This thread is spurred by a post in another thread discussing the necessity of recruiting SoCal kids. Some posters argued that Cal should try to "lock down" Northern California, and only use SoCal and out of state kids to supplement the class. 59bear posted:

59bear;842073642 said:

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Southern Cal will always be a necessity simply due to the population disparity. I've never seen a breakdown of the DI athletes from the north vs the south but I'd guess it favors the south by at least 3-1, more if you consider central Cal a separate region. There are simply not enough DI prospects in the Bay/Sac Metro areas to sustain a top level football program.

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I disagree. Southern Cal will always be a necessity, but Northern California DOES produce enough talent to sustain a top program. If we define Northern California as north of, and not including, Fresno, here are the recruits that are three star and higher per Scout:

DT 2 Eddie Vanderdoes (5 Star)
(Placer High (Char))
Auburn, CA

RB 6 Justin Davis (5 Star)
(Lincoln HS)
Stockton, CA 6-1/195 Committed to USC

OLB 8 Michael Hutchings (High Four Star)
(De La Salle HS)
Concord, CA 6-1/210 Committed to USC

DT 11 Elijah Qualls (High Four Star)
(Casa Grande HS)
Petaluma, CA 6-2/279 Committed to Washington

TE 13 John Mundt (High Four Star)
(Central Catholic HS)
Modesto, CA 6-4/225 Committed to Oregon

WR 20 Darrell Daniels (High Four Star)
(Freedom HS)
Oakley, CA 6-3/210 Committed to Washington

QB 21 Jared Goff (High Four Star)
(Marin Catholic HS)
Kentfield, CA 6-4/190 Committed to California

K 2 Matt Anderson
(San Ramon Valley HS)
Danville, CA 6-0/180 Committed to California

TE 25 Austin Hooper
(De La Salle HS)
Concord, CA 6-4/247 Committed to Stanford

MLB 27 Tanner Vallejo
(Nevada Union HS)
Grass Valley, CA 6-2/225 Committed to Boise State

CB 35 Chris Seisay
(American Canyon HS)
American Canyon, CA 6-2/175 Committed to Oregon

MLB 48 Beau Hershberger
(Granite Bay HS)
Granite Bay, CA 6-2.5/225/4.70 Committed to Nevada

CB 50 Kevin King
(Bishop O Dowd HS)
Oakland, CA 6-3/183 Committed to Washington

OLB 51 D.J. Moffitt
(De La Salle HS)
Concord, CA 6-2/205 Committed to UNLV

DT 57 Nick Terry
(Pleasant Grove HS)
Elk Grove, CA 6-4/270 Committed to Boise State

TE 59 Ray Hudson
(Foothill HS)
Pleasanton, CA 6-4/230/4.60 Committed to California

OT 61 Jack Powers
(Palma HS)
Salinas, CA 6-6/245 Committed to Arizona State

DE 61 Takkarist McKinley
(Kennedy HS)
Richmond, CA 6-3/240 Committed to California

QB 63 Zack Greenlee
(Lincoln HS)
Stockton, CA 6-1/190 Committed to Fresno State

OLB 70 Victor Egu
(De La Salle HS)
Concord, CA 6-3/215 Committed to Yale

OT 72 Aaron Cochran
(Buhach Colony HS)
Atwater, CA 6-8/350 Committed to California

S 74 Tyler Winston
(Antelope View Charter)
Antelope, CA 6-3/177 Committed to San Jose State

RB 76 Olito Thompson
(Concord HS)
Concord, CA 5-10/210/4.50 Committed to Washington State

RB 91 Warren Long
(James Logan HS)
Union City, CA 5-11/195 Committed to Northwestern

OLB 96 Ryan Dunn
(San Ramon Valley HS)
Danville, CA 6-3/205 Committed to Arizona

CB 101 Chidobe Awuzie
(Oak Grove HS)
San Jose, CA


This group, if it were a recruiting class, would be a great haul.

Unfortunately, what this list also shows is that Cal is not defending its turf very well. The [U][U]top six recruits [/U][/U]on this list are committed to schools outside of NorCal. Not cool...

Agree that locking down Northern California and then supplementing from Southern California would serve Coach Dykes well.

I'm a little concerned that right now as a football program we're 4th in the state behind USC, Stanford and UCLA, and once SC gets back to a full allotment of scholies that's even more rides for California kids. Throw Oregon and Washington into the mix, not to mention schools random schools like BYU that come into Cali for players, and it's a lot of competition for that in state talent.

Coach Dykes and staff certainly have their work cut out for them.

Tedford's second greatest failure as a recruiter was letting so many nor cal guys escape. Look at all the nor cal guys on Oregon and Oregon st. There is plenty of talent in nor cal to serve as a basis for a championship caliber team. Throw in a number of so cal guys every year and the occasional sprinkling of out of state guys and you can build a team that can compete w anyone w the right coach.
The previous regime spent so much time gallivanting in other states chasing either 1) guys w very little chance of coming to Cal or 2) guys w practically zero offers from anyone.

We have a natural advantage in terms of recruiting nor cal guys...time that we actually took advantage of it.

Locking down Northern California is a wonderful idea, but it falls into the trap that Cal dosn't have the prestige to do that right now. The top recruits in the area are going to look for a top program and after the last 3 years Cal does not have the reputation required to keep them in the area.

I find it fascinating that so many people here keep demanding that Coach Dykes recruit better than any other coach in the nation when Cal hasn't been a top 25 program for years. Recent history and reputation matter for recruiting and right now Cal doesn't have either one.

However, if Coach Dykes is as good at coaching as his reputation suggests, Cal should e able to put together an exciting team that is competitive in all 13 games next season including a bowl game and we should start attracting more of those top level recruits who currently have no interest in Cal due to the poor performance on the field over the last few years.

We saw with Cal's success in 2004 in particular as we hauled in a great class. And that was without the facilities we have now. Sonny might not be able to turn it around completely this year but I am excited to see what he can do. Advance Ursines!

MoragaBear;842073911 said:

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I've never bought into the idea of locking down a territory. There are too many variables involved. Personally, I don't care where Cal gets their players as long as they're tough, skilled, motivated and either successful academically or willing to work hard to be successful in school and capable of doing so.

From your list, two of the top three guys were longtime SC fans and another could play for any program in the country. He wasn't going to play for a 3-9 team.

At least six had lousy academics and either aren't UC eligible or at least close to it.

At least five more off that list may be decent athletes but weren't considered good enough for Cal or many others to offer.

Five are going to Cal. Coming off better years, they should probably have 7 or 8.

There are just too many things to consider about the recruiting process, including talent evaluation, skill set, fit, academics, toughness, athleticism, etc, to just look at a list and feel that a program should get as many people off the list as possible in most seasons.

Overall, I understand your point. Wanting to retain the best of the regionally closer top athletes is in general a good goal, but it's easy to oversimplify that goal and overlook a lot of other important realities that factor into the recruiting process.

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+1 ... nice clarification ... SydQuan, Worrel, Marshawn .. we'll get them again.

That would be great, but sometimes a kid just wants to move away from home, another state etc

I am happy that we have reopened the pipeline to CCSF (assuming the school stays open--sheesh). If we work closely with the top JC program in the country that is right in our backyard every one of their players can be UC eligible.

I'd then like to see us offer and recruit the top players there every year as a matter of principle.

All things being equal between two recruits you should go after the local one. We need to build the local interest first before going across the country.

MoragaBear;842073911 said:

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I've never bought into the idea of locking down a territory. There are too many variables involved. Personally, I don't care where Cal gets their players as long as they're tough, skilled, motivated and either successful academically or willing to work hard to be successful in school and capable of doing so.

From your list, two of the top three guys were longtime SC fans and another could play for any program in the country. He wasn't going to play for a 3-9 team.

At least six had lousy academics and either aren't UC eligible or at least close to it.

At least five more off that list may be decent athletes but weren't considered good enough for Cal or many others to offer.

Five are going to Cal. Coming off better years, they should probably have 7 or 8.

There are just too many things to consider about the recruiting process, including talent evaluation, skill set, fit, academics, toughness, athleticism, etc, to just look at a list and feel that a program should get as many people off the list as possible in most seasons.

Overall, I understand your point. Wanting to retain the best of the regionally closer top athletes is in general a good goal, but it's easy to oversimplify that goal and overlook a lot of other important realities that factor into the recruiting process.

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I think Sonny calls that finding the right "fit".

Agree with the posters who say that winning will take care of the problem.

We've been sucking since mid-October 2007. That's longer than any high school senior can even remember. And we don't have any movie like Rudy made about us to remind the youngins about our better days in the past.

It seems to me that Cal should have near exclusive rights to the upper third of the state to find players. There are a ton of good players up here but if you look at the history of our recruiting including this year very few "Northern Northern CA" players even get scouted let alone recruited. In talking to coaches up here they tell me they have not seen scouts from the recruiting agencies or anyone from Cal. No scouting visits = no rankings on Rivals and Scout = no offers. There are many guys like Vanderdoes hiding up here.

Four Cal players (now hopefully five if Cal can keep him) come to mind. Rodgers, Cross, Rigsbee, Rigsbee and O'Connell. Surprise, surprise, all were coached and came to Cal because of Butte College Coach/AD Craig Rigsbee, and all from the same high school. Rodgers only had one offer until Rigsbee got him seen by "accident" at BC. I don't think Cross had any offers but Tedford saw him because of Rigsbee. The Rigsbee sons had Dad's genes, coaching and promotion so they were guided well. O'Connell worked his ass off on his own to go and get seen. Rigsbee coached him for years.

My point is that nobody from Cal "found" any of these guys or anyone else from up north. Redding, Chico, Red Bluff, Placer, Susanville, Paradise etc. all have great football. So either only this Chico high school churns out the occasional player (all coached by Rigsbee) in the northern third of the state or else we are missing out on an untapped gold mine that should be scouted.
Whoever was the assigned Cal recruiter for the North on the old staff (Coach M?) obviously never got out of their armchair.

Who is the Northern California recruiter on the new staff?

BTW: Congratulations to Larry Allen for the HOF induction. Coached by Craig Rigsbee

TrenchMonster;842074070 said:

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It seems to me that Cal should have near exclusive rights to the upper third of the state to find players. There are a ton of good players up here but if you look at the history of our recruiting including this year very few “Northern Northern CA” players even get scouted let alone recruited. In talking to coaches up here they tell me they have not seen scouts from the recruiting agencies or anyone from Cal. No scouting visits = no rankings on Rivals and Scout = no offers. There are many guys like Vanderdoes hiding up here.

Four Cal players (now hopefully five if Cal can keep him) come to mind. Rodgers, Cross, Rigsbee, Rigsbee and O’Connell. Surprise, surprise, all were coached and came to Cal because of Butte College Coach/AD Craig Rigsbee, and all from the same high school. Rodgers only had one offer until Rigsbee got him seen by “accident” at BC. I don’t think Cross had any offers but Tedford saw him because of Rigsbee. The Rigsbee sons had Dad’s genes, coaching and promotion so they were guided well. O’Connell worked his ass off on his own to go and get seen. Rigsbee coached him for years.

My point is that nobody from Cal “found” any of these guys or anyone else from up north. Redding, Chico, Red Bluff, Placer, Susanville, Paradise etc. all have great football. So either only this Chico high school churns out the occasional player (all coached by Rigsbee) in the northern third of the state or else we are missing out on an untapped gold mine that should be scouted.
Whoever was the assigned Cal recruiter for the North on the old staff (Coach M?) obviously never got out of their armchair.

Who is the Northern California recruiter on the new staff?

BTW: Congratulations to Larry Allen for the HOF induction. Coached by Craig Rigsbee

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But, but unknown players from the north of the state, no matter how good, will probably only have, at most, one star on Scout and Rivals, and isn't the goal of Cal football collecting stars and finishing the (recruiting) season ranked highly by the self-appointed experts at the internet sites? Isn't that why we play the game?!!!!
:rant


:sarc:

MoragaBear;842073911 said:

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I've never bought into the idea of locking down a territory. There are too many variables involved. Personally, I don't care where Cal gets their players as long as they're tough, skilled, motivated and either successful academically or willing to work hard to be successful in school and capable of doing so.

From your list, two of the top three guys were longtime SC fans and another could play for any program in the country. He wasn't going to play for a 3-9 team.

At least six had lousy academics and either aren't UC eligible or at least close to it.

At least five more off that list may be decent athletes but weren't considered good enough for Cal or many others to offer.

Five are going to Cal. Coming off better years, they should probably have 7 or 8.

There are just too many things to consider about the recruiting process, including talent evaluation, skill set, fit, academics, toughness, athleticism, etc, to just look at a list and feel that a program should get as many people off the list as possible in most seasons.

Overall, I understand your point. Wanting to retain the best of the regionally closer top athletes is in general a good goal, but it's easy to oversimplify that goal andI overlook a lot of other important realities that factor into the recruiting process.

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I've got to agree: never been sold on the notion of having to lock in your territory. It sounds logical on paper but think about decisions that non-athlete students make when deciding where to go to school. Tons of NCal kids at ucla and USC. I was from scal and went up to Cal (so did Alex Mack, DJax, etc). I think for some kids they just want to put some distance between themselves and their family. These are highly personal decisions and you can't just chalk up a local kid going out of town as a failure in recruiting.

I just completed a study on 4 star safetys and found that a ridiculously high percentage stay very close to home. I don't know if this is generally true or not, but the trend seems to be increasing in recent years maybe due to travel costs.

I agree with the general sentiment of the OP that we should at least be doing a better job of scouting in northern california. And we can get better committments from the area. I wish someone would do a study of what percentage of northern california recruits weren't seriously considered because of academics. Because of global climate change, the bay area is becoming one of the few areas that have maintained moderate temperatures and relatively mild weather. This is a time in our history when local players probably prefer to stay local.

The bottom line is this, without the real academic information, it is really hard to evaluate the quality of Cal recruiting. Those in the business of second guessing could do us all a favor by providing the real story, rather than speculation.



There are 5 factors working against Cal relative to recent years.
1) No Tosh
2) Several losing seasons
3) Academic challenges
4) coaching changes
5) The recent rise of Stanford football

You could also say the rise of Washington and Oregon have also been factors.

There are 4 factors working for Cal relative to recent years.
1) New Stadium
2) new training facilities
3) A promising new football staff
4) Global climate change

How do you think this all shakes out? Hopefully, when points 2 through 4 will not be factors against Cal much longer, our recruiting will be better.

Global climate change an advantage for cal recruiting??

lol

While global climate change seems to have created shitty weather for CA in general, meaning less advantage for So Cal, I think it's offset by the warmer climates out of state and higher likelihood of players leaving CA. Sorry, felt like I had to continue this discussion haha

ICanHaasCheezburger;842074102 said:

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I've got to agree: never been sold on the notion of having to lock in your territory. It sounds logical on paper but think about decisions that non-athlete students make when deciding where to go to school. Tons of NCal kids at ucla and USC. I was from scal and went up to Cal (so did Alex Mack, DJax, etc). I think for some kids they just want to put some distance between themselves and their family. These are highly personal decisions and you can't just chalk up a local kid going out of town as a failure in recruiting.

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I also completely agree that "protecting your own backyard", etc. is mostly a myth or conventional wisdom. We need talent and it doesn't really matter where it comes from. There's a fair amount of talent here in NorCal and there's even more in SoCal, plus there's out-of-state. Any given coaching staff may have in-roads into any of those areas.

Have we recruited enough talent in recent years? No, but we've done pretty well.

Have we maximized our talent to produce victories? Obviously, that's the area where we've really fallen short.

When we lose top local talent to schools other than 'Furd, UCLA and U$C, oftentimes the player was not going to be a good "fit" at Cal, academically.

If we're looking for a recruiting maxim that's true, let's try, "It's not who your Top Five recruits are, it's who your 'Bottom Five' are", i.e. will they end up as solid contributors to the program?

Towards the end, I believe Tedford was "recruiting for stars" meaning spending too much time trying to grab "name" players in order to generate a little positive publicity for a dying program, at the expense of scouting for diamonds in the rough.

A modified version of the OP's premise might be that we should get most of the ones we want. In practice, I doubt that has happened often since the Waldorf era but it is certainly a goal I would support. As for those who believe the extreme north of the state is hiding significant numbers of quality DI prospects (Bigfoot in cleats?), I find that extremely doubtful. They now have this thing called the off-season camp. Players who never see a scout in the seats on game day have often been exposed in these camps. Maybe there's a stud in Hoopa who can't tear himself away from the family logging business to attend a camp in the summer but Ill bet Ray Maleauga found his way from Eureka to one. The paucity of DI prospects from the hinterlands has less to do with being under the radar than with the fact there just aren't many of them.