BearsWiin;842165797 said:

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It's up to the officials. And I expect they'll be looking for it going forward, and calling it if they see it.

Linemen try to get away with as much holding as possible without getting called for it. Defensive backs try to get away with as much bumping and handchecking as they can without getting called for it (OSU's aggressive DB play was a big reason Aaron Rodgers went 9 of 34 for 56 yards against the Beavers the week after Cal beat USC in 2003; Cal did something similar to UW in their victory in Seattle the year before). It's not unheard of to push the rules and challenge the referees to call you on it; in fact, it's rather common. Faking injuries is just the most recent thing, and it's a direct response to the hurry-up offense which is in itself an effort to push the rules on how fast you can get plays off.

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The quickest and easiest way to eliminate fake injuries would be either:

The defense starts to jump on any slight movement by the offense (eliminating the prairie dog pop-up bullshit that offenses do)

Refs can start just start calling false starts on movement when they do the pop-up without the D having to jump.


Either would stop the faking of injuries and would not require a change of rules.

You can still run the hurry up, you just cant get the call from the sideline while set.

Cal07;842165983 said:

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I'm not sure there is really any way to know if someone has a legitimate injury or a faux injury.

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Yes, there is. If an apparent "injury" occurs, a ref can monitor the on-field "treatment" of the player since player health is so important AND to monitor the possibility of faking as it impacts play. Impacting play and enforcement of the rules IS the responsibility of the refs. They can damn well track who is "injured" and why.

If dehydration is the problem, and dehydration can be serious, prevent the player from reentering the game unless the doctor okays his return. Protecting players is now a big deal, rightly so, but so is refereeing the game to ensure the quality of the game is protected.

they'd already be jumping on "prairie dogging" if the offense was set. You really think D coordinators would let that go if the could take advantage of that?

IMO, they need to implement playing time loss for injuries. If the training staff has to come out, you have to sit out the rest of a quarter or the next quarter if it happens with less than 2:00 left.

Phantomfan;842166006 said:

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The quickest and easiest way to eliminate fake injuries would be either:

The defense starts to jump on any slight movement by the offense (eliminating the prairie dog pop-up bullshit that offenses do)

Refs can start just start calling false starts on movement when they do the pop-up without the D having to jump.


Either would stop the faking of injuries and would not require a change of rules.

You can still run the hurry up, you just cant get the call from the sideline while set.

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Why does the sideline check bother you? The defense can check with their coaches too (and they do at plenty of places), so the offense doesn't gain an advantage the defense doesn't have. If the offense doesn't need to substitute to be successful and can get to the line fast, the onus should be on the defense to do the same thing. The clock's ticking, the offense should be able to put the ball in play as soon as they want to.

Just wait until the offense starts faking injuries in 2-minute situations with no time outs and time running out. There has to be a rule that injured players have to stay out for the rest of the series. There's no other way to solve this problem.

That's our "only defense"? Don't need a defense. That was cheating. I don't feel bad about booing at all. If all of us do it maybe the refs will call an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the opposing coach over and over. We are going to see this from other teams so get used to it. We can't be the only team that does this to Oregon. We just were too obvious and the game was too close. Imagine if Northwestern plays the Ducks in the Rose Bowl?
I would be LMFAO if Fitz pulls off that fake injury crap.

cubzwin;842166040 said:

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That's our "only defense"? Don't need a defense. That was cheating. I don't feel bad about booing at all. If all of us do it maybe the refs will call an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the opposing coach over and over. We are going to see this from other teams so get used to it. We can't be the only team that does this to Oregon. We just were too obvious and the game was too close. Imagine if Northwestern plays the Ducks in the Rose Bowl?
I would be LMFAO if Fitz pulls off that fake injury crap.

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At some point someone is going to lose it and aim to actually injure the fakers for real. The guys in the trenches get rolled up on all the time, after all...

The surprising thing is that this doesn't happen on offense. There was absolutely nothing stopping us from faking injuries in the 2-minute drill at the end of each half. Why call time-outs, spike the ball, run plays toward the sideline to get out of bounds, or pass instead of run so you don't burn clock? Just fake an injury.

This is something that has to be addressed or it will get ridiculous.

B.A. Bearacus;842165144 said:

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Drastic difference of opinion below. I know what I believe.

Dykes: "it was just unusual, seemed like every time we had a first down, they had an injury."

Fitz:"If anybody were to question the integrity of myself, our program or our players, I question theirs."

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Spoken like a true narcissist and demagogue. There are plenty in the HC ranks but I don't think Dykes is one of them-very proud of Cal under Dykes these days.

gobears725;842165194 said:

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glad dykes said that.

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+1
I think I'm developing some serious man-love for Dykes.
Let's put it this way: He is going to stand by us fans and Cal in general like nobody in recent memory. He is far cry from the overly polite guy we had ponchoing the sidelines before.

berk18;842166033 said:

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Why does the sideline check bother you? The defense can check with their coaches too (and they do at plenty of places), so the offense doesn't gain an advantage the defense doesn't have. If the offense doesn't need to substitute to be successful and can get to the line fast, the onus should be on the defense to do the same thing. The clock's ticking, the offense should be able to put the ball in play as soon as they want to.

Just wait until the offense starts faking injuries in 2-minute situations with no time outs and time running out. There has to be a rule that injured players have to stay out for the rest of the series. There's no other way to solve this problem.

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It bothers me because it is the entire offense being set, then moving. That is a false start.

CalBearsWinNC;842165508 said:

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And we still cannot complain. If we were innocent, we could talk but we're not.

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This doesn't absolve Northwestern who we owed nothing to. If Oregon had done this that would have been one thing. And how is this deserved? Dykes and Co. had nothing to do with the crap that JT/Lupoi pulled.

Phantomfan;842166050 said:

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It bothers me because it is the entire offense being set, then moving. That is a false start.

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What does this have to do with fake injuries? There's a rule in place for offenses that try to draw defenders off-sides or that try to get moving before the defense can (namely, the false start rule). We can modify or enforce that rule, but it has nothing to do with defensive substitutions and tempo, which are the issues that lead to fake injuries.

Phantomfan;842165791 said:

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So, when Oregon ran a pick and injured our best corner (who didnt return for two weeks) it was OK for them to boo because the "know what [they] saw?"

Ridiculous.

Your last two posts are pretty damn stupid.

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Phantom: There is a difference between booing when a player is down as Oregon fans did and booing after the player has gotten up and is clearly fine. You are a better man than me but I'm booing the second thing, especially when they fell down after there was no contact. And especially after it has happened multiple times after a first down with the opposing team's offense in a rhythm. Most Cal fans around me at the game did not boo at first. It was after about 3 times that they started to boo and only under the second case mentioned above. There were plenty of times when a Northwestern player was down and stayed down after contact. In such cases there were no Cal fans booing.

Serves purpose of ensuring health of "injured" player and deters flopping.

Berzerker1;842166064 said:

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Serves purpose of ensuring health of "injured" player and deters flopping.

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First idea I really like.

A rule change is definitely needed but do we really want that when we consider that it is the NCAA that will be making the rule?

Phantomfan;842166006 said:

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The quickest and easiest way to eliminate fake injuries would be either:

The defense starts to jump on any slight movement by the offense (eliminating the prairie dog pop-up bullshit that offenses do)

Refs can start just start calling false starts on movement when they do the pop-up without the D having to jump.


Either would stop the faking of injuries and would not require a change of rules.

You can still run the hurry up, you just cant get the call from the sideline while set.

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I've often wondered why some enterprising DL coach out there hasn't instructed his DL to charge across the line en masse when an offense does that. Not necessarily to get free shots on the OL while they're in the process of standing up, but to make a point (yours) that it's a false start and they're fair game. If the DL gets flagged for it, lodge a formal protest with whatever league office and force them to make an explicit statement either explaining why it is not a false start and thus OK, or that it does constitute a false start and it's going to be called as such.

Calcoholic;842165690 said:

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I think we have every right to complain. We had one rogue assistant coach who acted without JT's authority.

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I'm amazed anyone still actually believes JT was innocent on this.

[Original image source]

CalBearsWinNC;842165508 said:

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And we still cannot complain. If we were innocent, we could talk but we're not.

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So we carry this burden into infinity? We got caught and we were punished. As far as I know we have not done it since that Oregon game. So we can't complain because we did it three years ago? What a moronic statement you made.

bar20;842166136 said:

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So we carry this burden into infinity?

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Yes. The disgraceful faking that Dykes, Buh, and Sacks allowed to happen on the field of Memorial Stadium in 2010 will not, and should not, ever be forgotten or forgiven.

StillABear;842165384 said:

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The NCAA needs to review and step in immediately before this becomes a travesty and a seriously hurt player gets booed, which is deplorable.

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I have just one question then. Will the Northwestern injuries be covered under Obamacare?

B.A. Bearacus;842166116 said:

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[Original image source]

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pure genius on the finds

BearsWiin;842166103 said:

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I've often wondered why some enterprising DL coach out there hasn't instructed his DL to charge across the line en masse when an offense does that. Not necessarily to get free shots on the OL while they're in the process of standing up, but to make a point (yours) that it's a false start and they're fair game. If the DL gets flagged for it, lodge a formal protest with whatever league office and force them to make an explicit statement either explaining why it is not a false start and thus OK, or that it does constitute a false start and it's going to be called as such.

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It's real simple: only offensive linemen and anyone else on the LOS are required to stay set until the snap. At no time during last night's game was Cal's OL doing anything that resembled prairie dogging. Oh, sure, there were false starts. But all of the prairie dogging was done by the backs.

Any back (including a slot receiver or a flanker not lined up on the LOS) can go in motion at any time before the snap provided that only one man is in motion at a time. They are not required to stay set (that is, in a three-point stance) until the snap.

What Phantomfan suggests will result in the defense being called for either (1) being offsides by contact or (2) encroachment.

Come on, guys. It's all in the rule book. And it should be common football sense.

Having read thru this thread and rewatching the game tonight, I thought the NU defensive players were drama queens and faking the injuries. Even the sideline reporter on the telecast reported that the injured players came off the filed and no one stayed near them. No medical or coaching staff and they never sat down.

The announcers also were talking about what the refs could call but never did. SD on tv was giving it to them, so I wouldn't be surprised that this game is reviewed someplace.

As far as penalties, I'm not sure a 2:00 minute gametime penalty or set number of plays would be manageable. How about the injured player must miss the rest of the series until a change of possession? That could be one play or 10+. If they want to fake an injury it will cost them the use of that player for the series. Easier for the refs to track. # 92 can't come back in the game for that series, which means he would missed the 4th quarter last night. :facepalm

Good for coach Dykes speaking his mind on this. It was freaking obvious!

gobears725;842166185 said:

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pure genius on the finds

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Can't take credit for the spotting of joviality in this shot. I can only take credit for adding an arrow.

Sitting out the remainder of the series is by far the best solution. It's not too long, but long enough to be a deterrent. Besides, any actual injury most likely needs that much time for a real evaluation anyway.

Most importantly, it's also easily to enforce.

NVGolfingBear;842166208 said:

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Even the sideline reporter on the telecast reported that the injured players came off the filed and no one stayed near them. No medical or coaching staff and they never sat down.

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I see you managed not to notice how at the exact same time he was saying that the camera was showing an NU player who had just come off being attended to by a trainer on the sideline.

well there was at least 1 instance where it was blatant. the player "injured" his leg,went to the ground, waited for the trainers on the ground, limped off and then proceeded to change his mind on what was hurt on the sideline and started favoring his shoulder. he was back in the game two plays later

Purpleperson;842166248 said:

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I see you managed not to notice how at the exact same time he was saying that the camera was showing an NU player who had just come off being attended to by a trainer on the sideline.

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Your team is that soft?

CalBearsWinNC;842165465 said:

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We have no room to talk. We started it. I cannot blame NU. Smart strategy IMO.

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Actually, we did NOT start it...a few games before , a Furd player faked it FAR worse than Cal did. The problem was that his horrific acting led to more outrage later.