okaydo;842295244 said:

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If anyone would trade for a cal player, Carroll would

high calibear;842294775 said:

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after the todd shell pick in 1984 (btw, his career was cut short by a neck injury):

in 1994 the niners were in need of a placekicker, and drafted doug brien in the 3rd round.

in 1998 they needed a center, and drafted jeremy newberry in the 2nd round.

in 2001 they needed a rush end, and drafted andre carter with the 7th overall pick.

i wonder if these former golden bears would agree that the niners have a pattern of passing up star Cal players at positions of need and taking lesser players at the same position from elsewhere?

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3 players drafted in the last 20 years, that really proves that there is no bias... Right. :facepalm

Cal88;842295388 said:

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3 players drafted in the last 20 years, that really proves that there is no bias... Right. :facepalm

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Lol please. With how competitive the NFL is no team is dumb enough to actively avoid a school just for shits sake. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, because this 49ers hate Cal crap is as dumb as it is beaten to death.

They're all waiting for the eagles to cut him bc they know they will and why give up a pick when you can get him for just the salary

Lmao and if the hawks get him itll be both marshawn and desean torching the niners yr after yr

Cal88;842295388 said:

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3 players drafted in the last 20 years, that really proves that there is no bias... Right. :facepalm

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.........

There are currently 7 rounds in a draft. That means that over the last 20 years, the 49ers (and every other team for that matter) have had approximately 140 picks.

There are currently 120 teams in the FBS, give or take. That means that if the 49ers gave absolutely equal weight and preference to every school, they should have drafted just over one player on average from each school.

But for the most part, schools in the BCS conferences are superior to the mid-majors, so let's even go ahead and pare down the number of schools "worthy" of consideration to just the BCS schools, which would have numbered around 60, give or take. That means that if the 49ers gave absolutely equal weight and preference to every BCS school, they should have drafted just over two players on average from each school.

Assuming high calibear is correct, the 49ers have drafted three players from Cal in the last 20 years, all within the first three rounds. So clearly, your assertion of bias by the 49ers against Cal is just not supported. And that's not even considering the facts given by CalBearRJ in his previous mini-expose. At this point, it's really hard to tell if the 49ers have caused you some deep trauma in the past that you can't let go of, or if you're simply always digging your heels in and arguing in an attempt to preserve some semblance of being right.

JeffBear07;842295556 said:

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.........

There are currently 7 rounds in a draft. That means that over the last 20 years, the 49ers (and every other team for that matter) have had approximately 140 picks.

There are currently 120 teams in the FBS, give or take. That means that if the 49ers gave absolutely equal weight and preference to every school, they should have drafted just over one player on average from each school.

But for the most part, schools in the BCS conferences are superior to the mid-majors, so let's even go ahead and pare down the number of schools "worthy" of consideration to just the BCS schools, which would have numbered around 60, give or take. That means that if the 49ers gave absolutely equal weight and preference to every BCS school, they should have drafted just over two players on average from each school.

Assuming high calibear is correct, the 49ers have drafted three players from Cal in the last 20 years, all within the first three rounds. So clearly, your assertion of bias by the 49ers against Cal is just not supported. And that's not even considering the facts given by CalBearRJ in his previous mini-expose. At this point, it's really hard to tell if the 49ers have caused you some deep trauma in the past that you can't let go of, or if you're simply always digging your heels in and arguing in an attempt to preserve some semblance of being right.

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There's a much simpler math formula.

76 Cal players drafted in last 20 years
Divided by 32 teams (not factoring expansions for now)
= 2.38 average drafted Cal players per team

49ers have 3 which would be above average

Myth Busted

concernedparent;842295408 said:

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Lol please. With how competitive the NFL is no team is dumb enough to actively avoid a school just for shits sake. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, because this 49ers hate Cal crap is as dumb as it is beaten to death.

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There are smarter NFL management teams, like the Seattle Seahawks', and dumber ones. That is why you have a marked stratification in the NFL, despite the fact that payrolls are not far apart, with the salary cap in place. There is a lot of managerial inertia and biases which keep certain franchises mired in mediocrity, or prevent them from reaching their potential.

The 9er organization doesn't hate Cal, but I would argue that the 49ers bias against Cal (which has manifested itself in their picking Alex over Rodgers, one of the dumbest recent decisions in pro football) has been a factor in their not managing to win a Superbowl in 20 years.

One of the biases is the tendency of NFL GMs to underestimate PX talent outside of USC (East Coast bias). As a matter of fact, going against this bias is one of the reasons Pete Carroll has built the best franchise in the NFL. Carroll in particular was very appreciative of Cal talent, having himself faced it first hand competing against JT. Some of the cornerstones of Carroll's squad are discarded PX talent like Lynch or Sherman.

Cal88;842295571 said:

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There are smarter NFL management teams, like the Seattle Seahawks', and dumber ones. That is why you have a marked stratification in the NFL, despite the fact that payrolls are not far apart, with the salary cap in place. There is a lot of managerial inertia and biases which keep certain franchises mired in mediocrity, or prevent them from reaching their potential.

The 9er organization doesn't hate Cal, but I would argue that the 49ers bias against Cal (which has manifested itself in their picking Alex over Rodgers, one of the dumbest recent decisions in pro football) has been a factor in their not managing to win a Superbowl in 20 years.

One of the biases is the tendency of NFL GMs to underestimate PX talent outside of USC (East Coast bias). As a matter of fact, going against this bias is one of the reasons Pete Carroll has built the best franchise in the NFL. Carroll in particular was very appreciative of Cal talent, having himself faced it first hand competing against JT. Some of the cornerstones of Carroll's squad are discarded PX talent like Lynch or Sherman.

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There were two main people who decided to pass on Rodgers; mike Nolan and mike McCarthy (ironically the packs hc). Both are no longer w the niners.

So your theory is that over the last twenty years; after multiple owners, gms and coaches there is some sort of institutional bias against cal?

Do you think the outgoing gm leaves a memo to his predecessor called the "anti cal agenda" with strict instructions to never ever draft a cal player?

Cal88;842295571 said:

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There are smarter NFL management teams, like the Seattle Seahawks', and dumber ones. That is why you have a marked stratification in the NFL, despite the fact that payrolls are not far apart, with the salary cap in place. There is a lot of managerial inertia and biases which keep certain franchises mired in mediocrity, or prevent them from reaching their potential.

The 9er organization doesn't hate Cal, but I would argue that the 49ers bias against Cal (which has manifested itself in their picking Alex over Rodgers, one of the dumbest recent decisions in pro football) has been a factor in their not managing to win a Superbowl in 20 years.

One of the biases is the tendency of NFL GMs to underestimate PX talent outside of USC (East Coast bias). As a matter of fact, going against this bias is one of the reasons Pete Carroll has built the best franchise in the NFL. Carroll in particular was very appreciative of Cal talent, having himself faced it first hand competing against JT. Some of the cornerstones of Carroll's squad are discarded PX talent like Lynch or Sherman.

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Didn't know Alex smith was selected due to east Utah coast bias. Have to remember that one.

I guess pete Carroll > 49er former pac10 coaches bill Walsh, Jim harbaugh, Steve marruicci, george seifert, Dennis Erickson, mike nolan combined in pac12 bias and talent evaluation. Fun fact, of all these coaches including pete, only pete didn't have pac10 coaching experience prior to joining the NFL. And for the hundredth time to the hawk bandwagon, pete Carroll is not the gm for the Seahawks.

You mention a bunch of things that sound reasonable but are no where close grounded by real facts.

In harbaughs three offseasons w niners, how many furd players have the niners drafted? Zero.

Clearly harbaugh and the rest of his staff have an anti furd bias.

tommie317;842295573 said:

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You mention a bunch of things that sound reasonable but are no where close grounded by real facts.

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Yes, and in case you all haven't noticed yet, this is Cal88's M.O.

It's pretty clear at this point that he is not identifying evidence and using it to draw a logical conclusion, because the real evidence is that there is no clear anti-Cal bias in the 49ers' draft history, and if anything there is a slight lean in favor of Cal players as compared to other college teams. One mistake in failing to draft Aaron Rodgers does not negate the full history.

What Cal88 is really doing is picking out the conclusion he wants to get, and then going back to shape and cherry-pick the evidence to support said conclusion. That's not an argument; that is sophistry. And we would all do well to ignore it, or if you must respond, simply to mock it. Actually engaging this ludicrous idea is pointless.

tommie317;842294725 said:

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Here's a training video of Desean teaching how to block.

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That was not exactly the most precise instructional video. Basically it said to block try hard and to beat a defender, beat him.

blungld;842295604 said:

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That was not exactly the most precise instructional video. Basically it said to block try hard and to beat a defender, beat him.

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Obviously these videos are targeted at beginners

And desean's blocking was so bad last year that the eagles led the league in rushing.

After that video, they will still be beginners. I think a writer and Teleprompter might have been in order.

tommie317;842295573 said:

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Didn't know Alex smith was selected due to east Utah coast bias. Have to remember that one.

I guess pete Carroll > 49er former pac10 coaches bill Walsh, Jim harbaugh, Steve marruicci, george seifert, Dennis Erickson, mike nolan combined in pac12 bias and talent evaluation. Fun fact, of all these coaches including pete, only pete didn't have pac10 coaching experience prior to joining the NFL. And for the hundredth time to the hawk bandwagon, pete Carroll is not the gm for the Seahawks.

You mention a bunch of things that sound reasonable but are no where close grounded by real facts.

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Pete Carroll was actively involved in his team's roster decision, much more so than the norm in the NFL. You'd be completely delusional to think he had no input in the recruitement of Lynch or Forsett.

Mooch is the one 49er coach who did not show an anti-Cal bias. In fact he was actually very biased towards Cal as a 9er coach. If the 49ers had maintained this kind of favorable attitude towards us it would have been far more natural to root for them as a Cal fan. Most of the Cal players that the 49ers did draft were taken during Mariucci's 6-year tenure. [U]Outside of Mooch's 6-year tenure, the 49ers have drafted only two Cal players since 1977[/U], way below what you would expect, given (a) the number of Cal players drafted in the league during that period and (b) geography.

It's kind of funny that the full forty-niner fraternity of this board is out on this... Thanks for playing guys.

sycasey;842295587 said:

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Yes, and in case you all haven't noticed yet, this is Cal88's M.O.

...And we would all do well to ignore it, or if you must respond, simply to mock it.

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This. Reminds of Amy's conjecture-filled schtick. His fascination with the 49ers is really strange.

Cal88;842295617 said:

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Pete Carroll was actively involved in his team's roster decision, much more so than the norm in the NFL. You'd be completely delusional to think he had no input in the recruitement of Lynch or Forsett.

Mooch is the one 49er coach who did not show an anti-Cal bias. In fact he was actually very biased towards Cal as a 9er coach. If the 49ers had maintained this kind of favorable attitude towards us it would have been far more natural to root for them as a Cal fan. Most of the Cal players that the 49ers did draft were taken during Mariucci's 6-year tenure. [U]Outside of Mooch's 6-year tenure, the 49ers have drafted only two Cal players since 1977[/U], way below what you would expect, given (a) the number of Cal players drafted in the league during that period and (b) geography.

It's kind of funny that the full forty-niner fraternity of this board is out on this... Thanks for playing guys.

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Forster was on the Seahawks before Carroll arrived.

okaydo;842295624 said:

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Forster was on the Seahawks before Carroll arrived.

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You're "completely delusional" :p

Cal88;842295617 said:

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Pete Carroll was actively involved in his team's roster decision, much more so than the norm in the NFL. You'd be completely delusional to think he had no input in the recruitement of Lynch or Forsett.

Mooch is the one 49er coach who did not show an anti-Cal bias. In fact he was actually very biased towards Cal as a 9er coach. If the 49ers had maintained this kind of favorable attitude towards us it would have been far more natural to root for them as a Cal fan. Most of the Cal players that the 49ers did draft were taken during Mariucci's 6-year tenure. [U]Outside of Mooch's 6-year tenure, the 49ers have drafted only two Cal players since 1977[/U], way below what you would expect, given (a) the number of Cal players drafted in the league during that period and (b) geography.

It's kind of funny that the full forty-niner fraternity of this board is out on this... Thanks for playing guys.

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Again, marruicci is a head coach and not a GM so he does not make draft decisions for the niners. Stop getting these positions confused.

If seahawks org/pete is so biased for pac10 then why didn't they keep forsett? Why did they draft Russell Wilson over nick Foles in 2012? How come they didn't draft Keenan Allen? How come they lowballed a qualifying offer for Doug Baldwin basically telling him to scram? How come they haven't quickly jumped on trading for desean Jackson? Because they are looking for the best decision at the time they make a decision not because they specifically favor pac12 players.

You state some "facts" to support your argument but avoid the avalanche of facts that counter your argument. Get it???

Cal88;842295617 said:

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Pete Carroll was actively involved in his team's roster decision, much more so than the norm in the NFL. You'd be completely delusional to think he had no input in the recruitement of Lynch or Forsett.

Mooch is the one 49er coach who did not show an anti-Cal bias. In fact he was actually very biased towards Cal as a 9er coach. If the 49ers had maintained this kind of favorable attitude towards us it would have been far more natural to root for them as a Cal fan. Most of the Cal players that the 49ers did draft were taken during Mariucci's 6-year tenure. [U]Outside of Mooch's 6-year tenure, the 49ers have drafted only two Cal players since 1977[/U], way below what you would expect, given (a) the number of Cal players drafted in the league during that period and (b) geography.

It's kind of funny that the full forty-niner fraternity of this board is out on this... Thanks for playing guys.

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Correlation DOES NOT prove causation as pretty much everyone knows. You are simply speculating on motive based on behavior...plus there really isn't any correlation either as others have pointed out....but thanks for playing.

tommie317;842295628 said:

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Get it???

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Doubtful. You're engaged in a discussion with a dude who's inferred that it's natural for Cal fans to root for the Seahawks, without recognizing that the Carroll/Schneider regime has run off more Cal players than they've brought in.

okaydo;842295624 said:

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Forster was on the Seahawks before Carroll arrived.

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If you're going to nit-pick, at least get his name right. Forsett.

rocketsBLUEglare;842295618 said:

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This. Reminds of Amy's conjecture-filled schtick. His fascination with the 49ers is really strange.

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There are many valid and rational reasons for a fan that puts Cal football ahead of everything to dislike the 49ers, something that really isn't all that hard to get if you're not looking at this with red and gold goggles.

tommie317;842295628 said:

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Again, marruicci is a head coach and not a GM so he does not make draft decisions for the niners. Stop getting these positions confused.

If seahawks org/pete is so biased for pac10 then why didn't they keep forsett? Why did they draft Russell Wilson over nick Foles in 2012? How come they didn't draft Keenan Allen? How come they lowballed a qualifying offer for Doug Baldwin basically telling him to scram? How come they haven't quickly jumped on trading for desean Jackson? Because they are looking for the best decision at the time they make a decision not because they specifically favor pac12 players.

You state some "facts" to support your argument but avoid the avalanche of facts that counter your argument. Get it???

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The Seahawks have a dozen PX players on their roster, more than just about any franchise in the NFL. Implying that they're not biased towards the PX because that's not nearly enough really is a very clumsy attempt at ad absurdum.

Cal88;842295639 said:

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The Seahawks have a dozen PX players on their roster, more than just about any franchise in the NFL. Implying that they're not biased towards the PX because that's not nearly enough really is a very clumsy attempt at ad absurdum.

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Seahawks minus Baldwin is 10 pac12 players
49ers have 9
Oh the humanity of pac10 bias

tommie317;842295628 said:

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Again, marruicci is a head coach and not a GM so he does not make draft decisions for the niners. Stop getting these positions confused.

If seahawks org/pete is so biased for pac10 then why didn't they keep forsett? Why did they draft Russell Wilson over nick Foles in 2012? How come they didn't draft Keenan Allen? How come they lowballed a qualifying offer for Doug Baldwin basically telling him to scram? How come they haven't quickly jumped on trading for desean Jackson? Because they are looking for the best decision at the time they make a decision not because they specifically favor pac12 players.

You state some "facts" to support your argument but avoid the avalanche of facts that counter your argument. Get it???

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Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick. Seattle thought Flynn was going to save their bacon.

Any way, I think DJax would be fantastic in Seattle.

Desean's done in Philly. Only question is where he winds up-hopefully the Niners and not the Jets

Will he sign for below his contract or will there be a bidding war

tommie317;842295655 said:

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Seahawks minus Baldwin is 10 pac12 players
49ers have 9
Oh the humanity of pac10 bias

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Care to state the number of PX players both teams had on their active roster through the 2013 season?

Cal88;842295664 said:

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Care to state the number of PX players both teams had on their active roster through the 2013 season?

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Hey how about you do the research this time instead of spouting garbage? You might learn something. And make sure to add nnamdi to 49er roster while you're at it.

tommie317;842295677 said:

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Hey how about you do the research this time instead of spouting garbage?

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More sophistry from Cal88 -- no surprises here.

JeffBear07;842295556 said:

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Assuming high calibear is correct, the 49ers have drafted three players from Cal in the last 20 years, all within the first three rounds. So clearly, your assertion of bias by the 49ers against Cal is just not supported. And that's not even considering the facts given by CalBearRJ in his previous mini-expose. At this point, it's really hard to tell if the 49ers have caused you some deep trauma in the past that you can't let go of, or if you're simply always digging your heels in and arguing in an attempt to preserve some semblance of being right.

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just to clarify, i mentioned those three players in the context of drafting players at positions of need. i figure a team drafting a position player in the first two rounds is filling a position of need, and drafting a kicker at all is also filling a need. the niners during that time period also drafted iheanyi uwaezoke, but he was a fourth or fifth round pick, so i didn't list him. so adding uwaezoke increases the niners bias in favor of cal. :p

high calibear;842294775 said:

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after the todd shell pick in 1984 (btw, his career was cut short by a neck injury):

in 1994 the niners were in need of a placekicker, and drafted doug brien in the 3rd round.

in 1998 they needed a center, and drafted jeremy newberry in the 2nd round.

in 2001 they needed a rush end, and drafted andre carter with the 7th overall pick.

i wonder if these former golden bears would agree that the niners have a pattern of passing up star Cal players at positions of need and taking lesser players at the same position from elsewhere?

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So what you are saying is that despite all the pro prospects that we produced in the last dozen years, the 49ers did not draft a single Cal player during the Tedford era?

All I am saying is that for the first part of its history, the 49ers ownership and management was biased toward Stanford. Their ownership, coaches and management had ties to the South Bay and Stanford. Moreover, the 49ers have drafted or attempted to acquire by trade, every single big name QB Stanford has ever produced.

However, later (under DeBartolo and Policy) if anything they were biased towards Notre Dame and USC (and BYU)--i.e. players that they were familiar with from attending Notre Dame games (which included Stanford).

The 90s (especially when Mooch was at the Niners and ex-Niner Holmoe was at Cal) saw the most Cal players go to the Niners (similar to Harbaugh and Shaw).

As stated above, during the last decade, almost zero Cal players ended up on the Niners despite their being the local team and Cal being in the top 5 of schools sending players to the NFL.

I am willing to accept that is not due to bias against, though clearly there is no bias towards (as there was in the case of Stanford historically and many NFL frnachises have towards local schools). Perhaps that will change with Harbaugh? Though he clearly still likes his former players.

BTW, the Niners share a medical staff with Stanford: LINhttp://www.ninersnation.com/2013/4/23/4255826/2013-nfl-draft-trent-baalke-jim-harbaugh-49ers-medical-staffK

For those who like to root for Cal players, the proof will be in the pudding. They will root for the Cal players on the Niners when the Niners have Cal players on the field. I do see that D.J. Campbell is on the Niners roster. So that is one Cal player at least.

Moreover, the Niner's new President is a Cal grad (though his MBA is from Stanford) replacing (yet another) Stanford grad, so maybe that will have an effect?

Bottom line is the Niners trading for Desean Jackson would be HUGE for those of us who [U]primarily[/U] root for Cal and prefer to pull for the local NFL team.