1) It would do nothing to help recruiting. National LOS day is well after the season ends. A new coach will have time to salvage a class and, if he is currently employed (see below) will have a chance to bring some kids with if they are qualified to go to Cal.

2) It will do nothing to help with hiring. Few on this board believes that the currently "unemployed" coaches are a sure fit for Cal. Petrino is the guy out there but it just is ridiculous to believe he could survive/be hired at Cal. My goodness, he is a walking example of how to violate the university's sexual harassment policy.

3) It has the potential to make hiring EXTREMELY difficult.

Do any of you remember the last firing we did with 1/2 of the seaons left. I sure do. An underperforming team gelled and suddenly started having fun. They made a little noise in the post season. Attendance picked up.

Go post on the Basketball board about how much of a problem that created when it was time to do the "real" search. Now fathom the kind of candidates we could have had with the roster Bozeman got to inherit and ask yourself whether we could have actually BUILT upon Lou's C's efforts rather than essentially went back to square one.

Do what 99% of programs do. Can him at the end of the year. If you are hiring someone unemployed, announce the next day.

socaltownie;841966025 said:

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1) It would do nothing to help recruiting. National LOS day is well after the season ends. A new coach will have time to salvage a class and, if he is currently employed (see below) will have a chance to bring some kids with if they are qualified to go to Cal.

2) It will do nothing to help with hiring. Few on this board believes that the currently "unemployed" coaches are a sure fit for Cal. Petrino is the guy out there but it just is ridiculous to believe he could survive/be hired at Cal. My goodness, he is a walking example of how to violate the university's sexual harassment policy.

3) It has the potential to make hiring EXTREMELY difficult.

Do any of you remember the last firing we did with 1/2 of the seaons left. I sure do. An underperforming team gelled and suddenly started having fun. They made a little noise in the post season. Attendance picked up.

Go post on the Basketball board about how much of a problem that created when it was time to do the "real" search. Now fathom the kind of candidates we could have had with the roster Bozeman got to inherit and ask yourself whether we could have actually BUILT upon Lou's C's efforts rather than essentially went back to square one.

Do what 99% of programs do. Can him at the end of the year. If you are hiring someone unemployed, announce the next day.

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on the flip side, hiring someone in January does little for recruiting. you want kids to trust a guy who is selling you 3-6 years of your life when he's only had the job for a week or two?

socaltownie;841966025 said:

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1) It would do nothing to help recruiting. National LOS day is well after the season ends. A new coach will have time to salvage a class and, if he is currently employed (see below) will have a chance to bring some kids with if they are qualified to go to Cal.

2) It will do nothing to help with hiring. Few on this board believes that the currently "unemployed" coaches are a sure fit for Cal. Petrino is the guy out there but it just is ridiculous to believe he could survive/be hired at Cal. My goodness, he is a walking example of how to violate the university's sexual harassment policy.

3) It has the potential to make hiring EXTREMELY difficult.

Do any of you remember the last firing we did with 1/2 of the seaons left. I sure do. An underperforming team gelled and suddenly started having fun. They made a little noise in the post season. Attendance picked up.

Go post on the Basketball board about how much of a problem that created when it was time to do the "real" search. Now fathom the kind of candidates we could have had with the roster Bozeman got to inherit and ask yourself whether we could have actually BUILT upon Lou's C's efforts rather than essentially went back to square one.

Do what 99% of programs do. Can him at the end of the year. If you are hiring someone unemployed, announce the next day.

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I disagree with all of the above.
However, the only reason I can think of not to fire Tedford right now, is that the players may rally around an outgoing coach, and go on a 6-game winning streak. And AD will look silly. The thing is, we actually have the talent to go on a winning streak if they play inspired football.
So let's fire him a few weeks down the road when there will be no chance of a temporary spark.

If you mean firing w/ an interim coach, I agree 100%; however, following the Holmoe or Kapp model (firing him but allowing him to finish out the season) makes a lot of sense. Gives order to the process, quiets the masses, and allows for the search to begin quickly.

LethalFang;841966030 said:

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I disagree with all of the above.
However, the only reason I can think of not to fire Tedford right now, is that the players may rally around an outgoing coach, and go on a 6-game winning streak. And AD will look silly. The thing is, we actually have the talent to go on a winning streak if they play inspired football.
So let's fire him a few weeks down the road when there will be no chance of a temporary spark.

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by replacing him with someone who goes 6-0?? I don't get that. I realize it will cause her pause if she has her heart set on someone outside the program as the new coach but she won't look silly. I think it will look like a gutsy, brilliant move.

UrsaMajor;841966033 said:

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If you mean firing w/ an interim coach, I agree 100%; however, following the Holmoe or Kapp model (firing him but allowing him to finish out the season) makes a lot of sense. Gives order to the process, quiets the masses, and allows for the search to begin quickly.

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I would agree with this but do you think Tedford would? My guess is that he would say "F'it. I am not finishing." Then you are with an interim.

If you are not hiring someone unemployed you get no advantage on recruiting. Since I think Petrino is a no go (but who would win) I think you can't/won't see a hire made until January given the dynamics of needing to hire folks who are done with the bowls.

I'm inclined to agree.

He's been with the program for 11 years. He made us relevant again (at least through '07). He's handled himself with class (ie, no motorcycle accident with a woman he's having an affair with/NCAA sanctions for recruiting violations). Mid-season firing doesn't say, "We're serious about winning" as much as it says, "At the *new* Cal, we have no loyalty to anyone."

To be clear, I'm *not* questioning anyone connected to the program/donors/supporters who have suggested otherwise. I absolutely believe that there is serious talk of a mid-season pink slip coming from those who know best. But I'd be shocked if it happened.

(On the other hand, I think Tedford might already know that his job is gone with loss #7...and that a formal but *private* notification could come mid-season.)

82gradDLSdad;841966038 said:

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by replacing him with someone who goes 6-0?? I don't get that. I realize it will cause her pause if she has her heart set on someone outside the program as the new coach but she won't look silly. I think it will look like a gutsy, brilliant move.

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So straight up. Right now. You think Gould is better than Peterson at building a program?

Cause I sure as hell don't. But if you put Gould as interim that is PRECISELY what could happen and you could be looking at Bozeman 2.0 - hopefully without the Gardner family but who the heck knows with an interim elevated to permanent who has never HC'ed before.

82gradDLSdad;841966038 said:

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by replacing him with someone who goes 6-0?? I don't get that. I realize it will cause her pause if she has her heart set on someone outside the program as the new coach but she won't look silly. I think it will look like a gutsy, brilliant move.

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If Sandy fires Tedford today, and then all of the sudden the team wakes up (for the remainder of the season) and goes on a tear, the firing would look silly to many people. Sandy would take a lot of criticism for "jumping the gun" before Tedford has a chance to turnaround.
That's unlikely, but well within realm of possibility. We all have seen instances when a mid-season firing inspires a team to play better (did our 2002 team lose to Arizona who just fired their coach, or something of similar circumstance?).
With our roster, it is actually quite probable. And I'm guessing Sandy doesn't want her decision second-guessed, so she'll give Tedford plenty of rope to hang himself, leaving him no chance to bring doubt back into her decision.

LethalFang;841966054 said:

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If Sandy fires Tedford today, and then all of the sudden the team wakes up (for the remainder of the season) and goes on a tear, the firing would look silly to many people. Sandy would take a lot of criticism for "jumping the gun" before Tedford has a chance to turnaround.
That's unlikely, but well within realm of possibility. We all have seen instances when a mid-season firing inspires a team to play better (did our 2002 team lose to Arizona who just fired their coach, or something of similar circumstance?).
With our roster, it is actually quite probable. And I'm guessing Sandy doesn't want her decision second-guessed, so she'll give Tedford plenty of rope to hang himself, leaving him no chance to bring doubt back into her decision.

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And I don't even think it is about "jumping the gun". It is how hard it makes the process of making your "real hire". Play this out. Fire Tedford before Halloween. Name Gould your interim. We get inspired. Bigelow run for 400 yard against Huskies.

Offseason Sandy makes the right call. Hires a proven winner (hell, lets get all fantasyland and say Caroll is available. He and Monty go halvies on a cool fractional ownership house on the West Shore of Tahoe. Name it "Bigger than Tosh's Dingy")

Gould is hurt. Pissed. He was passed over. Ass wipe in Seattle rings him up. Says they have an opening for a new running back coach.

Bigelow, the mature 20 year old he is, says "I am following my guy. Plus there is this cool boat I can party on while I sit out a year." Leaves. Maybe Kline as well cause Teddy just took the OC job for Belotti at Tennessee.

NOW tell me you are happy.

socaltownie;841966048 said:

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So straight up. Right now. You think Gould is better than Peterson at building a program?

Cause I sure as hell don't. But if you put Gould as interim that is PRECISELY what could happen and you could be looking at Bozeman 2.0 - hopefully without the Gardner family but who the heck knows with an interim elevated to permanent who has never HC'ed before.

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And Petersen did not build Boise St. Koetter, then Hawkins, then Petersen. The fact that the first two have crashed and burned at bigger schools doesn't make Petersen high on my list. With that said, it's anyone's guess who will pan out as the next head coach and who will crash.

Please stop the Gould talk.

Wrong. If he is told mid-season that he will be terminated at the end of the year, they negotiate a buyout. If he says "f- it, I'm out of here," then he is owed NOTHING (because he quit). Doubt he would leave that much $$ on the table just to flip Sandy the bird.

socaltownie;841966025 said:

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1) It would do nothing to help recruiting. National LOS day is well after the season ends. A new coach will have time to salvage a class and, if he is currently employed (see below) will have a chance to bring some kids with if they are qualified to go to Cal.

2) It will do nothing to help with hiring. Few on this board believes that the currently "unemployed" coaches are a sure fit for Cal. Petrino is the guy out there but it just is ridiculous to believe he could survive/be hired at Cal. My goodness, he is a walking example of how to violate the university's sexual harassment policy.

3) It has the potential to make hiring EXTREMELY difficult.

Do any of you remember the last firing we did with 1/2 of the seaons left. I sure do. An underperforming team gelled and suddenly started having fun. They made a little noise in the post season. Attendance picked up.

Go post on the Basketball board about how much of a problem that created when it was time to do the "real" search. Now fathom the kind of candidates we could have had with the roster Bozeman got to inherit and ask yourself whether we could have actually BUILT upon Lou's C's efforts rather than essentially went back to square one.

Do what 99% of programs do. Can him at the end of the year. If you are hiring someone unemployed, announce the next day.

---

I know that for many the Jelani Gardner scandal makes any discussion of Bozeman's merit moot, but Bozeman and Lavin (similar situation replacing Harrick at UCLA) were not necessarily bad hires, both were young charismatic coaches, who were great recruiters. Either could have surrounded themselves with good assistants, tapped the school's brain trust (Newell and Wooden) for mentoring and grown into the job. It didn't turn out that way, both squandered their opportunities and brought on their own demise with the hubris of youth.

However, wasn't it Bozeman who turned around that team by letting Kidd take the reins and lead us to the Sweet 16 with a win over defending National Champion Duke????? That was the greatest moment in my Cal basketball fandom and it would not have happened if we let Campanelli finish out the season.

And I don't think most considered Braun "back to square one" at the time. He is likely the type of coach we would have gone after anyways and he did inherit some good players. Similarly, when UCLA did get rid of Lavin, they got Howland who I think ultimately was a bad fit, but has given them some some Final Four appearances.

I think it is tough to make a case for firing the head coach and having an assistant turn around the season as being a bad thing. You do not have to keep them on. But if they bring home The Axe, or beat Oregon...how is that a bad thing?

beelzebear;841966075 said:

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Please stop the Gould talk.

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let alone go 6-0. I still think Tedford finishes out the season.

82gradDLSdad;841966086 said:

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let alone go 6-0. I still think Tedford finishes out the season.

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Exactly. The premise of us going 6-0 under any circumstances at this point is far fetched at best.

I respectfully disagree. Firing Tedford NOW sends a clear signal that Cal is committed to winning and will not accept the current malaise. It will also clear the stench out of the building and maybe give the kids on the team some reason to be optimistic and give it their all for the remaining games. Gould wouldn't be the interim coach in any event. It would likely be Coach M or Pendergast. In the unlikely event an interim coach would win all the remaining games, why not give him a contract after the season ends? Very little chance that would happen, however, since it will likely take some time to right this ship.

pump it Townie!! lol

NYCGOBEARS;841966089 said:

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Exactly. The premise of us going 6-0 under any circumstances at this point is far fetched at best.

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But IF it happened, I have trouble seeing that as a bad thing.

calumnus;841966103 said:

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But IF it happened, I have trouble seeing that as a bad thing.

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IF, it did happen I think it would justify the firing.

socaltownie;841966025 said:

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Do any of you remember the last firing we did with 1/2 of the seaons left. I sure do. An underperforming team gelled and suddenly started having fun. They made a little noise in the post season. Attendance picked up.

---

Are you saying we should fire Tedford so the team will gel?

I dont get it.

I'm with Ghost. Firing mid-season would leave a real sour taste in my mouth.

With that said, maybe something similar could be done with more class. Basically give JT a chance to resign and say this is his last year (not really giving him a choice in the matter). Or inform him behind closed doors that he will be let go but not officially announcing until later. This allows both parties to be transparent and Cal can look for a new HC.

The way the team has looks you would think that JT already knows he's on his way out. Perhaps there have already been talks?

My big concern with a mid-season firing, aside from the fact that we don't gain anything other than a "message" that we don't even need, is the following: We have a LOT of freshman and sophomore talent, much of it proven. We need those guys for the next coach, and to smooth over any recruiting speed-bump we hit this year. Several of these guys haven't even burned their red-shirts (Bigelow, Powe, Treggs, Harper, Rodgers, Scarlett, Jalil, Moala, McClure, and McCain come to mind). These are guys who other college coaches can see D1 tape on, and who are desirable if you need a de facto free-agent pickup.

We don't want two months of uncertainty with Urban Meyer (or OSU players on Twitter, or whatever loophole coaches can find) in our players' ears with our only counter being an interim coach. I appreciate that this COULD happen even if we don't fire Tedford mid-season, but my suspicion is that it would be much more intense if we did. We really don't want to lose guys that are already here and producing. For a guy who hasn't used his red-shirt, sitting out one year to go to a known winner would be a very tempting opportunity. Meyer lured Emmanuel Moody into a transfer from USC, and he wasn't even playing for the Trojans. Imagine what he (or others like him) would do for Bigelow.

We have to face it: Cal football is not a good place to be right now. A few players (probably the mediocre ones) would show "loyalty," but the exodus would be painful. The only way to stop that is to minimize the offers that come to our guys before we have a shiny new hire in place.

I'd favor a firing at the end of the year, with an understanding and lots of behind the scenes contacts with prospective coaches before then. Once the season ends, out with the old and immediately in with a new guy that our players and recruits can rally behind and get excited about.

We culd ver easy end up with a coach no better or even worst than JT. being a Cal fan since the 1945 I very well think Cal will never get a better coach. After reading all the negative talk on this board, a good coach would be nuts coming here, after a few years it could be him reading this crap about him. I trully think this board had a lot to do with Tosh leaving. This board helped him make up his mind. It is very sad when a coach has to put up with this board making it even harder to recruit.

Phantomfan;841966112 said:

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Are you saying we should fire Tedford so the team will gel?

I dont get it.

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I am saying that often that _IS_ what happens in these situations. Remember, these are 19 and 20 year olds we are talking about. Often they are closer to the position coach (now interim) than the HC. Emotions matter in college football.

But it rarely lasts/sustains. You also gotta be a good administrator. You have to be able to talk with donors. You gotta manage people.

Come on, we are CAL! How many times have we played the game of watching "the new guy" come in, tap into some emotion and get some wins only to find out, over the long haul, he just isn't that good?

It is why many of the BB fans are so high on Monty - cause he is a proven PROGRAM builder. Especially with the Bird/Mathews signing (and being in the running for Gordon and Lee) it shows that we are getting the recruiting pistons firing as well.

Phantomfan;841966112 said:

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Are you saying we should fire Tedford so the team will gel?

I dont get it.

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It sounds crazy, but it happens quite often, especially for teams that are deemed inconsistent, i.e., both playing up and down to their level of competition.
Sometimes firing the head coach gives the players a jolt they otherwise never had, and play better as a result.

Baloney! Have you ever looked at the Boards of other schools? This board is mild by comparison. Check out the Texas board after they've lot a single game. Hell, they're calling for the coach's head if they lose two games in succession or end up 9-3 on the season.

Firing him mid season may result in us winning a game or at least not losing based on idiotic decisions and predictable ineffective playcalling that makes every rationale fan want to burn their Cal gear until a new coach is hired.

SFBear2012;841966182 said:

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Firing him mid season may result in us winning a game or at least not losing based on idiotic decisions and predictable ineffective playcalling that makes every rationale fan want to burn their Cal gear until a new coach is hired.

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Assuming Tedford is the one calling the plays, which no one is sure of.

beelzebear;841966075 said:

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Please stop the Gould talk.

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Yes, agreed. This is the coach who supposedly is playing Isi and CJ OVER Brendan. (As has been reported here, he is in charge of RB substitutions)

Or are all of you saying Gould would be interim saying JT is mandating the carries/playing time?

Trilogy44;841966260 said:

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Yes, agreed. This is the coach who supposedly is playing Isi and CJ OVER Brendan. (As has been reported here, he is in charge of RB substitutions)

Or are all of you saying Gould would be interim saying JT is mandating the carries/playing time?

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All I am saying is that as the coach with the longest time at Cal I could EASILY see Sandy bumping him over a dead man walking coordinator and giving him the nod as interim.

RICHPACO;841966127 said:

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We culd ver easy end up with a coach no better or even worst than JT. being a Cal fan since the 1945 I very well think Cal will never get a better coach. After reading all the negative talk on this board, a good coach would be nuts coming here, after a few years it could be him reading this crap about him. I trully think this board had a lot to do with Tosh leaving. This board helped him make up his mind. It is very sad when a coach has to put up with this board making it even harder to recruit.

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Any coach who would be afraid to come to Cal because he might get criticized on a fan board if he has a losing record or underperforms is not the coach we want. To paraphrase the immortal Andy Smith: We do not want a coach who will lie down bravely to die. We want a coach who will fight valiantly to live. Seriously, any decently good coach at any level (high school and maybe even Pop Warner let alone college) believes in himself, wants to be challenged, and will not be scared of an opportunity because fans won't accept a loser.

RICHPACO;841966127 said:

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We culd ver easy end up with a coach no better or even worst than JT. being a Cal fan since the 1945 I very well think Cal will never get a better coach. After reading all the negative talk on this board, a good coach would be nuts coming here, after a few years it could be him reading this crap about him. I trully think this board had a lot to do with Tosh leaving. This board helped him make up his mind. It is very sad when a coach has to put up with this board making it even harder to recruit.

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With the talent we have, if he doesn't win next year, goodbye.

socaltownie;841966146 said:

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I am saying that often that _IS_ what happens in these situations. Remember, these are 19 and 20 year olds we are talking about. Often they are closer to the position coach (now interim) than the HC. Emotions matter in college football.

But it rarely lasts/sustains. You also gotta be a good administrator. You have to be able to talk with donors. You gotta manage people.

Come on, we are CAL! How many times have we played the game of watching "the new guy" come in, tap into some emotion and get some wins only to find out, over the long haul, he just isn't that good?

It is why many of the BB fans are so high on Monty - cause he is a proven PROGRAM builder. Especially with the Bird/Mathews signing (and being in the running for Gordon and Lee) it shows that we are getting the recruiting pistons firing as well.

---

That's hilarious. At least half of the hoops board was ready to send MM packing two months ago before we signed Bird. All the talk was that he'd lost it and didn't have the ability or the staff to effectively recruit.

How quickly things change... God help us if Tedford somehow rattles off a couple wins in a row and then we shock the world and win Big Game. This board would sprain its ankles from changing direction so fast.

BeggarEd;841966428 said:

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That's hilarious. At least half of the hoops board was ready to send MM packing two months ago before we signed Bird. All the talk was that he'd lost it and didn't have the ability or the staff to effectively recruit.

How quickly things change... God help us if Tedford somehow rattles off a couple wins in a row and then we shock the world and win Big Game. This board would sprain its ankles from changing direction so fast.

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I think at worst the critics on the BB site were suggesting that this should be a topic of conversation between Sandy and MM and worthy of a press question or 2.

And look what he did. Bumped John Jay upstairs, elevated his top recruiter to chief assistant, and brought Theo on. THAT is how you elevate your game.