oskihasahearton;842225007 said:

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There is a leadership issue.

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This is so true. Our upperclassmen are few and far between and we don't seem to have that rare underclassmen who is a natural leader. At least not yet.

Goff beats Kline in most measurables, although leadership is not one of them. Hopefully, this comes with experience.

BearsWiin;842225391 said:

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Putting Kline in for two series may have had nothing to do with seeing whether Kline could do things better, or give the Bears a spark. It may have been an effort on Dykes' part to get Goff to settle down and watch the game from the sidelines so he could go in again and have a better idea of what to do. I recall a few years ago some opposing coach (I want to say Chip Kelly, but it might have been Bellotti) pulled his QB for a series or two in the third quarter of a game, and when asked about it afterwards, that was the answer he gave. It wasn't about the backup QB at all - the coach had already committed to the starter (like it seems Dykes has with Goff) - it was to settle the starting QB and have him see the game from a different perspective for a short time before putting him back in again.

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I think this is exactly correct.

BerlinerBaer;842225427 said:

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This is so true. Our upperclassmen are few and far between and we don't seem to have that rare underclassmen who is a natural leader. At least not yet.

Goff beats Kline in most measurables, although leadership is not one of them. Hopefully, this comes with experience.



I think this is exactly correct.

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Good post.

NYCGOBEARS;842225412 said:

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Doesn't Oregon run a "gimmicky scheme"?

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So give Franklin a few more years and we'll have the same high octane offense as Oregon?? Admire your confidence.

i would have liked to see a little more kline. when goff went back in, i paid my check and left the bar i was at. we were going to lose anyway at that point, but id have stuck around to the end of the game if kline finished it out just to see how hed do.

clipman;842225432 said:

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So give Franklin a few more years and we'll have the same high octane offense as Oregon?? Admire your confidence.

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He did last year. Anyway, I have no such confidence but your dismissal of his scheme is not rooted in fact.

freshfunk;842225422 said:

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If that's the case, then leave Kline in!

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Fresh, I think the reason is that these decisions are Goff-centric. In the Oregon games, it wasn't 'let's give Kline some quality PT, and see what he can do'. The thinking was, 'Get Goff the F out of there before his psyche is so dramatized he becomes damaged goods.'

In this game, the decision to bring-in Kline might have been Goff-driven too. Goff coming back in might have been in the cards when he was pulled...

Once back-in, I think his first 4 passes were incompletes. So, if the intent was to somehow improve his play, it didn't exactly work.

Well, as far as the TFS goes, it looks like it won't get the freshman passing yards record. Heck, even Cal's single season record is not certain now. He would need about 185 yards next week. Most certainly doable, but Goff only had 173 today...

Hmmm... Maybe that's why he came back into the game, lol.

NYCGOBEARS;842225434 said:

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He did last year. Anyway, I have no such confidence but your dismissal of his scheme is not rooted in fact.

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He did last year in a pansy conference.

Oregon has a running game that is effective.
Oregon doesn't rely on 5 yard screen plays for 50% of their passes.
Their QB is mobile which adds an huge element to their O.
Oregon runs a true fast paced offense.

Cal??? not a lot of similarities.

i agree that its not necessarily the scheme. Baylor runs a similar scheme and puts up monster numbers and is 9-0. usc hardly changed scheme from kiffin to orgeron yet they go from one of the worst teams to one of the best. its leadership i feel. the lockerroom fight with hale represents to me a failure of leadership. theres problems on this team that goes deeper than what route we run or what play is called

blungld;842225234 said:

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Goff did outplay Klineand that wasn't saying much. And I know this because Iwait for it.watched the game. Visions fine.

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Based on just two series? Come on now..

cal2000;842225459 said:

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Based on just two series? Come on now..

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I agree. It's not definitive either way. Goff got most of the snaps and played poorly. Kline got a limited number of snaps and played poorly. I'm not sure how anyone can make an argument for one or the other, based on today's game. It was just another flat out fail across the board.

clipman;842225445 said:

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He did last year in a pansy conference.

No guarrantee Dykes can turn us around, but you cannot dismiss the performance of his LA Tech teams just becuase of the conference they played. His teams of low talent were up against teams of similarly low talent. Apples to apples.

Oregon has a running game that is effective.

Dykes had an effective running game at LA Tech.

Oregon doesn't rely on 5 yard screen plays for 50% of their passes.

Wrong. Orgeon relies heavily on screen passes. They work if excecuted properly.

Their QB is mobile which adds an huge element to their O.

Funny that Rubenzer is also a mobile QB and is Dykes/Franklin's first QB recruit to Cal. That's not a coincidence.

Oregon runs a true fast paced offense.

I'd like to hear your definition of a "true fast paced offense". I think you are confusing "true" with "good". It's an easy mistake to make.

Cal??? not a lot of similarities.

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My confidence in this coaching staff is at an all-time low, and yet it's so easy to defend them against such drivel.

KoreAmBear;842225462 said:

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I agree. It's not definitive either way. Goff got most of the snaps and played poorly. Kline got a limited number of snaps and played poorly. I'm not sure how anyone can make an argument for one or the other, based on today's game. It was just another flat out fail across the board.

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Agree especially since Kline did not get the reps in practice.

Cal89;842225441 said:

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Fresh, I think the reason is that these decisions are Goff-centric. In the Oregon games, it wasn't 'let's give Kline some quality PT, and see what he can do'. The thinking was, 'Get Goff the F out of there before his psyche is so dramatized he becomes damaged goods.'

In this game, the decision to bring-in Kline might have been Goff-driven too. Goff coming back in might have been in the cards when he was pulled...

Once back-in, I think his first 4 passes were incompletes. So, if the intent was to somehow improve his play, it didn't exactly work.

Well, as far as the TFS goes, it looks like it won't get the freshman passing yards record. Heck, even Cal's single season record is not certain now. He would need about 185 yards next week. Most certainly doable, but Goff only had 173 today...

Hmmm... Maybe that's why he came back into the game, lol.

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Dykes said he put in Kline to give us a spark. I guess his spark really means instant spark, or else Kline gets pulled.



around 3:00 mark, after a bunch of blah blah crap we've heard before after every game.

Also, he actually said we ran a bunch today, and they were "stacking the box with 6" in the first half. How is 6 even stacking the box??? Isn't a 3-4 or 4-3 standard with maybe 1 LB on the TE maybe?

KoreAmBear;842225462 said:

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I agree. It's not definitive either way. Goff got most of the snaps and played poorly. Kline got a limited number of snaps and played poorly. I'm not sure how anyone can make an argument for one or the other, based on today's game. It was just another flat out fail across the board.

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I was away from the screen when Kline came in. Be damned if I noticed a difference except the QB got happy feet. Not surprised when I heard it was Kline, not Goff. Three and outs kinda looked the same.
But, it gave the Kline-ophiles a chance to kiss their favorite photos and dream about meeting at the Albany Bowl.

Hey guys. Zach's dad here. I haven't spoken to Zach about last night so this is just me talking. I think comparing Jared and Zach last night is off base. Apples and oranges last night. I think they have chosen Jared as they have been completely honest about, and this was the staff using a "middle reliever" to calm Jared down, let him see some things from sidelines, etc. I think a two series in and out had to be a plan. For what it's worth, I think Zach just went in trying to make a big play. That's what it looked like to me and I've seen him play for 12 years. It's impossible for him to "be on same page" with receivers with no practice time with them. So as you can see, his completions come from short screens, which are hard to screw up, and from plays where he gets outside the pocket and he and receiver are improvising, albeit somewhat practiced improvisation. All the slants and comebacks etc require some timing that comes from several weeks of practice and a couple games. So I think Zach did what he could. Tried to hit a home run. And hence played a little fast and aggressive. So actually I think the fumble when he hit the ground probably scared the staff that he was being too fast and aggressive. Or maybe two series was the plan no matter. Doesn't matter as I think it was the plan regardless if it was two series or three or four. That's not to say if he was lights out he wouldn't have stayed in. But that's wasn't the plan I think. Jared had a tough game I admit. But don't worry, as I think he will be just fine. A qb needs run support and some pass protection. A couple of this sacks were so fast he had no chance. And that can make a qb a little anxious in a way that carries to all throws. And he was pressing a bit. He is a 19 kid feeling the pressure to prove he should be the chosen one. Let's cut him a break too. If indeed he is the long term solution the staff has chosen, then give him the offseason and next season before conclusions are drawn.

If retained (?) the clueless equipment manager should be publicly humiliated, painted yellow and forced to go shirtless and shoeless at the 2014 WSu game in Pullman.

YROYOdad;842225550 said:

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Hey guys. Zach's dad here. I haven't spoken to Zach about last night so this is just me talking. I think comparing Jared and Zach last night is off base. Apples and oranges last night. I think they have chosen Jared as they have been completely honest about, and this was the staff using a "middle reliever" to calm Jared down, let him see some things from sidelines, etc. I think a two series in and out had to be a plan. For what it's worth, I think Zach just went in trying to make a big play. That's what it looked like to me and I've seen him play for 12 years. It's impossible for him to "be on same page" with receivers with no practice time with them. So as you can see, his completions come from short screens, which are hard to screw up, and from plays where he gets outside the pocket and he and receiver are improvising, albeit somewhat practiced improvisation. All the slants and comebacks etc require some timing that comes from several weeks of practice and a couple games. So I think Zach did what he could. Tried to hit a home run. And hence played a little fast and aggressive. So actually I think the fumble when he hit the ground probably scared the staff that he was being too fast and aggressive. Or maybe two series was the plan no matter. Doesn't matter as I think it was the plan regardless if it was two series or three or four. That's not to say if he was lights out he wouldn't have stayed in. But that's wasn't the plan I think. Jared had a tough game I admit. But don't worry, as I think he will be just fine. A qb needs run support and some pass protection. A couple of this sacks were so fast he had no chance. And that can make a qb a little anxious in a way that carries to all throws. And he was pressing a bit. He is a 19 kid feeling the pressure to prove he should be the chosen one. Let's cut him a break too. If indeed he is the long term solution the staff has chosen, then give him the offseason and next season before conclusions are drawn.

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Mr. Kline,

Enjoy reading your posts and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I sincerely hope you and Zach stick around longer than this coaching staff.

YROYOdad;842225550 said:

---

Hey guys. Zach's dad here. I haven't spoken to Zach about last night so this is just me talking. I think comparing Jared and Zach last night is off base. Apples and oranges last night. I think they have chosen Jared as they have been completely honest about, and this was the staff using a "middle reliever" to calm Jared down, let him see some things from sidelines, etc. I think a two series in and out had to be a plan. For what it's worth, I think Zach just went in trying to make a big play. That's what it looked like to me and I've seen him play for 12 years. It's impossible for him to "be on same page" with receivers with no practice time with them. So as you can see, his completions come from short screens, which are hard to screw up, and from plays where he gets outside the pocket and he and receiver are improvising, albeit somewhat practiced improvisation. All the slants and comebacks etc require some timing that comes from several weeks of practice and a couple games. So I think Zach did what he could. Tried to hit a home run. And hence played a little fast and aggressive. So actually I think the fumble when he hit the ground probably scared the staff that he was being too fast and aggressive. Or maybe two series was the plan no matter. Doesn't matter as I think it was the plan regardless if it was two series or three or four. That's not to say if he was lights out he wouldn't have stayed in. But that's wasn't the plan I think. Jared had a tough game I admit. But don't worry, as I think he will be just fine. A qb needs run support and some pass protection. A couple of this sacks were so fast he had no chance. And that can make a qb a little anxious in a way that carries to all throws. And he was pressing a bit. He is a 19 kid feeling the pressure to prove he should be the chosen one. Let's cut him a break too. If indeed he is the long term solution the staff has chosen, then give him the offseason and next season before conclusions are drawn.

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Thanks for your take although I feel goff has regressed to the point where we need to look at other options as it's not definitive that progress has even taken place from game 1

He might have been more ready as he has experience in TFS but mastering the system seem to be unattainable in the near future.

YROYOdad;842225550 said:

---

Hey guys. Zach's dad here. I haven't spoken to Zach about last night so this is just me talking. I think comparing Jared and Zach last night is off base. Apples and oranges last night. I think they have chosen Jared as they have been completely honest about, and this was the staff using a "middle reliever" to calm Jared down, let him see some things from sidelines, etc. I think a two series in and out had to be a plan. For what it's worth, I think Zach just went in trying to make a big play. That's what it looked like to me and I've seen him play for 12 years. It's impossible for him to "be on same page" with receivers with no practice time with them. So as you can see, his completions come from short screens, which are hard to screw up, and from plays where he gets outside the pocket and he and receiver are improvising, albeit somewhat practiced improvisation. All the slants and comebacks etc require some timing that comes from several weeks of practice and a couple games. So I think Zach did what he could. Tried to hit a home run. And hence played a little fast and aggressive. So actually I think the fumble when he hit the ground probably scared the staff that he was being too fast and aggressive. Or maybe two series was the plan no matter. Doesn't matter as I think it was the plan regardless if it was two series or three or four. That's not to say if he was lights out he wouldn't have stayed in. But that's wasn't the plan I think. Jared had a tough game I admit. But don't worry, as I think he will be just fine. A qb needs run support and some pass protection. A couple of this sacks were so fast he had no chance. And that can make a qb a little anxious in a way that carries to all throws. And he was pressing a bit. He is a 19 kid feeling the pressure to prove he should be the chosen one. Let's cut him a break too. If indeed he is the long term solution the staff has chosen, then give him the offseason and next season before conclusions are drawn.

---

Thank You, Mr. Kline. You've raised a great young man.

I tried to stay away from Goff vs. Kline threads... but... well here I go...

(with no evidence)
Claim #1 of Goff Bot: Goff > Kline

(when Goff sucks and #1 becomes suspect enough to even Goff bots to be appropriately challenged)
Claim #2 of Goff Bot: Goff and Kline both suck but Goff is > Kline (and then some blurb about how they support both just to sound remotely objective)

(when people want to give Kline a chance)
Claim #3 of Goff Bot: I support both players but after watching Kline play in 2 series I can see Goff is > Kline.

When Goff sucked in past games or earlier in the season, you see these same Goff bots arguing that experience and playing time is necessary to mature and get better and that you cannot evaluate Goff based on 1 bad game. Same Goff bots then argue that 2 series is enough to evaluate Kline. WHY is an ENTIRE SEASON needed to evaluate Goff???? And only 2 series enough to evaluate Kline? Why even argue that point?

I don't think you are stupid. You probably went to CAL since we're both posting here... why do you keep shoveling garbage untruths into our ears and eyes? We are going to fail as a society if our most intelligent and capable citizens are baseline dishonest.

Goff bots, there is a point at which you can no longer justify your positions. That day has long come and gone. I'd tell you to be quiet but this is a forum for all kinds of discussion, so all I can say is I will call out any bias every time you post. Seriously, go take a long look in the mirror and reflect if you aren't wronging people on jury duty. Its a shame I am not surprised about the biased logic, but a CAL graduate is also more capable than the average citizen and that makes you more dangerous to society when you are manipulative, hm?

PLEASE, stick to singing your love for Goff. PLEASE stay away from commenting about Kline. Dykes has made it easy for you by removing any need for you to defend Goff. He is going to forced on us as the starting QB. Why walk around defending him and throwing the offensive line, running backs, and everyone else under the bus? There is no need. Relax. Season is over. Goff will be remembered as our most terrible QB in our worst season in infamy. That will be your fault. At least if there had been some competition, that blame would be spread around. Sucks all around doesn't it. The way mindless ambition destroys everything around it and ends in failure...

NYCGOBEARS;842225425 said:

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Lol. You are consistent my friend!

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Well, come on. You can't have it both ways. Either the QB matters or it doesn't. If it does, then it begs the question if Kline was pulled because he didn't accomplish enough on the 7 plays he was in. If it doesn't matter, then why not let him play more or even put him in in the first place.

These coaches are just throwing sh*t up in the wall, desperately, and just seeing what sticks. These amateurs needs to be sent back to the WAC. Trick plays and gimmicks can only get you so far when you lack fundamentals.

Mr. Kine, thanks for the insight and thoughtful post. Much appreciated.

Those first few games, it was clear that Goff had more confidence. He was stepping forward with his passes and just threw in a way that exuded confidence. Also, he was under great pressure in those games, more so than in later games. And, the running game then was less productive too. He had not been broken yet...

It seems that D's were quick to adjust and he was rattled, and never really the same since. This is not to say that his production was markedly better in games 1 and 3 (#2 was PSU). Completion % was a little below 60% and his QBR, pretty much what we've seen. He just looked better out there leading, and I think our minds have fond memories still of those yards and the ranked opponents - both of which have quite poor pass defenses actually.

Our run game continues a positive trend, again. I think we got another 180+ yards yesterday. Nothing to write home about, but certainly acceptable figures to most. I think both Bigs and Khalfani averaged over 7 yards. The reasons for the passing game not improving and getting worse at times, most recently yards / attempt, cannot be explained away now by an inept run game. The pass pro has even been better as of late, compared to earlier games...

MrBerkeley;842225598 said:

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I tried to stay away from Goff vs. Kline threads... but... well here I go...

(with no evidence)
Claim #1 of Goff Bot: Goff > Kline

(when Goff sucks and #1 becomes suspect enough to even Goff bots to be appropriately challenged)
Claim #2 of Goff Bot: Goff and Kline both suck but Goff is > Kline (and then some blurb about how they support both just to sound remotely objective)

(when people want to give Kline a chance)
Claim #3 of Goff Bot: I support both players but after watching Kline play in 2 series I can see Goff is > Kline.

When Goff sucked in past games or earlier in the season, you see these same Goff bots arguing that experience and playing time is necessary to mature and get better and that you cannot evaluate Goff based on 1 bad game. Same Goff bots then argue that 2 series is enough to evaluate Kline. WHY is an ENTIRE SEASON needed to evaluate Goff???? And only 2 series enough to evaluate Kline? Why even argue that point?

I don't think you are stupid. You probably went to CAL since we're both posting here... why do you keep shoveling garbage untruths into our ears and eyes? We are going to fail as a society if our most intelligent and capable citizens are baseline dishonest.

Goff bots, there is a point at which you can no longer justify your positions. That day has long come and gone. I'd tell you to be quiet but this is a forum for all kinds of discussion, so all I can say is I will call out any bias every time you post. Seriously, go take a long look in the mirror and reflect if you aren't wronging people on jury duty. Its a shame I am not surprised about the biased logic, but a CAL graduate is also more capable than the average citizen and that makes you more dangerous to society when you are manipulative, hm?

PLEASE, stick to singing your love for Goff. PLEASE stay away from commenting about Kline. Dykes has made it easy for you by removing any need for you to defend Goff. He is going to forced on us as the starting QB. Why walk around defending him and throwing the offensive line, running backs, and everyone else under the bus? There is no need. Relax. Season is over. Goff will be remembered as our most terrible QB in our worst season in infamy. That will be your fault. At least if there had been some competition, that blame would be spread around. Sucks all around doesn't it. The way mindless ambition destroys everything around it and ends in failure...

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This is right on. Although anyone really arguing that Goff is definitively better than Kline, at this point, is either trolling or related to him.

freshfunk;842225612 said:

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This is right on. Although anyone really arguing that Goff is definitively better than Kline, at this point, is either trolling or related to him.

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Anyone arguing that Kline is better or would provide a spark is avoiding the real issues...

This is like arguing about what private would have been better on point for Custer.


None. Custer is the problem.

Phantomfan;842225718 said:

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Anyone arguing that Kline is better or would provide a spark is avoiding the real issues...

This is like arguing about what private would have been better on point for Custer.


None. Custer is the problem.

---

Somewhere in this post is a wonderful photoshop opportunity.

I was happy he gave Kline a shot. Kline didn't look that good, but I would have let him finish. I think he went back to Goff because Goff has a couple records he can break. Those records will help us recruit and help Sonny find another job if necessary.

MrBerkeley;842225598 said:

---

I tried to stay away from Goff vs. Kline threads... but... well here I go...

(with no evidence)
Claim #1 of Goff Bot: Goff > Kline

(when Goff sucks and #1 becomes suspect enough to even Goff bots to be appropriately challenged)
Claim #2 of Goff Bot: Goff and Kline both suck but Goff is > Kline (and then some blurb about how they support both just to sound remotely objective)

(when people want to give Kline a chance)
Claim #3 of Goff Bot: I support both players but after watching Kline play in 2 series I can see Goff is > Kline.

When Goff sucked in past games or earlier in the season, you see these same Goff bots arguing that experience and playing time is necessary to mature and get better and that you cannot evaluate Goff based on 1 bad game. Same Goff bots then argue that 2 series is enough to evaluate Kline. WHY is an ENTIRE SEASON needed to evaluate Goff???? And only 2 series enough to evaluate Kline? Why even argue that point?

I don't think you are stupid. You probably went to CAL since we're both posting here... why do you keep shoveling garbage untruths into our ears and eyes? We are going to fail as a society if our most intelligent and capable citizens are baseline dishonest.

Goff bots, there is a point at which you can no longer justify your positions. That day has long come and gone. I'd tell you to be quiet but this is a forum for all kinds of discussion, so all I can say is I will call out any bias every time you post. Seriously, go take a long look in the mirror and reflect if you aren't wronging people on jury duty. Its a shame I am not surprised about the biased logic, but a CAL graduate is also more capable than the average citizen and that makes you more dangerous to society when you are manipulative, hm?

PLEASE, stick to singing your love for Goff. PLEASE stay away from commenting about Kline. Dykes has made it easy for you by removing any need for you to defend Goff. He is going to forced on us as the starting QB. Why walk around defending him and throwing the offensive line, running backs, and everyone else under the bus? There is no need. Relax. Season is over. Goff will be remembered as our most terrible QB in our worst season in infamy. That will be your fault. At least if there had been some competition, that blame would be spread around. Sucks all around doesn't it. The way mindless ambition destroys everything around it and ends in failure...

---

Prediction fail.

fresh funk=one of the true idiots of cal football fandom

too bad he's gone from here now forever

original leper island colonists#

Lol shock you are a cold piece of work

Shocky1;842625435 said:

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fresh funk=one of the true idiots of cal football fandom ...

---

"funky fans" still exist, and maybe the not-so-fresh one is back in a new personna ...
"funky fans" = posters who don't get Cal football in a UC Berkeley setting ...

We're back to where we should be with steady improvement, doing it the right way and getting real student-athletes again.

"4 stars" commit and then discover that UC Berkeley academics is for real and the coaches are serious. HS GPAs aside, some commits get hit with reality and go bye-bye with their NFL dreams.

Of those who do get it, fully qualified academically, understanding a UC Berkeley degree, there's a host of so-called "3 star" athletes, many with All-State, All-Conference credentials, and they're coming from near and far in the USA.

pappysghost;842225736 said:

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I was happy he gave Kline a shot. Kline didn't look that good, but I would have let him finish. I think he went back to Goff because Goff has a couple records he can break. Those records will help us recruit and help Sonny find another job if necessary.

---

Little did we know at the time how many records those would be.

freshfunk;842225612 said:

---

This is right on. Although anyone really arguing that Goff is definitively better than Kline, at this point, is either trolling or related to him.

---

Sell your Facebook stock

If Kline is back at Berkeley, he could always try to walk on and take a shot, although competing at best for the scout squad QB spot.
I think Dykes would give him a shot ... good for Kline if he get's his diploma from UC Berkeley.

My guess is that the poster known as Muncie expired from self immolation.

SonOfCalVa;842625459 said:

---

"funky fans" still exist, and maybe the not-so-fresh one is back in a new personna ...
"funky fans" = posters who don't get Cal football in a UC Berkeley setting ...

We're back to where we should be with steady improvement, doing it the right way and getting real student-athletes again.

"4 stars" commit and then discover that UC Berkeley academics is for real and the coaches are serious. HS GPAs aside, some commits get hit with reality and go bye-bye with their NFL dreams.

Of those who do get it, fully qualified academically, understanding a UC Berkeley degree, there's a host of so-called "3 star" athletes, many with All-State, All-Conference credentials, and they're coming from near and far in the USA.

---

"UC Berkeley setting" is rhetoric for rationalization and justification. We accept athletes who would not have a chance to getting into Cal without their athletic skill, men and women by the way. Cal recruits 17 and 18 year olds and spend lavishly on the recruiting trips. Cal spends a huge amount of money to travel the country, just like an SEC team; if the stands were more full, Cal would have a private plane. There are 4 stars who "get it"...Cal has to get them.