte.

SonOfCalVa;841965314 said:

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Good post but comparing Tedford to White or Snyder isn't fair to JT.
White ran an "outlaw" program and he finally got caught because of the thugs he recruited. He was totally unconcerned with "student" performance. Just one example, Chuck Muncie was great on the field but AWOL as a student. The White legacy is one of shame.

Tedford's legacy is noteable. He did turn the program around dramatically, both on the field and in the classroom. The facilities he fought to improve are in place and a monument to his perseverence.
But, he's obviously worn-out, tired, appearing disinterested, remote, out-of-touch. He needs to leave for the sake of himself and the football program. He's peaked and is now in decline, as is the program.

<edit> Read your link ... omg ... the comparisons to Paterno and James are ironic. We know now that Paterno and James both ran out-of-control programs but "fans" were ecstatic because their teams were winning on the field. Paterno got fired when he was unmasked; James quit in a huff, ran away crying when his misdeeds were uncovered leaving UW in total disarray.

[U]I'd rather see Cal struggle with integrity than to see another "win no matter what" type coach get hired.[/U]
I don't think anyone sane would accuse Tedford of a lack of integrity. He's a class act. His effectiveness as a coach is rapidly declining but he can hold his head high for the way he's conducting himself. Kudos to Tedford for being a responsible, ethical man, not just a football coach.

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I want to preface this by saying that I've met Tedford on a few occasions and I really like the guy personally and absolutely agree that he's a man of integrity. I feel badly for the guy because I think the physical toll that the past 11 years have taken on him is obvious and he could really use a break from the stresses of his job. At this point I really want him out as our head coach and it kills me that it so desperately needs to happen...

But, at this point can we really in good conscience say that he turned the program around dramatically, both on the field and in the classroom? No one can deny that we're in a much stronger position than when Holmoe left-- we have much better quality depth on our roster and the stadium renovations and SAHPC are Tedford's real legacy and will help the program immensely for decades. Yet on the field our 2012 record is unlikely to be much better than Holmoe's final season (even if we aren't losing by laughable 40 point spreads just yet). In the classroom our APR is an embarrassing 11th out of 12 teams. At 936, Football's APR is easily the worst of any sport on campus, has dropped 4 consecutive years and is barely above the NCAA baseline threshold that would subject us to scholarship losses.

The poor APR is as embarrassing to me as is our record and I don't think it's any coincidence that the slide has coincided with Tedford losing control of the program over the past few years. I'm not in a position to put up the money to buy the man out, but I sure hope someone out there is, because things are only going to continue to decline until we get a fresh start. I hope this year is the end so we can go back to appreciating what he did for the program and he can find renewed success elsewhere (I think he would make an outstanding NFL offensive coordinator).

CalBearz02;841963633 said:

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I read that Tedord say it is because he doesn't know the playbook! What a joke!

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Unfortunately, that is pretty much the reason Bigelow is rarely on the field. When he was on the field Saturday, did you notice that every play he had to be instructed by one of the other players on where to line up. His success against OSU almost restricts his use becaue if you line him up in the backfield, the defense knows what play is coming.

Masau80;841965644 said:

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His success against OSU almost restricts his use becaue if you line him up in the backfield, the defense knows what play is coming.

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The horror, the horror.