Cal doesn't have a lot of history of playing true Freshmen. He's playing like a true frosh, and a very good one considering. He's also not getting much help up front - same for the RBs.

I find it funny people here complain about all the passes we're throwing and then act like the improvement we're seeing in our receivers is happening by magic, like these receivers fell from the sky into Sonny's lap and the reps in games don't mean anything, they just suddenly learned how to block and catch tough passes they were dropping earlier in the year.

All in all, Goff a good true freshman QB put in a very difficult situation. He's learning a lot and has a lot to learn. It'll be fun to watch him develop. And as the OLine develops and can establish a more consistent pass protection and running game that will make him look even better.

He's a guy with some skills that plays in a system that pads numbers. He doesn't have the benefit of a running game or OL. And he makes freshman mistakes.

MiltyBear;842213863 said:

---

I thought the Center handles the play calls in this offense? I thought this offense was so easy that any QB can come in and run it?

You need to stop reaching to make excuses for Dykes and TFS because it's obvious what they're trying to do here. Winning a game in 2013 or even 2014 is #98 and 99 down their totem pole of goals.

---

Yes. And we've switched centers 3 times. All QB does is run the play, which along with not ever being under center, is what will keep them out of pros.

What do you know??? Please tell us.

freshfunk;842212989 said:

---

What concerns me is that Goff doesn't looked like he's gotten any better since game 1. Yes, there are many factors to consider but, at the end of the day, I'm not seeing significant improvement.

Next year he won't have the freshman or first-year-in-the-system excuse. Even the OL and run game has seen minor improvements over the course of the season.

Maybe he'll improve over the off season. I won't discount that. I just don't have any confidence in that happening given the trajectory of the season.

---

What do want? 350-400 per game? Impossible who does that? Playing
from behind defense knowing they are throwing ever play. The kid will be fine. Be patient. Tired of the nah Sayers. Don't want to hear from ya when Bears are killin it next few years.

The very kind of twisted logic that I pointed out in my first post is on full display in the posts following mine. Should we all just CONVENIENTLY ignore facts, such as Milty's very good point that this offense is supposed to run without Goff calling plays? I myself was going to comment on this yesterday but its obvious few really care to be honest here, instead making blanket statements of blind support.

Kline may very well suck, but statements such as "Goff plays just well enough and Kline plays just poorly enough?" This is subjective...." Goff will be the first QB on an NFL roster" is not only subjective, it's also a bunch of bullshit. He fumbles all the time. He will NOT be drafted if this fumbling continues regardless of how many passing yards he has. He throws INTs like Longshore with an injury...

Arguing that it's because he's a freshman? That should have no bearing on whether he starts. When Goff started over Kline, I heard all this bullshit about how this would help recruiting. "If a freshman is better, he will play." In reality, its probably truer to say "if a freshman is named Goff, he will play regardless, because we're going to excuse everything since he's a freshman, coddle him with the playbook and the fans, go against common sense, throw the season away, throw the rest of the team under the bus, argue the defense, RB, O-line (they're all kids TOO) suck but Goff, you can't say he sucks because he's just a kid and a freshman and you might hurt his feelings!"

Stop coddling this guy. Yes, he's a kid. He's a freshman. Why is he different than any other player on this team you biased people? You argue the WR dropped the ball. You argue the WRs are only looking like NFL caliber WR because Goff was amazing.... You pick and choose your arguments. Everybody but Goff is at fault. At what point do you guys intend to stop being so shameless? Aren't you embarrassed already?

The QB in this system just follows the play that is called. He does NOT audible. He does not do anything but stick to the game plan. Goff had the already simple playbook simplified even more. Talk about spoon feeding. Who is his daddy? Has to be some big time alumnus with a big paycheck. Keep twisting the facts to make a story...

I hope the program is salvageable when this is over.

Goff isn't perfect but he's obviously got talent. This is not Maynard or Ayoob. I understand the arguments for giving Kline a look. But there's at least as much justification for going with Goff. There's plenty to grumble about with this staff. This QB debate strikes me as being fairly low on the list.

tequila4kapp;842214481 said:

---

There's plenty to grumble about with this staff. This QB debate strikes me as being fairly low on the list.

---

Then you don't know much about football.


It's actually, the #1 reason the offense is one of the worst in the country.

MrBerkeley;842214478 said:

---

The very kind of twisted logic that I pointed out in my first post is on full display in the posts following mine. Should we all just CONVENIENTLY ignore facts, such as Milty's very good point that this offense is supposed to run without Goff calling plays? I myself was going to comment on this yesterday but its obvious few really care to be honest here, instead making blanket statements of blind support.

Kline may very well suck, but statements such as "Goff plays just well enough and Kline plays just poorly enough?" This is subjective...." Goff will be the first QB on an NFL roster" is not only subjective, it's also a bunch of bullshit. He fumbles all the time. He will NOT be drafted if this fumbling continues regardless of how many passing yards he has. He throws INTs like Longshore with an injury...

Arguing that it's because he's a freshman? That should have no bearing on whether he starts. When Goff started over Kline, I heard all this bullshit about how this would help recruiting. "If a freshman is better, he will play." In reality, its probably truer to say "if a freshman is named Goff, he will play regardless, because we're going to excuse everything since he's a freshman, coddle him with the playbook and the fans, go against common sense, throw the season away, throw the rest of the team under the bus, argue the defense, RB, O-line (they're all kids TOO) suck but Goff, you can't say he sucks because he's just a kid and a freshman and you might hurt his feelings!"

Stop coddling this guy. Yes, he's a kid. He's a freshman. Why is he different than any other player on this team you biased people? You argue the WR dropped the ball. You argue the WRs are only looking like NFL caliber WR because Goff was amazing.... You pick and choose your arguments. Everybody but Goff is at fault. At what point do you guys intend to stop being so shameless? Aren't you embarrassed already?

The QB in this system just follows the play that is called. He does NOT audible. He does not do anything but stick to the game plan. Goff had the already simple playbook simplified even more. Talk about spoon feeding. Who is his daddy? Has to be some big time alumnus with a big paycheck. Keep twisting the facts to make a story...

I hope the program is salvageable when this is over.

---

:bravo
:bravo


Best post of the year.

Because its so wrong ?

MrBerkeley;842214478 said:

---

The very kind of twisted logic that I pointed out in my first post is on full display in the posts following mine. Should we all just CONVENIENTLY ignore facts, such as Milty's very good point that this offense is supposed to run without Goff calling plays? I myself was going to comment on this yesterday but its obvious few really care to be honest here, instead making blanket statements of blind support.

Kline may very well suck, but statements such as "Goff plays just well enough and Kline plays just poorly enough?" This is subjective...." Goff will be the first QB on an NFL roster" is not only subjective, it's also a bunch of bullshit. He fumbles all the time. He will NOT be drafted if this fumbling continues regardless of how many passing yards he has. He throws INTs like Longshore with an injury...

Arguing that it's because he's a freshman? That should have no bearing on whether he starts. When Goff started over Kline, I heard all this bullshit about how this would help recruiting. "If a freshman is better, he will play." In reality, its probably truer to say "if a freshman is named Goff, he will play regardless, because we're going to excuse everything since he's a freshman, coddle him with the playbook and the fans, go against common sense, throw the season away, throw the rest of the team under the bus, argue the defense, RB, O-line (they're all kids TOO) suck but Goff, you can't say he sucks because he's just a kid and a freshman and you might hurt his feelings!"

Stop coddling this guy. Yes, he's a kid. He's a freshman. Why is he different than any other player on this team you biased people? You argue the WR dropped the ball. You argue the WRs are only looking like NFL caliber WR because Goff was amazing.... You pick and choose your arguments. Everybody but Goff is at fault. At what point do you guys intend to stop being so shameless? Aren't you embarrassed already?

The QB in this system just follows the play that is called. He does NOT audible. He does not do anything but stick to the game plan. Goff had the already simple playbook simplified even more. Talk about spoon feeding. Who is his daddy? Has to be some big time alumnus with a big paycheck. Keep twisting the facts to make a story...

I hope the program is salvageable when this is over.

---

MrBerkeley is back with the passion! I used the description "kid gloves" a week or so back... To a degree, I get, but the coddling has been of puke-able variety
:bigpuke:

Many loyal Old Blues were lost by SD's recent comments. We all saw vs OSU Kline get called in after another bed crapping performance. He again performs better and ends the next week of practice, by all accounts, very strong. Not only does he not get the starting nod, SD lays down the law, essentially saying 'leave me the F alone, Goff starts here on out.' Heels dug in baby...

Muncie;842214482 said:

---

Then you don't know much about football.

It's actually, the #1 reason the offense is one of the worst in the country.

---

I was very tempted to respond in kind with a snarky comment about your knowledge. Instead I'll try to stay civil and simply say we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion the OL is the biggest problem, the reason our offense is terrible, and it isn't even close. There are a lot of effects from that cause - all of which are detrimental to the offense's effectiveness - including the quality of QB play.

tequila4kapp;842214496 said:

---

I was very tempted to respond in kind with a snarky comment about your knowledge. Instead I'll try to stay civil and simply say we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion the OL is the biggest problem, the reason our offense is terrible, and it isn't even close. There are a lot of effects from that cause - all of which are detrimental to the offense's effectiveness - including the quality of QB play.

---

T4K, thanks for the civility. I'm sure it was not exactly easy...

I agree on the OL. I hope truly hope that it's something fixable at this level, as opposed to being an inherent flaw with the System at this level of play. Time will tell of course...

That said, there should still be quest to find a way to improve, not just give-up saying the offensive line is bad. The best way to find and pinpoint a problem is through proper troubleshooting. That means keeping everything the same, and then making a change, noting any differences. The O line is what it is, which is not good. But how a different QB sees and reacts to the same situation, like a pocket breaking down, having that spatial awareness, and making a nice move and play can be very noteworthy.

Not by design, we were afforded that opportunity in both Oregon games. Same O line for us, our same running game, same D on the other side - different QB. We immediately saw improvement, ie, chain moving drives and scores.

Goff is our guy, now and going forward. Yup. We touch everyone else on this team in every way possible, but not the QB. The one most impactful position of the field is untouchable...

tequila4kapp;842214496 said:

---

In my opinion the OL is the biggest problem, the reason our offense is terrible, and it isn't even close.

---

That's odd.

That horrible OL helped the team rush for an average of 5.0 yards per carry last game... and 4.5 yards per carry the week before.

One of the BEST rushing teams in the country(Arizona) only averaged 3.7 yards a carry against us. They most have a "really" bad OL.


Something else that's odd... with that "horrible" OL of Arizona's... their QB somehow out performed our QB and WON the game.


It must be some kind of "miracle" or something... because he was also sacked 3 or 4 times in the game and Goff wasn't sacked at all.



Yeah, the OL is certainly the problem... not Goff.

Jnlj19;842214463 said:

---

What do want? 350-400 per game? Impossible who does that? Playing
from behind defense knowing they are throwing ever play. The kid will be fine. Be patient. Tired of the nah Sayers. Don't want to hear from ya when Bears are killin it next few years.

---

I've seen your posts for a while now. Since I'm finally responding to one, how about coming clean, to us all.

You are Goff family. Pop I take it? It's obvious by the username.

The kid will be fine... Say your son will be fine.

Sorry, but I find this to be a very bush-league stunt. Crap, Zach's dad came on here too a while back, but at least he announced who he was...

Do I or we want 350 to 400 yards a game? Who gives a crap about yards any more. We want sustained drives and scores. But if the QB in this system is throwing 50 and even 60+ times a game, 350 to 400 yards should be expected!

Muncie;842214505 said:

---

That's odd.

That horrible OL helped the team rush for an average of 5.0 yards per carry last game... and 4.5 yards per carry the week before.

One of the BEST rushing teams in the country(Arizona) only averaged 3.7 yards a carry against us. They most have a "really" bad OL.

Something else that's odd... with that "horrible" OL of Arizona's... their QB somehow out performed our QB and WON the game.

It must be some kind of "miracle" or something... because he was also sacked 3 or 4 times in the game and Goff wasn't sacked at all.

Yeah, the OL is certainly the problem... not Goff.

---

More snarky comments. Wonderful.

If you watched the game you may have noticed Arizona rushing 3 and dropping 8. That tends to help an opponent's running game, even if their OL is inept.

But big picture, if you are going to argue on behalf of our OL's competency there's no point going on, you are beyond reason. Good night.

Cal89;842214503 said:

---

T4K, thanks for the civility. I'm sure it was not exactly easy...

---

Thanks. I don't think Goff is great right now or anything. Just that he's got some talent and this isn't the same mindless stubbornness that we saw with JT. It may not be what I would choose and we may see reasons to go the other way, but there is enough to understand why Dykes would stick with him, too.

tequila4kapp;842214525 said:

---

Thanks. I don't think Goff is great right now or anything. Just that he's got some talent and this isn't the same mindless stubbornness that we saw with JT. It may not be what I would choose and we may see reasons to go the other way, but there is enough to understand why Dykes would stick with him, too.

---

I had provided my thoughts earlier, maybe this thread even, on the "why"... I do believe there is a method to the madness. It's not exactly one for which all like or would condone, but I get it in principle. Basically, its flat-out dedication to the system, a seemingly blind adherence to what is believed to be a very successful path for our offense. We are on this ride, and there's no getting off soon...

tequila4kapp;842214518 said:

---

More snarky comments. Wonderful.

---

Nope. Just FACTS.

tequila4kapp;842214518 said:

---

If you watched the game you may have noticed Arizona rushing 3 and dropping 8. That tends to help an opponent's running game, even if their OL is inept.

---

Great. More excuses.


Unreal.


So tell me... how on earth did Arizona's quarterback have a better game than Goff... while being sacked 3 or 4 times and his running game was worse than Goff's ?


This should be interesting...

MrBerkeley;842214478 said:

---

The QB in this system just follows the play that is called. He does NOT audible. He does not do anything but stick to the game plan. Goff had the already simple playbook simplified even more. Talk about spoon feeding. Who is his daddy? Has to be some big time alumnus with a big paycheck. Keep twisting the facts to make a story...

.

---

Simply wrong. Many plays in the Bear Raid are packaged plays where 2 plays are called and it's up to Goff to audible which one is run.

Muncie;842214536 said:

---

Nope. Just FACTS.






Great. More excuses.


Unreal.


So tell me... how on earth did Arizona's quarterback have a better game than Goff... while being sacked 3 or 4 times and his running game was worse than Goff's ?


This should be interesting...

---

Just to be clear, AZ's running game was better than ours. Not a whole lot, which was a big surprise, but better though by 57 yards...

The Wildcat QB did enough to help them win, which they needed because we did stifle their rushing. Despite being the worst passing offense in the conference, their QB did outperform Goff in several respects:

- better completion %
- no INT's
- better QBR

That said, our passing D was just what the doctor ordered for them...

Cal89;842214541 said:

---

Just to be clear, AZ's running game was better than ours. Not a whole lot, which was a big surprise, but better though by 57 yards...

The Wildcat QB did enough to help them win, which they needed because we did stifle their rushing. Despite being the worst passing offense in the conference, their QB did outperform Goff in several respects:

- better completion %
- no INT's
- better QBR

That said, our passing D was just what the doctor ordered for them...

---

Exactly.

If Goff had the Arizona run game and O-line and faced the Cal D... he might have done better.

JSML;842214545 said:

---

Exactly.

If Goff had the Arizona run game and O-line and faced the Cal D... he might have done better.

---

Huh ?


Clearly you have a reading comprehension problem.

Muncie;842214549 said:

---

Huh ?


Clearly you have a reading comprehension problem.

---

Not at all. You?

Cal89;842214541 said:

---

Just to be clear, AZ's running game was better than ours. Not a whole lot, which was a big surprise, but better though by 57 yards...

---

It was far from better... in fact, it was a lot worse.


Cal averaged... 5.0 yards a carry.

Arizona averaged 3.7 yards a carry.


Just because they had more attempts... does not make it better.

JSML;842214550 said:

---

Not at all. You?

---

Here's your quote...

JSML;842214545 said:

---

Exactly.

If Goff had the Arizona run game and O-line and faced the Cal D... he might have done better.

---

Cal averaged 5.0 yards a carry.

Arizona averaged 3.7 yards a carry.



Arizona's quarterback was SACKED 3 or 4 TIMES !

Goff was not SACKED at all !



How in the hell is Arizona's line better than Cal's on that day ???

Muncie;842214551 said:

---

It was far from better... in fact, it was a lot worse.


Cal averaged... 5.0 yards a carry.

Arizona averaged 3.7 yards a carry.


Just because they had more attempts... does not make it better.

---

Good point there. My apologies. Like more passing attempts will make for more yards, which is no big deal...

Muncie;842214553 said:

---

Here's your quote...






Cal averaged 5.0 yards a carry.

Arizona averaged 3.7 yards a carry.



Arizona's quarterback was SACKED 3 or 4 TIMES !

Goff was not SACKED at all !



How in the hell is Arizona's line better than Cal's on that day ???

---

That was not my point. Read better. I will re phrase it for you. The threat of an effective run game makes the passing game easier. The D will tend to stack the box giving less attention to the pass. Also the Cal D is not exactly stout against the pass. Given all that, Goff might have had better stats and QBR rating if he was operating with Arizona's offense against the Cal defense.

JSML;842214563 said:

---

That was not my point. Read better. I will re phrase it for you. The threat of an effective run game makes the passing game easier. The D will tend to stack the box giving less attention to the pass. Also the Cal D is not exactly stout against the pass. Given all that, Goff might have had better stats and QBR rating if he was operating with Arizona's offense against the Cal defense.

---

The excuses never end... with the Goff lovers.


Just bizarre.

Muncie;842214567 said:

---

The excuses never end... with the Goff lovers.


Just bizarre.

---

Another straw man retort?

by goff and the ints ... got to tighten it up

Cal89;842214490 said:

---

MrBerkeley is back with the passion! I used the description "kid gloves" a week or so back... To a degree, I get, but the coddling has been of puke-able variety
:bigpuke:

Many loyal Old Blues were lost by SD's recent comments. We all saw vs OSU Kline get called in after another bed crapping performance. He again performs better and ends the next week of practice, by all accounts, very strong. Not only does he not get the starting nod, SD lays down the law, essentially saying 'leave me the F alone, Goff starts here on out.' Heels dug in baby...

---

Not quite. Kline threw more picks in practice that week, again. Including on back to back plays. He did have a relatively good week, but so did Goff. With fewer picks.

Muncie;842214505 said:

---

That's odd.

That horrible OL helped the team rush for an average of 5.0 yards per carry last game... and 4.5 yards per carry the week before.

One of the BEST rushing teams in the country(Arizona) only averaged 3.7 yards a carry against us. They most have a "really" bad OL.


Something else that's odd... with that "horrible" OL of Arizona's... their QB somehow out performed our QB and WON the game.


It must be some kind of "miracle" or something... because he was also sacked 3 or 4 times in the game and Goff wasn't sacked at all.



Yeah, the OL is certainly the problem... not Goff.

---

As much as you all hate Muncie, I have similar thoughts. 0 sacks on Goff and I thought the OL played decently (enough to win) against Arizona.

ecb;842214577 said:

---

Not quite. Kline threw more picks in practice that week, again. Including on back to back plays. He did have a relatively good week, but so did Goff. With fewer picks.

---

Not quite? I stated that Kline ended the week of practice very strong. We all know about the back-to-back picks on the first day of practice. There is absolutely nothing inaccurate about that statement - that he ended the week of practice strong.

The fact that some wish to attempt to poke a hole in a factual statement to defend their stance is sad. And speaking of which (sadness)...

It was late night, and got stuck at the bottom of the previous page, so maybe not seen, but what's the deal with Jnlj19? That poster is someone from Goff's family, posting as he has...

http://bearinsider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=842214510&postcount=120

That's just wrong.