bearister;842212945 said:
You're right. I'm watching him play the Kings tonight. I apologize.
MrBerkeley;842212998 said:
I thought the Kline crowd was bad, but as the season has progressed, I realize the Goff crowd is even worse. It's like watching a high school offensive coordinator parent selfishly supporting their QB child by calling only passing plays and refusing to sit them. Cal football this season has been hijacked by a handful of fakes who call themselves fans of the team. The rest of the team, the fans, the university are being held hostage by excuses.
This is going to come off snarky but this is what I've been thinking as the season has progressed to this point.
#1 Goff starts the season.
Goff Supporter (GF) argument: Well, coaches decided Goff> Kline in practice. (Pretend this is why you support Goff)
My thoughts: Sure, we'll give Goff a shot. Coaches probably know better. (I thought at this time only Kline supporters blindly backed their candidates and Goff supporters were reasonable).
#2 Goff fumbles the ball.
GS argument: "It's because he's a freshman and is adjusting."
My thoughts: Fumbling? Well nerves I guess. You might be right, but I doubt it. Still isn't an excuse, maybe a reason, but not an excuse. W/e. I guess we have no choice but to trust the coaches.
#3 Goff has a good game.
GS argument: "See! Goff is amazing."
My thoughts: We are super lucky to have Goff. If he develops, we will have a great future. I hope Kline sticks around for the sake of the team and continues to develop. Good to have a solid backup QB.
#4 Goff repeatedly has bad games, fumbles, and keeps throwing Longshore interceptions.
GS argument: "It's everyone else's fault but that of Goff (aka your kid or your friend's kid). The running backs suck. The O-line sucks. The defense sucks."
My thoughts: Yeah, they kind of suck. So does Goff... he keeps fumbling and throwing bad interceptions. Stop trying to argue otherwise. You're basically calling me stupid to my face when you say Goff doesn't have issues. It might be other stuff INCLUDING Goff but Goff is clearly PART of the problem.
#5 Goff continues to fumble
GS argument: (Don't want to admit that you specifically want Goff to be the answer and so you go into flounder mode trying to defend the ridiculous fumbles and interceptions because you're butt hurt Goff isn't panning out.)
-"We won't win a game anyway" (WTF kind of excuse is this? So we fold the season to prepare for Goff our savior, aka your kid?)
-"Defense sucks" (How much do you despise my football IQ to tell me the offense sucks because the defense sucks. Yeah we might still lose. But last time I checked the offense is separate from the defense. Field position might be the only thing that matters but considering we go 3 and out starting on our 20, it's NOT the defense why our offense sucks.)
-"We need Goff to start for next year to make the system work or give Goff more (and more! )practice (and more!)" to develop. (and more!)" (cause we really want our kid Goff to do well).
-"Kline is not the answer!" (that was from your heart and not from your head. you have little evidence to make that kind of assessment with your head)
-"Coaches said so." (How freaking convenient. You don't support Goff because the coaches support Goff. Who the F can't see through this **** already).
-"Support the program." (I support smokers by supporting them as they try to quit. Not by supporting their smoking. We are going the wrong direction and I reject this argument. We need to quit going the wrong way).
My thoughts: Look. I am sorry about your kid Goff not doing well. I have no idea if Kline will do better. I don't have anything personal against either. However, the familiar "Kline is not the answer" response gives me the impression of the "just because" kind of reason one gives when you don't want/ don't care to know about other options. You have become worse than the Kline fan, or rather, you were always worse. You just pretended otherwise because things panned out your way from the start.
I care less about what Goff/Kline needs to get in the NFL. I am not a parent of either. I care about the team and about Cal. They are here to play for this team FIRST. If they play well, they will go to the NFL and they deserve it and I support it. But Goff isn't good enough RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT to be the declared starter for the rest of the season (and the next). Dykes is full of bullshit for this reason. Let's throw away this season and the next one too. In Goff's final season he will have an amazing resume of 1 billion yards and a **** ton of TDs so he can go to the NFL. Mission accomplished. WTF. If there was any objectivity in this, we would have started Kline already and if he had sucked, then we could have gone back to Goff. If Dykes doesn't take us to the Rose Bowl in 2 seasons, fire Sandy and Dykes. If Goff doesn't pan out, fire Sandy and Dykes. Dykes chained his fate to the success of Goff.
You want me to emotionally invest in this bullshit season? I will not invest in some personal project for Dykes or his OC or Goff's parents or Goff's parent's friends among the alumni. I don't blame the student section for not showing up this game. That was a brilliant one fingered salute to shameless posters on this forum, the coaching staff, and the administration for despising everyone else. For people who say they want to win, I think it's obvious that you want to win with your people, not win period. We are Egypt's democratic movement hijacked and going nowhere. I feel so helpless against this garbage. I'm not really upset about the season at all. I've seen bad seasons. But I am disgusted with the way the team is being handled. We're sunk with this captain and his supporters among the crew. They don't care if the program hits an iceberg as long as the captain's son gets his 50 hours of steering.
annarborbear;842213006 said:
If you have good seats, can I have your season tickets for the next couple of years? I simply like to support whichever kids are wearing our school colors. They deserve that as part of their own Cal experience.
MrBerkeley;842212998 said:
I thought the Kline crowd was bad, but as the season has progressed, I realize the Goff crowd is even worse. It's like watching a high school offensive coordinator parent selfishly supporting their QB child by calling only passing plays and refusing to sit them. Cal football this season has been hijacked by a handful of fakes who call themselves fans of the team. The rest of the team, the fans, the university are being held hostage by excuses.
This is going to come off snarky but this is what I’ve been thinking as the season has progressed to this point.
#1 Goff starts the season.
Goff Supporter (GF) argument: Well, coaches decided Goff> Kline in practice. (Pretend this is why you support Goff)
My thoughts: Sure, we'll give Goff a shot. Coaches probably know better. (I thought at this time only Kline supporters blindly backed their candidates and Goff supporters were reasonable).
#2 Goff fumbles the ball.
GS argument: "It's because he's a freshman and is adjusting."
My thoughts: Fumbling? Well nerves I guess. You might be right, but I doubt it. Still isn't an excuse, maybe a reason, but not an excuse. W/e. I guess we have no choice but to trust the coaches.
#3 Goff has a good game.
GS argument: “See! Goff is amazing.”
My thoughts: We are super lucky to have Goff. If he develops, we will have a great future. I hope Kline sticks around for the sake of the team and continues to develop. Good to have a solid backup QB.
#4 Goff repeatedly has bad games, fumbles, and keeps throwing Longshore interceptions.
GS argument: "It's everyone else's fault but that of Goff (aka your kid or your friend's kid). The running backs suck. The O-line sucks. The defense sucks."
My thoughts: Yeah, they kind of suck. So does Goff... he keeps fumbling and throwing bad interceptions. Stop trying to argue otherwise. You're basically calling me stupid to my face when you say Goff doesn't have issues. It might be other stuff INCLUDING Goff but Goff is clearly PART of the problem.
#5 Goff continues to fumble…
GS argument: (Don't want to admit that you specifically want Goff to be the answer and so you go into flounder mode trying to defend the ridiculous fumbles and interceptions because you're butt hurt Goff isn't panning out.)
-"We won't win a game anyway" (WTF kind of excuse is this? So we fold the season to prepare for Goff our savior, aka your kid?)
-“Defense sucks” (How much do you despise my football IQ to tell me the offense sucks because the defense sucks. Yeah we might still lose. But last time I checked the offense is separate from the defense. Field position might be the only thing that matters but considering we go 3 and out starting on our 20, it’s NOT the defense why our offense sucks.)
-"We need Goff to start for next year to make the system work or give Goff more (and more! )practice (and more!)" to develop. (and more!)" (cause we really want our kid Goff to do well).
-"Kline is not the answer!" (that was from your heart and not from your head. you have little evidence to make that kind of assessment with your head)
-"Coaches said so." (How freaking convenient. You don't support Goff because the coaches support Goff. Who the F can't see through this **** already).
-"Support the program." (I support smokers by supporting them as they try to quit. Not by supporting their smoking. We are going the wrong direction and I reject this argument. We need to quit going the wrong way).
My thoughts: Look. I am sorry about your kid Goff not doing well. I have no idea if Kline will do better. I don’t have anything personal against either. However, the familiar “Kline is not the answer” response gives me the impression of the “just because” kind of reason one gives when you don’t want/ don’t care to know about other options. You have become worse than the Kline fan, or rather, you were always worse. You just pretended otherwise because things panned out your way from the start.
I care less about what Goff/Kline needs to get in the NFL. I am not a parent of either. I care about the team and about Cal. They are here to play for this team FIRST. If they play well, they will go to the NFL and they deserve it and I support it. But Goff isn't good enough RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT to be the declared starter for the rest of the season (and the next). Dykes is full of bullshit for this reason. Let’s throw away this season and the next one too. In Goff’s final season he will have an amazing resume of 1 billion yards and a **** ton of TDs so he can go to the NFL. Mission accomplished. WTF. If there was any objectivity in this, we would have started Kline already and if he had sucked, then we could have gone back to Goff. If Dykes doesn't take us to the Rose Bowl in 2 seasons, fire Sandy and Dykes. If Goff doesn’t pan out, fire Sandy and Dykes. Dykes chained his fate to the success of Goff.
You want me to emotionally invest in this bullshit season? I will not invest in some personal project for Dykes or his OC or Goff’s parents or Goff’s parent’s friends among the alumni. I don’t blame the student section for not showing up this game. That was a brilliant one fingered salute to shameless posters on this forum, the coaching staff, and the administration for despising everyone else. For people who say they want to win, I think it’s obvious that you want to win with your people, not win period. We are Egypt’s democratic movement… hijacked and going nowhere. I feel so helpless against this garbage. I'm not really upset about the season at all. I've seen bad seasons. But I am disgusted with the way the team is being handled. We're sunk with this captain and his supporters among the crew. They don't care if the program hits an iceberg as long as the captain's son gets his 50 hours of steering.
freshfunk;842213021 said:
MrBerkeley, thank you. I think that's a pretty accurate assessment.
Like you, I have no allegiance to either. But a few games ago I felt that I had seen enough of Goff to give Kline a real chance. I didn't like being labeled a Kline fanboy because I wasn't rooting for Goff or Kline, but Cal.
From the little that Kline has shown, it seems like it would be worth giving him a chance. Alas, Sonny has chosen his path.
I really don't care too much for the debate anymore. Ultimately the fault lies in the decision maker (Sonny and coaches).
My only hope is that Rosen or Rubenzer are the second coming and win out next year (assuming Kline is gone and Goff had little/marginal improvement).
CalifoniaGoldenBearAid;842212603 said:
Goff has thrown yards yes, but can't win games. First game with a TD with first string Defense in who knows how long. But came with two picks and should have been several more. No leadership, makes more decisions. Idk guys. I'm over the season. We r stuck with sonnys decision unfortunately. I didn't see the game today (direct tv at work only). Someone with more insight, plz feel free
theother1btf;842213213 said:
goff is a true freshmen playing behind a bad o-line with a weak running game to support him. He's playing pretty damn good under the circumstances. Kline would not fair any better.
TheOther1BTF;842213213 said:
Goff is a true freshmen playing behind a bad O-Line with a weak running game to support him. He's playing pretty damn good under the circumstances. Kline would not fair any better.
MiltyBear;842213171 said:
I quoted FF since his post was shortest, but I agree with MrBerkeley 100%
It really feels like our program has been hijacked by a couple of snake oil salesman more intent on showcasing their product which may or may not even be a good product, but sounds good on paper. Now everything looks ridiculously obvious that these coaches are here just for their personal gains, if they can produce passing records, create freshman QB legends, etc. It's like me playing NCAA football by EA passing a thousand times to have my QB throw for 5000 yards. These coaches don't care about Cal, don't care about the long term future for the program, and definitely doesn't care about whether Cal football even exists past the 3 years that they're here. As far as fixing the academics, all I see is lip service and forcing players out instead of working to help them graduate. It's a total nuking of the program as far as academics go, and Cal shouldn't be like this. This is not keeping up Cal's end of the bargain when these players signed up to play for Cal, with the expectation that they will be supported to graduate, since 90% of these players won't have any meaningful professional football career after Cal.
Sandy got sold, hard, and the program is diving off a cliff because of her hire.
I hate these coaches, more than I hated even Tom Holmoe after 3 years of him while I was in school. Holmoe was a bumbling fool out there, but he was our fool. I don't feel a shred of empathy or connection towards Dykes and TF. Heck I even appreciate Buh a little more now, at least I feel like he's actually trying to perform his job.
TheSouseFamily;842213259 said:
I assume you didn't watch the game yesterday. Goff throws a very wobbly ball, is an extremely limited as a runner and makes bad reads (like the last interception where he throws into triple coverage with a man wide open). After the first game, I was impressed with Goff but that first game appears to be an aberration. Dykes has shaken up every other position to see what he's got roster-wise except for QB and his stubborn loyalty to Goff is becoming increasingly bizarre, frankly.
If nothing else, even if he is THE guy, wouldn't Goff benefit for a series or two on the sidelines just to see the game from a different perspective and view how opponents are scheming us? And lastly, I don't understand the "Kline wouldn't do any better" argument. He hasn't had all the reps and game experience that Goff has ha and yet he still looks better. The whole situation just seems strange.
NYCGOBEARS;842213265 said:
Goff is a very young QB making many mistakes. He certainly made some poor choices yesterday and will learn from them. He will be an outstanding player sooner rather than later.
bearister;842213321 said:
"Goff, with 289 passing yards, jumped over six players on Cal's single season top-10 passing list into the No. 5 spot at 2,881.
He needs to average 206.3 yards the rest of the season to break Pat Barns' 1996 school record of 3,499."
-Contra Costa Times 11/03/13
Looperbear;842213354 said:
This, the passing records, appears to be what the coaching staff cares about.
Looperbear;842213354 said:
This, the passing records, appears to be what the coaching staff cares about.
TheSouseFamily;842213259 said:
Dykes has shaken up every other position to see what he's got roster-wise except for QB and his stubborn loyalty to Goff is becoming increasingly bizarre, frankly.
Davidson;842212616 said:
Goff isnt the problem and Kline isnt the solution,
Just FYI
sycasey;842212730 said:
Very true. The silver lining is that Goff is a freshman, while Maynard was a senior.
Irishbear;842212740 said:
Hide your dogs.
heartofthebear;842213414 said:
Agree and would add that Goff isn't the long term solution either unless he remakes his body to either have the speed or strength to avoid sacks. No sacks today but he also was tentative in the pocket because, IMO, he feels too vulnerable.
Pushing my chips in for Rubenzer in 2014 and beyond.
heartofthebear;842213454 said:
The problem with Goff is that he plays just well enough to start given that his supposed replacement, Kline, practices just poor enough for Goff to start.
Great WRs notwithstanding, Goff is a very good passer. But there is a difference between a passer and a QB, especially these days. Pure passers like Fouts and Marino would never even make it in college these days. Neither will Goff if he doesn't become a QB as it is defined today.
A quality QB needs to...
[LIST=1]Lead by example, taking advantage of opportunities during the game to give the team chance to win. Lead in the locker room by being outgoing and developing relationships with the other players so that confidence and motivation is elevated Move in the pocket and buy time to extend plays Be strong and/or quick enough to fight off sacks Be effecient: Throw the ball away instead of throw an INT or take a loss Throw every kind of pass Elevate play at critical times Play better in games than in practice
I have a feeling that Kline is better than Goff in these ways, except the aspects that involve pure passing.
While I am also concerned that TF may be a bit of a salesman, I also question the logic of those that think he cares more about stats than wins.
Part of his spiel is that the only stat that matters is wins. So why would this season help him sell anything? I would think potential buyers would throw our W/L record in his face.
heartofthebear;842213420 said:
Regardless of Goff, the silver lining is that Maynard is gone.
sycasey;842213395 said:
Well, I can see a reason for it. And before I start, let me just say that I would also like to see Kline get some kind of extended audition in a live game . . . but I can see why the QB position has not been "shaken up" as others have been.
None of the other positions carries the responsibility the QB position does. The other positions do not have to call plays in the huddle, check the defense at the line of scrimmage, and handle the ball on nearly EVERY play (okay, the Center handles the ball on every play too, but I think we all know why that's different). Given this, I can see why coaches are more loath to make a change at QB, though they shuttle players in and out all the time at other positions. You put a new guy in there and you are dealing with training a whole new field general. And yes, I know that to some extent all of the QBs "should" be trained and ready to step in, but let's be realistic -- practice time is limited and the first string gets the most attention. That's just how it is.
Likening a QB change to changes at other positions is not acknowledging the larger reality of how football works. Again, I'm not against giving Kline a start or extended duty in a live game (because at this point this season is basically a training ground for next season anyway), but I also know from watching a lot of football that (1) the backup QB is typically the most popular player on a losing team and (2) when the backup gets in there most of the time he is not better than the starter. Fans like to think that the "next guy" could do better (since it gives them hope that a hard season could be made better), but the hard reality is that usually the best guy was already playing.
Cal89;842213372 said:
And if that truly is indeed the case, or even a factor, I find it very bothersome. I had shared a few weeks back that this was seemingly the case. The thought of personnel decisions being made, influenced by records, or what will help elevate the System, is unsettling...
While we all felt that we knew what we were getting into with TF and the TFS, if it is to this extreme, dare I say in the conflict of interest realm, we have a serious problem here.
Gosh, even if the record were something meaningful like wins by a freshman QB, or statistically relevant toward such (winning games) like completion percentage or QBR, it would still raise an eyebrow. The easiest way to get more passing yards is to throw more often. BFD. If the rest of QB's in college football threw as much, his total yards would be like the rest of his stats - less than average to poor...
Go!Bears;842212732 said:
Is a Freshman. I'd love to see Kline, but what do you expect from a Frosh? BTW, Kline is also Freshman. I suspect he might not yet be all-American caliber, either.
JSML;842213886 said:
The problem is not that Goff is young, it's that the whole offense is young and inexperienced, and learning a new system. It's like trotting out the freshman - sophomore team every week against someone's varsity team.
Goff is the better QB with the higher upside. Sonny is willing to stake his job on it and that speaks loudly. Let Sonny make the decisions and be accountable for what he does.
No matter what anyone says, I believe Sonny and Tony Franklin are very motivated to do well at Cal and to keep their jobs and they will act accordingly.
Here on BI, we don't have our jobs or reputations at stake. Sure it's frustrating and fans gripe when things are not going well. I just don't like seeing how Sonny is "idiotic" or "strange" for not putting Kline in. Fans often have the thinnest of facts and knowledge.
My personal belief: Goff is talented. He will be the first Cal QB since AR to be on an NFL roster. Not at all concerned about his passing turnovers or his fourth down turnovers. Every QB throws turnovers, even Super Bowl QBs can throw 2,3 or 4 a game. It will improve as everyone on the team learns the system better. WRs too. He needs to clean up his fumbles after being hit or not hit. He needs to take more sacks instead of trying to make a play. He will be more than just fine next year, not solely because of his improvement but more so the whole team's improvement under this system.
