Goodell suggests ditching the PAT kick

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Roger Goodell doesn't want to stand pat with the PAT. He's suggesting potential changes in the extra point that, well, might have some legs.

The NFL commissioner says the extra point kick after touchdowns, which had a success rate of nearly 100 percent in 2013, is too automatic.

And with few teams attempting 2-point conversion plays until desperation hits, the old 1-pointer from about 20 yards is the way coaches go.

So Goodell wonders if the league can add excitement by making some major adjustments to the extra point, suggesting perhaps making a touchdown worth seven points, with teams having the option to run a play for another point.

But failing on that play would cost them a point.

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Think it will ever happen in the NFL or CFB?

I like it. Waste of time and effort. I wish field goals were gone too and anything else related to using a foot with a ball

tommie317;842267526 said:

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I like it. Waste of time and effort. I wish field goals were gone too and anything else related to using a foot with a ball

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No kickoffs?

Change OT rules to match college?

This is bizarre as proposed. Why give 7 then either add or take away 1? Why not just give 6 and add 2 if successful like we already do?

Better yet, if it's the success rate he doesn't like, why not go back to basics rather than prohibiting kicks. In rugby the kick is made from a point on the field laterally equal to where the try-scoring player touches it down. No touch down, no try, and thus no kick to attempt. Kicker can go as far back as he wants (I think) but can't adjust laterally. Provides for some difficult and amazing kicks. Certainly not routine, boring, or guaranteed.

NFL could adopt wholesale or alter to make kicks even harder. Readily imaginable scenarios include placing kick at point where player breaks the plane of the goal line and limiting how far back kickers can go. Both of these would make kicks significantly less enticing in many situations due to the possibility of extremely narrow angles. These rules would probably also have the benefit of encouraging international fans, who are already familiar with them.

Seems fine to me. Id be ok w the PAT being a 40-45 yarder... you'd get a llot better ideas which kickers were the best. Conversely id also be ok w/ goodellls suggestion (no PAT for 7 pointd, lose a point if you miss the 8pt try).

I wouldn't wanna do a flat 7. I generally like the non-standard plays and would wana keep em if possible

More commercial air time.

beelzebear;842267522 said:

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Goodell suggests ditching the PAT kick


Think it will ever happen in the NFL or CFB?

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Roger Goodell needs to think more creatively than this article indicates. Or better yet, go to rugby for inspiration (h/t to OldBlue1999 for bringing it up).

In rugby, you haven't scored a try until the ball is touched down in the try zone. Where the ball is touched down determines the lateral position of the ball relative to the sidelines (middle of the field, closer to one sideline or the other). The kicker for the scoring team has the option of choosing distance to improve the angle in the case of a ball placed close to one sideline or the other. The kick can be as far back as the 22 meter line (roughly equivalent to the 24 yard line). I'd simplify the range of a kick to be allowed between the 10 and the 25 yard line, dependent on the kicker's discretion.

Further, as in rugby, the only player on offense anywhere near the ball would be the kicker. The rest of the offense would set up for the ensuing kickoff or be on the sidelines. The defense would gather underneath the crossbar and could rush the ball when the kicker begins his approach to the ball.

Goodell should get rid of commercials after a kick off

bluehenbear;842267528 said:

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No kickoffs?

Change OT rules to match college?

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No kickoffs, field goals, extra points, punt = long throw, live ball

Ok maybe over dramatic but kickoffs have become silly. We can keep punts

tommie317;842267594 said:

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No kickoffs, field goals, extra points, punt = long throw, live ball

Ok maybe over dramatic but kickoffs have become silly. We can keep punts

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Teams still run back kickoffs and good KO returns can still make a difference. I don't think they've been completely obviated yet.

OldBlue1999;842267541 said:

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This is bizarre as proposed. Why give 7 then either add or take away 1? Why not just give 6 and add 2 if successful like we already do?

Better yet, if it's the success rate he doesn't like, why not go back to basics rather than prohibiting kicks. In rugby the kick is made from a point on the field laterally equal to where the try-scoring player touches it down. No touch down, no try, and thus no kick to attempt. Kicker can go as far back as he wants (I think) but can't adjust laterally. Provides for some difficult and amazing kicks. Certainly not routine, boring, or guaranteed.

NFL could adopt wholesale or alter to make kicks even harder. Readily imaginable scenarios include placing kick at point where player breaks the plane of the goal line and limiting how far back kickers can go. Both of these would make kicks significantly less enticing in many situations due to the possibility of extremely narrow angles. These rules would probably also have the benefit of encouraging international fans, who are already familiar with them.

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I think the idea is you can take 7 points without kicking...but if you CHOOSE you can try to get that extra 1 point (go get to 8), with the penalty for failure being you lose a point instead (so you get 6).

End result: A fancy way of saying extra kick is automatically given to you, unless you choose to forego it for a chance at 2.

~MrGPAC

It seems to me the issue is a 20 yard PAT kick is too easy, so make it more difficult. I like the 35-40 yard PAT kick, perhaps aligned like rugby or some variation. Or make it 7 pts for a TD and 1 pt for 35-40 yard PAT kick, and minus-1 if you miss. Just make the kick more difficult than a chip shot. Make it riskier.

I'd leave the 2-pt run/pass PAT where it is now, maybe move the line of scrimmage to the 5 yard line.

Maybe other changes to the kicking game, like a FG over 50 yards it's worth 4 pts. Sorta like the 3-pt shot in hoops.

More scoring options and ways to catch up would make the game more interesting, maybe more exciting.

MrGPAC;842267669 said:

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I think the idea is you can take 7 points without kicking...but if you CHOOSE you can try to get that extra 1 point...

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Oh, ok. I skimmed it too quickly; see that now. Thanks.

How stupid. It wouldn't change anything. Nobody would take the risk unless "the sheet" told them to, just like now. Except at least now once in a while something crazy happens. I like the rugby idea even more if the alternative is you can just take 7 any time you score.

Yup they must've done a study on how many more ad minutes they could sell per game while keeping the average game duration roughly the same as it is now if they eliminate the time taken up by PATs.

beelzebear;842267522 said:

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Goodell suggests ditching the PAT kick




Think it will ever happen in the NFL or CFB?

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Bad idea. Fewer jobs/opportunities for NFL OLs looking to work their way up and/or to qualify for basic pension (although they'd still be able to serve on the FG line). Fewer opportunities for college OLs to gain experience (with same caveat).

Rugby rules idea is a good one. Add that option: kick the traditional PAT for one, play from scrimmage for two, or kick on 90 degree line from touchdown point for two. For traditional PAT, loosen up the rules on what you can do to block it.

Something has to be done with the boring PAT. After a TD, I'm headed for the fridge or toilet. That and the stupid commercials right after the following kickoff. I have started to record most of the games and fast-forward through all the time-consuming garbage time that now extends the one hour of actual play to around 4 hours.

tenplay;842268264 said:

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Something has to be done with the boring PAT. After a TD, I'm headed for the fridge or toilet. That and the stupid commercials right after the following kickoff. I have started to record most of the games and fast-forward through all the time-consuming garbage time that now extends the one hour of actual play to around 4 hours.

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Thanks for pointing out what the real illness is: selling advertising space and other bull$#it extraneous to the game.

Within my lifetime, it used to be that a football broadcast fit neatly into a 3-hour window. Now it doesn't. The reason? Ads, mostly.

In the rare instances where a game is decided by a fluky missed PAT, the viewer feels cheated and the players in the trenches are cheated. Guys who leave every last ounce of strength on the field should never lose a game because some kicker had a fluke miss. The game would hardly change at all without PATs. Nobody would miss them.

OTOH, I don't agree with the guy who said eliminate field goals. These are much less of a given and it rewards the "real" football players for marching further down the field (i.e., the further you go the higher the chance the kicker makes it.) I don't think you could eliminate that without drastically changing the game.

FiatSlug;842268290 said:

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Thanks for pointing out what the real illness is: selling advertising space and other bull$#it extraneous to the game.

Within my lifetime, it used to be that a football broadcast fit neatly into a 3-hour window. Now it doesn't. The reason? Ads, mostly.

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An extra hour of bliss, ads or no. Beats an extra hour of chores or plumbing repairs any day.

tenplay;842268264 said:

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Something has to be done with the boring PAT.

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new mandatory PAT formation. before each game a player is selected as the team's designated tee via online fan vote.

tommie317;842267526 said:

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I like it. Waste of time and effort. I wish field goals were gone too and anything else related to using a foot with a ball

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I agree. Let soccer have football. The sport needs a new name.

beelzebear;842267673 said:

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It seems to me the issue is a 20 yard PAT kick is too easy, so make it more difficult. I like the 35-40 yard PAT kick, perhaps aligned like rugby or some variation. Or make it 7 pts for a TD and 1 pt for 35-40 yard PAT kick, and minus-1 if you miss. Just make the kick more difficult than a chip shot. Make it riskier.

I'd leave the 2-pt run/pass PAT where it is now, maybe move the line of scrimmage to the 5 yard line.

Maybe other changes to the kicking game, like a FG over 50 yards it's worth 4 pts. Sorta like the 3-pt shot in hoops.

More scoring options and ways to catch up would make the game more interesting, maybe more exciting.

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There will be highly paid long-snappers who can toss the ball backward, from the goal line to the 40-yard line.
No. I don't want teams be rewarded for failing to advance the ball beyond the 30-yard line.

NYT article pointed out that this rule change could reduce the NFL's overall FG success rate, since PAT's amount to free in-game practice. I'd be in favor of adding drama to FG attempts.

Since all TDs are now reviewed, the post-score rigamarole is even more bloated. Adding video review and subtracting the PAT are a wash, time-wise. I say go for it, it's about time. I always fast-forward thru PAT's anyway.

Caveat, what about the Chip Kelley/Lane Kiffen wierdo PAT formations and shifts? Will they be missed? Will the possibility of fake PAT's be missed? I bet the Eagles would vote 'no' on this rule change.

THat is the key.

The long field goal at the end of a half or game is also a ho-hum experience until Auburn runs it back for a TD to get into the National Championship game.

Extra Points are there so people can fake them and go for two. It is not like it is 100% - there is an average of one miss per week. In the comparatively tight NFL, that could mean a lot.

The bigger issue is, what happens down the line. Do Freshman football teams also give up the extra point (where it is much less than 99% - probably closer to 65 percent)? If you give it up, you give up kicking as a profession, really. What else are they going to do? What are the long snappers going to practice? In general, the whole kicking aspect of the game, which I appreciate, will get diminished, and the games will be less exciting.

Former Cal and current Redskins long snapper Nick Sundberg responds to the proposed rule change:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/01/22/redskins-nick-sundberg-goes-at-roger-goodell-on-extra-points/

I think the owners should kick the PATs. Make them earn their millions. It'll be fun to watch a chubby owner put on a helmet and run onto the field with the Superbowl on the line. The eyes of the nation would be glued to the screen hoping that s/he would somehow succeed or fall flat on his/her a**. :bravo

What about tightening up the field goal posts. That would reduce extra points as well as field goals.

The fact is that kickers now are pretty accurate from 40 years in. 90% or so. Not just extra points. In high school and College, keep the uprights the same, but in the pros narrow it by 2 - 3 feet on either side.

Oski87;842269508 said:

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What about tightening up the field goal posts. That would reduce extra points as well as field goals.

The fact is that kickers now are pretty accurate from 40 years in. 90% or so. Not just extra points. In high school and College, keep the uprights the same, but in the pros narrow it by 2 - 3 feet on either side.

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Hey how about we put the field goal on wheels and have it move left and right. That would be cool

Don't be surprised if, as part of its player safety efforts, the NFL does away with kickoffs in the near future. The NFL considers kickoffs the single most dangerous play in football.

The NFL could move the hash marks back to the college width. Then the PAT hike has to be from the hash mark which makes it harder due to the angle. Any Cal fan know that PATs are not automatic for Cal so I would not change the college rules.

Go Bears